SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yankee

Just so you know where I am coming from. I’m a former cop and I received and applied extensive training in situation control. It’s a methodology used by the military for officer training. You evaluate the data you have, draw a conclusion, plan how to act to the situation, give the orders (sometimes only to yourself) and then ACT.

That action might cause changes to the situation. Sometimes expected changes – sometimes unexpected.

So, you simply reevaluate, reanalyze, plan and ACT.

Like if I came across two men arguing and one had a gun I wouldn’t be focusing on why they argued or who was right, nor would I start writing tickets to illegally parked cars or be watching speeders. I would focus on the biggest threat: the gun. I would make sure the threat was removed before I focused on anything else. At the same time, I would keep my eyes and senses open for other changes. If the other guy pulled a gun I would reevaluate and act.

I have used the same methodology for a lot of situations in my personal- and professional life: Evaluate, plan and act. Evaluate, readjust (if necessary) and act. Key here is act. Act. Act. Take action. Sometimes that action is to wait, but always a defined or expected result. Always react to the result. Keep momentum…

This is what I suggest for infidelity.

What you are dealing with is SO SERIOUS. It’s a gun that’s already been fired and seriously wounding your marriage. Maybe even fatally. But right now, you need to ACT. Evaluate -> plan -> act…

To me then locking the door to the bedroom and fleeing to a motel… those are emotional reactions rather than thought-out processes. When I see emotional actions, I try to see what causes them – what message are you trying to get across?

Look Yankee – Your wife wasn’t home… locking yourself in the bedroom is a cry for attention to some issue IMHO. Not getting a response and therefore going to a motel… IMHO that’s also a cry for some attention. It’s a cry for some change. A cry that your wife does something… A cry for change. Only the simple fact your wife had an affair is a darned good indicator she isn’t capable of understanding your signals or cries.

I want to listen to that cry and understand it rather than teach you how to cry out louder. Once we – I, you and the other good people here on SI – understand what you want we can help you evaluate and plan.

I want to hear from you what you want, what you fear and what your long-term goal is. I – and SO MANY OTHER POSTERS HERE – can help you evaluate, plan and then YOU can act.

But Yankee – Nothing will change unless YOU take action. There is no wrong action other than inaction.

I know it's got to feel like you are talking a lot of actions. I filed, I exposed to the kids, I gave her the papers, I stopped doing "family" things with her, ...but you are also seem to be playing the waiting game. Let's see if she quits this time...meanwhile she is talking about how unfair it would be for OM to lose his job...shes not remorseful.

She moved in with OM for a week and told you she didn't love you anymore. You filed on March 5th. She is doing the minimum of what you ask her to do while complaining about how unfair it is.

So, don’t tell her she needs to quit her job and then wait for action. Don’t tell her she needs to tell her boss and then wait for action.

All you need to do is tell her YOU are moving out of infidelity. She is free to choose to remain in infidelity, but if she wants to come with you she needs to assure you the affair is over. She needs to show you that NC is in place. She needs to tell you all YOU need to know – not what she wants to tell.

When she asks you what assurances you need then it’s things like telling the boss, quitting the job, opening her social-media, working on IC, doing MC… the works.

Regarding the assurances: IF she’s willing to do the work then you should consider guiding her. Like it might be an idea that you phone her boss and explain that if your wife wants a shot at her marriage she needs to quit and that you think you might have a case for sexual harassment if Mr. Boss is reluctant to comply (plus it will let you know if she’s being honest…).

But… if she’s wallowing around and – at best – taking semi-action YOU keep your momentum and move out of infidelity.

At this point what do you really want? Do you want a divorce because she just doesn't get it and isn't a safe partner or do you want to reconcile?

As was mentioned many times, she doesn't need to sign the papers. You can move forward without her signature.

So this right here is exactly what my concern was previously.

You are in no place to make any decisions regarding R or D but your WW has certainly been making a lot of choices for you.

All the conditions you put on her were misleading. Saying that she had to go NC with OM and quit her job lead her to believe this would make everything all better, period. so now that she has done what she believes is meeting your conditions to the loosest possible interpretation, you should just shut up and forget this trivial little issue.

IF you want to R, and frankly I have no idea why you would, but if you do, you are doing everything wrong.

For starters you are never going to get past this betrayal if you can't convince yourself that she chose you and left him for you. You won't be able to do that if you have to walk her along the path of what she has to do.

