SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oh W-

My heart just breaks for you. The mind movies are horrible. I wish I could say that part passes, but I'm STILL dealing with them a year later.

But I'm glad you're starting to reevaluate other things. Your wife is not and never was Mother Teresa. She's simply wasn't. She's a flawed human, just like the rest of us. Nor is she the most gorgeous woman around. You have, on multiple occasions, talked about how perfect she was. You have joked that other women would hate her because of her beauty. I don't hate her because she's beautiful. I hate her because she is causing you to suffer the same devastation that I'm dealing with and I wouldn't wish this nightmare upon anyone. I've learned that beauty is far deeper than I knew before. Beauty is who you are on the inside. Beauty is someone who can keep you safe. Beauty is trust and honesty always. Confucious say, beauty is only a light switch away. (and I don't really hate her - but, man, I wish you weren't in this with us)

I have hope for you guys. Your marriage, as you thought you knew it, is gone. Your wife, as you thought you knew her, is gone. Together, you can replace these things with something different. And STOP being embarrassed about what you write!!!!!! It's comforting to read about someone else having the same experience. Because infidelity makes you feel crazy and isolated. And that's tough when you're already feeling like you were the last kid picked to be on the team. :(

Awesome post Alaska. I second every word. Thinking of you W.

Good luck.

This thread is really a heart breaker. I went on emapthy overload last night and didn't sleep well thinking of walloped's suffering (I know kind of nuts) but I feel absolutely terrible about this whole thing.

I've read enough of these forums to almost get numb but every so often a story breaks through like this one did and it breaks your heart Usually infidelity stories, especially when the WS is remorseless or the AP is someone so wildly inappropriate like a family member, just disgust you and you chalk the cheater up to being a terrible person - lots of those in the world. This one is just a tragedy that happened for no reason.

Walloped unfortunately your wife is a perhaps a coddled upper middle class wife with too much time on her hands and too many fantasies running through her head. You need to see her in that light now - she is not nor has ever been angelic.

Take care of you now. You do need some new hobbies besides gaming - something athletic like martial arts or boxing. you also need to make some new friends and get out of that house more. She has had her time out of the house now it's your turn. Let her sit at home taking care of stuff. Her actions really do disgust me and her tears don't impress me.

I absolutely love what Mike7 said in his last post above. It is bullseye. And what I want to comment on about it is this. Once a WW sees, senses and feels that you are a different person; that you know you can do quite well alone; and that consequently you are now looking at her as a question of whether YOU want HER rather than out of fear as to whether she wants you --- you will see who she really is.

You will see if she is truly remorseful. If she is worth the work and time needed for a R. And I say that because if she is not truly remorseful. If you are just a second choice or worse. She won't put in the effort to care to show you remorse nor to help you heal nor to try to regain your trust. A WW that is not worth keeping will either outright run or at least show an uncaring, take care of yourself, just get over it attitude. Why put in hard work, and perhaps years of it, for a man you can't control and manipulate and whom you don't really love but see only as a backup plan.

Mike7's W saw the difference in him and knew that he either already was done with her or might soon be. So she dove in and did what he needed to see, consistently over time. And the most important part --- even when she knew it might be too late. That is the lesson I take from his post.

It seems from what you have written that you are doing much of what Mike has suggested. Know that there will be times it will be hard to follow that advice. But it is great advice and if you can follow on you will get to a point where, if YOU want to R, you will also know if she is worth the work; if her apparent remorse is real; if her professed love for you and the M is real; if she is really putting forth full effort to fix herself.

Walloped... you've had a ton of advice and I am sure mine won't be any different.

I am so sorry this has happened to you, I remember when I found out my STBX had been calling/texting this whore for months. It about took my breath away.

I lost 15lbs and could barely function, I know how you feel.

Please internalize this right now.. this has NOTHING to do with you at all. The OM is not better looking, smarter, a better provider, nothing of the sort. He is by definition, a downgrade. Anyone who would mess with a married woman is a POS. And he is a POS. DO NOT compare yourself to him in any shape or form.

And do NOT take responsibility for what your wife has done. Nothing you did caused this.. it's about her.. her issues, her problems. NOT YOU. I know it's so hard to believe but it's true. You did nothing wrong. This is all about her internal crisis.

Whether you choose to continue with her is completely up to YOU and you may not be able to get to a decision point for a while. My personal opinion is that most cheaters don't reform, but only you can judge that for yourself.

Best wishes Walloped.. hang in there. Eat, drink, exercise, do something for yourself every day.

Hugs.

I have to agree..

How many people live up to our dreams anyway..For companionship..Romance, etc..

