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DHH I just read this entire thread, how is your situation now with your WW ?

First let me say I truly hope your R works and you and her can have a happy life together. So, after reading your thread, I have a question. At the beginning she said she married you knowing she didn't love you. Then she said, even though you were a better lover, your sex problems were because she had no feeling for you. The question is, "what does she say now?" Does she still not love you? Does she still have no sexual feelings for you? Or is this something that is not discussed? I do wish you well.

Anoldlion, now she loves me, now she has sexual desire for me.

"She married me knowing that she didn't love me" is history rewriting (most probably). That's how she felt during her A - as with almost every other cheater she had to justify why she is doing what she is doing. She didn't feel that when marrying me.

Our wedding is different issue, BTW. I felt that I'm committed to our relationship even without legal papers, so I was not in a hurry to make it "official". She, on the other hand, thought that I'm reluctant to propose because she is just "OK" for me and I don't want to tie the knot in case somebody better comes along. And when I realized that there's a big issue, it was already too late. She is the kind of person who stuffs her feelings down. We see that in cheaters a lot.

As for a sexual desire - most probably it started to decline due to use of birth control pills, but then it escalated. After our twins were born, we had a very busy time. I was working from home, helping her with a babies. Had a hard time juggling house chores with work, often worked long evenings, because that was the most quiet time in our house. Sex for me was the moments of highest intimacy, where I could recover closeness that was missing because of all other family stuff. For her it was just sex. She wanted to spend more time together. I could have done that, but it would have been even more difficult. So I said to myself (and to her) that this is temporary, life will become easier when kids are a bit older. Nevertheless, we got into a closed circle. She rejected my sexual advances because she "just wanted to be together, she was tired, etc" (but she still had energy to plan our vacations, travels, etc.). I started avoiding her, working late even if it was not necessary, because I dreaded evenings when I would be lying next to her, wanting to be intimate and she will be sitting in the bed with her laptop and planning what we should visit during our next trip (she was on maternity leave for 5 years and I could work from almost anywhere with decent WiFi, so we traveled a lot). She avoided hugging and kissing with me because "that would necessary lead to something more sexual" (like caressing her breasts or ass). I tried stopping these sexual advancements for several months to no effect. I cannot remember last time she kissed me first before her As. We still had sex - two/three times per month, she still had immense pleasure during it (and this is was what puzzled me most - if you feel pleasure, you would want to repeat that, right?). And no, she was not faking orgasms.

During (or around) her second A I was thinking - "most probably I will wait until our DDs are 18 and I will D her" (not because of sex - I just began to feel that she doesn't really love me and I have to detach).

She feels desire for me now. She initiates. But I'm much more reserved now.

And more about love. Most probably she loved me before starting fucking other men. The problem was that her love (and I think it should be common trait with a cheaters) was shallow. I always felt my love like a tree, with roots stretching everywhere, with various little details, with imperfections. For her, love was like a white plate on table. So easy to move. She is learning what love is now. Reviewing what she had. What she lost. How incredibly stupid she was to not see what she had and how incredibly stupid she was to throw it all away.

Buster123, I think I'm beginning to see the woman I can spend the rest of my life with now. Not that I trust her yet. Not that I'm sure it is a good decision. It's just that the way she is now would be OK for me. Several years pre-affair me was OK with what she was then. Current me would not be. She still has miles to go, but she has really changed. Let's see if that change is permanent.

Ohfor, I always wonder where would I be if I D'ed her. My take is that she did so much damage to me that it would be unfair to any woman that comes into my life to deal with any consequences of it. Maybe I can be alone and happy, I don't know. There are many things that I would miss that only come with a relationship and a partner.

DHH,

Thank you for the update and continued support you provide to the membership at SI.

Best wishes for you and your family

Thanks for the update, I sincerely wish you the best for your family, hope WW is in for the long haul this time and realizes everything she thought she was looking for during her As to meet her needs has always been in front of her all along, a committed husband and father of her precious children.

I’m not phone savvy so don’t judge

Can you track location without the, knowing?

Buster, the thing is that no matter how I tried, I couldn't give her "needs that she was fulfilling" with her As. I couldn't give her "affair thrill". I couldn't become some other man with a different dick that you need to hide from myself. I couldn't give her the thrill of getting a call in a middle of the night and leaving me to fuck with OM in a hotel.

