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Has anyone had any experience with this? DD was 8-14-16. Since then it has been revealed that he is a porn/sex addict. Apparently he had a cyber affair with the OW for 9 years and it led to a physical affair. He told me it meant nothing to him, it was only personalized porn and never felt "real". I don't know what to believe or feel anymore! I would love to talk to someone who understands what I am going through!

Hi Karat - has he been diagnosed by a professional? I ask because sometimes it is "easier" to label something an addiction in order to justify or explain the behavior. Certainly, lots of affairs have parallels to addictive behaviors, but actual sex addiction is not all that common...

I'm sorry for the pain you are in. I'm sure others will be along with information and support!

I know exactly what you are going through.

Hugs! My husband did everything online. Crazy shit that just isn't him.

He was a narcissistic asshole online. Made himself into something he's not. I still to this day don't understand that side of him then.

He really was addicted to the attention ( before me the internet was a big part of his life because he was kind of a recluse)

Yet he honestly thinks of the women, even the crazy one he ended up having sex with, as just these slutty women. He says now that it makes him sick the way he was and weighing life with that he sees how ridiculously fake it all was and how it actually made him feel worse not better.

I fucking hate the internet sex sites, cl, all of that, so many sick people with serious issues that are seeking married people.

It's also like just because you are behind a screen doesn't make your marriage valid!!!

He cheated on me because of the online sex shit plain and simple.

Hugs. Fuck those sites!!!!!

Yes, he has been diagnosed by a professional.

Also keep in mind my husband was allowed by the OWs husband to fuck her.

Another sicko online

I am so sorry you are hurting! I have done a lot of research about porn and sex addiction because I was concerned that my wh is one! It is a very controversial topic and some professionals do not believe it is an actual diagnosis. It is not to say that they do not cause issues and problems for people but labeling it an addiction is thought by many not to be an actual label. Dr David Ley has written a lot about this. Many therapists will label people as sex and porn addicts and that leads to problems with treatment, shame issues, etc. Anyway, when I started reading about it I felt my wh was an addict. It would have explained so much!! However I am now convinced that is a misused term. Please look into this more.

Sending you good thoughts on this journey!

Same response I posted on the other thread:

Personally I think SA is utter bullsh*t. Eggheads excusing bad behavior. That's a common theme among us humans these days. It allows the cheater, like your hubby, to say "I couldn't help it. I'm sick. Take pity on me."

Maybe some people do. I can't stop them. I don't. SA is bullsh*t in my book and I don't care how many nerdy eggheads say otherwise. It's a cop out for people that don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.

Don't let them bully you into having to accept or tolerate anything you don't want to. That is your right.

I understand. We have been in counseling/therapy since 2014. WH therapist is CSAT for individual and group therapy. WH has done group therapy as well. I see a therapist trained in spouses recovery and been in a spouses recovery group also. You may PM me if you need to chat.

My husband owned his shit. Said he was addicted to the rush of attention.

But feels much better with it out of his life.

The affair was a such a huge wake up call.

Everything that you see in movies, happened to us with this crazy AP. Thanks to the internet!!!

I could not have written a cheesy life time movie about internet affair gone wrong, worse than this.

It really showed my "addicted to the attention" husband the fast track to scary shit.

Personally I think SA is utter bullsh*t. Eggheads excusing bad behavior. That's a common theme among us humans these days. It allows the cheater, like your hubby, to say "I couldn't help it. I'm sick. Take pity on me."

Maybe some people do. I can't stop them. I don't. SA is bullsh*t in my book and I don't care how many nerdy eggheads say otherwise. It's a cop out for people that don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.

Don't let them bully you into having to accept or tolerate anything you don't want to. That is your right.

I politely disagree with some of this. I think that sex addiction is real, so I disagree with that.

I agree that you don't have to condone or tolerate sex addiction.

I have depression and because of that I have anger management issues. Does that mean that it's okay to punch my wife? HELL NO!

You probably should "accept" the fact that he is a sex addict, by which you need to acknowledge that he has a problem... and if you want to reconcile with him that you will need to deal with it because it is going to be part of your life too. You definitely need to make sure that you do not become co-dependent, meaning that you start "protecting him" because he is a sex addict.

You DO NOT have condone his behavior. You could, for example, "accept" (or acknowledge) that he is a sex addict and use that as the principal reason for filing for divorce.

There's a thread in the "I Can Relate" section for spouses of sex addicts.

My husband is a recovering? SA.

There's a bunch of book recommendations on that thread. I'd start reading them. Think about your boundaries..do your work.