She has to make the choice to go NC with other man and not because you told her to but because she chose you.

She has to start working on boundaries and helping you heal. All she is doing is placating your petty grievances to shut you up.

It is so obvious to everyone here that you are getting played but you cant see it. The problem is that let's say you do R, 6 months from now you are going to realize that the only prize you won was a lot of questions in your mind, a huge shot to your ego as you go through the rest of your life as a second choice, and a wife that is going to walk all over you.

Whether the desire is R or D both require strength, continued weakness will only result in the current status quo.

While I normally respect Bigger, I must say that I completely disagree with his assessment in this situation, Y99. Although one motivation for locking your door, and leaving your house, may have been "childish," as not so lightly pointed out, I think another overwhelming reason is that you need physical space.

I suspect you need some physical space to feel safe, such as by locking a bedroom door, or going to a hotel, to sort your feelings and thoughts. When I was in your shoes, I needed the same as well. Thankfully for me I had to go on a business trip halfway across the world just after learning that she had cheated. The trip gave me space and time to think about what I needed and wanted. Ultimately I chose to divorce. Your decision may the same, or it may be different.

As I am sure you are, utilize this time to think about what you need and want for the future. Do not let someone who has never had to think about the same things you need to consider at this moment such as, but not limited to, alimony, childrens' graduations, childrens' birthdays, family holidays, childrens' weddings, etc., to weigh to heavily on your mind at the moment. You do you at the moment! Do not let others who have never had to consider these issues weigh too heavily in your decisions at this time.

Locking our bedroom door wasn't to get back at her really. It was for space I just needed, she spent the night crying telling her family how I am being difficult. I just expected her to go off on a temper tantrum and I needed some sleep after that rough day.

I don't know what I want. I feel like a chump if I stay with her. She left me to be with this other guy and I had to look at all the graphic texts of her telling him what she was going to do to him and knowing that she did indeed do all that stuff.

I just imagine her and the OM laughing at me while doing it in his bed. We had a week of false reconciliation, which she was still texting him throughout the entire week. I am starting to think that it's not even what I want anymore.

It just sucks. Feels like my manhood has been taken away from me. I have based my happiness on hers too long. If we reconcile the marriage will never be like it was before.

[This message edited by yankees99 at 11:29 AM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

If we reconcile the marriage will never be like it was before.

That's because it wouldn't be. The WS nukes the old marriage. It's gone. The innocence and the trust is lost. It's never the way it once was.

I read once that about 75% of couples choose to stay together after infidelity. Of those, about half will have a satisfactory recovery. The other half continue living together but take no joy in the relationship.

We all feel like chumps when we've been betrayed, and the kneejerk reaction (particularly when there are children involved) is to try to save it. When you recognize that the old marriage is dead, it leaves you wondering if you would marry the cheater in front of you again. For most of us, the answer would be an unqualified 'no'. That is, unless we're dealing with a genuinely repentant WS.

This is why remorse from the WS with full responsibility for their actions and zero blame-shifting makes such a huge difference. If you imagine you've got no other factors to weigh other than "do I want to be married to the person in front of me exactly as they are?", you begin to see the difficulty. In her current state, your WW would probably be unacceptable to you.

She's got to make up for having treated you like a chump in order to fix this. She hasn't put in a sufficient effort yet, and not enough time has elapsed for even a full-on remorseful one to be effective.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 12:03 PM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

Feels like my manhood has been taken away from me.

Kristin Stewart cheated on Robert Pattinson, who (at least at the time) was one of the most desirable men in the world.

It's not about you, it's about her.

My feeling is you have been a little submissive/she has been a little domineering in your marriage (well you have said it yourself). That may be the reason she was so belligerent in her actions. She never expected you to file. Notice she immediately changed her stance when she got the papers. I do not think she has much regard for you. Now after romp she realized other repercussions she has to face hence her interest in R.she may have given a sanitized version to her family. You better let them know about the week she dissapeared. If you R you have to ge more controlling. In my opinion many men who are facing infidelity have been a little timid in their marriages

[This message edited by goalong at 5:31 PM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

Totally agree goalmg, was certainly there myself.

After this last A, I came out of my depression with a vengeance and completely freaked my fWW out, she was scared at first because I was/am so different.