She started first affair for thrills only. "Not for sex" was one of the bullshit things I heard, it took her quite a long time to realize, that she went for the "whole package" and that it doesn't matter if in her head it wasn't "I want to fuck that guy" - she knew perfectly well that "having an affair" included fucking and she took "whole package" anyway. Despite the fact that she had committed husband and father of her kids in front of her all that time.

TarnishedSilver, my WW knew I was tracking her location.

DHH-Your last post it seems pretty much sums up how your relationship with your WW grew into conflict and bad choices and what led into the downfall of your relationship and your marriage.

I remember when my two kids were young, I didn't have the emotional energy to invest in my marriage. All I wanted from my WH at the time when I was raising my kids was to be held. I was so emotionally exhausted and emotionally drained from caring for two young children and a home that I neglected my WH needs. He felt rejected along with other issues and crisis's he was experiencing in his own life.

My lack of interest in intimacy with my WH in that time led him to think that I wasn't interested in him at all, so he turned to alcohol and cheating. He thought I was cheating also. I wasn't, just more excited and interested in other things going on in my life at the time. Even though it was wrong, my kids became my number one and I ignored my WH needs and grudgingly gave into my WH when he wanted sex. And for whatever reason, I

also began to feel resentful towards my husband. I'm sure it had to do with the fact that he was super busy in his career and he put his family second.

All of these issues we had and my lack of interest in nurturing my relationship with my WH led me to hit rock bottom. I didn't understand what was going on between us at the time but basically we were busy in our own lives and didn't take the time needed to nurture our relationship and love for each other. My WH husband also agree's with this. At the time, he only saw my behavior.

Fast forward to today, my husband has 100% turned his life around and I also see my part in how I caused our marriage to decline. But on the other hand, if today he chooses to make poor choices again instead of seeking out a positive solution when there is an issue, I would be done with him.

Today, I have some emotional issues that I am dealing with because of my WH choices and the pain his behavior caused me. He is very remorseful and sorry and regretful what he did against me, our marriage and our kids. Everyone was affected by his hurtful behavior. Something we all will have to live with for the rest of our lives.

I definitely can see the parallels with our two relationships and how poor choices and lack of understanding each others needs and lack of nurturing the relationship led to the decline of our marriages.

I hope things are getting better between you and your WW . The truth is that your marriage should always stay as top priority unless of course there is an understanding that in the moment something else may need to take precedence. Example: Your child is sick, etc.

DHH-Your last post it seems pretty much sums up how your relationship with your WW grew into conflict and bad choices and what led into the downfall of your relationship and your marriage.

I don't think anything in our relationship "led" to infidelity. Yes, it created atmosphere, where affair was more likely to happen compared to completely "healthy" relationships (BTW, can you show me one? I haven't seen such thing yet), because it is easier to rationalize when you have some "problems" to latch onto. If anybody who knew about our problems were to guess who will cheat, they would have pointed at me.

I have a strong feeling that many of the problems in relationship could have been avoided if it weren't for the personality traits of WS (e.g. I often found out about the problems (or severity of the problem) when it was already too late to do anything. I often got "if you don't understand it yourself then it doesn't matter" like I was some fucking mind reader, etc., etc.). The same traits that allowed WS to rationalize their shitty choices and become a cheater.

Yes, I see some parallels in our situations, but it actually is one more data point in a thesis that relationship problems doesn't cause infidelity. I'm the husband in your situation. I didn't turn to cheating and alcohol. You are my wife in my situation. You didn't go to fuck others for a thrill. It is their poor problem solving and coping skills that led us where we are. Most probably, if they had these right, not only cheating but most of our relationship problems wouldn't even be there.

Prior to my WW first affair, I was offering her a lot of intimacy, affection, attention. She refused everything. She didn't look for any of it with OM (edit: no, she actually did. She looked for attention from somebody else, because mine was taken for granted). It started with "life is too short and you have to take every chance" conversation and took a week or so of OM's texts "you are beautiful, I want you" for my WW to decide that our marriage, our kids aren't worth enough to pass on a perfect chance to spread her legs for somebody else. To have a little fun. It was nothing because I didn't love her (I don't understand how she could be so fucking blind) and probably she didn't too.

So to summarize, I don't know how we would have ended up if she hasn't cheated, but I definitely know that her infidelity lead to absolute downfall of our relationship and marriage.

