SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

NFM,

I think you have already received a lot of good advice that I agree with. My one observation is that I wonder if a lot of your current feelings are coming from fear? And that you are immobilized by it? Maybe your routine creates a safe frame work where you know you won't make a terrible mistake again? Maybe you have also lost trust in yourself....

I think IC is a great idea as well as acknowledging when you do things well, whether it is at work or deciding to give someone different a compliment or extra help everyday for a week or so and following through (that one may also help you start to reconnect more with others).

One really helpful thing that my IC said to me awhile back was, "you need to learn to be kind to yourself" I was like, holy cow....that's allowed? It doesn't mean it is ok to rugsweep or minimize, etc but it allowed me to let myself work on being a better person BC it helped me realize I still have value. That has helped me move forward in dealing with my A, in becoming a better person and with my BH.

I wish healing for you.

New question:

Today is one of those days when I don't feel well. I don't know if it's jetlag, if I'm coming down with a cold, if I need a good night's sleep, if I miss my son (who's gone on a school trip), if I'm feeling shitty over the affair-aftermath process, if it's the late-winter-no-sunshine blues, or what. I just want to go home, put on my jammies and be comatose in front of the television for a while (even though I know I have stuff I need to work on).

Unfortunately, it seems like every conversation I've had with my husband today has involved me talking about feeling shitty. I know he wants to know what's going on in my head, but today that leads me to feeling like I'm whining about how awful I feel. There really isn't a whole lot more going on between the ears right now. I'm wiped out and trying to stay upright long enough to get home.

How do I adequately communicate without useless whining, without making it all about me, without shutting him out because I'm just too blech to engage? If we were living together, I think this would be easier. We could just flop on the couch together. But all we have right now is long-distance phone calls. Whatever I say or don't say is crucial to the relationship.

Blech

Nezzy

Nezzy, In my IC one of the things my therapist advised me to do was to be really real with my H. Quit smiling and saying everything was ok when it wasn't. Share the details of my day and look to him for emotional support instead of having this transactional relationship that left us both feeling unconnected. If I think of that in context of your question, maybe it's ok for you to tell your H that today is a bad day. Maybe follow up with you miss him, and just hearing his voice makes it a little better. Just a thought. Hope you feel better soon!

Thanks, FamilyFirst. We spent some time on the phone talking this morning before work. I was upfront about not feeling well. He suggested I may be reacting to the absence of our traveling son (a preview of life in the fall when he's away at college). I wasn't hiding anything from him. It just seems like everything since then has included some statement about a rough day. Isn't there a point when enough is enough? I get it already, you're feeling shitty. Now shut up about it.

Maybe I'm overthinking it and shouldn't be so worried about it.

My H has never called me whore or slut but has compared me to very horrible people and uses a lot of statements like "your a married women of 2...what does this make you?"

How's it going everyone???

Doing ok here. Nearly a year out and I am definitely

stronger

wiser

more kind

calm

A better listener

not self absorbed

not entitled.

Need to be

More vulnerable

Less fearful

More mindful

And more.

Familyfirst...

I am a wayward "wife" - although I cannot class myself as a wife at all due to giving a sham marriage - so hope I can post here. If not - please feel free to remove my post.

That's one of my worries about IC... I haven't yet started it but I've been through it before...

How are we to look to our BS for emotional support when we have a bad day when we have put them in a place where they cannot provide that to us? Isn't that still selfish behaviour?

I struggle with things like this because I try to let my BS know but it is then perceived as a pity party - but if I don't try tell her then I feel I'm not being honest and real.

BlackHeart,

Are you a woman?

Did you cheat on your partner?

Then, you are welcome on this thread.

As for your question about leaning on your BS...