She understands I'm no longer just going to comply with her wants to get along...everything goes through me, I am the final authority in all things now, unless I delegate the responsibility.

Her normal wifely homemaking duties are left to her, outside of the budget which I set.

I have say who she spends time with, etc, and she voluntarily complies.

If at any point my boundaries are no longer acceptable, it will quickly end in D.

It's that simple, and she knows I'm not bluffing.

A common enough thing I post, and I'm sorry if I already posted to you is, that her behaviors - her ACTIONS, not words - have shown quite obviously that she does not love you or respect you. Right down to fighting against you about the bedroom, refusing to sign the divorce papers, etc.

So given that she does not love you and does not respect you, then why is she here trying to stay married? Money? Stability? Reputation? Kids? No other viable options?

Hey, I've seen many, many, many, MANY women I met as a younger man who hadn't ever been "single" - went from one romantic relationship into the next. Overlapping, practically, even when no infidelity was involved. Is that it for your wife - can't be without a man? And you know what else - I have been reading this shit for a long time and I still have some issues - and I know a lot, not because I'm smart, but because I read a lot - and from what I could see, it is extremely rare for wife cheaters who WILLINGLY become "single." Very, very few. Either they want their lover, or they want their husband, but they rarely want to be "single." Why is that? I really don't know, but something is wrong about that there. Jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

So if your wife is not going to be with other man, then she is going to try to be with you. If you divorce her, she may be single because other man is not viable, doesn't want her full time, bit off more than he could chew, the sex was good, but who needs the baggage? Or maybe it wasn't his cup of tea, the sex she wanted? Who knows? To me, it is obvious enough, that dude wanted to fuck and fuck alone - he didn't give a flying fuck about your wife besides sex. He put up with what he must in order to get what he wanted.

I'm assuming that through your marriage, before the affair, when everything was good - you didn't overly text and message and communicate your wife. A handful of times a day, maybe not even. I don't think that is unusual for a man, I am a man, and I don't want to be the representative for my sex, but I don't know many men, if any, who like to text all damn day. Would prefer to set up a meeting and go meet. So I always wonder with these so-called men who fuck other men's wives. Number one, where I came from, you could get an ass-kicked at minimum, and most would say you got what you deserved. Number two, with all due respect to any upstanding men who like to post about sex all damn day, but what's up with these guys? It's got to be that mostly they just want the sex, right?

I mean, your piece of shit other man, that guy couldn't enjoy having to keep texting and working it all day long, could he? The sex drive is primal, but damn, that's too much damn work for me. I don't need the baggage of that kind of all the texting and sexting and all that shit every morning, noon, and night. I don't have the stamina to keep after that, even if my values would allow it.

So anyway, sorry for my rant, but yes, I agree, it's tough to swallow watching her defiantly thumb it in your face the way she did, and afterward she didn't even give you a good fake hysterical hyperventilating snot-blowing cry, she kind of just stayed basically defiant and in-your-face. Ask her for a good hysterical hyperventilating snot-blowing bawling rolling on the floors flailing arms fit - it helped take the sting out of it for me.

We had a week of false reconciliation, which she was still texting him throughout the entire week.

She works with him, no? Do you think she is having "no contact" at work?

Does she still say she "broke his heart?" Or am I thinking of another thread?

Damn I never knew how much control she feels she's had over me. Thinks I will just do anything for her. Damnit I have throughout our entire marriage. Practically worshipping the ground she walked on. I can't do that anymore.

Three people have recommended you download a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy." Have you done it?

When I found out about the affair, it was through incriminating texts. Confronted her, she admitted she was having an emotional affair with him and seemed genuinely sorry. Throughout the week she acted like she wanted to reconcile and how sorry he was. She was actually still texting the other guy the whole time, telling him how much she loves him.

They work in the same facility, she is a nurse and he is a "filler position". Works a position that is easily replaceable. They talked during breaks, rubbed her feet in her office, told her how if she was his how she would never have to lift a finger. Funny how he makes much less money than her and me . I think this could of been any guy. She loves being waited on and told she's pretty. He is also a chump. Look at the hoops he had to go through to sleep wth her.

She fell for him, told me she didn't love me anymore went to stay with him to have sex. Mutual friend helped me file for divorce, who I am sure now has a thing for me.

