SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

CantSleep

Just to make one point. You said you have to be careful what you say because you feel everything you say is being scrutinized.

He IS scrutinizing your every word. You lied and led a double life. You broke every bit of trust he has ever had in you and your words. Anything you say is going to be viewed through that lens of his. He will want to know why he should believe you now when so many times you looked him in the eyes and lied to his face without any hesitation or second thought. He's looking for inconsistencies in your story. As long as there are inconsistencies he cannot make sense and process it in his own mind.

Believe me when I say this. Inconsistency or partial truth can kill any chance of R. Your BH will see it as either you are lying or your just not being completely open and honest with him.

You sound very sincere. I hope all works out for you and your BH

My husband scrutinized everything i said for years...and he told me i so blindsided him...that he had to listen closely for any warning or sign that i was cheating again.

Rebuilding trust takes a long time...and i have learned that it is not just what you say...but how you act.

For a long time i did not say things the right way for him to feel safe...but my actions spoke for me. He knew that i was all in...I was committed...and I was trying very hard to be the wife he deserved.

Keep plugging away....

Thanks, everyone.

I have read How To Help Your Spouse Heal After Your Affair, and will make a point to re-read it often, to keep my focus on the right track.

I know I deserve to be scrutinized - I was so good at lying to myself, rationalizing my behavior, and compartmentalizing the A that I am pretty sure I need to be, especially right now. Not saying I am tempted - nothing could be less true - but the scrutiny helps keep me accountable to *myself*. If I'm not, then I can't be honest to BH, because I won't have any concept of the truth to begin with.

I've realized I had a habit of being dishonest in many areas of my life, to avoid shame or conflict. Running late because I lost track of time? I'll say I got pulled into a last-minute meeting, so I don't appear as careless as I actually am (as opposed to fessing up and acknowledging I need to be more thoughtful). Someone notices I've lost weight? I'll say I have been focused on beach season, so they don't know I have unhealthy coping mechanisms (as opposed to using it as a wake-up call to get help). Etc... It's been an avoidance tactic for a long time, and the lies of the A is just the most dramatic expression of it.

I am committed to living honestly, now, which has been uncomfortable for me. I don't like admitting the shameful things I've done, because speaking them solidifies their realness. I don't like admitting the negative things I'm feeling, because that makes me vulnerable. I don't like admitting I need help, because it makes me feel weak.

I want to do these things. I NEED to do them. But they are hard. I've made good progress in the last couple of weeks - every time I would normally lie (about anything, to anyone), a voice in my head reminds me of the mess I've gotten myself into, and I don't. No matter how small the lie. I'm discreet when necessary, but I do not deceive. And with BH, there's nothing but absolute honesty, no matter the discomfort or pain (other than the lapses I've already mentioned, and which I'm determined to ensure are the only ones).

On that note - My IC appointment went really well. I wish I would have sought out counseling years ago. Having someone push me to examine the "why" behind my feelings and actions is going to make it much harder for me to self-deny. I'm hoping that, coupled with my true motivation to be honest to myself and others, will break the habit of deception and lead me on a path to self-improvement.

I'm also trying to focus on "working on me" and "helping him heal". It's a delicate balance, though. The IC is for me. I'm also joining a gym and pursuing hobbies to keep me busy and engaged. For him, I'm respecting his wishes that I stay with friends for a while. I'm making a point to take care of the house when I am home for a few hours, so he doesn't have to deal with that on top of everything else he's going through. I'm responsive when he wants to talk, but don't push him to talk when he doesn't want to. I let things be on his terms, while letting him know I'm available and willing to talk whenever he wants to. I'm trying to not think of R as the end goal, but rather getting us both to places of healing. (Knowing that will take a long time.)

Yesterday, he said he was "pessimistic". That seeing happy couples makes him resentful. That I've signed him up for years of unhappiness. I hate that it's all true.

Today, he says he'd like me to stay away from the house for as long as possible, so long as I don't stay in a hotel (he wouldn't trust me, and doesn't want the expense). I'm running out of friends to stay with, but I need to respect his desire for space. He feels so disrespected from the A, I need to demonstrate a commitment to rebuilding it. It just makes it hard to show him I'm being trustworthy and safe when he never sees me...