It's a bit of a juggling for a long time after DDay. It is selfish to expect her to support you when she is still in the ICU. However, that doesn't mean you should keep anything from her. (If your story is anything like mine, withholding is part of what got you here.) As the work progresses and things start ever so slowly to improve, equilibrium should develop. She leans on you and you lean on her. In the meantime, IC and SI are both good resources for heavy-duty, in-depth support. Of course, make sure you are very careful about who you are talking to (a friend of the relationship) and just how much detail you are sharing. Don't get yourself in trouble again by kicking your lady when she's down.

Keep your wits about you,

Nezzy

P.S. Use the PM feature. Reach out to individuals whose story or comment resonates with you. I've even made friends with a BW. Her friendship, straight talk, and insight have been a blessing.

Nezzy

Thanks for your response.

Thing is - I don't actually have anyone to talk to or anywhere safe to turn - so I'm struggling.

The person I wish I could talk to is the very person I have destroyed.

As for the PM feature - I will not use that as it would be a huge trigger for my BS and I won't disrespect her again.

If I can't tell my BS things going on with me whilst she is in the place I've put her in - then I cannot speak privately to anyone else.

I'm just trying to find ways to take care of me so I can take better care of my BS.

Thanks again...

[This message edited by Blackheart at 3:05 PM, January 21st (Thursday)]

***As a member***

Familyfirst,

In my IC one of the things my therapist advised me to do was to be really real with my H.

Serious question---how are you reconciling (within yourself) acting on this advice from your IC while keeping your cheating from your BH? How can you be 'really real' only when it benefits you?

Blackheart

I get your worry. IC in itself is a selfish endeavor, seems off to do it in a time when you should stop being selfish. I was at the point where I had to change and make connections (both good and bad) or leave my marriage. My H was happy I was engaged again, even if it was in the form of expressing frustration or sadness. I don't know if you and your partner are in that same place. All I know is that faking it wasn't making our relationship any better.

authenticnow

(Is it appropriate to say I'm a big fan? I am!)

I can see where it's easy to draw a line between not confessing and "being real" and finding a disconnect. Here's my attempt to explain. I've read on here that after an A your old marriage is gone, and you can either build a new one or leave. I choose to build a new one. My M had many problems prior to my A. My H spent many years treating me poorly. In MC (post A) we unraveled his resentment towards my career successes. His pulling away from me physically in part to make him feel better that I needed him. I offer this info not to blameshift why I had the A, but to show that we both were faulty partners. One night after I ended the A, we were in a row and he said "Can we just start over and forget the past??" and I thought, yeah, let's do that. That was not an easy thing to do. I struggled letting go of his past actions. I wanted to hold on to my righteousness. But of course I didn't deserve that. Not anymore. Maybe I wasn't entitled to decide if that was a fair trade. I can only say I did what I thought was lesser of all the hurts and the only way to keep our M moving forward. As time goes by I stand by that decision. I would jump in front of a truck to save my H the pain I read from many of the BHs. There's more than selfishness in me saying that, there's real love and compassion too.

I know that answer won't be satisfactory to you (or anyone else). My intent is not to convince anyone this is the correct path. Just to explain why/how I got here. With this new beginning we are both better partners and happier than we've been in many years. My boundaries are worlds better. I'm a wife deserving and grateful EVERY DAY of this M, of this family. I'm sure he can feel that. It's real, and so are all the other emotions and experiences I share with him every day now. My A is not a part of my life anymore. The A has no place in our new beginning.

Thank you for the consideration to try to understand my pov. I appreciate it and all you do for this odd little community. It has made a huge impact on my life.

[This message edited by familyfirst at 3:25 PM, January 22nd (Friday)]

I am in desperate need of some support or hope or something. It's been 6 months since DDay. I'm seriously failing at helping the situation. It's been 6 weeks since I asked to R.

I'm in IC weekly. I'm doing a lot of reading, journaling, amongst other things to work on myself. My BH asks me to stay in IC until May and he will reassess then whether he wants to try again. I'm perfectly okay with that. He first says he wants me to "chase" him like he did me in the beginning. Now he says that he doesn't want any "deep" talk from me regarding our relationship.