I have read up no mr nice guy, and someone suggested me "red pill". My wife was submissive in bed but she has a dominant alpha-female personality. People have always feared her.

She was a good wife before this, thoughtful and caring. Sweet and attentive, much sex. I am in shape, I find myself decent looking for my age. Wife is physically beautiful, but she is insanely insecure.

She stopped mentioning his broken heart. Told her to stop that shit because I don't care. She said "I was going to choose you anyway, I always will, you're my husband".

I know I can do better. Physically I am feeling better. I don't know where I'm going but I will get out of this mess with or without her.

[This message edited by yankees99 at 9:11 PM, March 21st (Tuesday)]

Wife is physically beautiful, but she is insanely insecure. She said "I was going to choose you anyway, I always will, you're my husband".

My younger brother was always a player, I was not, but he told me years ago, the more beautiful they are, and the more insecure they are, the easier they are to play.

So she is basically telling you she needed the validation of sex from another man to prove to herself she was still sexy. But she never intended to leave you, she just wanted to see if another man would have sex with her. But she was never going to leave the sure thing at home.

You absolutely can do better than her. Keep moving forward.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 8:16 AM, March 22nd (Wednesday)]

The problem is she has very little respect for you.

She does not think she has done anything wrong. She thinks you will be mad for a while but will get over it.

Without empathy and remorse you will never heal.

Keep working on you and keep the d moving.

Yankee

Your last post is possibly the most positive one I have seen from you.

Dealing with infidelity is a bit like being dropped in the middle of a great big and deep lake. Don’t move and you drown. You can tread water but with time you get tired and drown. Your only option is trying to evaluate distance and the flow of the water and start heading towards the nearest shore. Doesn’t really matter if you doggy-paddle, float in the wind or do the crawl. Only thing that matters is to keep momentum and to eventually reach the shore.

Although I think it’s always better to have a destination in mind (R or D) then right now it’s not an issue. She is still in infidelity. She still thinks she can control the situation. You only have one path to take and the only question is how long you are willing to allow her to follow.

Now – I am fairly certain she isn’t “seeing” him, she probably isn’t meeting him in the car-park or in the copy-room. I’m also pretty certain they don’t have chats. But I’m also equally certain that she’s saying hi and maybe having a group-talk with him and the others on coffee breaks. There is contact.

She also is still justifying and/or minimizing the affair. She isn’t owning it. She isn’t realizing the scope of the damage.

I hope you get focus Yankee – If you need space then go get it, but IMHO a discussion with her about living accommodations and contact while you figure out where you want to go is better than staying in a motel or locking doors… I’m assuming you live in a house where you and your whole family lived so there probably is a room or two going spare.

IMHO It’s better to tell your wife that things aren’t’ normal and therefore there won’t be normal husband and wife interaction. You won’t come home and cook dinner or expect dinner for the two of you, you don’t go to social events together… Basically you simply cohabit FOR NOW. When she asks why then you simply state you are heading out of infidelity and until/unless she does so too then that will probably lead you out of this marriage.

And then you swim…

Bigger gives good advice.

As far as the whole "I was always going to choose you," that is just patently ridiculous. She told you she didn't love you and she's going to live with another man for a week, so she knew damn well that could cause the marriage to end. At best, she is messed up in the head. Surely you can see that.

Follow Bigger's advice.

She "was" going to choose you right up until you found out and she ran to his bedroom to get laid.

Maybe she doesn't understand that she actually did choose him a long time ago, when she betrayed you.

Yankkee,

Your thought process is misdirected. When it come to raw feelings the social status does not count. Beside as she says she was always certain you will toe her line and when you file (thank to your friend) she got a shock and now playing to settle things with minimal damage. Unfortunately it looks like you are following her wishes. The things she did were extremely abhorrent even within the subject of cheating. If you want to R you need to go to the extreme end to make her convince her nastiness. The first thing is to let her folks know her romp with the posom.

Another problem i see is how can she cut off the infatuation abruptly especially with the pososm around. Is it humanly possible?I hope Yankee has some kind of monitoring system in place. Also Yankee should subtly encourage/keep the rejection/anger his children have with her going for the time being

[This message edited by goalong at 3:44 PM, March 22nd (Wednesday)]

I know I can do better. Physically I am feeling better. I don't know where I'm going but I will get out of this mess with or without her.

You will do better without her.