In the words of my mother: "Life is a bunch of one way streets. You can only move forward and try to reach your destination a new way. The alternatives are digging a rut where you are, or going someplace new. You can only choose your own path."

esterday, he said he was "pessimistic". That seeing happy couples makes him resentful. That I've signed him up for years of unhappiness. I hate that it's all true.

My wife said the same thing in the beginning. That to keep the family together and marriage this was going to be her life now for the rest of her life. It helps to dig deeper into that and talk about what specifically makes him unhappy. For my wife it was the loss of passion. That specialness of being the "only" after wedding vows. I can assure her she is that for me and she is special. My actions proved otherwise and I just can't take that back. I don't blame her. Your husband is still reconciling everything in himself. His own character full of morals and boundaries to assimilate this new marriage and make it worth it to stay with you. It can't be easy for them to jump through the mental gymnastic hoops we expect from them. Yeah we love you but we did this.. Yeah you should stay and feel like if you do you are a doormat. You have to give him time and you will need to realize that if his "unhappiness" is something he can't live with for whatever you find out is lost, to let him go. Because I have seen firsthand what happens to couples that stay together through that type of unhappiness that eventually becomes resentment. My parents (though not from infidelity-from my mother's entitled sickness) and my wife's grandparents (his severe infidelity).

You're right. He has promised not to make any decisions until after 90 days (too short, some people say), but if at that point he isn't interested/willing/able to continue on this difficult journey that I signed us up for, I'll respect his decision and the consequences of my actions.

I hope the slim chance of R is real, but I absolutely recognize that an unhappy marriage is no good for anyone.

Cantsleep, I feel like you are inside my head. We have similar stories and outlooks. Zugzwang's comment about staying and feeling like a doormat hit home. I know my BH often felt like a doormat in our marriage and I pretty much used him as one. I even told him at one point after Dday that I was basically a controlling bitch who never let him have his way. Not healthy for anybody.

I feel your hopelessness also at times, that there is a great chance BH will decide R is not possible. But I also hang onto the hope that I married a truly wonderful and wise human and that he is not taking this decision lightly. It is a lot to ask him to be "ok" with, especially because in my BH's case he has already started and done a good bit of healing work while I was out floundering in my depravity and staying sick. All we can do is our best at this point. A hard pill to swallow but perhaps a very important lesson in letting go of control.

I think the "doormat" thing is a big thing -- reconciling his self-respect and pride to what happened is very challenging for him...maybe impossible.

The latest drama (other than AP's contact on Monday) has to do with our parents. With the exception of our marriage counselor, my therapist, and one friend of mine (the one I am staying with), they are the only people to know what is going on.

And obviously, they are not objective. Not even close. It's important that we both have these support systems, and I honestly don't know what I would do without mine, in all of this...but they might be making it harder to sort things out. My parents want whatever I want, but they don't like how I'm feeling and they are upset that BH isn't interested in making me feel any better. His parents want him to kick my cheating ass out and start over.

Apparently, BH's mother said something this past weekend about wondering why I am "putting him through" MC, and why I won't just leave him for AP, if I care about AP so much. Also, that BH doesn't deserve to be a "fallback" and that he should just give up and move on. Oh, and that he'll be unhappy forever because of what I did.

I don't care about AP. I've been clear about that. Not having him in my life makes me feel like me, again. It's like I lost myself when he was in the picture.

Now that he's gone, I feel like I've regained my clarity and sense of purpose. Like I remember who I am. Of course, I now have to come to terms with adding this horrible ugly thing I did into that understanding, but at least I've come to my senses. And it's not like I left BH for AP, and then came crawling back when AP rejected me -- I've been adamant from DDay that BH was the only one I wanted, and that even if he and I D, that I'm never speaking to AP again. So I'm not sure "fallback" is the right assessment. I don't know if she is saying that because she doesn't know the situation, because she is assuming, or because BH told her some things that aren't true.

