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Stu:

"I don't know how strong I am. Who is or was this woman I'm married to. How could she have sunk so low? I'm trying to be a supportive husband. But after what I have learned about her it's horrible; multiple numbers of guys used her and then pissed in and on her! This is my wife, the women I care about, the women I would die for, it hurts. My eyes are red from the tears. "

Man, this is all so heartbreaking, Stu. For you, and for your wife. I hope you'll forgive me for going long here on a response, and making a few assumptions based on what you've shared already.

---

When you started sharing, it seemed solely a story about your own humiliation and trauma in learning how some "Mr. Adonis" degraded your wife, and mocked your name, in the very earliest hours of your engagement.

Yet, as you've told the full story, it's now clear her Adonis encounter was a part of a bigger, repeating fractal. Your wife had been used, abused, degraded and victimized by men for years before she met you.

Mr. Adonis was, it seems, was the last scumbag in a long line- and, like those before him, he degraded your wife and himself. That she was a willing participant, in light of the bigger picture pattern, seems far more tragic to me now than salacious. Because it suggests that your wife spent years believing her sole worth and purpose was to be found in her beauty and her sexual exploitation by men.

I know you're traumatized to learn all this, but man, I can't even imagine the agony your wife has felt to have carried so much secret shame for these years.

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One part of your unfolding story really caught my eye. That fact that your wife still sleeps with a Teddy Bear.

A girl in my dorm in college did this. She was a sex-abuse victim as a child. She did it because it reminded her of a happier time in life; a time that she could never return to. A time when she felt safe, joyful, and gently and purely loved. A time before she knew what shame was, before she was so badly damaged by the cruelty of depraved men.

Stu, none of us can tell you how to feel. But man, from my faraway seat, it looks so different now...

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CONSIDER:

If she's warned you that Marriage Counseling will surely end the marriage (because it might expose her to your judgment)...

...Then I can't help but think your wife has chosen these actions because she needs a good, caring, gentle man like you so damn badly- but she does not believe she could ever deserve one now, Stu.

Your good friend, the one who helped your wife escape from part of her past hell, showed her as much:

"He told me he loved (don’t mean romantic) my wife, and was there for her, but he couldn’t be her boyfriend. He couldn’t deal with her past, he had asked me if that made him a bad person."

This doesn't make him a bad person. It sounds like your BF may have saved her life. But I'm sure it still hurts her all the same to know that the hero who helped free her from the hell of sex and drug abuse could not bring himself to love her, too. Her sexual shames were simply too ugly for him to overlook.

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You don't have to stay in this marriage. Nobody would blame you for thinking it too much to ask. You could walk away from her, tell her she tricked you, and that you never would've married her if you'd known her disturbing past.

I suspect, Stu, that she's been terrified of that very conversation for your entire marriage. Afraid that if you really knew the "true" her, you'd cast her aside and find a "better woman", and she'd be back, once again, in the world of Good Men she doesn't deserve and Bad Men she doesn't want.

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BUT ALSO CONSIDER:

If your wife has been faithful to you in this marriage...

If you love the woman she's been to you in your marriage (even though you didn't know who she was before it) then I just gotta say...

If you have the strength, Stu, you could be a hero to her like no other man she has ever known.

---

You said before that you love her so much you would die for her. That's exactly what this revelation might soon ask of you- for you to die to self, if you're willing to. By forgiving her for keeping her pre-marital past from you, you could show your wife a portrait of what the perfect, self-sacrificing love of a strong, good-hearted man really looks like.

---

I know I'm just some random stranger among many, offering $.02 advice, based on one-sided anecdotes on an infidelity blog... I'm not telling you what to do. You still have so much you need to learn, to discuss. You need to time to process all this, and Lord, you both need counseling so badly.

So don't rush any decisions- this is obviously of the profoundest importance to you, your wife, and your child, too.

But if you do one day decide to forgive your wife the secrets of her past, and not just reconcile with her but to redeem her, do not ever think yourself weak again. Or inferior to any man on earth.

