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At 14 he would not be affected all that much or for all that long by a divorce

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I respectfully disagree. My FWH's MOW has a son who was 15 at the time of the A. The MOW separated from her husband 10 mos into the year long affair and the son for the first time started having behavioral issues at school. His Dad (OBS) emailed me about it after Dday. I have two sons and almost all of their friends who went through their parents divorce had issues - some longer than others. Divorce is very hard on kids...

On another note, I totally understand how you feel. I'm about 18 mos out and sometimes I feel like I'm just pretending to love my FWH. I'm just not feeling it lately..

[This message edited by LoveTKO at 12:04 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

I think that's an unfair generalization. I think it's more like many women are embarrassed to be open about their preferences, especially if it falls outside the stereotypical "ladylike norm."

I also think many women are afraid of hurting their husband's feelings, in that if they ask for something new and different he'll take it as though what he's been doing isn't good enough to get the job done.

It would not have bothered me. I would not have seen it as complaining. I would have seen it as asking for something she needed. I may not be naturally aggressive in bed, but I can act aggressive if that is what she needed. It isn't rocket science. I can say that the only part of our marriage that has really changed for the better through this whole ordeal is the sex. It is qualitatively better, just no longer emotionally intimate for me. I need intimacy in sex, but my wife does not desire or respond to intimacy through sex. That is the biggest sexual difference between us. The rest of it is just physical maneuvers. I can handle the physical stuff easily. She wants her hair pulled? I 'll pull her hair. She wants to be pinned down? I'll pin her down. All she has to do is tell me what she likes and I do it.

Your feelings are absolutely valid.

My response to her was that my love for her must not have been worth anything since she decided to cheat on me. Why should it be worth anything now, and why should she value my trust in her now more than all the other things I provide her with? She took my love and trust for granted, to the point where she stomped on them.

I would ask myself: Would it matter if she truly does the work and changes? Or am I done completely? Do I think that the things I provide her with are as important as trust and love?

Gently, I don't think IC twice a month is doing it for her. Has she read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair? Is she journaling? Has she been digging into the real reasons why she thought this was okay with her IC?

Is there a reason she has not gotten a job? Is she homeschooling your son? (I imagine not since she wasn't with him during the affair). Having a job may be beneficial to both of you as being employed has a way of wiping out some entitlement from people. This would also ensure she didn't have a lot of time to repeat this action and possible open you up to STDs again without your knowledge.

As for an IC - it's like dating. You won't know if you are a good fit until you try a few out and ask some questions. Make sure to mention the infidelity. I'm sorry your MC was awful. There are good ones out there, but they take some looking if you are ever in the market again.

[This message edited by strugglebus at 12:47 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

strugglebus: I would ask myself: Would it matter if she truly does the work and changes? Or am I done completely? Do I think that the things I provide her with are as important as trust and love?

I think it would. I do not think I'm done with her. I'm waiting, and she knows that. She has been going to IC twice a month. She does not report to me what goes on, but oftentimes she comes home in a foul mood or puffy eyed. I see the invoice reports from my insurance showing she attended. So I know she is going.

As for your last question? I don not know. I need to ponder that. I would say that for now, if not for me, she would be essentially homeless.

strugglebus Gently, I don't think IC twice a month is doing it for her. Has she read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair? Is she journaling? Has she been digging into the real reasons why she thought this was okay with her IC?

I think it may be the quality of the IC, not so much the quantity. She says she likes this counselor, but I'm not sure that is a good thing. I would think if the counselor was holding her feet to the fire she would not like her so much.

I do not know if she has read that book, but I will ask her to do so.

As for digging, the only thing she has told me is that she needs constant reassurance for everything...which is true. She needs constant reassurance that she is attractive, that I appreciate what she does, that I love her. She needs all these things almost on a daily basis. She admits that she is trying to become more emotionally stable and not so needy on reassurance. But that is really it. She says that the OM really laid it on thick and she liked the constant ego stroking, which she was not getting from me. She admits to letting her guard down and allowing herself to be seduced. I told her I didn't believe that: that I thought she was the one chasing him. She denies that however and says it was mutual chasing.

