SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sharkman:

He should have the right to exit an abusive relationship in 0 days if that helps him heal from the abuse better.

Unfortunately it's not that simple as the BH is self employed, and divorce could be devastating for him financially, especially since he relies on her for his health insurance.

I disagree with this:

I have read through your postings and I am wondering WHY the two of you got your parents involved in this mess???

After an affair is discovered, it's important to pull it out from the damp dark corner and expose it to light. It's part of owning your behaviours and choices. It often recommended here in JFO to tell family - especially the wayward's family.

I do suggest to OP that she make extra effort not to play the victim with daddy. You can share - "he won't return my calls" or "he is very angry"...but leave out the nitty gritty, highly charged details that will upset the parents. If you're sharing the unsavoury details then I question your intentions. Are you trying to deflect their attention away from your unsavoury choices by turning them against your H? You should be telling your parents to back off if they aren't going to support their son in law. I will always love my children - no matter the poor choices they make but I am not afraid to hate the choice and let them own that choice.

Very sorry you and your husband are here. Also you AP and his OBS. This is devastating to all involved. Sorry the parents were also brought in. One thing to be thankful for is you had no children. Hope the same for the AP.

So to the point of my post. This may help you with some insight into what your husband may be thinking about some of your responses.

Binging AP to your home.

From what I understand you brought him to the marital home because you thought it would lessen the chance for sex. Your husband is going to think the opposite. If this had been the first time you had sex than maybe I could have seen it as a situation that got out of control. But the fact that you were already in the affair I would not buy this for a moment. Doesn't mean it's not true I'm just not buying it at this point. Also that it was on the couch. In the Motels did you do it on the couch or the bed. Bed I presume. So why the couch and not the bed, I'm sure AP wanted the Bed. I would choose that if available. Last point on the home invasion is as I read it you were wanting to see what it was like to just hang out (the no sex aspect). That to me indicates you were wanting to play house, find out what it would be like to pretend you were 5/10 years down the road and what it would be like to spend an intimate evening with him. Test run if you will for the future. That to me would say you were emotionally bonding/bonded. Even though you are saying that is not the case. On my score card lots of things are not adding up and on the balance sheet things are leaning away from what you are saying. Not saying you are not stating how you actually felt just saying how I am feeling and that is probably how your husband feels.

Pre Affair and Affair relationship with Husband

A few times during your posts you have started to say somethings about your marriage not being perfect and maybe that may have been why you cheated. While you never went there you started to open that door a couple of times. So I was just wondering how was your relationship. Were you intimate the same prior to the affair as during? The questioned usually asked, did you do things with the AP you were not willing to do with your husband? Were you denying him sex? During the year and half EA/PA did you put more into the A relationship with the AP then you did your husband and M? During this time was your husband (trying to) spending time with you? Date nights: dinner, clubs, walks? Once a week or once a month. Did your time with the AP take away or interfere with your time with the husband? If he was doing his part and you are the one making excuses to be with the OM instead of him he may think even at my best she still left. Meaning this AP may be gone but how about the next guy. Also you don't need to respond here but he will ask was the AP better in bed than him. The common WW answer is no but common BS response is then why keep going back and for a year, holly hell!

You can't leave him hanging on these points. They will fester and even get worse. You have to tell him the ugly truth so he can heal. If your goal is to help him heal then tell him the whole truth. If nothing else he will respect you for that. Even if it hurts him more he will not have those terrible conflicting thoughts. He needs to understand and right now his thoughts/conclusions are probably not aligning with your words. Again not saying your words are false but this is how he may be seeing them.

I wish you the best. I hope you understand I am trying to help you see things as your husband is seeing/feeling them. The truth is the answer, always.

[This message edited by SpoonInTheRoad at 6:04 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

I'll say one thing...you're showing courage...some posts were harsh, true but harsh and you took the time to respond. Of course you are still struggling with wayward attitudes and behavior, but which one of us hasn't?...maybe some here were better at it, I know I kept on lying to my partner, minimizing, you name it, I did it! And then I realized that the only way she would start believing I was telling the truth was to really tell her the details I had kept or modified to try (I thought)to hurt her less. I told her that no the sex with the OW was not mediocre as I had said, but that it was always satisfying and that she (OW) was very skilled. I told her that there was very often passion, misguided yes, but passion anyway. I told her everything! Raw! It hurt her deeply...and at the same time, a few weeks later she said that that day she felt that for the 1st time I was sincere.