Because man, only superheroes have that kind of strength, Stu. I really mean that.

[This message edited by Hosea at 1:31 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]

Hosea makes a very valid point.

Stu, the ball really is in your court.

How could a person consciously allow others to degrade them the way she described?

^^^Because they are seriously messed up. Some abuse survivors have such a hidden shame that they internalized a belief that they are worthless (deserved the abuse) and thus engage in more behavior that validates that view. You need to get up to speed on this. Granted it is horrific to be sure, but really she is the victim (of others and of herself).

I keep thinking I married a tramp, whore, slut; she's the mother of my children.

^^^ well you did, but she was messed up something bad. Now she is NOT that anymore - assuming what you have been told is true.

you know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all

^^^Is that really true? If she is not now what she was then, the true statement is that you did not know who she was then.

How could a person consciously allow others to degrade them the way she described?

^^^Because they are seriously messed up. Some abuse survivors have such a hidden shame that they internalized a belief that they are worthless (deserved the abuse) and thus engage in more behavior that validates that view. You need to get up to speed on this. Granted it is horrific to be sure, but really she is the victim (of others and of herself).

I keep thinking I married a tramp, whore, slut; she's the mother of my children.

^^^ well you did, but she was messed up something bad. Now she is NOT that anymore.

you know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all

^^^Is that really true? If she is not now what she was then, the true statement is that you did not know who she was then.

That kind of disordered wayward thinking just doesn't "turn off" on your wedding day.

^^^No it doesn't - but then again the wedding day was 10 years ago.

Stu, this is your life's journey. The boulder you have been asked to carry now is heavy indeed. I am praying for you and your heart. You will not be blamed for however you choose.

(probably cross posted with others)

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 3:49 PM, March 14th (Friday)]

What Hosea said. Hell, I am inspired now. Can we bring light to tragic darkness....

Stu, I'm here, will give a better explanation of my views tonight.

The brief view is that you've been lied to your whole M. You've been tasked to carry a load that you were never given the choice to refuse. Yes, her circumstances were horrible. I'm concerned with you.

Strength

Hi Stu,

We all (BS) I think come to SI and realize that our WS was not who we imagined and perceived them to be. I think it is also true that we all bring damage from our childhood years into our M. The degrees of damage varies for sure. FWW saw me as having an ideal and 'normal' childhood and parents, yet I had work yet to do.

Hosea posted:

... you could be a hero to her like no other man ...

I see this with my own FWW. Her alcoholic and wayward mother taught her to feel little value for herself and to use sex to win and hold attention from men while at the same time teaching her to blame her husband for life's problems. An uncle, a rapist, men she worked with and men she worked for, an xH, and her BIL are all amongst the men in her life who reinforced those lessons. When she took her fears and concerns about her mother and the uncle to her father he did nothing. She hinted at this past, but was afraid that if I knew her truth I would not like her, that I would leave her. She did not feel she deserved me.

So far in FWW's life, I am the first and only man to love her for who she is and for what we were together. She did not realize this until after dday. Much of our past M was dysfunctional because she assumed I was like all other men. If I hugged her it was because I wanted sex. If I got angry about anything, it was because I did not like her because she was not pretty enough, smart enough or sexual enough. In her mind she was never good enough for me.

FWW understands all of this now, and continues to make progress to be a healthier person. I will never have the idealistic M we all would like for the first 20 years, but I can support my children's mother, as she saves herself. She and I work together now to counter bad behaviors and ideas she exposed our children to during the first 20 years to try and provide the skills our children need for healthier relationships.

It is much easier to look back 4 years and see and understand this. I can now say "that was then, this is now" and not feel like I am rug sweeping or making an excuse not to D. During the first years I moved out once and pursued D when I felt FWW had slacked off on doing the work she needed to do to be a healthy M partner.

I will never have the past I wanted or thought I had, but I do have the M I wanted now. I have a W who loves me, is a good mother, and a wonderful person. Sure she was damaged, but weren't we all. She owns that and continues to work at being a healthier, more 'normal' person. Had we been much younger maybe I could have started over, but I am now glad I stayed. I take pride in many parts of my life, especially what my FWW and I have done to R our M.