[This message edited by DarkHoleHeart at 4:12 AM, August 16th (Thursday)]

A details can vary a lot depending on the unique facts and circumstances of the individual spouses. But we do see a number of repeated fact patterns involved in A's, to the point where they become almost cliche. It is normal for emotional and sexual intimacy between spouse to diminish for a period after the birth of children. Children add a fourth dimension to a relationship, one that is difficult to perceive but quite tangible. Fatigue, for sure, but also an "attention vacuum" where both the conscious and subconscious mind(s) of the parents move away from the marriage and to the kids.

Married people of character recognize this as one of the sacrifices that parents make for their kids. They remain true to their wedding vows and to their spouse.

Married people without the ability to see their lives in a "big picture" view internalize this and take it as a rejection from their spouse. Those with poor personal boundaries use this as a catalyst to look outside the marriage.

DHH, gently, what you describe is just that. A person without character, and lacking boundaries, responding to normal marital stresses by stepping outside the marriage. And she didn't just do it once. She completely left the marriage altogether, with multiple men, and she continued doing this, and lying to you about it, even after you discovered it and even in the presence of (and apparently with the advice of) your charlatan MC.

The question is whether your WW has recognized that she is the one with a serious character defect? Has she identified her defect and taken steps to try to change/fix it? Is she a safe partner, or will she stray again the next time there is a marriage stressor -- a loss of a job, perhaps, or a catastrophic injury.

We can only offer advice based on what you post. From that, she has not done these things, not even a little. To the contrary, she has rugswept and is now trying to live her marriage with you as a masquerade, as if the A's never occurred. She was also masquerading when she was TT'ing you, and lying to you. In other words, what you're describing is an individual who has not changed, at all, who is not safe and in fact seems volatile and dangerous.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 5:22 AM, August 16th (Thursday)]

DHH, gently, what you describe is just that. A person without character, and lacking boundaries, responding to normal marital stresses by stepping outside the marriage. And she didn't just do it once. She completely left the marriage altogether....

BFTG, you are absolutely right. But the following (I hope) is not:

We can only offer advice based on what you post. From that, she has not done these things, not even a little. To the contrary, she has rugswept and is now trying to live her marriage with you as a masquerade, as if the A's never occurred. She was also masquerading when she was TT'ing you, and lying to you. In other words, what you're describing is an individual who has not changed, at all, who is not safe and in fact seems volatile and dangerous.

It looks like you are describing pre-DDay2 WW (or, more exact, pre-D-papers-WW). She was/did all of these things, squared. Current WW is quite a different thing (infidelity taught me to be always cautious, so I'll add again - I hope). And I'm quite puzzled - my posts over a few last pages say that she made a huge strides to becoming a safe person. She realizes/owns that she was everything you described. She's working on erasing/learning to control all the traits that led her to infidelity. She is not rugsweeping anything, she is living to fix all the damage her affair inflicted (and it is extensive - she also realizes this). She found IC that does not subscribe to rugsweeping and other "traditional" methods of dealing with infidelity.

If I felt even a sniff of a person that you described now (more than a year out from DDay2), I would restart D process. I had enough of that person for a couple of lifetimes.

DHH, I think you misread my post. My point is that several factors on my part and my WH part led to the conflict and downfall of mine and my WH marriage. I wasn't referring to the bad choices my WH and your WW made in dealing with the issues and stresses of daily life. I was simply stating that there were parallels in what led to the downfall of our marriages.

I don't understand why your WW chose to go down such a bad path and reach out to other men. Honestly, some of her reasonings of why she reached out doesn't make sense to me. I am curious as to what her FOO looks like and how they handled conflict?

DHH, no offense but you seem extremely angry today compared to your last posts where you said that you felt nothing (numb?) after your WW first infidelities. What are you doing to help yourself and to deal with your hurt and pain?? You've talked about her getting counseling and I believe you said that you lost confidence yourself in counselors? It took awhile but my husband and I finally found someone who could hear and understand us but also both my WH and I are "all in" in the marriage and the relationship.

I also recall reading that you and your WW have three children together and she works fulltime outside the home and you work fulltime from the home? That must be tough to try and raise three children with both of you working fulltime. Just saying. I would think there wouldn't be any emotional energy left for the marriage and partnership with two parents working fulltime and trying to raise three kids.

Please don't get mad at me for saying this but you seem a bit controlling. The reason I say this is because you told your wife that she needed to stay in her job "just" in case and I also understand she changed jobs and is still working fulltime. No offense but it seems to me that your home has become your workplace environment and not a family home. It seems to me that there is imbalance going on here. It seems to me that it may benefit the whole family if you took your work elsewhere at least part of the time, allow your wife to work part time so that she could be home for the kids and maybe it could create a better balance in your homelife.