Now, what my full disclosure did to me cannot be said in words, but I'll try. After those words left my lips, I realized the enormity of my betrayal. The truth once said hit me like a truck and for the next week or so, I walked around like a zombie, wondering why I was allowed to breathe, that the level of ugliness I had reached I did not know existed, yet I had reached it.

I had for weeks, a knot of self-hate inside of me that I had never had before or since. I knew then I was remorseful.

If you've kept any details, revealing them may help both of you.

Good luck and keep posting no matter how hard it is.

[This message edited by machiavel55 at 6:28 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

Hang in there.

Is it too early to send him a love note? . . . some excuse for a small present? . . . a card? Some way of showing the positive things you feel towards him.

Now life may seem full of regret, remorse, pain, and other emotions which you try and express. Maybe also reach for some of the positive emotions you feel. If you'll always love him no matter what . . . let him know, even if he doesn't believe it yet.

Sorry about some BS's who get harsh. Sometimes they've come from a marriage where the WS didn't want to listen or understand . . . and so when they find a WS who is willing to listen and try and understand, they may inadvertently unload a bit. Hopefully they still offer good advice, and at the very least, they always offer excellent insight into what your love may be feeling.

Wishing you and your husband great strength, compassion, patience, understanding, and love for the future. I hope you can make this work.

[This message edited by c24j at 7:18 PM, August 7th (Monday)]

Sassylee - I think they both shared way too much information with their parents. The damage is done. They both seem close to their families and this is going to make any attempt at R so much harder. It sounds like his Mom despises her and she runs to her parents for sympathy. It is a very immature response on each side. I agree that exposure is good, but to the right people. Way too much dirty laundry was aired out to immediate family members.

CantEatCantSleep: This is going to be my final response. I will be honest with you. When I read your initial post I found you to be quite articulate and was almost convinced you were remorseful to a point (but was not sure if it was because you got caught) So I was still somewhat skeptical. I was right about my skepticism after knowing/learning much more: You having OM in your home in order to see what it would be like to just spend time with him and not having sex. As others seem to agree with me this act was one of you behaving like a couple seriously dating and seemingly focusing on being together exclusively. It was clearly an indication of your emotional bonding and your long term future fantasy or the reality that you would leave your husband to be with OM as your new partner.

I say the above without any doubt after being aware of your intention in writing; of planning to be with OM. You denied it when I brought this up earlier only to discover that you lied in your follow up response to me. I now know exactly what you wrote to OM. Did you forget or did you just plan to continue lying? You know how much you poured out your heart to POSOM about wanting to be with him and how much you loved him. Why not just be totally honest? How much worse can this situation get. Your BH now knows you cheated for a whole year even when he might have suspected something and felt uncomfortable about you and OM's relationship at the onset, but you played innocent and naive up to the last moment knowing well what youand he planned on doing.Don't kid yourself all of what happened was not sudden. You knew what was coming.

I am not a fool, I've been there and frankly I plead with you to stop this fakeness and come clean on this forum and thus you might avoid the harshness you are experiencing and ultimately get some help here. I believe commenters will call you out for your dishonesty and lack of candor.

You cannot express the things you put in writing to OM without being in love and planning a life with him for a year and then when caught you change your tune -you mmediately turn off your emotions from OM in less than 12 hours, deflecting all your emotions and undying love. Those of us who read your post are not in the fantasy phase or being delusional. A spade is a spade- is a spade. I plead for you to try and be as totally honest in all of this. If it leads to R great and if it leads to divorce so be it. I think your fear of divorcing and losing everything (your marriage/your image/social standing/finances) is driving you to be less than forthcoming. Granted you painted a damn good picture but unfortunately you withheld a lot of crucial information, which others including myself might be learning.

Your BH for these reasons might dig his heels in because you are not speaking honestly/truthfully and you therefore will only further sabotage any hope for R. Saying you are Sorry is just not enough -thats pretty shallow IMO.

Am I angry with you? No I am not. I am disturbed that you fail to grasp the enormity of your actions- your affair, and you are likely still taking BH for granted by spinning the obvious. This will never go away until you address it head on. The fact that your parents (by your own post) are seemingly defending/minimizing the infidelity and supporting you is a roadblock to any Reconciliation. If they really wanted to help save your marriage they should not be involved and be controlled in what they say period (tihs goes for BH as well).