On the other side of things, my parents are both very concerned about me becoming a doormat, allowing BH to belittle me forever and losing my sense of self-worth in the process.

I try to explain to them that I have done terrible damage to him, that I need to be there for him during this time, and that I won't let him act this way forever...but of course they are concerned when they hear in my voice day after day that I'm upset. They hear me owning what has been done and interpret it as me beating myself up. They hear stories of BH saying things that upset me and they interpret it as him being vindictive.

BS has my phone and access to everything, and he's upset about some of the things my dad texted me. He says my dad is in "denial" when he says that I must have had reasons for why I did what I did, that I can't let BH's anger turn me into a shell of my former self, and that if BH won't decide to work on fixing the relationship then eventually I need to cut my losses because that's no way to live.

I tried to explain to BH that those messages were sent from a father privately to a suffering daughter, and not to get too concerned with it...but I know he wants me to tell my dad that I deserve to be miserable, that I had no reason for what I did, and that he has the right to treat me this way for as long as he feels like it.

Ultimately, I can't control the way my parents think about the situation, just like he can't control his. They are all emotionally invested in the mental well-being of their child, and are going to say emotional things as a result. His mother has said really hurtful things about me to him in the last few weeks -- things like that I might run off with the family heirloom jewelry, so he had better hide it. And that I might lie to him about the results of my STD test. And that I might hurt myself and try to pin it on him. Very hurtful things. And while I'm offended that she would say that (and that fact that he did not defend me, when she did), I understand that she said them in an emotionally volatile time and I am not holding it against her. I wish BH would do the same, with mine. Because the things they have said might have been misguided, but they were not nearly that bad and were all said in the spirit of support and love for me.

Honestly, I'm not terribly thrilled with BH reading the communication to and from my parents, in general -- it feels like a violation of privacy. They aren't transporting secret messages between AP and myself, so what's the point? Am I out of line in feeling this way? I'm having a hard time negotiating where my "rights" are in all of this...

[8/3 Edit to correct typo.]

[This message edited by CantSleepCantEat at 12:48 PM, August 3rd (Thursday)]

The point is full transparency. Which you promised your husband,when he offered the gift of reconciliation.

You need to set your parents straight. Right now, they're not friends of your marriage. They're making excuses for your bad choices, and basically blaming your husband. Of course your husband is upset when reading that.

You do need to tell your parents that what you're dealing with now,are the consequences of your actions. You have traumatized your husband,and caused enormous damage to not only your marriage, but to your husband,and yourself. That you do need to feel remorse for what you've done.

Your MIL's responses are actually spot on. Many wayward wives,when they lose control of their husbands, claim domestic violence. It's quite common. Several betrayed husbands here have had to deal with that. We also encourage any BS to have the doctor send them the results of their WS STD test, because WS's aren't known for their honesty. The comments about the family jewelry are because you've proven yourself to be untrustworthy. I'm sorry you're offended,but considering you're not far from your dday,it's not surprising.

Have you apologized to his parents for the devastation you've caused? Many WS have done just that.

Unfortunately,you've put yourself into position where you will need to prove yourself for quite some time. It's part of the hard work a WS has to do.

I'm rather surprised you felt your husband should have defended you. It tells me you have no idea as to how you have changed his whole world.

Empathy. Humbling yourself. Those are key thus early on.

Have you shared this site with your husband,so he can get the support he needs?

Something to tuck away for later.... (honestly)

You don't care at all about AP (I believe you), which leaves your (or any) BS thinking, omg you screwed me over for NOTHING because you aren't even in love with them.

It's a no win situation for the BS and you. That's one of the biggest kickers there are. All that for nothing.

I mention it ONLY to aid in the empathy arena.

As always, thank you. Truly.

Hellfire- I should clarify that BH has not offered to try to reconcile. He has agreed to not make a final decision to divorce for another 60 days, but he is still very ambivalent about the future of our marriage. Ambivalent might be too positive, actually. He said he doesn't see how he could stay with me. But he's agreed to not make up his mind, yet.