We have to decide what we can accept...Hopefully it is more than mere crumbs..

Today , I feel like people suck..PEOPLE SUCK...

We have to pick and choose what we like about people for the purpose of keeping then in our lives..

For a SO, life partner, spouse, family member, we have to feel trust that they have our backs..That they want to invest time and energy in us...

We have to feel like our concerns aren't being brushed aside..

Bro hugs W. I know how tough this hellish weekend has been for you, but it is part of the process, as shitty as that sounds.

I need to let go of that person in my mind and understand who she is. I also need to disassociate myself from her from a reconciliation standpoint and come to an acceptance of us splitting. We may not split. But I need to prepare for it and accept it. And maybe even live it. Detach. I think only then will I be able to make rational decisions about my future and whether or not it includes her. I also think it'll help with the impact of the mind movies.

You hit the nail on the head. I couldn't have said it better. The past can't be changed. However, YOU are in control of the present and he future. Knowing that, you can chart your own path for what is best for your children and yourself. Nothing else matters.

You and your family are in my prayers.

Walloped: You cannot 'fix' this. There is no fix for what has happened, so stop trying. What you can do is redefine what you want the rest of your life to look like. With or without your WW, there is a 'rest of your life' to think about. I understand the mind movies, I understand how you feel when you learn the person whom you loved more than yourself has given all that was so special to you to someone else. It IS gut wrenching. What you're feeling now is normal, sadly. There are stages to this crap. I think I wrote you before, you never get over this crap but you do get through it. What I wish I would have done at the stage you're at: step back. Just step back from it. Find a way to to put your mind elsewhere.... the gaming is good in the short term.... but you are going to need something different in the long term.... something where you have to think about what you're doing. Not about what's going on in your life but what you are doing at that moment. Easier said than done but I would have been far better off if I had realized that and did it early on. It also helped me to realize that two cheaters having sex was really not so special. How could it be special at all. Two people who lowered themselves to become alley cats getting it on in a dark place. Big woo. Disgusting, yes. Meaningful, not hardly.

The suggestion that your WW move out for awhile is excellent advice. She wanted out ? This is what 'out' looks like. Nothing cushy, either. Maybe she needs to move in with her parents for awhile.

This journey stinks. But we somehow wade our way through it. (((( ))))

I know people say start to do things for yourself etc but one of the things I didn't expect was that after doing everything for everyone for so long

I just didn't know what I wanted to do. Maybe I was a bit institutionalised by marriage.

It was a difficult time.

I do agree with her moving out for a while

obviously any contact with the guy or charity friends and it becomes permanent.

Walloped

Here are some words from another poster that is months ahead in where you are today.

It's definitely a f&*ked up kind of love and it is totally selfish, immature, self centered and all those things. People who have never cheated and never will cannot understand the mindset and the complete lack of loyalty.

My wife swears that she loves me and like many cheaters feels like anyone would cheat given the right opportunity. She cannot grasp that I would never cheat on her. That is a character flaw at the very least. I've always put a huge priority on being forthright and of solid character when dealing with everyone in my life whether business or personal. I cannot understand the thinking that goes into cheating but what I've learned is that for many cheaters(not all) their love for their spouse is true but because they are so selfish and self centered they don't even consider their spouse when they enter into an affair. The affair is completely about them and living in the moment. So yes they do love you but they love themselves more. In my case my wife is making me the focus and has lost much of the self centered behavior that prevailed in our marriage. The turn around has been nothing short of stunning and that is in large part why I'm sticking around.

The other side of the coin is that for whatever reason (I think it's self protection and my IC agrees) I'm not feeling love for her. I'm not angry or even feeling hurt much anymore. I'm just numb and don't really feel any emotions about her. She could tell me was leaving tomorrow and I don't think I'd bat an eye. My IC has explained that basically my emotions for her are on hold subconsciously as we see how the next months and years unfold. Self preservation at it's finest.

Maybe his words will help clarify some of your thoughts regarding your wife as well as where your thoughts might be in the near future.

HM

great post H64.

I hope the weekend went as well as it could have, and that you got some sleep somewhere along the way.

Be well. As well as you can be...

We are here for you.

@H64 - great post. Cheating is a character flaw and the post you quoted was interesting. His wife saying "anyone would cheat in the right circumstances" is a way of her avoiding dealing with the defects in her own character. I wonder how long that R will make it.

ManWNN

What is interesting about this poster is he is waiting to see if his wife is truly remorseful and willing to do almost all the hard work.

He has come to realize that he will be just fine with his wife or without his wife.

ANd I do think she realizes the same about him.

Time will tell.

