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^^^^ what Sharkman says up there is the best position to be in. She zero leverage for the moment until she gets an attorney. Her only tool left is manipulation.

Some great posts about the 180. Its not about being rude or revenge it's about empowerment.

To what end is she manipulating me? I have no idea how this works. Been told she'd try, but what is she seeking to gain? I guess after the nice talking sexual manipulation is next? Any suggestions for defense?

Her "life as usual" is a form of manipulation. They have not ended their relationship...but he has told her to lay low while the investigation is going on. She needs you to support her right now, she needs the confidence that you will be a back-up if things sour with OM. She needs to know that things can go back to normal if she just acts that way....

This isn't want you want. OM has to be NC right now for legal reasons. She wants to keep things happy at home until he is available to sweep her away again. You should not be giving her the idea that it can all be forgiven and back to normal if she "just says the word"... she should be questioning what is going on in your head...that you are ready to move on without her.

Do a hard 180 until you are 100% positive they are over.

I dont' think you are going to get the sexual advances unless she was worried about losing you. Right now she is cake eating. She has your support at home and memories of her lover.

As a side note. While you WW believes they are soul mates there is no way this relationship could be more than .... what it is, a cheap affair. This 3 time married, serial cheater is not going to want an older woman, with bills and older kids. If he stays in the military your kids aren't going to want to move and I believe they have a choice at this age. She loses the kids (CS) and her job...he isn't going to be able to support her...and she isn't going to be happy with the moves, and deployments.... Not your concern but it's nice to realize it will never work.

On D day, my xwife dropped OM like a hot potato.

I, in turn, dropped her nearly as quick, about two weeks thereafter.

I was decisive.

She was left looking like a complete idiot, with neither him nor me.

She begged for forgiveness; I told her to fuck off.

And yes, it's all about empowerment.

If her behavior is due to recent disclosure, you now call the shots.

Stay in the driver's seat.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 2:03 PM, August 28th (Monday)]

At this point she is acting like it never happened and wants you to forget about it, but she has to be in full tilt panic mode because she knows the OM has slammed the door on her and mostly likely has figured out he is in a world of shit, and quite possibly her too. She has few options, and none of them are good. She has figured out her best play is to stay invisible and quite, hoping you will give in and take her back, as it was.

You doing the 180 properly, will make her realize that isn't working. The more you reject her and move towards divorce, losing her kids, her home, and any sense of security and a future, the more desperate she will become. It's likely that the all out sexual attempt at manipulation will happen soon.

On the 180:

You don't have to be rude or ugly, the key if being INDIFFERENT. As in, YOU DON'T CARE WHAT SHE DOES. Not your problem any longer.

I never got to this point, but others here have not had the "turn around" until the WS was served with divorce papers. Only then did it become real and unavoidable. Whether or not you follow thru with a D is your business, but in this case I think filing and serving papers ASAP would be required and to your benefit in the long run no matter how it turns out. I see no downside for you.

Got it. I have been indifferent for the last two days since I posted that I was struggling. I believe her little world is starting to unravel. She has been leaving her phone unattended, tells me who it is when she gets a text, and a telling sign for me, she could shit in a bowl and post it on FB and OM would almost immediately like it. Since Friday she has made ten posts and he has liked three, days after she posted it. I think in addition to the work heat, he is pissed that I have moved back in, since he's the one that told her to get me out, and pissed at her for not doing anything to get me out. He even offered to pay for the divorce. I handed her the packet for her to sign and she started to cry. I also confronted her with concrete proof that she had told several major lies about me and she broke down again. I asked her why she did it and she said I have no idea. So I told her I did, to make me the villain, justify her actions, and make OM feel like he was rescuing her.

One question- I understand the indifferent attitude of the 180, but doesn't it kinda seem like your allowing them to carry on with the A? Maybe not allowing but just could care less if they do? Also, She's starting texting me more than just one line texts now. Actual conversations about daily stuff, like grocery runs etc. I answer back in one to three word responses. Is that ok to do?

That's perfect. Keep it short and indifferent.

As for the A, at this point it is her business if she keeps it going. Assume she is.

You cannot reconcile with an unremorseful wife. If she were remorseful she'd be apologizing non stop and begging for forgiveness. Until she is in front of you doing that you keep proceeding as you have been.

Once she is seen to be fully remorseful I and others could give you 20+ steps she will need to take to even start the work of reconciliation if you were willing to give that gift.