Give yourself time to absorb, process, and accept all you have just found out. Really think about how your M to your W has been, and who she is now. Do not feel bad about doing whatever you need to do to take care of yourself.

ETA: The first step is to understand that nothing your W did reflects on you.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:06 PM, March 14th (Friday)]

Hosea has stated the case very eloquently, and atsenaotie has as well. My wife also was abused when younger and lived a double life of great success compounded by hidden shame over what others had done to her. Shame is a powerful thing and it totally colors a persons view of who they are. My wife felt like if she did not please everybody all of the time she would be discovered to be the worthless piece of shit she felt she was. This despite the fact literally everybody who met her even before she admitted her alchoholism and near split personality (madonna/whore complex) thought she was the most together, extroverted, and compassionate person they had ever met. I thought that too, and it was not until she started dealing with the alcohol addiction and in suicidal pain engaged in an EA with an equally scarred coworker that I learned the full extent of her pain. It was hard but we made it through that hell. What got me through was first realizing I had the power to bestow upon her the gift I would want to receive if the situation was reversed- the gift of forgiveness. Secondly it was the hard earned acceptance that anything she did that I found hurtful was done out of her deep shame caused by sexual and physical abuse. The second is a very tough nut to crack, and nobody would blame you if you went the route of your bf and continued to care about her but could not continue to have an intimate relationship with her. Still if you can divorce yourself from ego, you may be able to find peace in understanding you cannnot control anything but what you do. As Hosea said you can be the superhero that she needs to believe in her and accept and forgive her past, and help her to finally truly heal. It is a tall order no doubt, but remember we all are flawed and imperfect, some have travelled a much more horrendous path than others, but all are deserving of grace. Whatever you decide to do she needs your support to whatever degree you are able to offer it.

[This message edited by ming56 at 9:20 PM, March 14th (Friday)]

Hey buddy just remember if there is no infidelity why you were married, well then you have do your best to forget about her past you definitely need to go to therapy and communication with your wife always. She should want to help you get past this horrible past of her. By her doing her part should be an indication that she wants this marriage last.

But people that been abused from reading in here are prone to have affairs. and she also made a comment that she had urges to have sex with other people but she didn't..? red flags watch out... Trust but verify

[This message edited by trojan007 at 11:17 PM, March 14th (Friday)]

Stu, as you may have noticed, a lot of posters are giving you great advice. I'm curious as to how you are doing.

When I referred to IC in my earlier post, it had very little to do with you being able to let the past be the past. It was mostly referring to you being able to answer the questions in your own mind. Quite frankly you are living your own worst nightmare.

Now I find I’m married to one of those people, “scum.” Yes I am prejudice. I’m troubled when I caller that.

How did you wind up with her? What was the attraction? Personally, I'm a KISA(knight in shining armor). A *fixer* in other words. My story is my user name. Five women, 5 cheaters. I was attracted to women who I could *fix*. Guess what, I was wrong. I ask those questions and gave that example because don't you find it a little *odd* that you actually picked a woman who you were so adamantly opposed to being with? Out of all the women in the world you could have picked, why her?

I think that you need to answer these questions before you make a decision. Everyone does have a past, in that, I agree with the other posters. Almost everyone deserves a second chance. Maybe you will be the one to offer it to her. Right now though, I think you need to do some inner soul searching to find yourself. IC will help you do that.

If she has really done the work on herself to heal from her abuse, she will understand. She will be supportive in YOUR healing process and whatever that entails. I have my doubts about that. There's a saying thrown around here rather frequently that I tend to believe. *Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing*. She hid a whole other life from you. Never trusted you enough to share.

As the years past, and I would ask about her past boyfriends

What does that say?

Maybe she's being honest now. IDK, her actions will speak volumes. Her words? Not so much. She has to be completely honest and open with you from here out. She needs to rebuild your trust from the foundation up.