He is aware of the site. We've discussed it and he's seen it in my daily browser history. He has not shown any interest in joining, despite my mentioning that I feel it is helping me. He has a similar attitude towards IC. I suspect he does not want to admit that he could use help or support. I hope he will pursue both.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the parent situation, although it might be due to deficiencies in my initial description. My parents have never blamed him for what I've done. They've only attempted to give me strength to shoulder this burden I brought upon us. Their concerns are that I will insist on staying in an unhealthy, unhappy marriage forever as penance for the guilt I feel. That's not good for anyone.

And for what it's worth, it turns out BH did defend me when his mom mentioned the domestic violence accusation. Not vehemently, but he did tell her he didn't think I would do anything like that. You don't know me, so the general cautions you mention are good advice. In fairness, he didn't think I'd ever cheat, either (neither did I)... And yet here I am, so scepticism is warranted on all fronts. But it's one thing to be reckless, careless, callous and unthinkingly selfish. It's another to be deliberately cruel. I didn't go out and have an A to hurt my BH. I had an A because I wasn't thinking about how my choices impacted him, or that they would hurt him. The hurt might be the same, but the intent is different -- the actions his mother mentions are vindictive. That's why I was offended - not because I deserve to be trusted. I realize that I don't. I'm also not saying careless disregard is any better than vindictiveness, necessarily - but I've come to terms with my self-absorption and the need to fix that. The flaws she mentions are entirely different.

I've considered contacting his parents to apologize, and have brought it up to BH on multiple occasions, but he's never seemed thrilled with the idea. I haven't reached out because I don't want to do so if it will be against his wishes.

SnF- I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. How could I throw away everything for nothing?! However, I hadn't thought about this from my BH's perspective (rookie mistake - I'm working on this, I promise). I'm sure it must be painful to hear - at least if I "loved" AP, it would make some sense. As it is, it's utterly senseless...

At the time, I thought AP meant something to me, but even as I told him ILY, I must have known it wasn't real, because I never considered leaving BH. I wish that one, tiny part of my brain that was thinking straight would have made the rest take notice - obviously if I wouldn't even think of leaving BH for AP, I SHOULDN'T BE RISKING EVERYTHING I HAD WITH BH FOR AP. Honestly, I cannot believe how stupid I was.

Thank you, again. Every response provides a new perspective and an opportunity to grow.

Cantsleep - Has your BH sought out details of the affair? Both the physical and emotional? Does he seek a rational response how you could have this affair? If he doesn't have this answer yet his mind might keep going to various probable causes "because she loved AP" "because the AP was incredible in bed" "because I wasn't a good partner". None of this maybe true but the mind wanders.

CantSleepCantEat, I have to agree with HellFire. One month out - one month! - your parents are worried that your husband is angry / "being vindictive" ? Suggesting that you can't stay in a relationship like this forever ? 2, 3, 5 YEARS out, those would be absolutely legitimate concerns. Right now, that stinks of blame shifting and rug sweeping. (I didn't read anything in your post that suggested he was abusive; just angry, hurt, confused - i.e. a normal human in a shitty situation)

I'm speaking from experience here ... my WW parents were exactly the same. I can't tell you how much it hurts when you've been betrayed by a spouse and then, on top of that, get judged / blamed by people you considered family. I promise you, your parents are doing more damage to your chances at R than you realize.

Eventually I didn't want anything to do with WW parents. At that point they started badmouthing me to other family and friends (damage control / getting ahead of any story that might reflect poorly on them). As a consequence, WW parents have not seen us or their grandchildren for nearly 5 years. You might want to think about, and suggest your parents think about, the consequences of what they're saying if your BH decides to stay, and you guys R.

As you know, there are some things we can't take back - not just infidelity.

[This message edited by drownedman at 8:31 AM, August 3rd (Thursday)]

As a long time divorced man I agree 101% - please re-read Hellfire and devotedmans post several times

maybe a poor analogy but think sorta like this -

your husbands thinking is mixed up - he can't string together his recent experiences into a logical train of thought

His thinking is like a fire hose that doesn't have the two fireman holding the nozzle and controlling the direction of the water

Do you really want your marriage to survive?