In doing some reading, I realized that 6 weeks ago, I wasn't as clear as I thought to my AP about it being over. Horrified, I sent a text message to AP restating things and making sure it was clear. I emailed this to my BH because I don't want to communicate with AP without my BH knowledge and I thought it was a good thing to do to show your BH the closure.

This really angered my BH because he said it gave him flashbacks. Yesterday, I also emailed all of my username and passwords to everything, even bank and work email stuff, emailed proof of therapy, and access to be able to locate my phone. I deleted any messenger apps and gave him access to be able to view all apps I download or currently have. I am paying his cell phone bill, paying most of our mutual bills, his car payment, insurance, etc. I promised I'd help him through school and I want to keep that promise.

Today I'm told to cease contact altogether until his school semester is over in May. Then he will reassess if he wants to try again then. I don't know how to deal with the consistent stream of curse words being hurled at me. It hurts when he calls me an immoral person with low self-esteem. Every time he uses the 'F' word in anger, it's difficult to rebound from that. Or when he tells me that he is going to do something that would really mess me up financially if my behavior isn't the way he wants it, and the only reason he's capable of doing it was because of my attempt to help him financially. And moreover, that the only positive feelings I can cause in him are from financial help.

Does it get better? Does it get easier? I don't retaliate or do anything other than apologize of course, but how do I keep from going home and curling in a ball and crying my eyes out? How do I stay focused on him? The motivation to fix myself for myself has not changed. How do I stay motivated to fix our marriage when it seems as if I cause him so much anger and so much pain? It's hard not to just think, he'd be so much better without me. And what's more, I don't understand if he is so angry, so bitter, so disgusted by everything about me, why is he even contemplating giving me another chance.

I feel guilty for how pity-party sounding this message is. I know I should be focused on him, and I know I deserve this pain, but if I don't address my own pain, I'll never be able to become a better partner for him.

I calmed down a significant amount after writing all of that out.

I think the most ironic thing of all is that I'd give just about anything to have him right here next to me, to hold him, have his head in my lap and stroke his hair.

The amount that I miss him, and the guilt I feel for everything I did to him...there are no words.

I have so many deeper issues that I'm dealing with: Daddy issues, infertility on my part, sexual abuse as a child...and none of that pain is anything compared to the way I feel when I think about the pain I caused him. I have never allowed myself to feel anything for another person like I have in the last 6 weeks. I've never loved someone so much that I allow my pride, ego, and determination to be right completely go out the window and instead of heating up and fighting back when someone insults me, all I can do is hang my head, fight back tears, and completely agree with the insults. I've never felt like I owed anyone complete 100% honesty. I've never felt comfortable with anyone having the upper hand or with me loving someone more than they love me. And now, I would give my right (and nearly useless) ovary just to spend one hour in his presence. Not even to have him pay attention to me but just to see the cute little freckles on his nose, hear his little grunts of frustration when he cannot figure out the solution to an overwhelming math problem, watch him sleep and the way his mouth opens just a tiny bit in his sleep...I don't know when I became this hopeless, love sick, vulnerable, and caring being, and even though it's scary as hell, at least it's something to cling to.

Lily308,

I am sorry you are here by circumstance but yet it is a good place to get support.

You are in difficult situation. The verbal abuse can be bad. At one point my counselor suggested I say something like (when way too much "venting" was occurring), I'm going to ask you to stop and if there is something you want to discuss, I would be happy to....or it sounds like you are really angry, do you need some space? I know there are those on here who think the BS should get whatever they want , but IMHO, there comes a point when it has to start being productive or else the damage is going to be too destructive from endless "venting".

It is hard to do BC of course you risk him not talking to you at that time. I got to the point where I couldn't take any more. Just too broken down. So I started very gently pushing back when things were crossing the verbal abuse line. Of course I was only able to do that when I had done some work on myself and had a little confidence and strength back.