IC for you to determine if that's what you truly want and can accept.

Brother, I'm so sorry. Sending you strength to get through the coming days.

hosea put into words what i was thinking. what an incredible post. i agree so much with him!

I am who I am because of my past. She is who she is because of her past.

Stu, be careful how you view this.

If you look at this negatively, then you are nothing but a dirty condom washer. Your wife is nothing but a whore.

Both of you have come far, but her issues lie way deeper. From what you are posting, she is trying to communicate with you---the KEY to getting past this. I can only imagine how brutal this must be for her to admit to the one she admires most.

This is huge progress in my opinion, even if you can't see this right now. The floodgates are opening. And remember, you wanted the trust. You wanted honesty. And while I am sure that there are more secrets to come out, they are now being dealt with....in a far more healthy manner than you currently believe.

My biggest issue is still with Mr. Adonis(can't we just refer to him as Mr. POS?). That story still needs to be dealt with(in therapy) about how that transpired. Ten years ago, her past was not as much a distant past as today, but we were still dealing with a "modern era" of your wife...and those behaviors were unacceptable.

On a side note---that POS was making his move again on New Years Eve? Bring that fucker down. His wife needs to know, gently, what a scumbag piece of shit he is. I'd like to get my hands around his neck, just knowing that he hasn't changed in 10 years. End of sidenote.

Stu, you will never unlearn what was in your wife's past. But if she is trying to be open and honest with you about that....something that you nor I will EVER understand the pain of....then that is showing me someone who really wants to work through this as a couple. Hosea is right, the teddy bear behavior really hits home. Being scared your whole life is no way to live. And while the last ten years may have been her best by far, you really don't know how scared she has been through this. I can only imagine.

The point is, according to your posts, is that she is now TRYING. She is communicating to the best of her flawed ways of doing so. It has only been days since you have been bombarded with this. With some time, and counseling(individual and marital), huge progress may be made. But you have to be committed. That is not meant to put pressure on you, but just to remind you that it takes two fully committed people to have a shot at success. For what it is worth, I think that the two of you will make it....if you are all in.

No decisions need to be made today. Take time to process. View your wife's actions. She has let down a HUGE emotional wall in her life. Let's hope that she can continue.

One last thing---you can and will drive yourself crazy about the "what ifs", like your children discovering information. THAT is the type of mindset that needs to be compartmentalized---because it is a hypothetical. You will deal with that as...or if...it arises. Just like you are dealing with your current discoveries.

Thank you Hosea for your words. As I read your post I started to cry, I've been doing a lot of that lately. I do still adore and love my wife, she has been the reason I found excitement to each and every day; her and my 2 children. I am an obsessive person, when I do something I put everything I have into it. I plan and learn all I can so the outcome of what I'm doing is successful. We had worked to make our marriage successful. The last ten years had been wonderful. Yes, we have had our arguments and bitterness about some things, but we always respected each other and never let anything get in the way of our relationship. But this has thrown a monkey wrench into every thing I thought and believed, and seems insurmountable. My wife just told me more tragedy in her past life. Now that I have learned even more about my wife, I'm devastated.

5454real, to answer your questions, I don’t know how I’m doing, I do get a little sleep at night and my doctor gave me meds to reduce my anxiety.

My BF and I went to the same high school and he and I became friends the last year of middle school. My wife also went to the same high school, but my BF and I didn’t know her. I think she had been a junior when we were freshmen. We only knew of her as another body walking through the school hallways or saw her at sports events; there was never any social contact. We did talk about how “hot” she was, but we did that with just about every girl at school; we were teen boys. My BF and I graduated and went off to college and lost contact with each other for a while. I went out of state and he went to our local college. That was the same college my wife was attending, that’s where he met her and developed a relationship with her.