You also might see if your husband's CSAT can recommend someone for you to see..I found that a 12 step group wasn't all that useful for me.

Then decide what you can and cannot live with in your marriage. Once you have your boundaries, then your next step is to make sure you can follow up on them.

I wouldn't be concerned about working on the marriage at this point. You can't save a marriage when one partner is an active addict.

Your husband's recovery is his to own. It's hard to detach yourself enough from it..to be an observer...to judge for yourself from what you see..if he is working his recovery or not.

All I can tell you is to try to take good care of yourself. Eat something, sleep, and do something that helps you be more mindful throughout the day.

And do your work. If you do your work, you'll be OK...no matter what happens.

I also wanted to respond to this

Personally I think SA is utter bullsh*t. Eggheads excusing bad behavior. That's a common theme among us humans these days. It allows the cheater, like your hubby, to say "I couldn't help it. I'm sick. Take pity on me."

Maybe some people do. I can't stop them. I don't. SA is bullsh*t in my book and I don't care how many nerdy eggheads say otherwise. It's a cop out for people that don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.

My husband is not a cheater. That is, his addiction hasn't yet escalated to stepping out of the marriage.

My husband watches porn and compulsively masturbates to numb himself from feeling. If he feels unloved or lonely that's his go to coping mechanism.

During round two of discovery, he mentioned to me that he's been like this since as long as he can remember. The first time around, rather than porn, he was using the sears catalog and compulsive masturbation to numb his feelings whilst he was still in HS, perhaps even younger.

I'm curious if you would say that all addiction is a cop-out? That alcoholism and drug addiction is bull, as well?

He told me it meant nothing to him, it was only personalized porn and never felt "real".

This is all minimizing in an attempt to make it seem like not such a big deal. It obviously "meant" something to him because he engaged in it for a very long time. Being "only" personalized porn is supposed to make you feel better that he dumped his time and attention into another woman? Whether he felt it was "real" or not doesn't change the fact of how real your pain is. These words are ALL self-centered and a continuation of the selfish behaviors he has pursued now for years.

It allows the cheater, like your hubby, to say "I couldn't help it. I'm sick. Take pity on me."

IMO, this applies to many types of waywards. A cheater will often come to a point where they need to choose whether to blameshift their actions or take responsibility. For example, a serial cheater may find a character gap that is rooted in their FOO (family of origin). They then have the opportunity to say "I couldn't help it -- my upbringing made me this way!"

However, the warning is valid in that it seems "easier" to take a SA diagnosis down the path of the line of thinking "It's a sickness. S/he can help it. I need to stand alongside through the process forward."

I simply look at SA as being a diagnosis that (1) there is an identifiable pattern (2) that stems from a broken character, (3) there are specific approaches/techniques to try to deal with it and (4) it is deeply rooted and difficult to correct without the SA's commitment and the right treatment.

Has anyone had any experience with this?

Unfortunately, yes. For me, one of the hardest elements was coming to understand that a SA diagnosis means a lifetime of effort to remain "sober" and that the odds of doing so are not very high.

My recommendations for you are:

1. As already mentioned, go into the "I Can Relate" forum to find the thread specifically for spouses of sex addicts.

2. Be very, very wary about codependency as it is something that often surfaces in spouses with any type of addictive behavior. "Women Who Love Too Much" or "Codependent No More" are both books that can help detail what that would look like.

3. Take a step back to allow your mind to clear and to focus on your own healing. You don't need to make a quick decision, but it is vital to your own health to not be so entangled such that it is difficult for you to discern what is best for you both short and long term.

4. Even with the best CSAT and SA groups, things ultimately come down to your WS's self-motivation and desire to change. You'll need to be very, very careful not to get sucked into believing words and promises. You'll need to carefully watch actions and attitudes to give you insight into your WS's heard/mind in order to tell if he is really doing the work to change.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 4:12 PM, April 21st (Friday)]

(((Karat24))) My fwh was diagnosed as SA by professional CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist). There are a ton of resources for the spouse of an SA. The therapist should be able to point you in the right direction. Being a sex addicts doesn't excuse any behavior or mean that they don't need to own their shit. If your wh is ready to own his shit and get help for his addiction that is a good start. You will need to get help to heal from this as well. Check out the thread in I can relate, get information about csat in your area, I went to group therapy for partners. If nothing else I found I was not alone. I also attend a 12 step program which has been very helpful for me.

