SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

All I think about is was she saying this stuff to him, was she doing all this stuff with him, did she enjoy him more than me.

Yeah, she's saying the same stuff to him as she said to you. No, she does not enjoy him more than you, though it is "new," and maybe "different," that's all, but already she's used to it, so not so new anymore, just different.

It's common to accuse back, the old "the best defense is a good offense" thing. And though it's common, it may be one of several things, but probably she wants to have the moral high ground, or at least equal moral footing. I've had girlfriends who cheated on me and begged me to cheat, too, so we can be even and then move on. Of course, it doesn't work that way, but you can see, it's all about her.

If she was saying "you can never forgive her" I would think it was coming from "we can be even and both forget about it and move on," otherwise I would go with her not wanting you to have the moral high ground.

It is DARVO, pure and simple.

"What is DARVO?

DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim -- or the whistle blower -- into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of "falsely accused" and attacks the accuser's credibility or even blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation."

http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html

Yeah I've been reading all this stuff. All the rewriting of history telling me she hasn't been happy for awhile. Told me he makes her feel "like a women".

I've found myself having increase anger towards the other guy, he gets to have her when it's convienent to him and due to the fact that he's sleeping with my wife, not very noble of actions.

The kids come home today, unfortunately the news will have to be broken, my wife will be too much of a coward to say anything.

As for the bedroom I threw her shit out, she's sleeping in the guest room.

[This message edited by yankees99 at 8:41 AM, March 10th (Friday)]

Best of luck this weekend with the kids and congrats on booting her to the guest room.

Many if not most cheating wives enjoy the feeling feminine" or "feeling desired" or as she said "feeling like a woman." It is somewhat a traditional gender role, she enjoying that he vigorously pursues her boldly, confidently, even arrogantly. Maybe she likes feeling protected. There is a kind of "Knight in shining armor" aspect of it, nobility, and as my wife told me, "honorable." She likes that he knows her true value as sexual romantic woman - after all, that's all there is in an affair. She is comparing him to you, and she is not bright enough to see the apples to oranges differences between those two relationships. If you want the affair feelings, never get married, or it will turn into your marriage with kids and finances and chores mostly overriding sex and romance for extended periods of time. Obviously she is focusing on the bold romance and sexuality, and not the cheating lying behind the back aspect, in the feeling like a woman comment.

Perception is reality in her head, and she wants those feelings to continue; arguably in a long-term marriage, she can't get those feelings from you.

Hi. I'm sorry you're faced with this, but it's great you found this site. You'll get lots of advice here, mostly good, take what you want and don't be scared away from this site by the rest. The advice you've received thus far is very good.

Having said that, here's some of my advice&questions, some already mentioned:

1. Go see a GOOD lawyer IMMEDIATELY! Don't let her know you've been to see one. If possible, go see at least two lawyer, yjust so you'll have a frame of reference with regards to their costs etc. Seeing a lawyer will help you know your options and that you'll be acting from a position of knowledge of your legal situation.

2. Go buy a VAR (voice activated recorder) or a GoPro thingy immediately and use it to record all your interactions with her. She might try to falsely accuse you of domestic violence to the police. Better safe than sorry, and there have been betrayed husbands here who were hit with false DV charges. I know you probably think she wouldn't do that, but considering her cheating you don't know her as well as you did. As all of us who were betrayed thought we knew our partners. Furthermore, if possible, ask a friend to stay with you for a while under some false pretext, to act as a witness against her false allegations.

3. Set up individual counselling for yourself IMMEDIATELY! You need professional help in dealing with this level of betrayal&shock. Find someone with experience in infidelity and/or PTSD. That was paramount in bearing the pain and healing myself. This is a great thread on selecting a good IC - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=544948 . Also, read up on EMDR therapy - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=571247 .

4. Go see your doctor about STD testing. Be aware that if you have sex with her, you risk getting an STD and perhaps even getting her pregnant.

6. C(ontinue to c)onfide in and lean on your friends&family about this. You need and deserve their support.

7. If the other men have wives/gfs, it's paramount to tell them. They deserve to know, just as you deserved to know. Don't trust the other men or your wife that they've been told. Check out this - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=576398&AP=1&HL= .

8. Make sure you eat, sleep and exercise as much as possible. If you're having trouble, talk to your doctor or a pharmacist. DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL. It's way too easy to spiral out of control. I stopped myself quite close to becoming an alcoholic in the aftermath of it all.

9. Google "No more mr. nice guy pdf", it's a great book available online for free that might be a source of great strength and self-esteem for you, as it was for me. Also, google "Codependent no more pdf", also available online for free. If you like the books, buy them or get them from the library so the author will be compensated as well. Another great book to read on this topic is "Married man sex life primer", I'd recommend you go to the library and get a copy of it, but that's more suitable for later on and can wait.

10. Go to the "I can relate" subforum here and check out the "Betrayed menz" thread on the first page. Read and post there, it's a great place for betrayed men.