I will continue to follow this thread but will no longer comment, until you embrace total honesty because to me without your honesty its futile.

I understand the need to question and push WSes who come here fresh out of D-Day to REALLY dig into themselves, their motivations and etc, and the positive goals of doing that (if they want R) - I have to say I'm just a little uncomfortable with the idea of taking things that are being said in another thread in JFO to use against her here and accuse her of lying. And I'm saying this AS a BS myself.

She came here for support, to try and get advice that would lead her to make clearer decisions and figure out how she allowed all this to happen. She's posting here, she's taking the 2x4's, she's opened her thread to BSes, she's in IC, she's doing the reading, she's TRYING. That's what I see...she's trying. Is it genuine? It's early days, time will tell.

Some of the things about her story vs what she's saying now don't make sense, but how often do we allow on ALL sides for the fact that a WS isn't thinking clearly during an A? Not that it's an excuse (again - BS here, I'm not on board for excuses) but I do believe that WSes CAN and DO look back at what they said and did during their A's and think - wtf? None of that was real, in the end. Why did I do this? I don't recognize who I was. And yes - while it ends up looking disingenuous to a BS that it only happened once the affair was outed, I actually DO believe that the A being outed is a bucket of cold water that can, and often does, snap someone out of it very quickly.

Not everyone believes this is possible, and yes her affair might have gone on and she might not have told her BH if she hadn't been caught but it went down the way it went down, and she's coming here for help in trying to navigate the sh*t sandwich she made as it IS, not as it should have been. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. We ALL have those.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but...well, I had surgery today and am currently making good use of the Norco they gave me for the pain, lol. My filter is thin. Forgive me.

I don't get insincerity from her posts - on the contrary, I personally feel real regret coming through, and maybe real remorse once she gets further along in doing the work. Yes, she created the problem and then made it worse with TT and deleting messages etc - but this is why we have the Wayward forum, isn't it? I didn't think it was for a WS seeking support to have to defend themselves in their OWN thread against people who are also reading their BS's post in another forum? I'm just a little wary of this becoming a pile-on in two separate threads/forums. She came here and registered to get help. That's something.

CantSleepCantEat - I'm thinking about you, will be following your thread and I hope you get the answers you're seeking and accomplish what you're trying to do, no matter what happens. Next time maybe I'll have actual useful advice - as soon as I'm not sore and a little high (LEGALLY, just to clarify, lol).

PS - even though this puts me out of commission on this thread, maybe you should think about asking the mods to put up a stop sign if you're starting to feel super-discouraged. You'd get more advice from Waywards that might be more helpful to you as you try and navigate how to successfully address your own issues and 'whys'. :)

[This message edited by beauchateaux at 12:44 AM, August 8th (Tuesday)]

Very few waywards come here fresh from dday with their shit together. After spending a good period lying and protecting themselves - honesty, transparency and remorse are not immediate.

Keep posting Canteatcantsleep...and don't lose sleep over a member's declaration that they won't respond until you meet their terms lol - you'll find support here regardless - even if its some hard truths from reformed waywards...sometimes they're tougher than us BS's (because they're allowed to be).

Right now youre trying to fix things so you can save your marriage. Stop. Let go of the outcome - whether your husband divorces or reconciles - you just need to be honest and authentic and become healthy for the sake of becoming healthy. Don't operate with an end result in mind. Just let go...do the work - examine those icky things you'd rather look away from...that's where you'll find direction.

First off, I want to thank everyone for the recent shift in tone. The recent responses feel more thoughtful and constructive than several received a couple of days ago, and I appreciate it.

NamasteGirl10 - I told my parents both because BH wanted me to as a sign that I was owning what I had done, and also because I needed the support. He told his because he did not feel comfortable telling our friends, and he needed someone to talk to.

I don't think we could have kept it from them, because love is about respecting those around you enough to be transparent and honest with them...and we both love our parents. With my (newfound) commitment to living honestly, there wasn't really an option other than to tell them. I couldn't start my journey of honesty with a lie.

That being said, I agree that they are making this mess much harder to navigate, but it isn't quite as bad as you think. BH and I did not have plans on having children, and our parents live thousands of miles from us (and each other). We only see each set a couple of times a year (sometimes less), and they have only met each other a couple of times, total.

