SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Then one day about six months later it just kind of ended. It was like something snapped and shut off in my head, like someone pulled a breaker switch. It was peculiar. But fter that day I looked at her and no longer felt anything.

I remember this point for me. It's the moment you truly stopped loving her. While you still loved her the pain was great. The moment you really truly stop loving your spouse that pain starts to dissipate really quickly. I love the resilience of human beings!

But she has this need for me to forgive her for what she did

She needs to explore where this comes from in IC. The need could come from guilt and shame. But it could also come from a place within her that what she did was a "mistake".

What is so special about forgiveness and why is it so important to cheaters?

On one level I expect that forgiveness is balm that they can apply to the guilt and shame they feel.

So how do I get her to accept that I am no longer in love with her and I have no desire to forgive

You can't. She has to reach that point herself. She wants you to go to counseling with her. Her path to acceptance lies in counseling for herself.

She needs to come to understand what result (for herself) she is looking for in forgiveness. What would forgiveness look like to her? How would she know she has been forgiven? What expectation does she have if she were to be forgiven? This is all IC stuff.

She would be best served by looking at and understanding what she has been *given* by you. You listed many meaningful things that she would not have if you D.

I operate under a "Next Best Theory". You want the marriage you had before her adultery. I expect she does as well. You can't have that back. You've found the "next best" thing. Your right, she has it within her to take that option away from you. She has to go through that same calculus to find her "next best".

Minn talked about forgiveness erasing a debt. Debt exists because of a transgression. The (remorseful) transgressor owes a debt to the person harmed. Atonement is the means by which the transgressor seeks to erase the debt. Atonement is made to make up for the harm that was done. But atonement does not mean that they are owed forgiveness.

And the fact that she may never receive forgiveness from you does not mean that she should abandon atoning for what she did. After all, she betrayed and cheated on her son, in the sense that she put his future at risk. Put at risk his full access to his Dad.

Well it's not exactly like a brother/sister relationship because you have sex with her. Do you think this is setting a healthy example of marriage for your son?

I think you need to stop using your stepson as your reason for staying. At 14 he would not be affected all that much or for all that long by a divorce. If the two of you are as close as you say, he would probably prefer to live with you anyway. A teenage boy needs his dad a lot more than his mom. The reality is that he has already passed through his formative years and would be just fine in a very short time after the split.

I read a lot of pain and anger in the words you write. You are trying very hard to move forward with your own healing and your refusal to invest emotionally in the marriage is understandable. You are tying to emotionally walk away so you can stop the pain and begin to heal. I do understand and I'm here to tell you that it's not likely to work. I know from my own experience. You can't heal by pretending you don't care and you can't begin to emotionally detach from her as long as you live with her. If you are serious about healing then you have to leave and end all unnecessary contact with her. Divorce or not - it's doesn't matter. No matter how afraid of such a massive change to your life you need to screw up your courage and leave.

Your passive-aggressive behavior can work in the short term because it's a escape valve for your anger and it helps her feel punished. Both of these things are going to quit working sooner rather than later. Your anger will gradually become contempt & worse and she'll tire of the punishment. You need to start living on your own again and see for yourself that most of the things you are afraid of are not nearly as bad as you fear. You can sleep alone, cook your own dinner, wash your clothes, and spend lots of time with your boy. You'll see how quickly he adjusts to the new reality. It takes most guys maybe 4 weeks or so to begin to detach from their WW's, and this seems to gain momentum from there. You can do this.

If all you want to do is feel sorry for yourself and punish your WW then keep doing what you are doing. If not, I think you know how to begin your path to healing.

Let me add one thing: forgiveness almost always means different things to different people. You have the human right to define "forgiveness" in the way if feel right to you. You also have the human right to withhold it until you honestly feel you have gotten to a place of forgiveness.

[This message edited by ISurvived7734 at 4:22 PM, September 12th (Tuesday)]

<i>We went to some marriage counseling that my company paid for but it was a bunch of crap. The therapist basically laid the blame for her cheating on me. Blah blah blah.</i>

I never understand this. Isn't an essential corollary of the idea that she gets credit for you being loyal?

Why am I expected to forgive?

You're not expected to forgive anything. However, forgiveness is for yourself, not for her. It helped me tremendously to forgive the person, not necessarily the act. In other words, instead of thinking of her as a cheater, think of her has a nice person that once cheated. The difference is subtle, but it's easier to respect and forgive your wife when you stop thinking of her as a slut (her past) and start thinking of her has your loving wife (your current situation). Think about it, who wants to Reconcile with a slut? By forgiving her, it begins the process of changing the negative attitude you currently have towards her. By withholding forgiveness, you are indirectly punishing her for the affair. You may not think you are, but you are definitely still holding the affair over her head.