Read/study/IC and know that everyone who gets this Sxxx-sandwich processes all the thoughts differently. You may fail - but please NEVER give up. If you giveup, you have struck out without ever having swung the bat.

Even though YOU view your behavior as selfishness and not vindictiveness, MIL doesn't have that insight. Remember she is just doing as your parents are, trying her best to sort things out and support her child in a situation she has no control over. I also try to remember that I didn't think I was capable of causing such harm without intent, but I still did. It's possible I could do other things, either without intent, or without being honest with myself about my intent, that would look to all the world (and even me, eventually) as vindictive and intentionally hurtful.

I appreciate the advice.

I feel like everyone wants me to leave. Am I selfish for staying and trying to work on it? BH occasionally says so - that's it's still all about what I want.

I have a hard time reading between the lines, sometimes. I truly do want to do what is best for him, but I don't know what it is all the time. I worry that the ambiguity allows my wants to creep in and color things. Since he isn't pursuing external help with healing - as far as I know, he's done no reading about affair recovery - and isn't a terribly self-reflective person to begin with, I am unsure if he means what he's saying or if he's just lashing out. If he means it, I need to respect it - but if he doesn't, and he needs something else from me, I don't ever want to leave him feeling like I've given up.

Each time: Is it the hurt talking? Should I do what he says and get out, or does he need to see that I'm committed right now? Does he *actually* not want me to say that I love him, or is he just unwilling to show me he wants it? It's all so raw right now, either one could be true at any time.

It's a guessing game, and the stakes are high. I'm trying my best to help him heal, but it's like working with a patient who isn't able to identify their symptoms (or, worse yet, misidentifies them).

Your husband has no idea what he wants right now. The pain is crippling. He's been severally traumatized. He's not jerking you around on purpose.

He told you he would wait sixty days to make a decision. That means you have sixty days to show him real changes,true remorse,etc. He wants to see you fighting for him.

And I stand by what I said about your parents. They are causing far more harm right now.

As for his mother..intent doesn't matter. You betrayed him. If you think you had no idea that finding out his wife was having sex with another man would hurt him, then you were fooling yourself then....and now.

I know what you mean about the confusion of what to do next. My BH is on the same rollercoaster although he does have a decent amount of self reflection going on I believe. Right now I have to have faith that in time he will figure out what he wants and be honest with me about it. Until then I just have to work on myself. As frustrating as it is, that is all I can do. I cannot help him heal until and unless he is willing to let me. All I can do is show him I am not giving up. When I start to feel sorry for myself, lost in this "no mans land" with no clear direction, I try to remember that this must be similar to what he felt when his world came crashing down.

Omg. After I found out about my wife's affair, my MIL was awful.

I was so close to her and my FIL. I was closer to them than she was!

My wife and I are in R, but I'll never forget what my MIL said to me after I found out.

She tells me that I was only hurt because it was my ego!

Not the fact that she had killed the marriage. The fact that she wanted me to become a weekend dad to my children. Not the fact that I was a damn blubbering mess that couldn't get any answers!

You need to defend him so that he can see it! That is one of the most painful things. Make it known that you choose him over them. Otherwise your M doesn't stand a chance.

And forget about privacy unless you are going #2.

Honestly, I'm not terribly thrilled with BH reading the communication to and from my parents, in general it feels like a violation of privacy. They aren't transporting secret messages between AP and myself, so what's the point? Am I out of line in feeling this way? I'm having a hard time negotiating where my "rights" are in all of this...

Your right to privacy went out the window when you started having affairs. You abused the foundational trust of your marriage when you did that.

Your husband doesn't know they are not transporting secret messages, there have been many stories on this site on how in laws supported, encouraged, and did things to facilitate affairs.

having open access to anything you can log into is called transparency, and it is a non-negotional when trying to save a marriage from an affair. If a BS posted that their wayward wasn't being transparent in the other forums they would be told that this is a major red flag and they should start investigating.

Your BS is watching your actions... and actions like fighting transparency will determine his/her ability to be able to reconcile with you.

I do not know if you have read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda McDonald but this is ONE of her 15 points that is a must in order to heal the relationship.