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We had amazing sex the next couple of months after DDay. I could not believe how great. Neither could my spouse.

It went on until I figured out that that is what the A's must have been like and it all suddenly stopped.

I have been trying to figure out why it stopped.

In my case the A's happened years before.

How could they possibly affect our sex life now?

So I have been reading up on Dopamine, chemical dependency (drugs) and relating to HB.

I read how the BS goes through an ugly time of hell, a Low, during the A while the WS is operating on the excitement of illicit sex, on a High.

After DDay the BS tries to reclaim their missing highs, the Dopamine kicks in and takes over and great HB happens. But then the realization of the A comes back - a downer.

So that was why it stopped for me. I let my over-thinking/realizations get in the way of a sure thing.

What I found interesting was how important NC is.

Imagine a rehabilitated drug addict, one whiff of the substance and he is straight back where he started.

Think about a reformed WS and how a broken NC can affect them.

How it instantly can take them back to that Dopamine inspired high, reminding them on a body chemical level, what they missed.

Not even on a mental level. Just the body craving.

My spouse had a year long A, but afterwards, she changed for the good and became the perfect wife and companion.

For the next 5 years, we changed jobs, moved a thousand miles away to the big city, bought a house, started a family, had a life.

We could not have been more happier.

Until one day she met up with that old flame for a cup of coffee.

After that meeting the next A's with the other APs happened. Took over the rest of the year until she got pregnant.

Dopamine inspired rush? Body craving?

She always said "I don't know what happened - it wasn't me"

So I am going to have to pump up my own Dopamine levels. Gotta get that HB back again.

...while the WS is operating on the excitement of illicit sex, on a High.

And that's why I never believed my cheater's bullshit story about how boring or 'bad' the sex was.

I actually never engaged in HB with either of my cheaters. I have to admit that HB is a completely foreign concept to me. I always thought of it as rewarding my cheater for their crap behavior and I wasn't about to do that.

After that meeting the next A's with the other APs happened. Took over the rest of the year until she got pregnant.

Oh my. You're reconciling? Good luck to you.

[This message edited by NoMercy at 6:45 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

I don't think HB is something you can just turn on when you want to. And trying to is likely to make you feel disgusting (at least it did in my experience)

Hb is a joke to me I have read all the clinical explanations in my mind it's just a huge mind fuck.. Its sex nothing more nothing less.How can it be anything more ?

If you wanna have sex have it if you don't then don't.

Some say it's a reclaiming what are we reclaiming something that's not there and never will be?

My spouse had a year long A, but afterwards, she changed for the good and became the perfect wife and companion.

...

Until one day she met up with that old flame for a cup of coffee.

...

Dopamine inspired rush? Body craving?

She always said "I don't know what happened - it wasn't me"

I took these sentences out because the first two statements do not go together. She did not become a "perfect wife and companion", because if she was perfect - or even good enough to consider you in her decisions - she would have no desire to sit down with the person who helped her blast holes in your relationship.

It was 110% her - she made a choice. Every step of the way with every AP, she was choosing. Unless she has a severe mental illness that was her.

It sounds like your wife was a "dry drunk" for 5 years. She had only changed her actions but didn't do the real work of digging into what inside her allows her to abuse a person she loves. That is some DEEP psychological stuff and it doesn't get resolved by force of will alone. People who have put in the work to create and maintain healthy boundaries, who have strategies for dealing with their wants and needs in ways that are respectful of others and who are working through their issues no longer have the urge to seek out that kind of person (seeing the ex AP for example) because they know what the fall out is.

HB is absolutely normal. Most people go through it. It is a temporary thing though and not a solution. Good luck. This is not a fun ride.

Yeah good luck with that. We had HB and while it was fun it ended when the rage hit. 4 years later despite our best efforts it never came back. I didn't know it was HB until after it ended.

Some say it's a reclaiming what are we reclaiming something that's not there and never will be?

This.

strugglebus : I get your point. True, she was like a dry drunk for that 5 year period. I never knew about that A because she never owned up to it, not until 30 years later.

I think it would be best for you to not excuse her behavior or allow her to excuse it. This was not because of chemicals. This was her. She has to address these demons inside of her, without that subconsciously you will feel unsafe and bonding (hysterical or not) will be harder for you both.

If she was truly a good companion at that point, it wouldn't matter if you knew about the A. She did damage to you and that person helped. The holes were there, you were just unaware.

[This message edited by strugglebus at 8:59 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

How can it be anything more ?

If all sex is for you is an empty, emotionless physical act - why would you care about the betrayal?

Because it is so rarely simply 'just' sex.

You care about the betrayal because of the emotions involved and the connection you thought you had with your spouse.

I have to have a connection with the person, or I'm not interested. I'm fairly certain it is that way with the majority of humans.

HB was a lot more primal than I thought possible, but it was still about rebuilding a connection with someone I care about. Reclaiming, to me, is only a tiny first step -- but I get it, first is reclaiming a place in the bedroom, but that only gets people so far. Sex is only one part of a relationship. A very important part, and that's why the connecting with each other is just as or more important.