Forgiveness does not mean you are required to stay in the marriage. It's just the next step towards healing yourself and getting out of infidelity. I have come to believe the worst thing you can do is stay in some type of a halfhearted relationship with a WS. You should either commit 100% to R, or start the divorce process.

Sorry you are going through this.

I, too, read a lot of pain and anger in your OP. That's eating you alive, whether you realize it or not. If you look inside - maybe you'll need to look hard - I bet you'll find grief, fear, and shame, too.

I urge you to do the work you need to do to process those feelings. That will allow you to decide whether you will give your son one happy home - reconciliation - or 2 homes, at least one of which will be happy (yours) - divorce.

Right now I fear you and your WS are giving him an empty home.

Your son is 14 and your WW is still a SAHM. Have you considered that this might be a trigger for you? The fact that you work hard all day and that when she was at home she was F___ing some guy. I'd ask her to get a job, this will help out if you ever do divorce (maybe after he is 18) and it might help you see her in a new light.

What about the example you're showing your son? Kids are not stupid and what's worse, they live what we model.....

She's clearly broken and hurt you badly.

This is now hurting him because you're teaching him to objectify women, etc.

Kids (my own have told me this) would rather come from a "broken" home, then an unhealthy one.

Not jumping on you, just something to think about.

Well it's not exactly like a brother/sister relationship because you have sex with her. Do you think this is setting a healthy example of marriage for your son?

Probably not. But I think that the grace I have shown her in all other areas makes up for some of that. But I do appreciate your point.

I operate under a "Next Best Theory". You want the marriage you had before her adultery. I expect she does as well. You can't have that back. You've found the "next best" thing. Your right, she has it within her to take that option away from you. She has to go through that same calculus to find her "next best".

Minn talked about forgiveness erasing a debt. Debt exists because of a transgression. The (remorseful) transgressor owes a debt to the person harmed. Atonement is the means by which the transgressor seeks to erase the debt. Atonement is made to make up for the harm that was done. But atonement does not mean that they are owed forgiveness.

This is great stuff. I do want her to forgive herself. I want our son and her family to forgive her. And it does weigh on me sometimes that I cannot.

What about the example you're showing your son? Kids are not stupid and what's worse, they live what we model.....

She's clearly broken and hurt you badly.

This is now hurting him because you're teaching him to objectify women, etc.

Kids (my own have told me this) would rather come from a "broken" home, then an unhealthy one.

Not jumping on you, just something to think about.

Now hold on. He doesn't see what goes on in the bedroom. Most of the time when we have sex he's at a friend's house or fast asleep, and his bedroom is down in the basement. He's at an age where he locks himself in there and never comes out, and he never comes upstairs to our bedroom. When he does interact with us, during family time or dinner, he sees me treating his mom with respect. Even on right after D-day, he never saw us fighting. I have never objectified his mom in front of him. She and I are always a united front with him.

I, too, read a lot of pain and anger in your OP. That's eating you alive, whether you realize it or not. If you look inside - maybe you'll need to look hard - I bet you'll find grief, fear, and shame, too.

I urge you to do the work you need to do to process those feelings. That will allow you to decide whether you will give your son one happy home - reconciliation - or 2 homes, at least one of which will be happy (yours) - divorce.

Right now I fear you and your WS are giving him an empty home.

I appreciate this, and you may be on the right track. To be honest I have not done much in the way of introspection. I can look back prior to her affair and see where I came up short as a husband at times. But then I remember all the positive things I did for her, and I'm back to square one. I am not being boastful when I say I was a very doting and loving husband. I loved her dearly, and I never failed to let her know it. But ultimately that was not enough.

Your story is very similar to mine. Some guy, in my house, having sex with my wife. I didn't catch her in the act, but the PI I hired basically did.

The first year I was filled with hate and anger and lashed out frequently. But she was like Ali, and I was Foreman (figuratively) and I had punched myself out. We kind of settled back into a marriage. I still had moments of anger, but not like before.

Our sex too generated into more or less me getting laid. Prior there were candles and romance, but that was all gone. Especially when I heard she had tried to do the same with the AP.

I also just basically did whatever the hell I wanted. Golf trip with the buddies? I did check the dates with her but never asked her opinion if I should go like we had done prior to the affair.

