SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Resentment has also been what I've been feeling. He seems perfectly fine goes about his days even happier than he was before d-day. And I feel like a freaking crazy lady who goes from fine to angry and then to tears. I have asked myself why do I need to work through so much ? Why am I the only one who seems hurt doesn't really seem fair.

I still have no idea if I can get past the idea that she cheated on me. This could honestly be a deal breaker. We are only 30 and I am not sure I want to look at her for next 50-60 years and think about how she cheated. Whenever I think she is looking nice or attractive, my next thoughts immediately go to her having sex with him and essentially dating him. Don't know if I can handle that long term.

Your old marriage is dead. Your wife essentially killed it by cheating on you with that 50 yo POSOM. She needs to earn her place in a new marriage. That takes a lot more than shedding a few tears well after the dirty deeds have been done. You have to stop salvaging your dead marriage with the standard affair recovery package bundle touted here - MC, IC, the "why" and the healing library, and then waiting for the "2-5 year recovery" period, something akin to snake oil.

Life does not come with such packaged solutions. The path is hard. Firstly, you have to be absolutely sure you have the will and confidence to be happy without depending on your WW. At 30 and no kids, I would suggest you file for legal separation, move out into your own place (your finances permitting), get healthy and heal, date other single people your age. In the meantime, if your WW really wants to be with you, she will bend over backwards to show you by her actions that she wants you. It's quite possible you will find happiness with someone else. It is equally possible you will find happiness again with your wife. But you don't know that now because you have not given yourself the opportunity to make that choice. You are essentially short-changing yourself, and this incongruence is causing you this pain.

[This message edited by redbaron007 at 12:47 AM, February 5th (Sunday)]

She says she does not know what she was thinking.

But did she have an answer to wether or not, during the dates after work, she was sizing him up as a potential option?

Because that is what your gut seems to be telling you.

What I mean is, does she say no way I never thought about being with him instead of you?

Or does she just fall back on the I don't know/remember?

And yea I get the resentment part. They get to have their fun (stabbing us in the process) and then embark on a journey of self-discovery to become a better, safer person. And we are left bleeding. We are faced with having to stich our wounds up. Either by ourselves, or with "help" from the person whom stabbed us in the first place.

“She said we needed to talk more about all this…When I brought up the kiss and then the A, she said she didn't know what she was thinking blah blah but she loves me and never wants to go through all this again. She just doesn’t have answers to any of this.”

I can see why this is so frustrating for you. She says that you need to talk about it, but when you get to the things that trouble you, she has no answers. What she was thinking is at the absolute heart of what happened, why it happened, and whether or not it is likely to happen again (which is your big concern about whether or not to continue the relationship). So far, what you are getting seems to be as basic as – and apologies for the bluntness of this - “I got drunk, I f*cked a guy, sorry. What else can I say?” That just doesn't cut it, because you are left struggling as you to try and make that acceptable to yourself. Umpteen posts in this forum cover the rewards a cheater gets from an A, and your wife has said that she had some of them (feeling like it was exciting to be breaking the rules, etc). Maybe that’s what it was all about. But the problem for the BS is that they are left trying to relate meaningfully to a WS who is capable of letting themselves completely off the hook as and when it suits them (or they are drunk enough).

“According to her the A happened quick. They both got drunk and had sex out of the blue and then she slowly deescalated it from there until she told me. Not the usual story.”

And not a story that hangs together. A drunken one night stand is exactly that. It happens, and the aftermath is usually something like, “Well, that was nice, but we probably shouldn’t do it again. Have a nice life”. If de-escalation afterwards was involved, then there was obviously some escalation beforehand, so the “out of the blue” element is just not true. It was an accident waiting to happen, and getting drunk together pretty much guaranteed that it would. Two grown adults, one thirty and one fifty, would be fully aware of that. More than that, your wife would have been fully aware of how booze makes her sexually irresponsible because of the earlier incident where she got drunk at a wedding and smooched that guy at the bar right in front of you. That was the first “I don’t know what I was thinking, but I do know what I was drinking” incident, which left your wife supposedly doing a lot of self-examination and self-condemnation, and promising to never do it again. The fact that she did it again, and went further with another guy than just a smooch, does bring into question whether she is capable of giving meaningful guarantees of moderating her behaviour in future until she gets to the root of what is causing it. Which is the big dilemma that you are wrestling with.

