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(((((Walloped)))))

I just feel like cryin when I see Mrs Walloped reacting like I wish my xWW did back in the day.

Dark times ahed. If I was a religious person I'd say that my prayers are w8th you and all of your family, but I'm not so I'll just thank you sharing and remind you that you're safe here and that SI moto is take what you want and leave the rest.

Keep running and exercising, you can make this, things will never be the same but you'll survive.

Walloped,

Although your sitdown with your daughters did not go exactly as you planned, I think the end result was good, and you handled it very well. I really like how your wife stepped up to the plate to protect you. These are the types of actions WS's take that demonstrate that they are no longer protecting OM or themselves, but are instead protecting their BS and their family. That is a huge step forward.

It is encouraging to see how quickly your wife is beginning to get it. She seems to be completely owning her shit, and that is normally one of the first true signs of remorse. She seems to be light years ahead of many other WS's so early after D-Day. Many BS's will envy you that, and yes, I know considering yourself lucky sounds absurd, but it's all relative .

I'll say it again. Take your time with the decision to either R or D. The following days, weeks, months even years (if you decide to R) will be difficult with highs and lows galore. Hopefully if your wife is reading the recommended books, she will know that this is not a short process. She seems to have an understanding of that based on her willingness to get to the bottom of the why.

In regards to the timeline, people are different. Some people must know everything, others do not need to know everything. I am in the former camp. Forgiving the unknown is not possible for me. I will just say that if you decide you need the details, be very sure you know that for a fact. When going over the timeline and asking questions, you will hear some very painful things. Step away if the pain becomes too much, and clear your mind some. As ugly as the process is, I think it is better to do it this way and get everything out in the light, because that way, your mind will not run wild and fill in the blanks for you.

You did well last night brother. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. Stay strong.

good point by Nononsense.

how did your wife's volunteer friends get the new number to contact her? Why did they relay the message that POS missed her? I think you can assume that POS now has your wife's new number. I think it's also safe to assume that at some point he's going to call her. Maybe not now. Maybe not this week. But maybe next week.

What will your wife do?

You can take preemptive action and make her change her numbers again (which is what I would do). Or you can see what your wife does. Personally, I wouldn't do that. I don't think that at this early stage you want to test her. Remember, this guy is going to say how much he loves her and how he's sorry for the fallout and he meant to tell her the truth about his marriage. That it was failing anyway. And if he could just talk to your wife one more time in person, to get closure. How would your wife respond to that?

Because I can tell you, if she falters at this stage, I don't think you will be able to handle it.

Just some thoughts. Good luck.

Hi Walloped,

I have been following your thread, and I really appreciate it. In many ways, I identify with your story. I thought I had a good marriage, a really good marriage, a marriage that I wanted for the rest of my life. It wasn't perfect, and I'm not perfect.

When I found out about the A, I followed a lot of the advice on SI. So, I have been doing the "right" things. Like your WW, my WH was immediately sorry and regretful (and remorseful?) and immediately started doing a lot of the things that a "good", remorseful W does. I wish it were easier, but I think a lot of this just takes time. I've resigned myself that whatever happens will be a long ride, so I had better strap in.

I was prompted to respond to address how to handle this with your kids. My kids are a younger (4, 6, 8), and they were home when D-Day hit. I kicked my WH out for a few days because, among other reasons, I didn't want my kids to witness me yelling and raging at their father. With my WH gone, I felt that they deserved honesty. So, my kids know that my WH had a female "friend" that he should not have had. They certainly don't know the nitty-gritty details. I was struck by how hard it was for them. Their life is spinning out of control, and there is NOTHING they can do about it.