That is about it.

strugglebus: Is there a reason she has not gotten a job? Is she homeschooling your son? (I imagine not since she wasn't with him during the affair). Having a job may be beneficial to both of you as being employed has a way of wiping out some entitlement from people. This would also ensure she didn't have a lot of time to repeat this action and possible open you up to STDs again without your knowledge.

Before we married and for about two years after she worked in retail department store sales. She has suffered from a blood disorder called Paraproteinemia most of her adult life, which has resulted in severe vision problems over the years, among other health issues. She is legally blind, and it may get worse as she ages. It has basically kept her from having a decent job. Also, she can no longer drive but has to take mass transit if I am not available to drive her. So it became easier to just allow her to be a homemaker.

Not that this excuses her, but this is why the OM would come to our house, or he would take her elsewhere. She was spending about 20 hours a week volunteering at our church and that is how she became involved with the other man.

strugglebus: As for an IC - it's like dating. You won't know if you are a good fit until you try a few out and ask some questions. Make sure to mention the infidelity. I'm sorry your MC was awful. There are good ones out there, but they take some looking if you are ever in the market again.

I am attending my first IC session tonight and I am hopeful. We shall see.

Question to all: is it possible to love "actively" without loving emotionally? I am trying my best actively show love for my wife through service and support, because for now that is all I can do. I just don't "feel" it.

Its really not up to you to do so in any way if she is not all-in for R.

Also, if she can't collect SS disability, then she needs to find some work to occupy herself.

love "actively" without loving emotionally?

I tend to believe so. I think that as our relationships change, that passion that drew us at first just isn't there anymore and we have to decide to continue to love someone. And I also tend to believe that out of that deciding, comes the commitment and the determination and AN emotion. It's a different kind of love than before. I think I read something about this in one of the books. - Ok-- I found it. It's in a book called, "intimacy after infidelity" by Steven Solomon and Lorie Teagno. Ok- but that's not what you're asking- sorry I got carried away.

Yes. I think you can decide to love "actively." it may or may not lead to the emotional part you're looking for. I think it depends on what the other person brings as well.

Don't try to love for the sake of love.

If love returns, so be it.

Why do you want to actively love her when you don't feel it? Why do you feel you need to act ungenuine? If you want to live amicably as roommates with the occasional marital benefits thrown in, then just be honest. If she can't handle that, then she can leave. If you don't love her, you really haven't much to lose here by just living honestly.

But after that day I looked at her and no longer felt anything.

I think that is when the indifference set in. I think that's what happened to me as a coping mechanism when trying to deal with it. She simply didn't matter anymore, she wasn't that important. It makes it so much easier to deal with.

She could stay, or she could go, didn;t matter. Divorce? Just an inconvenience, but if it comes to that, so be it. Indifference.

Sex was as you described. Not bad, but just sex, no emotional connection, to the point I preferred " doggy style" so I wouldn't be looking at her face. (tmi).

I'm not really sure, but I think that is what is referred to as the Plain of Lethal Flatness, here on SI. I think that's what I call everything being "tolerable". It's like you're stuck in a waiting room waiting for your name to be called. Roommates.

The hardest part about R is getting rid of the indifference that got you through the pain and hurt.

I don't know how long ago this happened, but at some point somebody has to take a step toward the other.

The last weekend has been really rough. I have been going to IC, hoping it would have made things better but instead I feel worse. The therapist says I definitely am suffering from PTSD and most likely depression. She called me a "poster child" for PTSD.

The therapist wants to send me to a psychologist for a complete mental evaluation. I'm not looking forward to this because if I am depressed they are going to want to medicate me. I hate medications of any kind. When I got home after my therapy session last Friday I completely ignored my WW and went out and sat on the back porch all evening. She asked me the next morning what had happened and I told her about the PTSD and possible depression.

She just sat on the bed and started crying and told me how sorry she was for doing this too me. I just sat there and watched her sob and I didn't feel a damn thing. I rubbed her back and let her hold me, but I didn't return the hug.

My WW is trying, but I can't seem to get off high-center.