After I graduated school I earned a graduate degree and found a job in the area near my university. A few years after that I moved back to my original home community. After all the years away (maybe 6 years), I felt like a stranger and didn’t really have any friends except my BF, but I really didn’t hang with him much. After a month back home I was in the supermarket and I saw this young woman trying to get an item off the top shelf. I asked her if she needed help. That’s how I met my wife; we talked and realized we had gone to the same high school. I found out she was single and I asked her for her phone number. She told me to call any time and I did.

Last night we went out for dinner and wound up at a motel so we could talk with out the kids around. I asked my wife again if she ever cheated since her weekend with that guy. She said she didn’t feel at the time she was cheating, she believed our time together was over or ending. But after the phone call (marriage proposal) she knew she wanted to be with me. I rephrased the question to her, had she slept with any one since that weekend. She said no, BUT! She said about a week and a half after my proposal, that guy she had sex with, called her and said he wanted to apologize for his behavior and wanted to take her to dinner as his apology, she said no, then after he spoke to her more, excepted. She said he brought her flowers with a card that said he was sorry for his deplorable behavior. She said he was extremely charming, during dinner they had a number of drinks to acknowledge that he had been an ass. He drove her home and she invited him in for coffee. As they talked he got amorous and the two wound up in her bed. She said as they were beginning to get into it she realized she was a fool, that he was manipulating her into doing something she would regret for the rest of her life. She told him to leave, he did. She said nothing happened, there was no sex. Yes, they were naked together and there had been a lot of grouping and kissing, no intercourse. She said that after he left she called her physiologist and saw her the next day and they talked about why it happened. She said she realized that I was the only one she loved and said no apology could make up for what happened. She told me that she has not been with anyone, except me in all the years we have been married.

She then said she needed to tell me something that was extremely dificult about herself. She said she had had three children that she gave up for adoption. She had a son who she believes might have been my BF’s, she wasn’t sure. During the time she was with my BF she was also involved with her old boyfriend who called her occasionally. She never told my BF she had been pregnant, she didn’t know if it was his child. She delivered it some months after they split up. He doesn’t know and would prefer it remain that way. I said more deception, It’s not right. She repeated, it might not have been his. I said, YOU need to tell him.

She continued telling me that during the time with Paco she had twins, a boy and girl. It was after that pregnancy that she called my BF for help. She said she has no idea who the father was; that she had sex with so many strangers there was no way to know. She said it could have been Paco’s as well. She said she had been whore, something for guys to abuse. Paco sold the children to a couple who wanted kids. She said she doesn’t know anything more about the children. We both were crying through all of this. I felt like I was dying a slow death. How much more was there to my wife. I kept thinking how do I continue with her. So to answer the question, how am I? I don’t know!

Stu, I find a lot of what you've related here very disturbing.

First, if this is all true, you have been deceived by the people around on you a level that is truly extraordinary. We're talking everything from your wife living with your best friend, to multiple secret children, to your wife hooked on heavy drugs, in rehab "for years" and involved in the sex trade. If this is the case, you need to look seriously at how this was possible from your end. I'm not blaming you, but you've been married to the woman for 10 years and nothing signaled to you that something was off? When she couldn't account for years of her life in casual conversation? None of her friends and family ever let anything slip in a decade of the two of you together that would have tipped you off that she hadn't been forthcoming about some aspects of her past? No scars, stretch marks, anything on her body that you asked about? No contacts from people in her past? No references that she made in casual conversation that would have told you she had experience in things like drugs, adoption, prostitution, porn, rehab, the sex trade? If that is the case, you haven't just been deceived. You've been systematically conned.

Second, I don't see your timeline adding up at all. I tell you this because, again, if you think this is true, you are still not getting the truth. If she was ahead of you in school, yet dropped out of college to go live with "Paco" in PR, how is it possible that she dated and lived with your BF for any significant amount of time before she left? If you went on to college and grad school, yet moved back home after about 6 years, how could she have had time to both go to PR, have several secret children (while still working for Paco), get out and go through extensive rehab all while going back to college as an honors student?