“She said she wouldn't call it dating (which I guess is semantics, but if you get drinks and hang out after work as more than friends what would you call it?)”

Given the circumstances, not calling it dating is a little more than semantics. It smacks of minimising or denial. Maybe the term for it doesn’t matter, because whatever she chooses to call it, she should not have been doing it. I have a tendency to get sarcastic if I think someone is trying to feed me flim-flam, and my response to the ‘not dating’ thing would have been something like, “So I guess when you had sex with him, you would call it a one-to-one meeting with your manager?” Sorry, that’s just me. The serious point here is that not calling it dating is not just semantics. Minimising is all about not taking responsibility, and that seems to be an emerging theme in your wife’s behaviour. It is like an alcoholic saying, “Well, sure, I like a drink or two every now and then, but I don’t think I have a problem”. Oh, is that why you parked your car in the lake, Bob?

“When I brought up the kiss and then the A, she said she didn't know what she was thinking”

Which is a big problem in itself. She knows what she was thinking, she just does not want to take responsibility for it. Or is she really saying that she abandons thinking completely and indulges in totally thoughtless and impulsive actions with no regard for the consequences? I wonder if she would say that in a job interview? Do you think she would be hired?

The point here is that she cannot keep letting herself off the hook with the “I don’t know” routine. It strikes you as nonsense (because it is), but more importantly, she cannot fix her problem with acting impulsively and irresponsibly, particularly while drunk, until she takes ownership of it. If you went out and shot someone, it is unlikely that the police would stopping asking you questions if you said, “I don’t know” when they asked you why you did it.

“She does feel like shit about herself when she sees me upset about this. Just waiting on her to figure herself out I guess.”

Regret by itself is almost pointless, beyond indicating that she has a conscience. Her noisy regret about the bar smooch did not prevent the A.

“she said…she loves me and never wants to go through all this again. She just doesn’t have answers to any of this.”

Bingo! She needs to let her regret about hurting you become her motivation for exploring her weakness for irresponsible and self-indulgent action, and she needs to fully involve you in that process so you can judge whether or not she is making meaningful progress with it. “I don’t know” has to be transformed into, “I do know, and this is how I am going to manage the problem in future”. She may not want to through it again, but neither do you!

I think the ONLY reason idk can be an answer is that she was honestly too drunk to have any sort of thinking about it. The kiss at the bar could be that. She was terribly hing over the next day. I obviously wasn't there for their sex night but she claims she got very drunk. I agree with you that sex just doesn't happen so I'm sure there was mutual attraction at the office and, from what she's told me, he sounds very flirtatious with many people.

That comment about separation isn't a bad idea, tbh. I want to talk to our counselor about all of this before making any decisions but I think (at least today, again, that I'm leaning towards the thinking that there seems to be almost as many unknowns about my ww than there would be about a stranger. Do I love my ww, I think I do, I used to, but I can never be okay or comfortable with these idk answers.

Is there a timeframe that a wayward needs to figure out the why and all that? I guess I don't want to shortchange her if she legitimately needs time to figure this out? The reasons for staying with him for 3 months were it felt bad breaking the rules and almost felt addicting. She said she felt terrible about the whole thing, the whole time but it kept drawing her back because of how nice it felt.

I can agree with that because she did ultimately tell me and it seems like maybe that was her way of finally ending it because she couldn't do it alone?

Still doesn't explain her looking at him as a potential partner though. What a ride this thing is...

M1965, I just wanted to say that, what with my situation being somewhat similar to Desert's, your insightful exchanges on this thread have been valuable to me. Thank you for taking the time to write such thoughtful stuff.

I can agree with that because she did ultimately tell me and it seems like maybe that was her way of finally ending it because she couldn't do it alone?