As to what "will ever be" that's a choice -- we didn't choose to be cheated on, but we get to choose everything else after that. Including a choice to build a stronger relationship with a partner who you want to build that connection with (regardless of the path you take, R or D).

I don't think HB is something you can just turn on when you want to.

I agree. I think it is a certain window after emotional trauma - for some people it lasts hours, others months - but that specific feeling and desire eventually moves back within 'normal' range.

HB worked as a nice foundation for us, but the sense of urgency, the crazy bits, have calmed down a bunch.

What I found interesting was how important NC is.

I think infidelity keeps the body chemistry at high levels, because the 'relationship' is mostly about ego gratification without the reality of the regular stressful relationship, the real one with the bills, and kids, and rent, car repairs and the mundane. Infidelity rarely has to deal with the real stuff, and the escape will almost always be more fun.

Oldwounds, Maybe I should have more clear sex with ww now is just sex before it was the emotional connection which is what made it special. Obviously the emotional connection wasn't strong enough for the waywards at the time of the infidelity,so to expect a betrayed to have after the fact is asking alot.

Also as far a reclaiming and a connection I can't reclaim something that was shared with another as far as a connection that also fell by the wayside when ww cheated and lied.

My anolgy is this would you hire a recovered drug addict to a pharmacy?

Maybe I should have more clear sex with ww now is just sex before it was the emotional connection which is what made it special.

Ah. Then I agree with you, infidelity breaks that special bond for sure.

My anolgy is this would you hire a recovered drug addict to a pharmacy?

This is an awesome analogy on a LOT of levels.

Recovered is the key word here.

Are they truly recovered? If so, they have learned how dangerous it is to use those drugs as well as the horrible damage that addiction causes the people they love.

And the thread is focused on sex, but my wife was addicted to the positive attention, the compliments, the escape -- the sex certainly held some gratification too. Ultimately, it was a bad trade, her AP was the sex addict (and actually called to apologize as part of his 12-step addict program a while back).

Anyway, my wife is proving she is no longer addicted to the the validation outside of our marriage. But she had to know what it was she addicted to, she had to own all of it and has to always be aware that compliments from men is something she once craved.

So far, she is proving to be recovered. One day at a time.

Based on that rebuilding trust, we're also working on rebuilding that broken connection between us.

It can happen, it can be special again - but not the same kind. Our 'new' special is overcoming adversity together. Not the same, but so far, so good.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 10:44 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

Kudos to you and your Mrs.

I often times ponder how others get beyond this staying with the wayward spouse knowing what they are fully capable of. To expand on the anolgy if there are 3 canidates for the job all being equal in qualifications but when is a recovery addict which canidate do you cross off first?

BBD -

Your trepidation was well earned by your wife's bad choices. And you've fought every instinct you've ever had, just to see if you can find a way to stay.

I get it. It is the kind of thing that shortens a man's life, causes ulcers and endless heartache.

The only way to choose that candidate that hurt you -- is IF that candidate is proving to be vastly superior choice by learning from her f'd up decision.

In that sense, I don't know enough about your world and if your wife has figured out her damage and is fighting for you everyday.

It is the only way I could do this. My wife understands it too, so she does everything she can to be that best choice for me -- now.

Because there are always other candidates to choose from, or none at all. The sad part is, I've read here long enough to see people get with someone new and get betrayed again anyway. That isn't a reason to stay. The ONLY reason to stay is if the person you are with is a safe, loving partner.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 11:32 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

Amen brother..

Thanks for the feedback..

These are great responses with a lot of mind opening ideas. Thanks Oldwounds & BBD.

Why I brought up the HB & the dopamine thing:

From my point, I have always felt that I had a very strong emotional & physical connection to my spouse for almost 41 years. (but clearly I was wrong)

Throughout the A's I looked for reasons (excuses) for her "off" attitude towards me, ie. I was in love, I was blinded, I looked the other way.

Now I have changed. I am not happy with this new person I have become. Somehow I am just not THERE.

We spend a lot of time together and I enjoy that. We talk a lot, watch movies, go for walks, even cook together. We spend a lot of time just cuddling.

But the sexual thing is a problem. Right now I can take it or leave it. Mostly I leave it. I can look forward to it, think about it etc.

But when it comes around... I am just not that interested.

I was wondering if it was a dopamine thing?

Is it a physical or mental issue?

And what can I do about it?

Or am I just on that dreaded lethal plain of flatness!

Oldwounds: It is great to hear about a WS that tries to understand her reasons/problems and tries to do something positive to fix those issues.

My WS is there to help me move on, but is not up for any type of self-introspection. 30+ Years after the last A, she feels there is no need to go back there. It is too sad for her to open the box on that part of her life.

[This message edited by iamanidiot at 4:37 AM, August 30th (Wednesday)]

Oldwounds

Ultimately, it was a bad trade, her AP was the sex addict (and actually called to apologize as part of his 12-step addict program a while back).

To apologize to you Old Wounds your WS, or both.

I have to have a connection with the person, or I'm not interested. I'm fairly certain it is that way with the majority of humans.

^^ This.

SA and Long Term Adultery add a whole other layer of hurt and mind movies. There was no HB, and sex is off the table while Emotional and Spiritual intimacy is established. SAWS choices nuked any previous intimacy.