I think it's good your girls know. I would consider offering some explanation to your sons especially if they know something is amiss. I would careful to ask your kids not to talk to others. Ideally, your kids would be able to talk to those who already know (brother, WW's sister, and SIL). My parents and WH's parents know, so I told my kids that they could talk to them. We also have a nanny, so I told her in very broad terms what was happening (she's not stupid, but that was a fun conversation ), and told the kids they could talk to her. I understand the desire not to want this to be part of the community gossip, but I don't want to take away my kids' support even if that makes my road harder. Being part of the community gossip may be a just another consequence of this whole mess. So, my advice is to tell your kids that you would prefer that they not discuss the A with all of their friends, but that you understand that this is hard on them and that they are suffering too. If they have a friend or two that they want to talk to, you could ask that your kids consider before telling their friends and/or talk to you or your WH about the potential effects of confiding in a friend.

I wish all of your family the best.

Somethign doesn't necessarily sit well with me with the entire "SIL caught me before I could call him thing".

Like how did that play out? Did you wife enter the room and say "I announce my intentions of calling him!". No, most people would just fucking call him and give him a piece of their mind or do whatever. It was an emotional decision from someone clearly not in a stable emotional state.

I strongly suggest making sure that entire exchange is on the timeline in excruciating detail and perhaps one question on the polygraph will simply be "have you had any contact with him since dday?". I also agree with nononense that something doesn't smell right about the subsequent contact from her former work collegues.

She said she knows she made the worst decision of her life. I asked her about that? I said “decision?” And she said yes. Decision. That she understands that she chose to do this – it didn’t just happen. And she said she wouldn’t call it a mistake. It wasn’t an accident. She may not have set out to sleep with him, but she could have said no at any point in time.

She gets it !!

Your WW understands completely and she realized it all on her own.

You will be able to forgive her, though it doesn't

seem like it now.

Despite the fact that you I believe changed her phone number, she has been in contact with these women. Now how did that happen???

THE ANSWER IS YOUR WIFE MUST HAVE CONTACT THEM OR HOW DID THEY REACH HER??????

Now her contacting these friends and giving them the lame excuse she did is not such a bad thing in itself except for one thing and that is

THERE ARE NOW MULTIPLE PERSONS IN THESE GROUPS WHO KNOW HOW TO CONTACT HER.

This is one of the reasons you guys are so amazing. I'm in the thick of it and have a hard time seeing the forest through the trees. So I spent the last hour or so making two phone calls.

First, I called my wife and said that something she told me last night was bothering me. I asked her if she remembers when we changed her phone number? She said last weekend. And when did you call XYZ to quit volunteering? She said she didn't remember but some time last week. I said it was last Monday. I know because I worked from home that day and was in the house when you did it. So how did your co-volunteers get your new number? Silence. Then she panicked and said no - she didn't call them. She didn't. And she doesn't know how but they called her. And she didn't even think of her new number when they did. So I asked her who has her new number. Mostly relatives and a few close friends she texted. Anyone at the organization? She thought about it and then she said that when she quit, they asked her to verify her contact info - mailing address for donations and cell phone number cause they do mass text announcements. She must've given it to Mrs. X at the office. They must've gotten it from her. And then the lightbulb went off. She did an Ohmigod! And then quickly said he hasn't contacted her. He hasn't. That I should please look at the phone records. I'll see, He hasn't. Etc. I said maybe he hasn't, but he now probably has your number. And she said change it again. I don't care. Just change it. So, I said okay. I then pointed out that if we are going to even think about working through things, then we will need to be hyper-vigilant about things like this. She agreed profusely. So, I'll be changing her number yet again shortly.

Second convo: I had re-read my post from last night and something gnawed at me. She told me what happened when her co-volunteers called her and that they had said that POS told them he missed her. So I wondered how did POS contact them? Did he call them or was he still volunteering there? So a very big thank you to HouseOfPlane whose post yesterday was so amazing and I printed it out and have it taped in my desk drawer. You gave me the courage to do this.