Breadfruit1 - I would caution against extrapolating from a single evening (which I've admitted to regretting immediately) that I was planning to end my marriage and run off with OM/AP, simply because of the location and the fact that I said I didn't want sex. I don't say that to minimize anything -- I've already said it was incredibly disrespectful and increased the level of the betrayal -- but I think it falls short of "proof of intent". If I were interested in running off with OM/AP, I could have. Still could, most likely. He wants/wanted me to. BH has tried to push me to, occasionally, since DDay. But I haven't. And the reason for that is very simple - I don't want to, and I have never wanted to. Even if BH decides to leave me, I will not be answering any attempts OM/AP makes to contact me.

Yes, I turned off the security camera. I did it because I hadn't told BH that OM/AP was coming over. If he saw, he would get upset - of course - and so I turned it off as a precaution.

I'm not sure it matters, but AP/OM and I saw each other often without sex. Even with that being the case, and even in my fogged brain, I knew there was no way an evening of "nothing" would happen in a hotel. I'm confident you know that, too, if you think about it.

My reaction to the text message incident is regrettable. I did not handle that well, and I think my prior responses in this thread highlight that I'm aware of that. BH and I have discussed it multiple times since it happened, and I have expressed to him that I understand I was wrong and that I am sorry for getting defensive.

Harrybrown - If I were upset with BH, maybe this would make more sense, but I wasn't. Or, I suppose I am not aware of being upset. I really just wasn't thinking about how it would impact him. I know that's terrible. Worse than terrible, really.

Unfortunately, if we D I will not stay in the state. I moved out here for him, and stayed here for him. I don't like my job. All of our friends are his friends, first. If we D, there would be nothing keeping me here, and I imagine winning him back would be difficult from thousands of miles away. That is part of what makes the stakes feel so high - if we split, there is a real chance we will never see each other again.

Thank you for the wishes of luck - I can use all of them I can get.

Hopeful30 - The stories my parents hear are from me. Telling them helps me to work through my feelings about things that happen, and process them in a constructive way. This was especially true and important before I had found an IC. Sometimes, the processing comes from telling my parents that they have it wrong. (Similar to a religious person whose faith is strengthened when they find themselves having to defend it.)

Sharkman - The 90 day suggestion was mine, based on several things I had read that indicated it was a bad idea to make life-changing decisions in the midst of a traumatic event. BH absolutely has the right to leave at any point. I have not prevented him from doing so, and when he has said he would like to start filing the paperwork for D, even in advance of the 90-day mark, I told him I would cooperate (he has not acted upon it, as of yet). His mind hasn't been made up - One day, he tells me he wants to start the paperwork. Other days, he says things about how maybe not filing paperwork and living as roommates would be ok, so he could keep his healthcare and the house. If he changes his mind day-to-day, he shouldn't be deciding anything until it settles.

I know I don't get to decide the grounds for R. I don't even get to decide if R is a considered possibility. I'm not asking for that. I want it, don't get me wrong. But I'm not asking for it. What I am asking for is that BH wait to make a decision one way or the other, until he can be somewhat objective about the possible outcomes of each and be confident that he made the right choice.

Limboaz - Yes, you are correct that there are financial considerations. BH gets his health insurance through my company, and I pay for it. That would be a substantial addition to his monthly expenses, if he had to get healthcare on his own.

SassyLee - I agree with you on all counts. In the text that started the all of this, what I said was (and I quote):

"Dad, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. How could I get myself into this mess? I had it so easy, and I threw it away..."

I hope that helps to show that I am not attempting to deflect attention, or turn them against BH. All I said was that I was struggling with the consequences of the bad decisions I'd made.

SpoonInTheRoad - I very much appreciate the thoroughness of your reply, and the time it must have taken to write it. Thank you.

Regarding the "inside the home" issue - I am going to try to explain, but forgive me if it is a bit convoluted.

I did not intend for sex, as I mentioned. If I had known that was going to happen, I would have not invited AP over. The rationale for that whole night is complicated and I'm sure I won't do it justice, but since it seems to be a sticking point I will try.