It does usually seem to get better. I am only a year out but those intense interactions become less frequent and hopefully you will start to have convos about A instead.

It sounds like your partner has asked for space until May. That is a toughy. My husband definitely needs space at times and at first, it was so hard for me to give it and not be an anxiety ridden wreck. Yet, the first time I gave him space , about three days later we had more of a talk and it felt like we started to process some stuff.

I would try to give him space for him and work on you. Hopefully, When he has that space, he will find he doesn't need it for that long, but everyone is different.

As for triggering him, your intention sounds like it was good. Hopefully he will realize that. If that situation comes up again you could let him know that you are glad he let you know some things that trigger him and ask if there is anything else you can do to help him in the future to avoid triggers. One of the hardest parts is the ups and downs. One day my husband is upset BC I am not snuggling enough and the next he doesn't want to be touched but overall he has told me to hug, etc whenever I would normally want to. Well....it really doesn't work like that. At least not yet.

Hopefully one of the mods or guides will have some better insight but I hope sharing my experience helps somehow.

(((Hugs)))

Take care of yourself and be strong.

FF,

I appreciate the kind words. I'm glad SI has been a help to you. It is a very special place, that's for sure.

I cannot wrap my brain around the idea that a marriage built on deception, new or not, is a healthy one.

My BH did experience the most excruciating pain of his life when he discovered my As, but it was honest and necessary, IMO, for us to move forward. I needed accountability, he needed the truth. I couldn't live with the secrets. It was harming my health, H's gut was screaming. The deception was killing us.

H owned his part in the problems of our pre d-day marriage, but those problems were to be sorted out after we processed the terrible choices I made and the devastation that I caused.

We also have what I guess you could say a new marriage, and it's built on honesty. Without it I'm sure we wouldn't have been where we are.

Again, not my call to make for your M.

Do you ever wonder if your BH will find out? And then what?

We also have what I guess you could say a new marriage, and it's built on honesty

I am in awe of the capacity some BHs have to forgive. I don't think everyone has that in them. Particularly men. I'm very glad your situation worked out the way it did. I don't mean this argumentatively, but I truly wonder how many others end up trying to build a new marriage on a foundation of mistrust, pain and resentment.

Do you ever wonder if your BH will find out? And then what?

I used to agonize about that a lot. Much less these days, I suppose because the daily lies feel further and further away and we are (for the most part) happy. If he found out, I have no doubt he would want a divorce. Having my family together is a daily gift.

I am bumping this because seeing there was a thread for WW's helped me feel not so alone. And I thought there might be other WW's who feel the same. Has anyone else been isolating themselves from others? I think I am battling shame right now because of my serial cheating and embarrassment and disgust with who I have been and it is hard to look people in the eye some days.

How has anyone else built their confidence up? Anything helpful that you are saying to yourself?

Lost,

I noticed we joined about the same time and I too am guilty of serial cheating. Idk about you but for me that feeling of shame was incredibly powerful and all consuming, some days it completely took over me with some serious anxiety too. I've pretty much overcome the shame, though sometimes something will trigger it and I can feel it just as greatly as if it were the weeks that followed Dday. I'm starting to think that a WS goes through the stages of grief as well, though it's different from our BS and nowhere near the extent to that of our BS. And I think by doing the hard work that's necessary a lot quicker too. I also think that if we acknowledge the importance of acceptance we can bring ourselves to that point as we work through the rest. Because I found that it was quite difficult to start the internal work while the shame was wreaking havoc upon me.

The past as we know all too well cannot be changed or forgotten. And so all we can do is accept it. Accept like you mentioned it was who you HAVE been. Not who you are now and definitely not who you ever want to be again. I found it to be very helpful when the spiral of shame was setting in to just stop those intrusive thoughts and replace them with all the ways I have progressed. Things I could be proud of that I am doing now and healthier goals I've set for my better and brighter future.

I really think a common problem with WS is a lot of negative thinking and I'm talking a life time of it. Most of the time I believe it's almost like it's done instinctively. And maybe we're not all that aware of it either.