I called the organization and spoke to the Director. I introduced myself to Mrs. La-di-dah as Mrs. W's husband and got all of the pleasantries and how very much they miss her and blah blah blah. I asked if she knew why my wife stopped volunteering. I got a "Yes" and then a very sanitized version of an affair - she said that my wife said she developed somewhat of an inappropriate relationship with POS and that she wanted to dedicate herself to her marriage and how admirable that is. So I put a stop to the bullshit and told her that while POS was still married and ostensibly working through marriage counseling with his wife, he targeted my wife and the two had a PA for 3 months, which as she could imagine has utterly devastated our family. I got silence. I then took a leap and said that I was shocked to find out that despite this, POS was still volunteering at her organization. I then got a whole bunch of, “I don’t understand,” “He’s a very valued member,” “donates time and money,” and so on. Now, you guys don’t know me so well, but I can be a real asshole at times. I have been yelling and shouting at my wife, which isn’t right, but that’s all emotion and hurt combined with anger. When I get really, really angry, I go cold. And this lady got me furious. So I said in an extremely calm voice, that I wonder how her volunteering and donations will fare when I call every single one of my wife’s co-volunteer’s husbands, as well as the Board members, and the Dinner Chairs, and the journal editors, etc., and let them know about POS and that scum like him will likely target their wives next, and moreover that you are perfectly fine with someone like that representing your organization despite the destruction to families, as long as you get a nice check out of it? How much longer do you think you’ll still have your job? She said “You wouldn’t.” Oh – I absolutely would. I don’t care how embarrassing it is for me, I wouldn’t hesitate one iota. “But the kids…” So I said I don’t give a flying fuck about the kids. I care about my family. She then went with “There’s no need…” and I cut her off and I said there’s every need in the world and that I expect her to handle this quickly and appropriately. She finally said I made my point and that she’ll take care of it. I said that she should make sure she does so before the end of the week. Otherwise I start making phone calls. Wished her a good day and hung up.

I feel good. Really good. Maybe I just needed to re-assert myself and maybe I took it out on Mrs. La-di-dah (she really is a stuck up bitch - complete with fake high society Manhattan accent). Who cares? I feel good. Cue the James Brown music.

Like how did that play out? Did you wife enter the room and say "I announce my intentions of calling him!". No, most people would just fucking call him and give him a piece of their mind or do whatever. It was an emotional decision from someone clearly not in a stable emotional state.

eric1 - Sometimes this is all a blur. Your post got me nervous that I was being played so I went back to see what I posted after my conversation with my SIL. Here it is:

She’s also super angry at POS. Feels betrayed. Like she was nothing but a convenient hole for him to use. My SIL was gentle, but said she didn’t hold back and told her that’s exactly what she was. And that if she feels this betrayed by a guy she knew for less than a year and was only emotionally involved with for around 5 months, imagine how I must feel. My SIL said my wife didn’t take that very well. My SIL told her she was on her side and there for her, but that also means making sure she understands and knows the right things, not just consoling her over the wrong things. That she needs to get her head out of her ass and see the truth of it all. Who POS was, what he was doing and was after, who she was before and during the affair, the wrongs she did, the harm to herself, the damage to me and the kids. My wife wanted to call POS to yell at him and call him every name she could think of – but my SIL talked her out of it (yay SIL!). Reminded her about NC and that the best way to get back at him was to ignore him and work on us. Work on herself.

It seems that it was part of the conversation my SIL was having with my wife. I can check with my wife or my SIL, but it sounded like to me that as my SIL was talking to my wife, she was getting more and more riled up and probably picked up her phone or said I'm going to call him and...etc., and my SIL stopped her and told her why that was a dumbass thing to do.

That makes sense to me.

Holy cow! What a conversation with that director. (I know a little something about that line of work...) You, my dear sir, ROCK!

[This message edited by Ginny at 1:02 PM, August 19th (Wednesday)]

I called the organization and spoke to the Director. I introduced myself to Mrs. La-di-dah

Oh my! You can be quite tough when you put your mind to it. Good for you! I think POS was already looking for his next hole, at least he won't find it there.

You're in a world of shit, so I'm going to point out some of the good:

She did an Ohmigod! And then quickly said he hasn't contacted her. He hasn't. That I should please look at the phone records. I'll see, He hasn't. Etc. I said maybe he hasn't, but he now probably has your number. And she said change it again. I don't care. Just change it.