Isn't it the goal to find more positive and constructive solutions to the reconciliation of the marriage and family? I feel that it takes effort and reflection of the poor choices from both the husband and wife to see where the downfall of the marriage originated from and to find better coping mechanisms.

I am not trying to make you angry but I almost feel that your wife was trying to find a way out of the marriage because she felt so stiffled and controlled by kid's and a husband that was home 24/7. I know that you mentioned that you helped her out but still, where was her downtime, just to be by herself and to be a homemaker and care for the kid's? My mom stayed home and raised eight kids and my dad went to work. My dad helped out when he got home from work.

I am sorry if my comments seem a bit harsh, this is not my goal. I am only trying to give my POV from an objective standpoint, based on the information you offered.

DHH: I find her strident refusal to discuss the actual facts of the A with you, answer your "dirty detail" questions, patiently rehash the timeline, etc., to be a huge red flag. These are things that many (possibly most) BS's need to process their own healing.

About 50% of a WS's burden involves figuring what it broken in them and fixing it. The other 50% involves helping their BS heal, which is usually accomplished via patent, unwavering, devoted attention and willingness to discuss anything/everything concerning the A to the extent the BS wants this. Based on what I've read here on SI, most BS's want this to a pretty high degree of detail. I certainly would. I know that about myself.

Recall my "The Truman Show" metaphor. There is a hole in the narrative of your marriage where the "truth" that was presented to you by your WW was fake. She was not married to you. She was pretending to be married, but was secretly giving her intimacy to other men. Those other men were actually more intimate with her than you were, because they knew the truth about her and you did not.

It is natural and normal that a BH would want to know the truth about that period, even the most bitter, painful, emasculating truth. Most people feel the most comfort when they understand the cogent, honest narrative of their intimate life. You can only recover from something if you know what you're recovering from.

At this point you're still only about a year out from DDay #2. Most of the info here on SI is that year 2 is harder than year 1. The "Plain of Lethal Flatness" -- the reality in your soul that your WW is the kind of woman who will fuck other men and lie to you about it, repeatedly and extensively. In your case, my gut is that she may very well may still be lying to you about the extent of it.

If you don't flesh out the truth of that narrative now, while it's fresh, time will pass and details/memory will fade, but the demon in your spirit will reside and will manifest itself later in dysfunctional ways. It will eat at your self image and one day you'll wake up and realize "Dammit, I should have insisted on answers." By then, her memory will be diminished and she will have rug swept the A in her own mind. She will be even more shrill about the "why do you insist on dwelling on the past" BS that is standard fare of most rug sweeping WS's.

The reality is that you're not "dwelling on the past" by insisting on these answers. You're trying to understand the true narrative and timeline of your marriage. Her A occurred during your marriage. She fucked other men during your marriage. That is part of your marriage. She is keeping that from you. That is anathema to intimacy.

In the end, intimacy is the glue that holds marriage together. Your WW was masquerading to you during her A. She TT's and lied to you during the discovery process. And now she is trying to build an ersatz future that is devoid of true intimacy, because she is uncomfortable with the reality that would be necessary for true intimacy.

DHH, I think you misread my post. My point is that several factors on my part and my WH part led to the conflict and downfall of mine and my WH marriage.

Hm, I think I have a problem with "conflict and downfall". Most marriages have ongoing conflicts. But I don't consider that our marriage was in a downfall pre-affair. After affair - definitely. And yes, there are definitely parallels in our situations.

I don't understand why your WW chose to go down such a bad path and reach out to other men. Honestly, some of her reasonings of why she reached out doesn't make sense to me. I am curious as to what her FOO looks like and how they handled conflict?

The problem is that I cannot copy-paste her personality here :). Her reasoning is bullshit, but it makes sense to me. She is a thrill-seeker. We do a lot of crazy stuff. And about how she handled conflict - she stuffed it inside. In her mind I didn't love her, she didn't love me (yes, in her mind it was downfall, wish I knew), so having some fun on the side wasn't going to hurt anybody, right (like the children didn't exist)?

