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She cried and said if we need to go to MC she would. She said she was afraid if I found out about her I’d leave that’s why she was hesitant to go.

^^^stu, you are now in a better place. keep up the hard emotional work.

My wife and I just had an other little talk. She has told me more about her past. I'm having trouble processing it. I'll be back when I can write. I'll need some insight about it.

Stu:

I know you've had an agonizing road so far-- but it's encouraging that your wife seems to be opening up. I hope you guys can keep talking through things honestly, and that this whole difficult period can eventually bring you closer together.

So Stu, when you came across her diary, was it in a box inside a trash bag? <-- this is something tangible and verifiable since you found the diary and she has told you a *story* about what happened to it. According to her it was boxed and bagged....is that how you found it?

She said she told him to stop taking pictures and writing in her diary, but he joked about it and just continued doing what he wanted. She said she tried to stop him, but he was bigger than her and he kept doing it and teasing. She said that at one point he threated to tie her to the bed and call his buddies, he didn’t.

Ok, plausible.

During all of this she said all she did was think of me and what she was doing to screw everything up.

NOT as plausible since, according to her, she thought that there was no future for the 2 of you.

Then came the phone call, she said she didn’t want to answer it or talk to anybody, but he gave her the phone and seemed to enjoy his power trip.

This really doesn't make sense in context. By this point she was supposedly flummoxed with the guy taking pictures, writing in her diary, and threatening to let his friends have their *way* with her, but at the time that you called (which was after the aforementioned irritations)....she was in bed with him, having sex. Does this *really* hold water with you, stu?

After he left she wrote in her diary as a catharsis, to vent.

Again, if I recall correctly, you had access to that diary. Did you read a subsequent *vent* by her about the encounter?

To be honest, I think that she's been blowing smoke up your ass.

Also, be very mindful of the person who tells you of childhood issues/traumas. Don't let these disclosures make you forget about the forest because of the trees. Take everything that your WW discloses to you in with a "thank you for sharing" attitude, but try not to get sucked into it. This *might* be a tactic of deflection on her part.

Also. You are so laser-focused on the *past*.....but at some point you are going to have to point-blank ask her about her behavior during the marriage. I'm curious as to whether that has been brought up at all, by either you or her?

stu, keep in mind that this stuff is in her past, before you. or as Timon says, "you got to put your behind in your past."

gonnabe, please remember I'm writing what I remember from an emotional state. Yes it was in a box and plastic bag. I read her diary, I was shocked and crying by what I read. I was taking everything literally as stated in the diary. I'm going to post under this a recount of our last talk. This I need help with!

We just had another talk. She had called my BF to tell him she took his advice and talked to me. She asked how I knew about her other life. He said he told. She said she was glad it was all out. Then my BF told her that it wasn’t everything and she will need to fill in the rest. She was crying and hugging me and telling me how much she loved me. I didn’t quite know what to expect. I told her I love her and I’m here for her.

She said this goes back to when she was in Puerto Rico and she was with Paco (not real name). She told me about the drugs and how he would abuse her physically and mentally. That she posed as a nude model for adult magazines and film. But this I didn’t know and it was the reason she eventually called my BF who had been her boyfriend for help. She realized at a lucid moment, which she sad there weren’t many, she had sunk to the lowest point in her life and was drowning in drugs and physical abuse, and needed help; she felt as if she were dying. Paco kept her supplied with drugs. His business was supplying entertainment for visiting tourists. She said one party she was at was for a fraternity from a collage in Georgia, she thinks. There was a room filled with these young guys and she was the party. She said she was their tramp, slut, etc., to be used anyway they wanted. She said that after one party she had to go to the hospital to have burns and cuts in her body taken care of. This wasn’t the only party she attended. I’ve cleaned up how she described these “festivities.” I was crying with her as she told me the details. If you have ever been to sights on the internet that show women being physically abused, used in demining ways by multiple individuals, sadism/masochism slavery sights, that might be my wife. Paco had her taking care of multiple men at once. I’m sure you get the picture. My BF saved her life by his intervention. She went to a rehap hospital and received therapy and counseling for a number of years. She was seeing a doctor while I was dating her and I didn’t know it. She told me that over the last 10 years she has occasionally seen a therapist so there would be no regression, I thought it was a regular doctor visit. Knowing all this has crushed me. I don’t know if I can deal with all of this. I spoke with my BF about all of this info which he knew about of course. He told me he loved (don’t mean romantic) my wife, and was there for her, but he couldn’t be her boyfriend. He couldn’t deal with her past, he had asked me if that made him a bad person. I don’t know if I can, there is only so much you can handle?

She said she was glad it was all out

Problem is that it isn't *all* out.

All of the *Paco* stuff nonwithstanding.....the *incident with the guy which brought you here* occurred AFTER that. Yes, what she has described to you is awful and your BF is a *good guy* for getting her though all of that.

BUT.

That doesn't excuse the fact that you WW and your BF have a *past* that they felt you didn't need to know about.

Nor does it account for the fact that your WW was with this guy long after her supposedly *got therapy, I'm good now* phase. The woman had another guy on top of her when you proposed.