She was like your wife. Begged me to forgive her, but just couldn't . I am not sure if you exposed at all, but we didn't, so I felt the added insult that she had just gotten away with it. This lasted for five years when I realized I had one life to live, and this wasn't the way I wanted to do it.

I got great suggestions here on how to reconcile, but frankly I had no fight left in me. She was willing, but I just didn't want to put in the work, and it is hard, to come out the other side.

The only thing is I did realize that I was punishing her by my actions. Not that she didn't deserve it. Her actions had consequences. But that grated on me to. I knew I was a dick and that didn't make me feel any better. Probably worse. My wife like yours lived with the sword of divorce hanging over her head. After 6 years the sword swung and we are now split.

She doesn't see it this way, but I think I am doing her a favor. How we were living is just not healthy.

If this is working for you, keep doing what you are doing. She has to be prepared that this will be the way it is. You are now calling the shots. At least she has a say in it. You didn't while she was banging some guy in your bed.

Good news for everyone. I lost a long post.

Shout out to CECS for reaching out to a bh. Says a lot about you.

OP, you are only a little over two years out. She is asking too soon given what happened.

She is not doing the work just like WWTL ww did for 5 years and will get the same result.

She needs to help you heal and heal the marriage. Just sex and crying do not do it

Your son can have a stable home under the care of a real man he calls his father. Just because parents are divorced doesn't mean they can't co-parent, and yes I understand about not wanting to share, but this arrangement is unhealthy, it's no longer a friendship or a partnership and no matter how well you think you hide it, children especially teens can sense when dynamics are wrong and yes there are.

For all the you're not holding it over her head, you really are. She wants to stay so she does everything to placate you which in itself is insincere, while you hold that power over her because she doesn't want to leave. Indeed the relationship may have warped to the point where she might actually respect you for how you're behaving and she might like that but again, not healthy for her and ultimately not for you.

I think you might be missing something important. From what you have written it seems that you are capable of loving someone deeply and by staying in this arrangement you are depriving yourself of a true, loving, committed relationship. You chose someone who it seems doesn't have the capacity for true, genuine love...will you be satisfied with that in the long run? Its like living in a house that is run down just because you don't want to make the effort to move. Life is not a trial run, you have to make the most of every day you are given. I think you might find that all you have in the end are regrets.

So how do I get her to accept that I am no longer in love with her and I have no desire to forgive.

Divorce her. I can't think of any other way.

Now hold on. He doesn't see what goes on in the bedroom. Most of the time when we have sex he's at a friend's house or fast asleep, and his bedroom is down in the basement. He's at an age where he locks himself in there and never comes out, and he never comes upstairs to our bedroom. When he does interact with us, during family time or dinner, he sees me treating his mom with respect. Even on right after D-day, he never saw us fighting. I have never objectified his mom in front of him. She and I are always a united front with him.

I think its fine staying like this if you want. People tend to overblow that modelling an unhealthy relationship stuff for kids. If you guys get along, don't fight and show each other respect around each other then that better than many marriages where their is mutual love but lots of in house tension for the kids. He's at an age where he doesn't really want to see mom and dad cuddling on the couch, reading each other love notes aloud and professing their love 24/7. I don't know any married couples that do this anyways.

No need to forgive her or even love her again. You also can leave her if you decide you can't tolerate this arrangement anymore. Eventually, though, he will be out of the house, and you won't have any excuse to stay in an unhappy marriage, so go ahead and prepare your parachute plan.

LWP, a lot of your story could be right out of my life. I didn't walk in on them, but I did discover a whole history of affairs and a current LTA going on all at once. Once of the few things I wish I had done is what you did, kick her out for awhile. I regret not doing that.

The rest of your story is right out of my life. "Resentment" is the best word I have come up with to describe the stand off indifference our marriage had become. The marriage had become "tolerable". What a terrible state to be in. The most important relationship in our lives, and the best you can do is "tolerable"? It took me over a decade to realize that I can't do this anymore, I won't live like this.Even after all those years, we both kept walking around the huge elephant in the room, ignoring it like it wasn't there. Finally we had to sit down and go over everything again and decide if we both were going to fix it or not.

She was certainly not going to bring up anything to stir it up. I finally realized it was me that was going to have to do something, ...anything.

I cannot forgive or forget the betrayal, but I had to decide that I could deal with it and try to make it a life I could enjoy again.

Sometimes it's the BS that has to step towards the middle first. Stubborn pride cost me many years. I finally realized that I really just needed to get out of my own way, lower my shields, and take a leap of faith. No promises, no guarantees, but taking a chance.

Hope this helps.