You know, SI is a sacred place to a lot of us. It gets us through some of the darkest points in our lives. Being able to come to this forum openly and honestly is extremely important. People are taking time out of their lives to try to act as a support to one another, be genuine, offer guidance. I've only been on this site for a year, but I have yet to see someone experience the kinds of systematic revelations that you have. You say you have young children. In that case, I don't care how wonderful a mother she has seemed over the years, your wife is a recovering drug addict with years of sexual abuse. She shouldn't be going into therapy occasionally for tune ups. She should be going weekly. And you should, too. If for nothing else but that this is a site is a poor substitute for the level of professional help it sounds like you and your family need.

PhantomLimb, I never asked questions, I had no reason to. The only friends we had were the ones we made since we were together or the parents of our kid’s friends. Her parents were elderly and we saw them occasionally, maybe at holiday times and she had no other relatives and she was an only child. She would speak with her mom on the phone sometimes, but our contact with them was minimal. I didn’t have much contact with my family either. Our family was basically just us.

I showed her your post and she became quite angry that I was sharing her private history with strangers. She said she went to a shelter in NYC after dropping out freshman year and had the baby there, then left for PR. It was before dropping out that she had been with my BF. She met Paco soon after arriving in PR at an interview. About a year or so after the first birth she had the other children and from the hospital she called my BF. They flew back and she went into rehab. After being discharged she went back to school and was treated while going to school.

I have been dealing with this stress for 3 months. It has only been a few days that I have been here. I was lucky to find all of you. The pouring out of emotions has helped me to keep my sanity; to put things in perspective. As of next Thursday I’m scheduled to see someone, I’m going alone. I wouldn’t have scheduled an appointment if it weren’t for the push from here.

Yeah this makes no sense.

First off twins are usually delivered c section you would have seen a scar. But let's just say they weren't. Her body would have visible signs of pregnancy after twins and a onesie. But let's just say not.

Her gyno at her first visit for your first baby would have known she had children before and asked about it and noted it on her chart. So I assume you never went with your wife to her prenatal check ups.

This whole time line, also, does not add up in a way that screams. She carried two full term pregnancies and spent years in rehab but went right back to college like it's all good?

Also? Where do you get this twisted stuff from? A fraternity playing tug of war with her body? I notice how you mention internet sites with this kind of stuff...is that what sparked your imagination? Because if real men really did that, she'd be dead. Also, if she had to be treated at an ER for cuts or burns etc she would still have scars.

I've stated in previous posts I worked in adult entertainment for a full three years. I've met some very strange and very bad people. I dated the manager of a well known nightclub when I was barely old enough to drink.

And I don't believe this story, it's tawdry, salacious, and just plain gross, but it makes no sense. You just found out your own wife gave birth to twins by your own best friend, but they were sold by Paco? Really? In every post you seem intent on piling on.

I know some people will blast me for not offering hugs and support but *news flash* not everything you read on the internet is true.

I’m going alone

Stu, this is critical. You HAVE to work on you first. Right now the marriage has to take a back seat. If she doesn't understand, she is NOT remorseful. She has no concept of the level of damage she has done.

Fix you first brother.

Strength

Catching up here but I have to agree with PhantomLimb and Absolut.

I don't have any advice for you as this is beyond what I could give advice for. Best of luck to you Stu

As I said I’ve scheduled an appointment for myself for next Thursday, I’m going alone. I will tell every detail to the psychologist I’m seeing, and then go from there. I need to take care of me if I’m going to be able to take care of anyone else.

She said she went to a shelter in NYC after dropping out freshman year and had the baby there, then left for PR. It was before dropping out that she had been with my BF.

My wife also went to the same high school, but my BF and I didn’t know her. I think she had been a junior when we were freshmen.

Okay, so she lived with your BF when you were both still in high school, huh? I mean, this is the kind of stuff that has us calling bullshit, Stu.

As I said I’ve scheduled an appointment for myself for next Thursday, I’m going alone. I will tell every detail to the psychologist I’m seeing, and then go from there. I need to take care of me if I’m going to be able to take care of anyone else.

This is the best idea you've come up with yet.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 2:15 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]