Here are some general signs of a remorseful WS:

I believe You currently no where near have a remorseful wife in front of you. If you did, you would know it.

- She would be inconsolable with the thought of how she was the cause of so much pain to the person she loves most in the world.

- she would be begging to know what she could do to make it right.

- for you she would want to let everyone know it was her that screwed up, not you.

- she would want to read books on how to support her BS. She proactively orders them and starts reading. She actively discussed what she is reading

- she would be in IC as much as possible to figure out what went wrong with her and how she could do this to the person she loves most in the world. She proactively schedules this for herself and also proactively asks her therapist for IC recommendations for you to help you deal with the pain she has caused.

- she would feel your pain more than her own and put your happiness ahead of hers.

- she will gladly answer your questions at any time day or night with no objections

- she would write you a letter of apology highlighting how she must have made you feel

- she would focus most on your well being, ignoring her own

- she would realize what the OM really is and start being sick at the thought of him/her. She would start calling him/her names like POS for how he helped her destroy her life.

- They show remorse thru actions, not words. Examples of this could be that they proactively prepared a written timeline of what happened and are as thorough and factual as they can be.

- Other examples are: They book a polygraph when you are available to attend. And they buy a GPS tracker for their car so they can give you peace of mind. They sell something of value to only them to pay for these things so the cost doesn't come from your joint funds (e.g. Collectibles or jewelry or exercise equipment).

If they are only showing Regret and not Remorse then they will only be giving you words, not actions: e.g. "I'm so sorry. But you can trust me now. I promise you I've told you the whole truth: e.g. "You can trust me now. I love you. It didn't mean anything. I know I messed up - do you forgive me? I was so stupid, but I've learned from my mistakes. It's in the past now and we can move forward. I love you more now than I ever have. I promise it will never happen again, can we move on?"

Finally. THE EFFORT PUT INTO RECONCILIATION! If the betrayer doesn't work harder at repairing the relationship than they did to damage it, it isn't going to work no matter if you stay together or not. They need to be working harder at R than you are.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:45 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

but doesn't it kinda seem like your allowing them to carry on with the A

She'd be doing that anyway wouldn't she? What you are doing is shutting the door behind her, eliminating her options to return, removing you as Plan B. It forces her to be all or none with her new OM, the OM that may be in serious trouble, and a life with no income, or home, or family.

She's starting texting me more than just one line texts now.

She keeping her foot in the door, just in case.

Slam it on her toes!

You are absolutely correct. No sign of remorse as of yet. Only a week into me being back in the house, but no remorse. I guess it will take him completely dumping her and me to continue the 180

Also, She's starting texting me more than just one line texts now. Actual conversations about daily stuff, like grocery runs etc. I answer back in one to three word responses.

Don't respond to texts that aren't about kids or finances. So if she is telling you about running late, and the boss being mean, and her lunch. No need to reply. If she asks you if you like her new hair cut... no need to reply. If she writes you a long chatty email then includes a question about pick up/drop off of one of the kids. You respond only to that part of the message.

As far as the ignoring the Elephant in the room (the affair). She wants you to take notice. If you were to start picking up her phone and checking it in front of her... she knows you still Care. Right now you are seeking indifference. You know the affair is still going on it's up to her to prove that it's not... and not by dropping hints. Talking about the affair with her gives her the idea that you still care...that you are still fighting for her. If you are still fighting for her she can keep cake eating. If OM is NC and you are indifference she is going to have to WORK.

I agree with others. I see zero remorse from her so far. I see regret as in she regrets how HER actions are causing HER problems in her life but I have yet to see anything in your posts about she being remorseful about the pain she has caused you. When what she has done to you is a bigger priority to her than how it's negatively impacting herself then she is remorseful. She's not there.

What was this packet you had her sign? Divorce papers? If not I suggest you have them served. The process can be stopped any time if a remorseful wife shows up.

Only thing she needs to know besides talking about kids and finances is "I will not remain in a marriage with someone who doesn't love me and is in love with someone else. We have nothing else to discuss about our relationship ".

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:41 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

One question- I understand the indifferent attitude of the 180, but doesn't it kinda seem like your allowing them to carry on with the A? Maybe not allowing but just could care less if they do?

If she does then you'll know she's not truly remorseful. The WS who wants to repair the damage they've done, fix their marriage, etc is not going to carry on the affair just because you do the 180. If so then you know where they stand anyway.