I've been paying a lot more attention to my thoughts. We have so many thoughts that pop into our minds on a daily basis and I feel like a large percent of them go unnoticed in a sense. There really is something to being more mindful of our thoughts and feelings and properly dealing with the unhealthy ones in a constructive way. And you've got to face the shame head on. And I don't think isolation is helpful at all. I think you probably know that too. I think your confidence will increase as you look certain people in the eyes as well, don't worry about what anyone thinks, no one's thoughts or opinions about you should hold any bearing on your worth.

I think there are things that people can and cannot come back from. Infidelity is certainly something we can redeem ourselves from. Try to keep that in mind. Are you not a better person than you were yesterday or 5 months ago? I would answer a BIG yes for you. Gather some confidence from that too. There's not a whole lot of things we can be proud of right now but find things that you can be proud about through a positive filter and put your focus there. Actually put all your focus on the new, no need to dwell on the old. What's done is done accept that try to come to peace with it and ask yourself what can be done now. Keep working on it, challenge yourself to beat it and overcome.

Thanks so much for posting, ladies. Warning - I'm not having a very good day.

I am battling shame and isolation myself. My dday was three months ago and I faced a very public outting in a very small town. I am somewhat of a public figure. After a month or so, I stopped ducking in and out of walmart. I thought perhaps it wasn't as bad as I thought. Then I had several pretty big wake up calls that I was still very much the topic of small town gossip. When I meet someone and identify myself I'm always wondering if they are saying, "Oh! So this is her." The isolation isn't voluntary. I am very much the persona non grata of my town. I can't go to the gym as my most recent AP was from the gym. I can't attend our weekly card games as several APs were from our card group. What husband would want his wife hanging out with me? I never really had many female friends anyway. I have a new friend who is going through a rough spell as well, but she is such a good girl and I worry about how our friendship might be effecting her.

My IC says "what other people think of me is none of my business." I've also read in the Feeling Good book about not worrying with what others think. I get that really, but if you are treated like a leper because of what people think about you, it has real consequences.

Some days I feel as there is no redemption. Never. Especially not for us women.

The only thing that has helped even a little is remembering that we all have our demons, our skeletons. Just because I don't know yours and you do know mine doesn't make you better than me.

Thank you for the responses. It really does help so much! This sentence in particular, forever, brought tears to my eyes

Are you not a better person than you were yesterday or 5 months ago? I would answer a BIG yes for you.

I know I am better. In my shame, I get angry with myself for thinking that I was justifying my cheating and lying because it was "empowering". Yeah...empowering to take advantage of my BH, degrade myself and my character, ignore the damage I was doing to myself, my BH and my marriage, and destroy our lives and dreams I have a hard time watching a lot of TV dramas because I find that kind of "empowerment" on so many shows and it triggers me. I see it now for what it is-ugliness, selfishness, childishness, and poison. Food Network has been my safe haven.

I agree with you completely on the stages of grief, but I think for me it's like a cycle. And every so often, the shame really gets me. What I ended up doing this morning was writing down who the woman is that I am working to become, and asked myself how she would tackle today. And started with things one step at a time. I refuse to let the shame debilitate me.

I love your advice about acknowledging the areas of growth and giving myself credit. I agree with it and I think I have told others similar things, but remembering to apply that to myself is key!

I'm also lucky enough to have family members within an hour's drive so if I feel the need to isolate myself, I can, instead, see them and spend time with them to recharge.

Overall, forever, your whole post was more helpful than I can ever say.

Done,

The only thing that has helped even a little is remembering that we all have our demons, our skeletons. Just because I don't know yours and you do know mine doesn't make you better than me.

I actually may put this into a mantra when I'm feeling insecure in a crowd of new people. I can't imagine the fight you are doing to keep your self esteem from taking further blows. You are definitely a strong person, Done. Stronger than anyone in your town will ever know.