[This message edited by LivingWithPain at 11:08 AM, October 9th (Monday)]

That has got to hurt. Time is really your only friend at this point. Its going to take time to process this and slowly let those feelings go. I tried to explain this to my xW but she just thought I was in the wrong and her ongoing cheating was my fault.

At least your wife is seeing the damage she caused.

I hope things get better for you.

C

Yeah, the docs will recommend AD meds. Because they are effect when they get dialed in. Try to get PTSD specific therapy. Are you sleeping well, wake up rested? Eating regularly? Exercise? Depression can result in poor sleep. And poor sleep by itself can trigger depression.

Can you hit the gym? Good hard lifting will increases your T level and blood flow.

Sorry to hear about this. I can tell it has hit you hard.

hope you do find some peace.

I am on some meds now. I do not like it.

my wife is a nurse at a psych hospital.

Sometimes they help, but I hate it when it makes me feel like a zombie.

Sometimes, it is important to get the dose adjusted.

Some day, I think I just want to get out of infidelity.

Have not figured it all out. Hope you do.

How about trying something. Next time, instead of rubbing her back, when she cries, you hug her. In fact you need to hug her everyday. You say you don't feel anything so hugging her everyday shouldn't bother you at all, but it will help her. You will never get anything back unless you put something in. If you can have sex with her then you can hug her or hold and cuddle with her and give her the validation she needs. Once again, if you feel nothing then you are losing nothing and you are giving her something she needs. And maybe, just maybe, in time, this effort at intimacy may spark something new in you. What have you got to lose? If you feel nothing then you lost nothing but if a spark does present itself then you have gained something. As far as the depression, meds may do you a world of good. Don't view it as being weak. Depression can take many manifestations. For me it was anger. And I am far from weak. I am retired military, US Army Special Forces, and then spent 20 years banging heads with criminals. Your average alpha male. My wife is the one that got me to the family doctor after I blew up at a man I liked and respected. I was put on Wellbutrin and have been my sweet and loveable self ever since. My depression stemmed from years of stress, danger, and periods of violence. So my advice is go see that doctor. It just might change your whole outlook on life. I do wish you well.

I straight up told my wh that I am working on coming to terms with what he did. I don’t think I can ever forgive him. He was too quick to apologize. Everyone is too quick to apologize. Who really means it when it falls out of your mouth like a bagel crumb?

They made their bed and laying in it takes a whole lot of readjustment now. And, like you said, if it’s too lumpy, the door is always open. For both of us. The door is open for all of us.

LWP, post-DDay2 I was on the plain of the lethal flatness too. Like all the feelings towards her were uninstalled from my system. Total indifference.

Several months later feelings started to return. I wouldn't call it love, though. Maybe some tenderness towards her, I don't know.

But.

What you wrote about you seeing her cry and not feeling anything really resonated with me. I, too, don't feel a thing when she cries.

Just today I posted in another General thread, about the songs that reflect your state. Look up Savlonic - Android.

Curious 9 : That has got to hurt. Time is really your only friend at this point. Its going to take time to process this and slowly let those feelings go. I tried to explain this to my xW but she just thought I was in the wrong and her ongoing cheating was my fault.

At least your wife is seeing the damage she caused.

I hope things get better for you.

C

Thank you for understanding. I told my WW that I "wanted" to feel for her, but that it wasn't there yet. She said yesterday that what I said gave her hope, because at least I was still wanting to feel it again someday

TimelessLoss: Yeah, the docs will recommend AD meds. Because they are effect when they get dialed in. Try to get PTSD specific therapy. Are you sleeping well, wake up rested? Eating regularly? Exercise? Depression can result in poor sleep. And poor sleep by itself can trigger depression.

Can you hit the gym? Good hard lifting will increases your T level and blood flow.

Sorry to hear about this. I can tell it has hit you hard.

I go in for my psych eval next Thursday. I have to take the day off. The worst thing is I have to lie to my employer about what I am doing. I just know that if word got out that I was on depression meds I could lose my job.