I think it is a really good sign that it was a confession. Based on all of the other stories I've read, few people volunteer their indiscretions. That said, if those poor boundaries and alcohol issues aren't addressed completely, she will continue to be an unsafe partner.

If your WS is showing you she is dealing with those things that made her vulnerable, you have someone to work with.

Your old marriage is dead. Your wife essentially killed it by cheating on you with that 50 yo POSOM. She needs to earn her place in a new marriage. That takes a lot more than shedding a few tears well after the dirty deeds have been done. You have to stop salvaging your dead marriage with the standard affair recovery package bundle touted here - MC, IC, the "why" and the healing library, and then waiting for the "2-5 year recovery" period, something akin to snake oil.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have found this to be true..

Sometimes the standard recovery package of R or D isn't an immediate option for some folks..Depending on their situations..

Elderly parents live in parents, disabled minor children,poverty, poor health, etc, etc..

With that said, when one is young, healthy, has no children in the marriage, options are more simple, and there is a better chance of starting over well..

I didn't have access to this kind of wisdom 20-30 years ago with D-day 1 when I was in my 30's with a new baby..Anybody who counseled me told me to save the marriage at all costs, so that I wouldn't be a single parent..

As later events revealed, my WH was a POS to the core, he never did the work to become a safe partner..I didn't know better and put up with our marriage with a fair amount of resentment...

These days, being in in house separation, emotionally I am gone..Physically however it is very difficult to leave and start over again...Not even an option at present..

Draw your lines in the sand, put your money where your mouth is..

Put a solid and immediate exit plan in place that legally and financially protects you....

The WS doesn't get to return to life/marriage as he or she knows it..

“That comment about separation isn't a bad idea, tbh. I want to talk to our counselor about all of this before making any decisions but I think (at least today, again, that I'm leaning towards the thinking that there seems to be almost as many unknowns about my ww than there would be about a stranger. Do I love my ww, I think I do, I used to, but I can never be okay or comfortable with these idk answers.”

If that’s how you are really starting to feel, then maybe you should go for separation. Reconciling after cheating is a long, tough thing, it requires a lot of work, it requires a committed WS, and it requires honesty. And even then, restoring real trust can be difficult. You are already fed up with the book exercises, and it sounds like you are worn out with trying to make yourself feel love and trust when your instincts keep telling you not to. It is always good to get input from others, whether it’s counsellors, books, this forum, etc, but the advice that is most suitable for you comes from your own gut. If everyone else says ‘stay’, but your gut says ‘go’, you should go. If everyone else says ‘go’, but your gut says ‘stay’, you should stay.

Also, you need to think about what you want out of your marriage, and your life. Has the marriage worked out the way you hoped it would? I think we all know the answer to that, but it is still a big question you need to think about. If the marriage has not worked out the way you hoped it would, why is that? Again, the question has a quite obvious answer, but you need to really think about the implications of it.

“Do I love my ww, I think I do, I used to”

Is it possible that you loved a version of your wife that existed in your mind before you knew so much about her? I ask that because it does sound like you are struggling to love her after her recent behaviour. A friend of mine who tried reconciling but gave up said that as sorry as his WS was, the cheating made him feel like she wasn’t the person he had thought she was, and he basically fell out of love with the new version of her that could cheat on him. They parted relatively amicably (she accepted it was her fault), and he has been in what seems like a good relationship for years. He told me that he didn’t break the reconciliation because he hated his WS, it was because he found he just couldn’t love her anymore. He later said that he felt it would have been unfair to stay with her when he felt that way.

There’s another big thing to consider here, which no-one has mentioned so far. Would you ever feel secure enough to have kids with your WS? I bring this up because both of you are at an age where starting a family is likely to surface as a possibility in the next few years. Would you feel fine bringing a kid into your relationship? If not, and you like the idea of maybe having a family and being a Dad one day, it is best for both of you that part ways so that both of you can find other partners.

“The reasons for staying with him for 3 months were it felt bad breaking the rules and almost felt addicting. She said she felt terrible about the whole thing, the whole time but it kept drawing her back because of how nice it felt.”