There are people who don't believe this a real addiction and I have had people tell me that alcoholism is not a real addiction either. All I know is that my father drank himself to death and my husband has been diagnosed SA. I guess the only ones who know the truth are the ones afflicted with an addiction. I'm sure none of them thought when they were kids, "hey, I think I will grow up to be a sex addict." I know I have had a really hard time wrapping my mind around this and I have lived with it. So take what you need and leave the rest. There is real support here for you.

I am married to a SA in long term recovery. It is possible. I know several other men (and their wives) who are also in long term recovery.

SA is a process disorder, much like gambling and shopping. Albeit far more traumatic to the partner. It is essentially a disorder of intimacy. It has its roots in childhood, often as a way of dealing with chaos in their FOO. Masturbation is often referred to as "the first addiction" because kids don't need any outside substance to engage. Obviously, some masturbation is normal, but when it becomes an activity that interferes with life, it can be addictive. Porn addiction is rampant, it's so much easier to use an inanimate object than to interact with a real, complicated person. While it is NOT defined in the DSM or ICD, it is referred to, indirectly. And let's not forget that autism was once described as caused by the mother's inability to bond with a baby!

The diagnosis is important primarily because the TREATMENT for SA is specific and intense. Anyone who thinks this is a convenient excuse has no idea how difficult recovery work is. It requires much time and painful introspection. My H went through a real, true withdrawal effect.

That said, there is VERY LITTLE you can do to enforce sobriety or help him with his recovery work. It has to be his decision and his work. He has to do it for himself or it will not stick.

There are things you can do.

*Educate yourself. The first page of the thread "Spouse of Sex Addicts" in the I Can Relate Forum has a bunch of resources. Start there.

*Get yourself to an IC of your own, preferably a CSAT or one who is intimately acquainted with addiction.

*Try an SANON group. They aren't for everyone, but they provide RL feedback and connection, and help you understand how to establish boundaries and know the limitations of your power in this horrible situation.

Consider posting in our forum. You'll find compassion and empathy there.

Many hugs to you.

PS I sent you a PM, too.

Yes, he has been diagnosed by a professional.

You mean by his therapist or marriage counselor? Because therapists and MCs aren't qualified to make that diagnosis. Only a qualified CSAT is.

And quite honestly, this doesn't sound like sex addict behavior at ALL. But it does sound like he's trying to blame 'porn' for his crap behavior.

A lot of men are copping to this plea today - ANYTHING but take actual accountability for their behavior. It's much easier to try to blame it on a disorder. All they have to do is tell a therapist that they're way into porn and that therapist will run with it. It's so common nowadays.

Women cheaters don't have this handy little excuse to use when they're caught. They actually have to take accountability.

Anyway, all of us know what you're going through. You came to the right place.

And lastly, his 'story' about having a 9 year affair with someone (which is not typical of sex addicts) and it feeling like "porn" only is a steaming pile of manure. All he's trying to do is make you feel better by claiming he had 'no' emotional attachment to her.

All he's trying to do is cover his hide - using any excuse and story he can get his hands on.

When (or IF) he actually mans up and takes accountability for his actions and stops giving you lies and excuses, you might have a fighting chance at true reconciliation.

[This message edited by NoMercy at 8:19 AM, April 22nd (Saturday)]

As you can see, sex addiction is a topic that is controversial. Don't let that dismay you. You're going through enough right now. Just think of it as an option, as something that may explain a major portion of his behavior. Like Scaredy said, it is NOT an excuse or a "Get Out of Jail Free" card; it's a diagnosis with real treatment steps for both of you.

The first S-Anon group I went to was very difficult for me and, frankly, unhelpful to me. It could've been timing. It could've been aversion (this can't be real, can it?). It could've been depression. It could've been any number of reasons.

The second group I tried was a much better fit. We clicked. For me, although the readings and comments were educational, it was the chatting before and after that was so valuable for me. It was therapeutic to vent, to see women similar to myself (educated, strong, loving), to unburden myself, to learn. That group was 75 minutes away. Completely worth the time.

I moved and am now 2 hours away from the closest group so haven't attended. But I'm in a better place now. I got the support I so desperately needed IRL and can function on my own now. I read (but seldom post) faithfully in the Spouses of Sex Addicts thread in the I Can Relate forum. Just try it. If it helps you, it doesn't matter whether anyone else believes in SA, does it? Atheists claim there is no God; my belief in him comforts me. Who cares who's right? What matters is me. Plain and simple. Right now, the only thing that matters is healing YOU!