This happened within the last few weeks of the A. I had already started to really think about if it had run its course. I, stupidly, wanted to stay friends with AP. (I realize now that would never work.) He had been looking forward to getting to spend more time with me in the week BH was out of town, and I didn't want to disappoint him, but I also didn't want sex. Maybe some part of me wanted to see what "just friends" would be like (for the ridiculous scenario in my head where we end the A and manage to be friends after), but if that was the case I wasn't aware of it at the time. If I was "imagining" anything, it was what life would be like after the A was over, not what it would be like to run off with AP and make it a reality. I am not saying that's what was going on - I only mention it as a subconscious possibility. I also didn't want to go out because my pets had been alone all day, with me at work and BH gone.

So, I didn't want to go out and leave the animals, I didn't want to go out and have sex with AP, and I was starting to consider ending the A...but AP wanted to see me. I "compromised" and told him he could come over and watch TV with me, if he wanted. I wasn't entirely comfortable with having AP over that night. Even as I did it, it made me uneasy. The PA had been going for over 6 months and he had never set foot inside our home -- for good reason.

He comes over, we watch TV for a couple of hours, and then things escalate to the place any reasonably intelligent person knows they would. I honestly can't say whether AP wanted us to move upstairs to the bed - he didn't ask, and I didn't offer. Had he asked, I would have said no. Even in the foggiest of fog, that was a line I wasn't willing to cross.

As a result of that evening, when AP asked if he could come over the next night (wanting to spend the night, this time), I told him no. We had a conversation about how I felt weird about him being in the house, and that I didn't think it was a good idea for him to come back.

I thought there was an emotional connection with AP, at one point. In the middle of the A, I would have said there was. I liked talking to him. AP called me his best friend. But if the emotions I thought I felt were real...then I'd miss him. And I don't. I expected to - my understanding is that most WS's do. But I don't. And that -- on top of the fact that even in the middle of the A, when everything was blindingly bright, I never considered leaving BH -- is the clearest evidence to me that anything I thought I was feeling for AP was a mirage.

I hope that helps to add some color to the situation. You are perfectly within your rights to "not buy it" - I realize it isn't a tidy narrative. But it's the only true one I've got, so I have no choice but to keep telling it.

Regarding the relationship with BH -

This is a question I am surprised no one has asked me, yet. It's a thoughtful one, and I appreciate it. My relationship with BH was not why I cheated. My weaknesses and fractures as a person are the only reason why. I was happy with BH, truly.

However, I did not appreciate him.

I was having a confidence crisis at work, which I suspect might have plunged me into a depressive episode. As a result, my libido tanked. BH got tired of being rejected (understandably), and decided that he was no longer going to initiate intimacy. As far as I am aware, he never reversed that decision.

Unfortunately, we share similar challenges when it comes to communicating our feelings, though through slightly different means. What I mean by that is that BH doesn't like to talk about emotions, and I don't like to acknowledge that I have them. I wasn't talking to him about my mental health struggles, and he didn't communicate with me that he had decided to no longer approach me for intimacy.

I was still struggling with the issues at work, and now I had confidence issues at home, as well. BH isn't a traditionally demonstrative person - he doesn't give compliments or say ILY, basically ever. He isn't "touchy". His love language is Acts of Service, but I didn't know that, then. I didn't realize all of the nice things he was doing for me were the way he was showing me he loved me and that he cared. I just felt the withdrawal of the physical, and felt like he didn't want me, anymore.

With the clarity, understanding, and appreciation I now have of the relationship I had, I am certain I had something better than I realized. But we had communication issues, and those allowed us to become disconnected. I feel like that disconnect and the crises of confidence contributed to why I allowed myself to get involved in an A.

To answer your questions specifically:

No, I did not do things with AP that I was not willing to do with BH. BH's tastes are rather vanilla - more so than mine, anyway - so I can't think of a time when I have denied him anything.

No, I was not denying BH sex during the A (as far as I know) -- I believe by the time the A had started, BH had stopped asking altogether.

I am not sure about the effort question. It was a bit of a sliding scale, I suppose. I was trying to keep multiple plates spinning at the same time, and so I was always giving attention to whichever one seemed like they needed it. At the beginning, BH definitely got more attention and effort. By the late-middle, AP was demanding more of it. By the end, I had told AP I needed to prioritize the "real" things in my life, and it was back to BH.

Yes, during this time BH was trying to spend time with me. I was so drained from the lies and deception that I could only take him up on it some of the time. Date nights were usually my suggestion, though.

Yes, time with AP took away from time with BH. I tried to minimize this by spending time with AP either over my lunch break or when BH was going to be busy, but there were many, many times where I would meet AP after work for a little while instead of going home to BH immediately.