Please don't get mad at me for saying this but you seem a bit controlling. The reason I say this is because you told your wife that she needed to stay in her job "just" in case and I also understand she changed jobs and is still working fulltime

She offered to quit her job because AP1&3 works there - to make me more comfortable. I said I don't need it (various reasons). So we decided she keeps working there. There was reorganization that put her in a different building than AP1&3. It is not easy for her to find a part-time job that would be worth it (i.e. if commute and other associated expenses eat up good part of your salary, is it worth it?). Of course, we could take a financial hit by WW becoming SAHM, but I don't want that (various reasons, one of which is "just in case"). As for different working arrangements creating better atmosphere for the family - it's not that we aren't discussing such things (e.g. one of the options we are exploring is that she can work from home several days and I'm going to the office several days per week (not whole day)).

DHH, no offense but you seem extremely angry today compared to your last posts where you said that you felt nothing (numb?) after your WW first infidelities

Maybe that's because I'm extremely angry ? The truth is that I have so much unresolved rage from her affairs and year of TT. It really shows up in my posts. She knows about that rage and sometimes feels it (I vent to her - that's about the only thing that helps to calm it down). To correct - I felt indifferent to her after her last affair, that was a short one and happened after almost year of TT. I was heading on D path, but she surprised me with remorse, so I gave her one last chance. Note that I don't think I'm in R really yet. I'm more in observation mode.

I had several sessions with the same IC as WW. I know that this is not recommended generally, but after my traumatic experience with ICs I don't want to look for anybody else, and this one hasn't discredited herself so far.

I am not trying to make you angry but I almost feel that your wife was trying to find a way out of the marriage because she felt so stiffled and controlled by kid's and a husband that was home 24/7. I know that you mentioned that you helped her out but still, where was her downtime, just to be by herself and to be a homemaker and care for the kid's?

Hm, it is quite interesting POV. If you asked her, even she would answer "no, no way". I would say that it really was the other way around. I was too weak to resist her selfishness (and control). She was on maternity leave for 5 years. I was working full time and still helped her out. When she returned to work, she still had her downtime, if she wanted she could have had her "be a homemaker and care for the kids". But it was like she was no longer interested in a family (I wish she helped me out more, I wish I had some downtime). As my mother described her, it looks like she plays games. She was girlfriend for a while, then she was a wife and nest builder. Then for a while she was mother. And then she went onto "life is short, you have to take every chance it provides" game.

Butforthegrace, you are still describing pre-DDay2 WW.

She answers my every question. There are many IDRs now, but I know for a fact that her memory is shitty and I even tried to remember some similar kind of details from my life and couldn't - and I have good long term memory. And these are about quite insignificant details or feelings.

I think I know ~90% of what happened. I think it is much more than she remembers now. The rest 10% is what she forgot/minimized at the time and forgot later. Unless there were more affairs (I'm 99% positive there weren't, based on the facts), I think I know enough. I still ask questions and she answers without hesitation.

If you want more details, let me refer you to this same thread, my post 2/3rds down the page:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=607426&AP=181

Let me assure you - we are going towards R SI-way. I learned my lessons the hard way.

I realize that she has grudgingly released details to you as you prized them out of her. Again, it is difficult to get a feel for the actual personalities involved because of the nature of these forums, so forgive me if I'm reading something into her personality that is not actually there. It just feels to me that she's not carrying the load on the portion of her burden relating to helping you heal.

That is of course personal to you and if you feel you are healing, in the end, that's all that matters. I am mindful, though, of a couple of active threads where BH's gave R a chance for some time but eventually ran out of steam because their WW was not investing energy into helping them heal.

It just feels to me that she's not carrying the load on the portion of her burden relating to helping you heal.

She really does. And this is not just me trying to fool myself. I've done quite a lot of that during year of TT, so I know the signs.

DHH-you really seem like a nice, kind man. This time, I did not see any anger and resentment in your responses to me. My thoughts are that you are seriously trying to make this relationship right and so is your WW but you are having a hard time dealing with the pain that your WW caused to your soul and mind. I totally get it. It sounds like you are going through torture. I also felt how you currently feel but things are so much better for my WH and I now. More on that later.

My WH and I have been married 30 years and our issues spiraled out of control around seven years ago. They were ongoing and we never dealt with them properly until everything got out of hand. Our relationship hit rock bottom around four years ago when I had had enough of the crap. But my WH was at his worse three years ago. So, as I look back, I would say that we've been in true R for the past year and a half.

It sounds like you are at a very difficult time in your life because you still have three young children to raise and I do believe that you love your WW and want things to be right again. I will tell you (and I hate to admit to it) that mine and my WH marriage is better than ever because we both have been working hard on ourselves and we both see how we contributed to the poor choices in our marriage. I am sorry if my wording at times confuses you. Lol I just wish that my WH and I didn't have to go to these levels to make our marriage right again.