HM

Truly remorseful cheaters are few and far between in my experience.

My gut also tells me that walloped is going to find out this isn't his wife's first affair. It's just not adding up that this is the first time she cheated. I just feel she has a lot to hide.

[This message edited by ManWithNoName at 10:34 AM, August 24th (Monday)]

Walloped

I haven‘t posted here for some time but if you look at my registration date you will see I have been around for a long time and have +5000 posts to my name. I like to believe I have some credibility here on SI. I hope you have the patience and the energy to read this through because I realize I jump around some issues…

One thing I have learned over the years is that all the advice offered is of equal value. There is no way I can tell you someone else is totally wrong, nor that I am totally correct. It’s all subjective and it’s all based on how we interpret the situation you share and base our advice on our experience, experiences, outlooks and reality. I feel I need to state this because what I say next might be deemed as harsh on some of the advice previously offered.

I think I am the king of action. Generally when a new poster comes along I’m amongst the first to challenge him to take action. At first the challenge tended to be to take action to end the affair. In the last years I have realized that ending the affair is only a step. A possible milestone in a long journey. Just like divorce or reconciliation is only a crossroad at the same journey that only decides the entrance to the destination – not the destination. Your goal isn’t to end the affair – your goal is TO GET OUT OF INFIDELITY!

Over the last year or so I have seen a change in the JFO forum. Guys like you come along and they get constant reminders, advice and suggestions that your wife is a cheater and that if you don’t deal with her as if she were a venomous snake then you are doomed to be bitten again. It’s always punish, punish, punish. Expect and plan for the worst. To me that’s not getting out of infidelity… That’s walking a path dragging infidelity along with you.

The “heroes” and role models here on SI in the last year or so tend to be husbands that took decisive action and ended their marriages. I’m ALL FOR decisive action. Heck – I think post-D-day decisive action is what’s needed. But IMHO the action needs to have a sole purpose and that’s getting out of infidelity.

I think many see reconciliation as a weakness and will do their utmost to prevent posters heading in that direction… I feel they forget that this site is run by a formerly wayward wife and her formerly betrayed husband. That some of the moderators have reconciled successfully. That reconciliation IS an option if and when you reach that fork in the path on your walk out of infidelity.

Deeply Scared didn’t become what she is because she is special – she is what she is because she did special things… Things most WS and BS are capable of doing.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD RECONCILE.

But neither am I telling you to divorce.

But I will tell you to keep moving out of infidelity and – like it or not – you need to decide soon whether you want to walk with your wife beside you, behind you like your slave or whether you intend to leave her at the fork…

I gather you are an executive in a business environment. Like me.

I guess you need to get people to work with you. Like me.

Sounds like you do projects, have to plan, implement and see through. Like me.

So let’s fall back to our actions and behaviors at work to see what to do next…

OK – I have used this simile hundreds of times:

When your friend told you about seeing your WW and OM holding hands then that was like waking up in your bed in the middle of the night to the sound of the smoke detector.

You jumped out of bed and looked around to find smoke and a fire in your house. That was totally 100% correct and exactly what I would have suggested you do.

You then got everyone out, made sure they were safe. Phoned the fire department (your support group) and then made sure the fire was out. You did this by confronting, exposing and making it clear that you refused to remain with your wife if she was in an affair.

So far you have done everything right.

Ever been to a fire-site? For hours after the fire is out the fire-department will keep an eye on things just in case an ember remains. It’s quite common that the fire rekindles… That’s what you are doing in monitoring her actions and communications.

But now you are reaching a stage where you need to determine your next steps…

Let’s stick to the fire-simile; right now you are standing outside the shell of your burned house. You have to go in – maybe with a specialist (MC, therapist, friend) who can suggest if the building is still structurally recoverable. You also need your wife to tell you if she wants to rebuild or not. Maybe you realize the damage is too extensive and you need to accept the house is not recoverable (divorce). Maybe you realize the foundation can be used to rebuild. Maybe a totally different house but based on the foundations (reconciliation).

You can decide to divorce on your own. To reconcile you need your wife’s commitment too.

I have a sense that right now you are standing outside the burnt shell of the house and blaming your wife for leaving that candle that ignited the fire. Again. And then taking action to ensure she doesn’t have a candle. Again. And then trying to map out where all the matches and lighters could be hidden in the garden…

If this was a business venture and you had an employee in front of you whose inability to meet a deadline threatened a project how would you react?

I would make my disappointment clear. I guess we could both agree on that.

Then I would probably evaluate his work, past and present, and decide whether to fire him, replace him on the project or get him to help in making the deadline.