Well, that’s an absolutely honest answer. And you may be right that telling you was a way for her to break her addiction to the forbidden fruit. What she needs to develop is an addiction to you and the marriage. I’m not being a wise-ass; I think it would really be a good exercise to get her to think about what ‘marriage’ actually means to her. Marriage ought to be a thing that makes life worthwhile, the deepest and closest relationship between two people, not something that exists to make cheating fun, or provide waywards with something to ‘rebel’ against. The really dumb thing with cheating is that people who cheat are effectively crapping in their own picnic basket, devaluing something that could be the most valuable thing in their lives.

Desert, I know you’re a square dealer and not a manipulator, but I think it is worth bringing up separation to give your wife a shock and a reality check. A big ‘tool’ for stopping her cheating in future would be to make her realise how much she values you, if she does. It will show her that your presence in her life is not a guaranteed thing, that she can push you too far, that you have boundaries and limits, and maybe make her value your relationship more than perhaps she has.

At the moment, it seems to be all about you trying to talk yourself into staying. She needs to be doing that.

It’s a bumpy ride indeed, Desert, but it can be smoother if you tell your wife what you expect out of the future of your marriage if you stay together. You’ve done a lot of focusing on her, her motivations, her shortcomings, her good points, but yours are just as important, and given the situation, you are well within your rights to set down what you will and will not accept in future. Shift the focus off her a bit, and focus on what you need. Be honest with yourself, and once you have it figured what you need, tell her. You have said in your posts that she has been supportive and wanted you to tell her what you need, so maybe the way forward is to shift focus from the A to what you need for the future. She’s been in the spotlight so far, it’s time for you and your needs to be there.

The A is a done deal, and while there are benefits to analysing it and trying to see why it happened so a repeat performance can be averted, what really matters now is how you as an individual, and the pair of you as a couple, move forward. If, of course, you as an individual really do want to move forward as part of a couple with her. As others have said, you do have other options, and you should be weighing them up too. You mention not wanting to shortchange your wife out of the time she needs to change, and there’s merit in that, but I’d say that so far in that marriage, it is you who has been quite significantly shortchanged. You need to be as compassionate and considerate to your needs as you are to hers. And she should be going all out to impress on you why you should stay with her.

Whatever you decide, we’re all behind you. You’re a good guy, Desert.

[This message edited by M1965 at 11:45 AM, February 5th (Sunday)]

M1965, I just wanted to say that, what with my situation being somewhat similar to Desert's, your insightful exchanges on this thread have been valuable to me. Thank you for taking the time to write such thoughtful stuff.

HeLLz, bless you for your kind words. I am truly glad if something I have written has helped you, DesertMirage, or anyone else. I wish this forum had been around when my world was turned upside down, but now that it is, we can all help each other. It is an amazing resource that will be as good as we make it.

In my IC my therapist told me my old marriage was dead, and as with anything you lose you have to mourn the loss. She told me to mourn the loss of my security and my idea of what my marriage should have been. I thought it was also helpful that she told me I don't need to stay in my marriage but I have to work through all the feeelings the A brought. Because if I don't I will just bring them with me.

Hearing that the old relationship is dead was super helpful to me. I'm glad to read about it here as well.

Thanks so much again! Youre on a roll! She really hasnt given me an overwhelming feeling that she wants to make things right and fix this besides crying and telling me the above.

I don't even know what I want at this point; from her, from my marriage, from work, whatever. I just feel lost.

Maybe this is the place to start. What do I want. Seems stupid, but I really dont know.

Hi Desert,

“She really hasn’t given me an overwhelming feeling that she wants to make things right”.

There is a chance that she doesn’t realise all the emotions that you have been feeling. You mentioned that the last time you discussed the A was two weeks ago, but the whole thing (the A and its impact on your relationship) has been on your mind every day. If you aren’t informing her of how you feel, she may not know, and if she doesn’t know, it will be hard for her to provide the reassurances that you need. Also, she genuinely may not know how she can improve things. And you are still in an emotional daze, not sure about anything at the moment, which blocks you from being able to figure out and express what you need.