BH and I have talked about the "better in bed" question. That's a bit of a mixed bag, if I'm being honest. I'll leave it at that, but suffice it to say that we have discussed this point.

THANK YOU for your insight and your time. It means so much, and I assure you I appreciate it.

machiavel55 - I believe I understand a little bit what you are referring to. Some version of it hit me when I starting putting together the timeline of all the "I did"s for BH. Every awful thing I did, every time I put AP before him. Every time I lied. Every time I chose to spit on the life we built together...I couldn't look at BH without bursting into tears, and the rest of the time I was numb from self-hatred. It sneaks up on me, now - at my desk at work, on the drive home (not safe), in the early morning - I am not in touch with my feelings, as a general rule, so it comes in fits and starts.

Thank you for the wishes of good luck. I had considered leaving, when things turned ugly. I felt like the conversation was no longer productive, and I don't think it's to anyone's benefit that I spend all of my time defending and clarifying my past actions. I'm here to get assistance with how to look forward, and it felt like I was being pulled violently backwards. BH even asked me if I wanted him to stop posting, so the venom would stop, but I think it's important he take advantage of every resource for support.

But, I am resolved to stay. The venom is teaching me humility and providing practice for not getting defensive, both of which are lessons I value.

c24j - Thank you for your kind words. Because of the role letters played in the A, BH is not open to receiving them. I've been going out of my way to show him my investment and make things easier for him, when I can, but our physical separation makes it hard. In the meantime, I am doing what I can -- which is all I can do.

Breadfruit1 - As always, I appreciate your response and your level of passion, but I am afraid I can't give you what you are looking for, because I only have the version of the truth I know, and I've already told it to you. You seem convinced that what I've said is a lie, and are demanding I bend my truth to fit the mold you've designed, but I can't. I've spent too much of my life lying to myself, and acquiescing to the wants of others. Those are the behaviors that got me into this mess, and I refuse to continue them now.

Even if being honest is messy, and nonsensical, and inconsistent. Even if it makes you upset. Unfortunately for me, messy, nonsensical truth is my reality.

I don't expect you to understand, but I would appreciate that you not declare you know my feelings better than I do. It greatly oversimplifies the situation to assume you have all the answers after reading a few posts on a message board.

I don't begrudge you your feelings - I'm sure someone hurt you, and it's still very raw - but you seem determined to paint me in the worst possible light -- as though you personally feel betrayed by me because of your original thoughts that I might be sincere.

I think it is probably for the best that you don't respond anymore, especially if you are not going to believe what I say. I have no reason to lie here, but I also have no means by which to convince you that I am telling the truth. If you are unwilling or unable to believe me or at least be thoughtful with your responses (as opposed to accusatory), then the interaction is going to benefit neither of us.

I'm sorry for whatever so clearly triggered you about me. I hope you find peace and healing.

beauchateaux - I read your response and I nearly cried -- responses like yours validate the decision to leave the stop sign off. Thank you for every single word of this. I can't tell you how much I needed it. I have definitely felt piled on, in the last few days. It's been difficult to keep taking it on the chin, time and time again. Thank you for the support - I AM trying. I know I still have a lot of work to do, and it's going to take a long time, but I'm determined. I appreciate your recognition of the effort.

sassylee - This is advice I remind myself of constantly. I still forget, sometimes, but my IC is helping with it. I am more comfortable doing so now that BH has resources to help him - when he was on his own, I couldn't truly focus on myself without feeling like I was abandoning him.

Can't sleep,

My heart goes out to you and your H. You did make some very bad choices and decisions. I am confident that you have apologized over and over for these. I have always stated that actions speak louder than words. You know your H better than anyone else. Do you know his love languages? My wife and I have been through some very trying times and the book Love Languages helped us navigate the minefields with less damage that what would have been the case without.

This being said, use your knowledge of his love languages to communicate to him your Truth and your Resolve to right this. It is up to him to hear and receive. Stay the course, your A lasted 6 months if I remember correctly, don't give up anything short of twice this time as the M deserves this level of commitment.

He needs to hear your resolve to mend his heart and give him peace that you're committed to him and what a travesty the A was. No excuses etc...you know what I am saying.