What I wouldn’t do is expect him to work without pay, remind him and others constantly of his performance or make him work under the constant threat that I’m thinking of firing him…

I think it’s getting to the time where you should decide what direction to take at that fork in the path…

I also think that IF you decide to reconcile it’s better to have your wife by your side rather than have her follow you. If you decide to divorce then time spent now with your wife is not conductive to your personal recovery.

Take some time and think: Based on your reality what sort of wife do you want?

2-3 years from now do you still want to be monitoring her phone?

Do you want her to need a chaperone if she goes up-town?

Do you want to have a subdued, humbled wife that is constantly defensive and groveling?

I think that in the vast majority of cases people cheat because there is something missing in them. It sounds like your WW is the atypical wayward that falls for the validation the OM offered her: validation that she was attractive, interesting, sexual and all that. What is missing iMHO in those that cheat for this “reason” is a sense of self-worth. A sense of realizing validation is internal and can be seen and taken from daily interaction with others. For example: In your job then reaching or surpassing goals is validation that you are capable. Don’t need a BJ from the secretary to prove that to yourself.

I also think WS can really compartmentalize their experiences. We say it regularly here on SI: Her decision had nothing to do with you but totally 100% to do with her. A normally logical and sane person (as I assume your wife is) sees there is no future in the affair and that it breaches their core-values BUT STILL they go on. The affair is fantasy. Its “not real”. Exposure makes it real.

I am a firm believer in free will. I think it’s a momentous moment when we DECIDE what we want to do and set ourselves a goal and direction.

I am also a realist. I can set a goal but have learned that every now and then you need to sit down and evaluate if it’s really what you want and if you are getting any closer to it. Basically the only “mistake” one can do is sit still and expect change. IMHO it’s OK to decide you want to D and head that path and change your mind later on (if that option remains open). I also think it’s OK to choose to reconcile, commit to it 100% but sit down regularly to decide if it’s still the path you want.

IF YOU WANT TO RECONCILE then this is what I suggest you do:

Tell your wife that she is totally 100% free to be with OM.

But not as your wife.

She has to verbally and clearly tell you she wants to remain married to YOU.

Make it clear to her that a divorce would really be a formalization of where you are right now (more or less). That financially it would be a change for both of you. That the children and custody isn’t really an issue due to their age. That socially it’s out that she cheated so a divorce wouldn’t really change anything regarding her social status. If she decides she doesn’t want to be married then it’s best you two start that process.

IF she clearly commits to the marriage it has to be for one single reason: She wants to be married to you.

If you get that commitment from her then YOU make the same commitment:

Personally I don’t rate your financial excuses for not divorcing. YOU need to commit to the marriage for one sole reason: You want to be her husband.

IF that’s what you want then tell her so.

Tell her that you WANT to commit to reconciliation.

Make it clear that it’s what you want but NEITHER of you can really say right now if it’s attainable.

BUT you both commit to it.

[Back to a business situation: It’s like a mission statement at the start of a major project. The goal is to make the goal clear.]

You tell her that she needs to assure you the affair is over. She needs to provide you on her free will all the info you need. You also make it clear that there is immense work ahead and that it will take years to make things “right”.

Be aware the affair will never leave you. There will be moments you look at her and it all comes back. Just like there should be moments she looks at you and wonders at what she risked.

Reconciliation isn’t as easy as simply committing to it. That is simply the first step. IMHO the work reconciliation demands is something that is ongoing. The first couple of years demand that you work on the damage the affair caused – the distrust, sense of self-worth, doubts, sexual issues, need for revenge, the truth… the list is extensive. It’s worth it to realize and accept that this IS a long-term project – a marathon – and you need to pace yourself. You need time as a couple, date-nights, time apart and time in serious relationship work.

Finally Walloped – Reconcile or not soon you will need to step up for your wife.

IF you divorce then you need to stop people bad-talking her. She is and will be the mother of your children. You can work at forgiving her for the affair even if you decide she isn’t your wife.

IF you reconcile then you need to start placing yourself between her and those that judge her – reminding them that she is your wife and you will knock anyone senseless that talks to- or about her in a deconstructive way.

Walloped before you decide anything you need the WHOLE truth - that included admitting to any past affairs EAs or PAs.

She needs to fix her sh!t and you need to focus on healing. Right now it's about you and your kids - she torched the family and if you do R it will have to be built from the ground up. Do WHATEVER you need to do to heal - WHATEVER that maybe.

Wise words Bigger and as always well thought out.

Glad you are still around.

How have you been doing today, Wal? How are the kids?

So inspiring Bigger. On behalf of all us newly betrayed, thank you.