I go to the gym three days a week and I hit the free weights pretty hard. I wake up every day at 4:00 a.m. and walk my dog. I try to walk a good three to four miles each morning. As for eating, I have always tried to just eat a balanced 30/30/30 diet. I don't eat sugary foods.

harrybrown

I hope you do find some peace.

I am on some meds now. I do not like it.

my wife is a nurse at a psych hospital.

Sometimes they help, but I hate it when it makes me feel like a zombie.

Sometimes, it is important to get the dose adjusted.

Some day, I think I just want to get out of infidelity.

Have not figured it all out. Hope you do.

Thanks. I don't want to go on meds. I'm thinking of asking my IC if there is a natural or holistic remedy out there.

anoldlion: How about trying something. Next time, instead of rubbing her back, when she cries, you hug her. In fact you need to hug her everyday. You say you don't feel anything so hugging her everyday shouldn't bother you at all, but it will help her. You will never get anything back unless you put something in. If you can have sex with her then you can hug her or hold and cuddle with her and give her the validation she needs. Once again, if you feel nothing then you are losing nothing and you are giving her something she needs. And maybe, just maybe, in time, this effort at intimacy may spark something new in you. What have you got to lose? If you feel nothing then you lost nothing but if a spark does present itself then you have gained something. As far as the depression, meds may do you a world of good. Don't view it as being weak. Depression can take many manifestations. For me it was anger. And I am far from weak. I am retired military, US Army Special Forces, and then spent 20 years banging heads with criminals. Your average alpha male. My wife is the one that got me to the family doctor after I blew up at a man I liked and respected. I was put on Wellbutrin and have been my sweet and loveable self ever since. My depression stemmed from years of stress, danger, and periods of violence. So my advice is go see that doctor. It just might change your whole outlook on life. I do wish you well.

Those are wise words oldlion. You are right: to get something out I have to put something in.

LumpinStomach: I straight up told my wh that I am working on coming to terms with what he did. I don’t think I can ever forgive him. He was too quick to apologize. Everyone is too quick to apologize. Who really means it when it falls out of your mouth like a bagel crumb?

They made their bed and laying in it takes a whole lot of readjustment now. And, like you said, if it’s too lumpy, the door is always open. For both of us. The door is open for all of us.

I feel this. While my WW and I were living apart our church family was constantly calling me asking me to give her forgiveness and take her back. And then the pastor jumped on me telling me that if I did not forgive her and take her back that I was not really a Christian.

Thing is, it took that church three months to come to the determination that the OM, who was the Sunday school director, needed to be sacked. Three months! And my WW was still continuing to attend there.

It's hard to even think of forgiving someone when you are being blamed for what they did and told that you are a heathen for not wanting to forgive them.

I left the church. No more of that garbage.

DarkHoleHeart: LWP, post-DDay2 I was on the plain of the lethal flatness too. Like all the feelings towards her were uninstalled from my system. Total indifference.

Several months later feelings started to return. I wouldn't call it love, though. Maybe some tenderness towards her, I don't know.

But.

What you wrote about you seeing her cry and not feeling anything really resonated with me. I, too, don't feel a thing when she cries.

Just today I posted in another General thread, about the songs that reflect your state. Look up Savlonic - Android.

It is a terrible feeling not to feel. I feel like I'm a ship in the Doldrums. Just bobbing in the fog, going nowhere fast. It is terrible. I think I preferred it back when I was mad and hurting. At least I was feeling.

[This message edited by LivingWithPain at 9:14 AM, October 13th (Friday)]

The worst thing is I have to lie to my employer about what I am doing. I just know that if word got out that I was on depression meds I could lose my job

I hear you. That was me too. I told my primary doc and she said she would "code" my records in such a way as to give me maximum protection. I paid cash for a therapist rather than run it through my insurance at work. No problem there since it was off the books for them. I asked the IC to be discrete. Never got a firm commitment, just "We'll do all we can." And for a while I paid cash for the AD rather than use insurance.

This was all necessary because my periodic security questionnaire required disclosure of "mental health counseling, including those related to marital difficulties".

I told the IC from day one that I was there for

"coaching to improve my family life."

But ya, real fear. It kept me from getting treatment for years.