My guess is that he is struggling with the "how to accept / put this back together" and he doesn't know how to do that. You can be the vessel to do that with him. Maybe coffee one Saturday, just coffee and no additional expectation etc. gradual steps to let him know how much you do care and with actions only, no letter (that'll be a trigger). What is his favorite cafe? Send him a gift certificate for two, tell him you would like to join him just for a lunch or dinner. Tell him this is what you're going to be doing as it is all you can with the limited contact that you have. Tell him that you would like more time to demonstrate to him your commitment but no pressure as you know he's hurting beyond what you can imagine.....I hope this helps.

My prayers and positive wishes are sent for both of you.

If you were planning on ending the affair,and if you just planned on hanging out as friends, and didn't intend to have sex with him in your home, in your husband's home, then why did you? When OM started to make his move,why didn't you shut him down? Or did you make the first move?

Have you scheduled a polygraph?

I see a lot of my wife in you after DDay. Her affair was very short lived although I am sure it would have gone on much longer, possibly years if not caught.

Like you from the outside we were fine. Hell I was fine and didn't suspect anything was wrong. She to this day agrees and blames her actions on a misplaced need for some excitement.

The fact we were good makes the betrayal even harder. She couldn't point to one thing except maybe I shouldn't have played as much golf for her actions

She too used the marital home for the affair. She swore on our children that they didn't use the bed. That of course was a lie. If you are holding anything back on this I implore you to come clean. My wife didn't tell me as she felt we were hanging by a thread and this would push me over. Frankly it might have, but finding out later was much worse.

It is scary but you need to get everything out. If you had sex on the same days, other times in the house, friends who were complicit. You have an AP who is still not done. There is a very good chance he contacts your BS and spills the goods. You better do it before he does

One last thing is I too have the feeling you are minimizing your actions. I brought him into the house not thinking about sex, I was about to end the affair, I never felt much for him when everything points in the other direction, these sound disingenuous. Best to strip down and just tell you BS why you really did things without trying to explain them away. It still may not be enough, like in my case. But it is the best shot you have.

I hope you can do this

CantSleep,

I don't believe anyone doubts your sincerity to want to make it up to your BS, and your sincere desire to reconcile.

I think it's clear that you have been very forthcoming in telling the truth about what happened. Where I think you may be holding back is in regards to the depth of your feelings for your AP.

Most of us BS's learn quickly to look at actions over words. The one thing that sticks out in my mind is how it just happened by coincidence that you cut your BH off from sex at the same time the affair was heating up. This makes it look like you had shifted your love and primary loyalty to AP at that time. Combine that with the ILY's and the time you were carving out for him, and it looks like you really did love him, albeit likely in an affair fantasy kind of way.

I could be wrong, and if I am I apologize, but just be aware that any rug sweeping or minimizing of your feelings could sabotage your chances of R.

I really hope you can salvage your marriage. Your BH should think about how motivated you are to save the marriage. You seem like one of those waywards who would spend the rest of your life making it up to him.

Best of luck to you both.

CSCE:

You described the comparison of sex between the OM and your BH as a "mixed bag".

This is a very painful, yet honest response, so please understand as I peel this back a bit.

I don't know if you can explain this without TMI, but how was it a mixed bag? When you describe the sex life with your BH as "mostly vanilla", this points me towards the line of thought of unexplored fantasies, which I have seen in affairs on this site and the others on which I participate.

Can you help me understand this?

Thanks in advance.

I am just going to select one statement here to highlight why I really think you don't get it.

And it's not like I left BH for AP, and then came crawling back

Yes, you did. You weren't a different person when this all went down, you were you. You made these choices with your eyes open. You are exactly the type of person that would have an affair and not stop the affair before you were forced to. You are exactly the person who intentionally had sex with the AP in your marital home (try and guess what happens when I invite someone over and don't want to have sex with them). You can make all of the word salad that you like, and maybe you will believe some of it, but at the end of the day you did all of these things in full mind.

You really need to make peace with that and work from there. You need to go into IC and bleed your heart out to get to the bottom of how you allowed yourself to do this.

People have affairs for ONE REASON ONLY. They want to.

You are clearly a very articulate person and write very well. It also seems like you are sincere in wanting to fix the mess you made due to your infidelity. I also think it is commendable how you have absorbed some of the very pointed blows and comments folks have put on this thread.

Here are some observations... as other posters have pointed out despite all your very well written posts, your words mean nothing. Only actions matter...

The reason people are struggling with your written affirmations of the affair winding down on its own and that you did not leave your husband are because your actions are inconsistent with your words.