Also, She's starting texting me more than just one line texts now. Actual conversations about daily stuff, like grocery runs etc. I answer back in one to three word responses. Is that ok to do?

Unless it's related to finances, divorce, or the kids you shouldn't be responding to any of that period.

[This message edited by JS84 at 9:42 AM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

There's been a lot of 180 talk recently in this thread, so I just wanted to clarify what the 180 is, and what it is not.

It is NOT a form of punishment for your wife. Nor is it a tactic design to cause her to stop her A or magically become remorseful.

The 180 IS for you. It's to allow you to detach. To show you that you can be whole and thrive without your WS. That whether you D or R, YOU will be okay. When you stop engaging in the drama and madness, you start living and being kind to yourself. We are so wrapped up in our M's that we can forget how to be responsible for our own happiness and well being. The 180 helps you rediscover that.

Now a happy consequence of the 180 is that many times the WS gets shocked by the change in your attitude. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. When a WS sees that you are happy and are no longer reliant upon them, it can be a real wake up call. You no longer NEED them. And the realization that they have lost their hold on you can be very scary and sobering.

Then, only then, when you are of a healthy mind, will you be able to decide D or R depending on where your WS is. And you'll make that determination from a place of calm and strength. Not from fear or depression. And that is very empowering.

So with that in mind, that should answer most questions about engaging with your wife. And go do something fun for yourself. On your own or with a friend (I took a week long trip to Arizona with my best friend). Golf, bowl, hunt, hike, fish, whatever floats your boat. Have a good time. It's not just about acting a certain way, it's about being good to you for a change.

Sending strength.

I got caught up on your thread and had a couple reiterations.

OrdinaryDude - "Kick her ass out of your bedroom and take it back!!!"

Ditto. This is YOUR house. She sleeps on the couch. She keeps her clothing and bathroom items in her suitcase or in a guest closet. She's a temporary visitor. Move her and her 'things' out of YOUR bedroom.

Freeme - "When she does, and goes ape S---... you should steer her toward the apt she rented but keep the kids here with you."

Ditto. You keep the kids and the primary home. She moves out, not you. It's your house and your things. She traded the house and family for the OM.

Gw5263 - "But the realist in me knows this can go nowhere any more. She's in too deep."

That realist is on target. You're going to continue to have feelings for the way it was before she detonated your world but that world doesn't exist anymore. You have to build a new and better one.

Gw5263 - "The kids are 13 and 14. My 13 year old has aspbergers autism and change affects him hard. She took none of this or any of our feelings in account when she started talking to this bastard"

I had 4 young kids at home when my ex mowed us all down with her choices. It was hard on the kids but they're glad that I was honest with them. We were also able to help each other cope.

OrdinaryDude - "...make sure you keep them in the loop as much as possible, and don't lie to them and hide their mother's actions, your oldest is certainly mature enough to know and understand the truth."

Ditto. The kids can surprise you with their resilience and insights.

twisted - "She has figured out her best play is to stay invisible and quite, hoping you will give in"

Ditto. I have to echo what others are saying. It seems like she might be just laying low until she and the OM can get back together. Her behavior is not comforting.

Gw5263 - "I answer back in one to three word responses. Is that ok to do?"

As another poster said, "Yes", do that. Employ the 'Most Conservative Response' rule. Don't get wordy or chatty with her. She's not your friend. At all times treat her like you would a somewhat creepy stranger on the street. Be pleasant/polite but don't share anything personal and don't kick-up a conversation. You have better things to do with your time.

As others have eluded to, indifference is your best friend right now. Take care of yourself.

Just wait when it truly hits the fan with om and the Navy.

om will wish he never met ww.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 12:38 PM, August 29th (Tuesday)]

Started fresh yesterday with the 180. Today I purposely came home from work after I knew she had left for work and I'll sleep all day. Tonight I'm taking the kids out without her.. will see how that works out

Good for you. Stay strong. Just keep saying in your head. You and your children deserve better.

C

No new advice. Just want you to know I think you are doing great.

What is the plan for serving D papers?

GW -

You are going to do GREAT with the 180 today. If you do it great for JUST ONE DAY we are POSITIVE that you will kick ass at it for two days.

Start small and build on that. If you kick ass at the 180 today then you are 100% absolutely sure that you can do it for two days and also that if you break 180 that you'll lose all of the hard work you'll be doing today.

KICK ASS