That's good.

I asked if she knew why my wife stopped volunteering. I got a "Yes" and then a very sanitized version of an affair - she said that my wife said she developed somewhat of an inappropriate relationship with POS and that she wanted to dedicate herself to her marriage

This is better. Your WW told people that she was screwing around? When she didn't have to? Could have come up with a bullshit reason?

That's huge.

[This message edited by WornDown at 1:31 PM, August 19th (Wednesday)]

Good call on the clarification of the call, W. That makes total sense. Again, let me know if I'm pushing too hard - just trying to help ya look at all angles.

And let me know if you need any help knocking on doors and calling husbands. That was a great fucking phone call!!!

Remember early on when we chatted about the worst part feeling helpless? No longer sir. That drive is eventually what's going to be 'I'm going reconcile' or 'you did this shit to me and I'll never look at you the same'. None of this begging and hoping shit, even if it's to yourself.

[This message edited by eric1 at 1:35 PM, August 19th (Wednesday)]

When I get really, really angry, I go cold. And this lady got me furious.

Kah-boom

Walloped,

I've been following your post and must say you are handling this, with a maturity that is absolutely uncommon among BS in the early days of finding out.

Your wife does sound remorseful, and seems to be doing most things right, but you have enough sense to understand she must stay consistent in time.

Only thing I get a bad vibe from is your description of your convowith your wife about contact with her fellow volunteers. Maybe it's me (English is not my mother language) or the way you worded it, but I can't shake off a sensation of your wife trying to hide something there... And then trying to sound very innocent all over again (I get that "Oh, Shit!" feeling from that episode, rather than the Ohmygod you talk about)

Great handling of the convo with the director, don't tell your wife anything about it, let's see if she brings it up or if you can understand she knows about it (then you'll know she's still in contact).

I wish you the best whatever you will decide.

W -

I do some forensic work from time to time. When I have a "hot" number I will port it into a NetTalk account before deleting it. That way, you can figure out who is still calling it down the line.

Plus, nobody will know that it was deleted, making it less likely to search for a new number.

W -

I think you suspect - maybe even know - that your wife is lying to you even now. She's in full panic mode and will minimize and straight-up lie about every detail that she knows you cannot prove. She will continue to make the kind of slip-up's that she did with the whole changed phone number thing (maybe that's true) as long as you keep digging and verifying her stories. It's very difficult to keep the lies straight and she'll screw up again.

You should keep trying to make her understand that she needs to be completely honest about everything related to her cheating. She needs to prove to you that she is done lying and that by not revealing things that she is afraid will hurt you she is actually hurting her chances for reconciliation. You can see on her face and feel in your heart that she's lying/withholding and you will not stand for it any longer. Tell her the next ugly truth that trickles out will be the last straw. She has to answer every question you ask her to the level of detail that you want to hear. Continued lying makes any chance of reconciliation a non-starter. She has to prove she's trying to reestablish trust by stopping the lies.

[This message edited by theDrifter at 3:47 PM, August 19th (Wednesday)]

W- you are still an inspiration. I am in limbo and taking strength from seeing the grace with which you are tackling this living nightmare.

I am newly betrayed too but from all I have read (constantly since July 19 DDay), your wife is showing some true remorse. Whatever you decide is ultimately the right course for you, you will know you made your choice with integrity and love and mindfulness. That will serve you well.

As an off topic aside, I can't fail to point out that you are a talented writer. Jeez. In the turmoil of the worst pain imagineable, your posts are eloquent and have a structure (even though I am sure they are just thoughts falling out). It is a gift. And maybe in time to come, something to pursue. Off topic, but wanted to say.

As Churchill said,if you are going through Hell,keep going...

No shit. She just got her new number like a week ago. I have had the same number for like 800 years and I can recite without hesitation exactly the people that I gave it to over the past week. And I talk to many, many people a day.

Maybe she was telling the truth about the phone number but that story made my bs-o-meter go off, too. ?