Hugs. RS

[This message edited by RippedSoul at 8:45 AM, April 22nd (Saturday)]

Slight t/j. Why is it that the diagnosis must be professional? Drug addicts and alcoholics can and do self select, get into recovery and thus, take full responsibility and accountabiliy for the CHOICES they made to cheat in any form, porn, online affairs, etc. A CSAT is very useful to help wade through the muck in a specialized way, but someone in TRUE recovery is required to do that same work. It's HARD. It takes TONS of TIME. That is often difficult for an already neglected and traumatized spouse. But it's necessary.

Trust me there are no excuses bandied about in true recovery, peers will quickly see through and confront the crap. I've seen failures, people who continue to say "it isn't my fault, I'm an addict!" You will never hear this from someone in recovery.

I'm fortunate in that I know a fair amount of successfully recovering addicts. As well as active addicts, and some "nomal" souls. Without an exception, the people in recovery are the most serene, happy, honest people. They've dug through there shit, spend time everyday assessing their actions and trying to consider their feelings. The behave THOUGHTFULLY. Normal people may not have addressed their shortcomings, although some have. Active addicts are babies, selfish assholes who love only their Addiction and don't care who they harm n that pursuit. They can also appear Charming and attentive. But it's all to further the goal.

Sex Addiction isn't about promiscuity. It's about dulling the senses with a process that allows one to avoid true emotional intimacy and true feeling. This isn't a cookie cutter disease. Some flit from person to person, some have LTA, some explore porn, getting more and more extreme as the normal stuff doesn't work anymore. They engage in fantasy and get caught in the addiction cycle. https://www.google.com/m?q=addiction+cycle&client=ms-opera-mobile&channel=new&espv=1#imgrc=LomfUkpvytgwbM:

And women do become SAs, although for the ones I know, it was a desperate search for Mr. Goodbar.

Partners have a horrific time with SAs, more so than other addictions. Imo. All addicts reject their spouse in one way or another, but SAs REPLACE us with other people. Spouses absolutely need to pursue their own mental health agressively.

Sex addiction is real and dangerous. It kills, too.

Who cares who attached the label, or even if there is a label, if effective help become the outcome?

[This message edited by scaredyKat at 10:59 AM, April 22nd (Saturday)]

I agree that labels have become so numerous as to be laughable.

My favorite one is restless leg syndrome, or irritable bowel syndrome. (Please continue to read. I am in no way discounting anyone's condition.) Fibromyalgia...and I have that one.

It is easy to think that people are using a label as an excuse.

But the truth is that IMHO any diagnosis is just a name put to corresponding symptoms.

It's called pneumonia when there is fluid on the lungs, difficult to breathe, bacteria present, etc. (Can you tell I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on tv)

It's called hypothyroidism when your thyroid isn't doing its job and another gland has to pitch in. It causes symptoms, and so they put a name to it.

We used to just say that our friend wouldn't eat, or would throw up after she ate because she thought she was fat. Now it has a name.

I personally believe fibromyalgia is an indication of a toxic body. But I know for damn sure that I have the symptoms that have been given that name.

Many conditions cannot be diagnosed via blood tests, etc., but by ruling out other things. They told me I had fibromyalgia after they touched some pressure points on my body to determine tenderness/pain.

My doctor agreed with me.....said that often, when a large group of people have similar symptoms, in order to be able to treat, test, and/or prescribe AND have the insurance cover it - it is given a name.

But, my point is that whether something is a symptom, a disease, a syndrome, or any other label, is not the point. The point is the symptoms. The point is the behaviors.

I have 15 of the often quoted 16 symptoms of Hashimoto's disease. The truth is, I don't give a shit what it is called, or if it is called anything at all (as long as my insurance covers meds, treatment, etc.)

Obviously, if a person acts out in certain ways, certain ways that are far out of the norm, there is an issue. Is it a disease? That depends on the specialists who decide when to give names to things.

But with or without a name, the symptoms/behaviors are there.

If someone uses a SA diagnosis as an excuse, well, that is ludicrous. But when it is not an excuse, but rather a cause, with possible treatment, with the person seeking that treatment, then, IMHO, that is a different situation altogether.

And, if naming something and providing treatment for it can be helpful, then I say, AMEN!

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 10:56 AM, April 22nd (Saturday)]

Well said, Whatsright. I need to add something. There is a high percentage of SAs who were abused as children. In many ways. Compulsive masturbation became their escape. And there are also a fair number with an organic brain disease, depression or bipolar disorder. An evaluation by a good psychiatrist would be on my boundary list if I'd just found out.

Imo, some illnesses, NPD, sociopathic behavior, does not set the stage for successful recovery.

I have a bunch of stories, successes and failure that has brought me to these opinions.

Ymmv

[This message edited by scaredyKat at 11:11 AM, April 22nd (Saturday)]