I will be honest with my part of the downfall of my marriage. There were many times when men would try to cross my boundries and try to get to me. By this I mean for example, that one of these men when he was on duty would stop by the house if I was outside with my kids when my husband wasn't home. There was a fence around the yard but he still didn't need to come by and show his interest in me. I was uncomfortable but felt I had to be nice. Today, I would politely excuse myself and go into the house until he was gone or turn my back to him.

I was a very faithful wife (and still am) but my WH didn't feel that I put up strong enough boundries with these men because truth be told, I enjoyed the attention and flattery.

Another instance of my poor behavior was when a grocery store manager would give me attention when I shopped. Believe me, he got right in my face. I'm not sure how I could have stopped that but should have just ignored him from day one.

There were other instances similar to these two and at times it was worse than this. Sometimes, things got really weird.

My point is that I didn't display safe behavior in my marriage by accepting compliments and flattery from other men which in return caused my WH to believe I wasn't a safe and faithful partner. Today, we both can look back at the situation and talk about how things could have been handled differently. I felt I had to be nice back then. Today, I have no problem ignoring other men because I love my husband and his love and his attention is good for me. I am fulfilled by what he has to offer me as a loving, faithful and honest husband. I also put up strong boundries with other men. I pretty much have no response to them at all anymore.

Today, I understand how deeply my behavior hurt my WH and now if a man wants to give me attention, I ignore them. I act "as if" they are not there. My WH loves how I handle myself today. It helps him to feel secure in our marriage. Besides, I accept my WH attention as enough. I don't need others to validate that I am attractive and good enough. I used to though and my "not doing anything about it" behavior towards these men hurt my WH so deeply that he thought I was going out on him. I will tell you though that I was not a flirt but was just too nice.

My point in telling you this is that I also had a part in the downfall of my marriage. I do not take any responsibility for my WH poor choices of getting back at me or by torturing me by flirting with other women. This is on him but at the same time, I also can see how my behavior led to the destruction of our marriage.

Maybe you might want to consider going back into joint counseling with your wife and you also might want to consider getting on an antidepressant for a year or so. I did but it took me some time to finally decide that it was time to go down this path. Our therapist told me that the danger in taking the antidepressant is not taking antidepressant itself but in stopping too soon because it has helped me to feel better and to be able to handle things in a better frame of mind.

I have been on it for around 5 months now and I am doing so much better. It doesn't take the feelings away, it just helps me to feel a little calmer. Up until the point of taking the meds, I would go into severe post trama and for lack of better words, freak out when I had a trigger. I had so many triggers. It was horrible.

The triggers are still there but they are so much more manageable and my WH can help me through things more easily. He too is becoming a safe partner for me again. We are learning to build trust again but in different ways now.

My husband is all in and takes responsibility for the trama he caused me by stepping outside the boundries of our marriage. I am sorry for my part also.

I developed severe PTSD because of my husband's poor choices but as I stated earlier in this post, I also needed to take responsibility for my actions or inactions in my case.

I have hope for you and your WW to resolve your issues, partly because you have stated that the two of you are working on solutions to better your marriage and to make it safer and happier place again. I truly believe that you are on a positive path to finding that happiness once again.

Hopefully, you will decide to go back to joint counseling with your WW and get on antidepressants. Don't worry if the counselor tells you that she has developed a relationship with your wife. If you like this counselor and you feel she is good then insist on going back to her as a couple and stay in the office as a couple, even if things do get heated. It's okay.

I do believe you and your WW are on a good path towards R. I just feel maybe it is time for you to allow yourself to take steps toward your healing.

You don't have to hang on so tight to the pain your WW caused you. I understand why you may feel the need to hang onto the pain but isn't it the ultimate goal to R with your WW so that the two of you can become the awesome partners and parents that you were meant to be?

Hi DarkHoleHeart,

I find it a little disturbing that although I have pretty much skip read this thread that I fully understand that you regard your wife as now remorseful within the guidance of SI, yet other posters continue to challenge that based on her behaviours before you threatened her with Divorce.

So please continue down your current path. It's not as though I don't find your WW's behaviour during the A's and false reconciliation despicable. It speaks for itself and I hope that she does too but I don't like it when people claim that a WW is not remorseful when she clearly is.

That is not to say that you don't have the right to pull the plug if at some point you are unable to get over the affairs.