11. If you are giving her yet another chance, she needs to go to IC at least for a month before you two even consider MC together. I recommend YOU find a good IC for HER, one that you will know has a no-nonsense approach to infidelity (knows that cheating is 100% cheater's fault,...) and go to her first session with her to make sure the counsellor knows all about the cheating. Only after that should you try MC with her.

12. Google "How to help your spouse heal linda macdonald pdf", it's a great book available online for free that might help you two tremendously. Read it on your own at first. The best book for me on infidelity is "Not just friends", look it up in the library.

13. What was her and your childhood/youth like? Please, google "Toxic parents pdf", it's a great book available online for free. Also, check out "Families and how to survive them" in your library, it opened my eyes on the topic of childhood issues and how they connect to adult relationships.

14. I think it's important that you tell her that as a condition for you to attempt to reconcile with her is for her to write you a detailed timeline of the affair(s). Upon telling her, notify her you'll want her to undertake a polygraph test afterwards to ascertain you have the full truth. Tell her that lying will do more damage than any truth will.

15. A phrase that I've heard a lot here and with which I agree is that you must be willing to lose the marriage(relationship) to save it. You mustn't think of her as the prize and you mustn't approach this from a position of weakness, of you trying to win her back by being nice etc. You must get therapy, you must get into the mindset that you will be ok even if you divorce and that you will not settle for rugsweeping or anything less than her being fully remorseful and committed to redeeming herself and helping you heal.

16. If she continues to have contact with him/them despite you demanding she stops, and if you'll want to stop the cheating, or if she'll continue to be unremorseful, EXPOSE HER CHEATING to her friends&family and/or SERVE HER WITH DIVORCE PAPERS. Remember, even if you serve her, you can always stop the divorce later if she proves remorseful etc. But it's a good wake-up call for the cheater that very often works.

17. A divorce would be hard on you and the kids. When it comes to them, it is, however, much better for the kids to not see you everyday if that means that they won't grow up in a toxic household due to their mom's cheating, disrespect,..., where their dad is being destroyed emotionally due to their mom's actions. What the kids need to grow up emotionally happy, mature and strong young adults is to have at least a part of their lives emotionally healthy and safe (i.e. the days they will spend with you), to have at least one parent (i.e. you) emotionally stable and healthy (and you can't be that if you remain with a cheating, unremorseful spouse) and to have access to a good children's therapist (it's up to you to get them to see a good therapist). Please, consult a good therapist for kids to hear his/her opinion before you decide to stay married to her because of the kids.

18. You DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE RIGHT NOW whether to give her another chance or not, whether to reconcile. That decision can wait for quite some time (but make sure waiting to make the decision doesn't hurt you legally, financially, physically/health-wise,... -> talk to your lawyer etc.). Remember, even if you start the divorce proceedings, you can stop them. And even if you finish the divorce proceedings, you can still reconcile with her despite divorcing her. If she's truly remorseful, she will be desperate to get you back even if you divorce her. And if she'll be willing to stay without you despite the divorce, it will be a good sign she's doing that not because she wants the financial,..., security of the marriage, but because of you. So again, no need to make quick decision.

Also, like others have said, it's a roller-coaster, being cheated on. It's one of the most shocking and traumatic things you'll ever experience in life. It is perfectly understandble to be dazed and confused from all this, to not know what exactly to do, to feel one thing one moment and another the next moment. As time goes by and you work on healing yourself, things will get considerably better.

What's crucial is that you don't make any really bad decisions in this first stage of being totally mentally fuc-ed up, like getting her pregnant, getting an STD, you cheating on her with someone else and thereby demeaning yourself, you becoming an alocoholic, crashing a car, beating him up and ending in jail etc.

19. Also, check out these two threads, I try to read them regularly - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=568211&AP=21&HL= and http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=514479&AP=1&HL= .

20. Most of all, keep talking to us, the more you talk to us, the more we can help you and support you!

Best wishes

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is so painful to go through. You deserve better than this. Stay strong and know you are going to get through it. Get to a counselor. Talk to someone you trust. But don't blame yourself.

So she hasn't signed the papers and so far hasn't initiated no contact. Told me her and the OM need to have communication with him for work matters. So my wife is an RN but works in an office type setting and visits patients houses. Half of her job is communicating with the colleagues about the patients dosages medicine and all that stuff. I am not okay with this.

I guess I need to move forward with divorce until she breaks it off. No regards for my feelings whatsoever. Kids also know and they let their mom have it and are refusing to speak to her.

[This message edited by yankees99 at 9:15 AM, March 11th (Saturday)]

Good, now she can't hide where her priorities are.

She will either drop the OM or she will continue, at least you will know without a doubt.

Yankees99, I hope to find you well (eating?)

I'm glad to hear you have told your children and in-laws.

Not only is this your best hope for ending your wifes affair, but it also allows you more supportive people in your corner. Loved ones to lean on and all that.

You are doing things right. Keep listening and posting.

Sending strength.