The worst lies and delusions are the ones we try to convince ourselves to believe. While none of are in your head and cannot ever know what was really going on... this is what your actions look like from out here.

You were in a long term, very serious relationship with your affair partner. You were emotionally attached and physically attracted to him. You were perfectly willing to live a double life and would have continued with it had you not been caught.

While you may not have had a specific plan to leave your husband - when you had the affair partner over to your home you were absolutely playing house with him. You may not have had a specific plan to have sex that day - but no one is surprised that it happened. If you though he was coming over to do a slumber party with you - you are lying to yourself. You seem too smart to have honestly believed or anticipated that sex wasn't going to happen.

The issue of your letter to the affair partner is hard to get around. That rally sums up what you though and felt... all your words now cannot change that.

I am a huge advocate of trying reconciliation. You seem to have the beginnings and basic building tools to attempt it. However - you need to start from a place of brutal honesty with yourself and with your husband. It may be painful but a true reconciliation to happen you need to peel away the last bits of self delusion and move forward.

My wife had to peel a lot of layers of self image away and completely rewire her self image and thinking process. It was a painful and frustrating g process for her... but eventually she had to admit that she had spent most of her life being greedy, self centered, shallow and extremely insecure.

I am not saying that is what you are... that was what my wife had to figure out to start her rebirth into the better person she is today.

Right now your description of the affair (and let's be honest the big chunks you left out) are very telling that you have much, much, much more to dig into and that you are still trying to finds ways to make it less "bad" that what it was.

Like I said... none of us are in your head so no one outside can ever really know what was going on in there. But as long as your actions at the time are inconsistent with the words you try to use to explain them away now... your betrayed husband (and frankly anyone following your thread) is going to struggle mightily to reconcile those two very different versions of the same events...

On a positive note... my most sincere and best hopes for a successful reconciliation. It will hard, it will be a lot of work and it take a long time. It can can absolutely be worth it!

CantEatCantSleep - in your original first post on this thread, you mentioned that you don't want to waste your time if real R may not be possible. Please keep in mind that there are never any guarantees. Your BH may decide to offer the gift of R and then one or two years down the road decide that it is just not working out for him. Even if you have changed and became a better and safer partner. You have to be prepared for this. Whatever changes you make, please make them for yourself so that you can become a healthier partner in this marriage or any future relationship.

[This message edited by NamasteGirl10 at 12:11 PM, August 8th (Tuesday)]

Can'tEatCantSleep:

In your search for for "Why?", it seems that many don't want to admit to an old fashioned concept; Lust. The AP was sexually attractive to you in some way, you two were working closely, the sex in your marriage was unsatisfactory, and you decided to have sex with this attractive man because you wanted to. There is no need for all the psychobabble that I see on this site. You were in need, you were weak, and he was there. Why beat around the bush? Women don't seem to want to admit to the fact that they feel lust just as much as men. I guess they don't want to admit to having such crass feelings. Then they would have to admit to something darker than, "I had feelings for him". They would have to admit to the tawdriness of their actions. They can't stand to be seen as being "that kind of girl". Its drilled into them from childhood. Well, the survival of the species depends on the act being as pleasurable as possible. Add to the fact that affair sex is more exciting and fun because of the danger factor and you have your answer to "Why". Admit your weakness in this and stop dragging it out so you two can go on to healing no matter if the outcome is in your favor or not. I also feel that your keeping his love letters in a shoebox so that you could save them forever so you could look back on this chapter of your life with pleasure even though "you were never going to leave" (right?) reeks of a kind of "Bridges of Madison County" mindset. A decent woman is swept off her feet for a secret romantic break from the boring marriage. As long as your clueless husband never found out, "what he doesn't know won't hurt him" and you could keep this pleasurable memory to the grave. I personally would like to see some sort of R for you two, (I think its clear that you both love each other) but your actions, the length of the affair, the fact that you were not really ending the affair, even using your husband's home for a hangout, and the fact that you took your soulmate for granted, may have done too much damage to the love you knew would always be there. You have emotionally castrated him. The only way to rebuild him is to totally submit to healing him (instead of yourself) in every way. If you can't bring yourself to do that, there may be no hope. Tell him everything and be honest. You have nothing to lose. Good luck.

[This message edited by skerzoid at 2:07 PM, August 8th (Tuesday)]