I think some of your frustration/resentment about the issue of R may be because you and your wife appear to be at two very different stages of it. You are still reeling, not knowing what you want, not even sure you want R, and your wife has returned to her old pre-A life and routine. Effectively, you have barely begun R, and it is like she is in post-R mode, just getting on with the marriage. In her place, all she can really do is carry on as before, and try to address your concerns whenever you express them to her. Trouble is, you aren’t sure what you feel or what you want, where you think the marriage is going, etc, so you can’t tell her what she should do. You have said in the past that she has been supportive when you did want to talk, so if you take some time now to get your thoughts together, there is a good chance that she will at least listen.

If there are some ‘tough’ issues to discuss, then I think you may have to just power through and tell her. If you feel like you may never be able to trust her again, you need to tell her that, however upsetting it may be for her. If things like that are not discussed, they will never get worked through, and R just won't happen. You have said that she tends to cry and beat herself up when some subjects are discussed, and that has prevented you from being able to take the subjects any further. That shows your compassionate side, which is commendable, but it is actually counter-productive if it stops you from telling her about the big things that are really bothering you. You are not an insensitive or brutal guy, and I can understand why you halt discussions when she is upset, but do you think that saying something like this might enable a discussion to continue:

“Darling, this is not about painting you as the worst person on the face of the Earth. You aren’t, and we both know that. I’m sorry if this hurts you, but you have said that you want to support me to get through this. What I need you to do for me now is to listen. I need to say this to you, and you need to listen, if you really want to know what’s on my mind”.

But before you can really communicate with her, you need to focus on yourself and get your thoughts together. You say:

“I don't even know what I want at this point; from her, from my marriage, from work, whatever. I just feel lost.

Maybe this is the place to start. What do I want. Seems stupid, but I really dont know.”

Everyone can understand exactly how you feel, and there is nothing stupid about it. You have focused on your wife, the A, the marriage, but in all that time you have not really focused much on yourself. IC can help with that, and I really think it would be beneficial for you to switch your focus to you.

What do you need for your own healing to begin?

Do you truly want to reconcile?

Where you want to be in five years’ time?

What other life options are open to you?

I really think IC could help you figure out what you want, and once you get a handle on that, you can formulate a way forward for yourself. Make these next few weeks “DesertMirage” time; get to know yourself, and what you want.

Take care, buddy, and be good to yourself.

[This message edited by M1965 at 3:42 AM, February 7th (Tuesday)]

Hi DM

Read both your threads and was wondering how you and WW were doing. I'm hoping the answer is 'well'

Sorry if I missed a more recent thread.

Best wishes

Hugs. I know exactly how you feel because I used to feel the same exact way! With the help of SI & self awareness, I realized that I needed to work through the internal conflicts within before I was able to truly work on healing from the infidelity & working on the marriage. Once I worked through my internal conflict I was able to accept that putting time/energy in healing was something that I would have to do if I wanted to move forward. It's not fair, but it is what it is.

Just wanted to chime in and say you aren't alone. I'm not generally an angry person but I've been very angry the last few days and very resentful that -I- am the one printing off articles and ordering books. -I'm- the one whose every waking thought is consumed by the choices of someone else. Some days it very much feels like having both legs broken in a car accident because someone else decided to drink and drive. I was just there, I didn't deserve it and now I have to do all the work if I want to walk again.

But wanting to walk (feel better) again is what I want and that thought keeps me pushing forward. One day at a time...

Letting go of the resentment and frustration is going to take time I guess.

Keep working at it and I hope tomorrow is a better day for you than today was, friend.

Late to the post - but my two cents is that you didn't spend enough time healing yourself before jumping into fixing the 'marriage'. I've made it clear to WH that I'm not yet committed to fixing our marriage. Im still here and working on healing myself only. If we were doing anything geared toward fixing our marriage, I know that would be the quickest path to divorce for me. I'm not at all ready to go there with him. My IC is the one who helped me see this. I need to heal first, and then once I figure out what that means for me, we can either work on the marriage or move on. It's a very freeing feeling.