Yankee, you're doing OK. Keep it up. One way or another, it will get better.

NC means NC. She's still in the Fog. Trying to justify the contact. Kind of sad

Yankee,

Well done on the exposure even though it was hellish for you to have to tell the kids. A conversation no betrayed parent should have to experience.

Told me her and the OM need to have communication with him for work matters. So my wife is an RN...

RN's are in short supply everywhere. She could get another job. Selfishness. She Nukes the family but won't shift her employment?

I guess I need to move forward with divorce until she breaks it off

The D should move forward even if she breaks it off. You can pull back, slow it down, etc.. You'd have to see a whole lot more from her before backing off on the D.

Dropping the papers on her didn't knock her off the fence. The next step may have to be broadening the exposure.

She signs or you tell the employer. You'll hear that her losing her job will cost you $ in a D. Judges look at earning capacity. She is in a critically short supply occupation that is portable.

If you going to D then NC doesn't matter does it?

Are you looking for something from her to give you a reason to stay in the marriage? Were her adultery and actions after DD deal breakers for you?

Stay strong, keep posting.

Sorry you are here..i went from 190lbs to 165lb in 4.5 weeks when she blindsided me in 1994.I discovered a sexually explicit card to him before she sent it...almost perfect image of her.. in black g-string, garter belt, exposed breasts..the caption COFFEE, TEA, OR ME...the inside caption 'which-ever you choose , you will be UP all night'....the exact lingerie on our wedding night, every anniversary, vacation to the islands, europe...i found it on Valentines Day, my 48th birthday 1994.

I went to her office, she was sec to bank president, and corporate sec to the board. She involved with a coworker's brother..ex-con...car theft, owed her bank $18k in delinquency.

She was forced to confess...i walked out...went to my laywer...filed...then followed the sheriff to the bank and watched him serve her in the bank lobby..drove to her mother's and explained why she would be bringing all her belongings to her house later that afternoon..called her professional organization for which she was president and told the organization's VP that i filled for divorce...she was asked to step down..SPREAD THE WORD....

In 3 weeks she discovered the OM, the brother, had been married 4 times (he told her he was married once about 8 years prior to meeting her)...she also discovered he was being investigated by state police for cocain distribution..was vice wizard of KKK..

She and the sister were fired by the bank..very Catholic family..her mother came down hard...

She was humiliated royally in our town of 25k...did she learn a lesson from the PUBLICATION of her behavior...AND HOW!!!

My swift action ended the A immediately..she has been a model 'wife' every since..

Good luck

She works for like this private facility, don't know the exact term but she said she is under contract. I don't know. I told her to get a lawyer to try and get out of it and she said she will tomorrow. I guess she took that I was talking to her as an invite for her to invite herself in the shower with me. We would take showers together sometimes but of course it didn't feel right anymore I told her to leave and she kept rubbing against me. Once again she's always been a HL, I say on average throughout our marriage we've had sex four times a week, sometimes five. Was not going to have sex with her, who knows what her and the coworker did.

Told me she used protection. Nice to know atleast she practiced safe sex while riding her co worker. I told to show me her fb chats with him. Fucking hell mate. Talk about ego crushing. Knowing your wife was intimate with another man is I think the biggest blow a man can take. It's horrible.

How are the kids doing?

Spend all their time out of the house and don't speak to her.

I guess she took that I was talking to her as an invite for her to invite herself in the shower with me.

Be careful with that. Depending on where you live, resuming sexual contact can be construed by the court as tacit forgiveness, taking adultery off the table as grounds.

She works for like this private facility, don't know the exact term but she said she is under contract. I don't know. I told her to get a lawyer to try and get out of it and she said she will tomorrow

She may have to pay for the job ads to find a replacement, wait for the replacement to be trained, and pay back any bonuses she may have gotten if she hasn't fulfilled the terms.

If they won't let her out of the contract she'll have to tell them why she has to leave. I hope her leaving is non negotiable to you.

The initiating sex is a typical tactic. "And honey, no worries...even though I had PIV it was protected"

Yankee:

I'm finding myself quite confused. I was under the impression that D was a foregone conclusion and that R is off the table. I would certainly understand that based on her openly going to live with OM for a week, Frankly I would have a hard time even talking to her after that.

My confusion comes in on what is happening now because Things like her quitting her job and trying to climb in the shower with you are acts of a WW trying to keep the marriage.

I'm not sure why you would be pushing for her to leave her place of employment as this is contrary to your best interest if D is the only option. I had the impression that she has already made the decision she is leaving you for him so now it is just a matter of getting the paperwork finalized so why would you want her to be unemployed or underemployed.

The whole issue with the shower is even more puzzling. Is she trying to convince you to stay in an open marriage? is her end game that she wants to stay married but have the ok to carry on with him as well?

If D is the only option you are faced with right now than detachment is the best thing for you. Whether it is regarding her job or her whereabouts in the evening it doesn't concern you. Stick to the business at hand which is the dissolution of the marriage.