I've also been very open and honest with WH about this. If he's truly remorseful, he will do whatever I need. I would be flipping out if date night meant doing relationship exercises. You didn't blow up your marriage, she did. You are here because of her choices, not yours.

Best of luck - you might want to take a step back and see if this is doing more harm than good and then reassess what you need right now.

Yes, I don't know if anyone could not feel this after betrayal. I simply tell my w.s. what I am feeling. Feelings are not judgmental nor accusing.

Feelings are fleeting. I can feel angry one minute and joyous the next. I had to work on my "self talk" I had a right to my feelings and they were justified, but after a point I had to listen to what I was telling myself. If they w.s. is repentant, sorry , remorseful and sincere , then there comes a point where I have to stop negative self talk about them and replace it with positive. It isn't easy, I fail at it daily, but correct myself. Feelings will come and go and I have a right to them. They let me know I have to stop, think and work through what is making me angry , It is ok to feel anger but what I do when angry may not be. I am not entitled to attack my w.s. or make them feel horrid. I am entitled to state my feelings, my thoughts behind them and work through it. Nothing about an affair is "fair", life isn't "fair" but when the one person we thought we could trust totally hurts us this way, it is devastating. NO it isn't "fair" but to have a healthy emotional and mental life it has to be worked through and let go of. The past isn't the future. Of course I will be on high alert for a long time, looking for signs of cheating, but at some point I have to move forward with the person I am married to or decide it is too much and let them go. You both deserve a good future and someones lack of judgement and weakness isn't the end of the world , but it sure does shake it up.

OMG Yes!! We both agreed right away that I have worked harder in our almost 20 yrs of marriage than he has. That I probably had more times/reasons/moments where I could have sought someone else and never even considered it. This timing of his A was NOT a low time in our marriage, there were definitely other times when it would have fit that mold. He simply let his ego get out of control (approaching 50 MLC maybe??).

So we said we'd try but he would have to carry the burden of the bulk of the work. He is trying but I still feel,like I have to do too much. I am the one that found "HTHYSH" and ordered it for him along with some other books. I am getting to IC first. He has made some calls but not scheduled his appt.

I am pissed. So I reread about the 180 and am doing that. Yesterday I told him I was going to counseling today. He asked if I wanted him to go to the same counselor and I just replied "This is where I am going. I am not going to arrange anything for you or tell you who to go to. You figure that out"

I told him nice words, apologies, regret, remorse are all in the right direction but as far as I am concerned the easy part of the work and he needs to work harder. I to,d him any article or book I read, and IC I do will be for me and from my perspective, I will not do any of it for him and after awhile either will feel like he is really working... Or not.

I have a timeline in my head that I have not shared with him.

Sometimes we have to get tough to send the right message to our WS's and to heal ourselves. That's the stage I am at now.

I identify greatly with the resentment and also with the lack of consequences for our WS's. I spent so much time these past weeks worrying about my WS's psychological issues and being compassionate towards his horrible FOO issues that it degraded my healing. It also had another effect - it caused him to get more defensive and almost threw him back to the A mentality. "I am broken, I am fragile, don't be mean to me, I cannot remember anything."

So it stops now and my healing takes precedence over healing him and the marriage. He can either come along for the ride or he cannot. I feel empowered now and more in charge of my destiny. I lost a lot of my life because of his actions and I'm taking it back.

Desert - maybe you need to do the same. Who cares if she doesn't get it. She already showed you what she is capable of doing and you know that no matter the issues in your relationship, it did not warrant an A.

I believe she knows everything about what she did and is not courageous enough to tell you. I see that with all these WS's including mine. The ones that get it and do reveal the information are savvy enough to realize they need to change and see themselves as healers rather than victims.

All of us as BS's deserve healers and if we're not getting it, then we must drive towards it for ourselves and leave the rest behind.

That's my take for the day. I'm in the metamorphosis stage too and don't want the anger and resentment to linger. I'd rather build the life I need to be happy - if my WS wants to join me, then he knows what he has to do.

I'm hopeful for you Desert - and for all of us!