And a bit of a plus for her that the diary that you found was in the situation in which she described it....boxed and bagged (just like she said).

please remember I'm writing what I remember from an emotional state

And please remember that the people reading your words are coming from a totally objective place and most likely able to *see* what you are currently unable to see.

I just wan to also note that I respectfully disagree with gonnabe2016. We do NOT come to these threads objectively. Sure we look at what you say, but your words are not completely descriptive. Plus, and most importantly, we project onto your situation our own problems and disappointments - even the failures of our own Ms and Rs.

Stu, having read this whole thread again, I do not think you were betrayed, you were deceived. There is an important distinction there in terms of what needs to be done IMO.

I really like what N&D and YoP had to say. Not talking about adultry here, just stuff from prior to a relationship, or even a job. People have a right to leave a past in their past if they have worked to recover. It should not have to be something that they have to carry with them for the rest of their days. There is redemption in life.

So to me the above post is too judegmental in terms of how your wife should be dealing with a messy and very painful situation. I think the main test foe your M is now that you know in *general* what the past was like, can your wife be an open person with you.

Stu, marriage depends on guys like you. The notion of for better or worse - accepting another human soul - unconditional love in a way that God love each of us.

It is not going to be easy. You have a male ego issue from your childhood. No one would blame you if you gave up. But that would obviously not exemplify the full capacity of the human heart. If you do reject her now, what will that tell her as a human soul about whether she deserves to be loved. It is tough to have this burden Stu to be sure.

*my thoughts are premised on the assumption that she has been faithful to you since the day after the Adonis thing.*

Also want to add that my WW is a doctor, and I can say that I have met a lot of them in my time. I would put them high on the cheater list. For a lot of reasons, but not worth going into. Sad that this guy wanted take advantage of your WW. What a dirt bag. AND I do think his solicitations warrant a phone call to his wife.

I agree with MC_Jack, you really need to let her past go!

The whole Paco thing is really in the past a time you didn't even know her. People make mistakes and she did hers. She seemed to be over it but it had to be brought up again.

The things you need to know is what went on during your relationship with her. Did she cheat? Yes. But it does sound like she is remorseful, her explanation on why she was with the other man explains a lot she thought your relationship was done.

You said she's been a good wife since you've been married can't you both just move forward from all of this?

Now that she said she will go into counseling with you, you should jump on that opportunity and do it. Although, I believe she needs to do counseling on her own about her past to deal with what she has been through. You need to do it on your own to deal with how you were betrayed while you were together.Then seek counseling together to work on your marriage.

Hey man. I am sorry you going through this right now.

You and your W really need counseling with this as a couple. You both need counseling as individuals.

Your wife feels so much shame and fear. If you tell her one thing today, just tell her this. "Thank you for feeling safe enough with me to share that. I am not going anywhere and I can support you in working through this. I really think we need to see a counselor. They can help us break free our past and build a better future."

Living her life by ignoring it that way is letting the abusers win. It silences the hurt teenager inside her. That girl never got a chance to speak. What happened to her is not her fault and you know that. Her reactions to some of these things have hurt you since, but right now you have to deal with this at the beginning of it. A counselor is going to help you both process this stuff. My guess is that the check ins are more for substance abuse, not the other. MC isn't going to be very effective without her addressing this. The MC could lead there though. Any counselor is better than none. Look for practices that offer counseling for M and abuse.

It isn't going to be easy. I know this doesn't make you feel any better now, but it will later on. Her past is the direct cause of most of the pain in your life. You have to deal with that before you can go about rebuilding your M. Once she heals from that and you work on your M, your life is going to improve in ways you couldn't have imagined. Your W wants to break from her past, counseling is going to help her and by extension, you do that.

At risk of offering any more advice that is going to do more harm that good right right now I am just going to say that you both need a counselor who has experience dealing with abuse survivors and their spouses (infidelity in these situations in somewhat common). There is also a thread in the "I can relate" section that may be a bigger help to you right now for spouses of abuse survivors. I don't post there, but due to my past I read there some times. PM me if you want.

ETA: Be wary of advice offered by those that haven't lived you situation. Just like with infidelity, until you experience it first hand, you really can't understand it.

Also you may think it is good now, but when your children get older and they become involved with our people your W past is going to manifest itself in some pretty confusing and possibility damaging ways. It never goes away, but you learn how to manage it so the past stays in the past.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 11:07 AM, March 14th (Friday)]

I asked her about IC or MC an she said she was afraid where it might lead.

She told me that over the last 10 years she has occasionally seen a therapist so there would be no regression,

Look for consistency in words and actions.

Her past sounds traumatic, and some followup with a professional certainly couldn't hurt, right? You are her husband, not her IC, and now you are feeling traumatized, also.

I don't know how strong I am. Who is or was this woman I'm married to. How could she have sunk so low? I'm trying to be a supportive husband. But after what I have learned about her it's horrible; multiple numbers of guys used her and then pissed in and on her! This is my wife, the women I care about, the women I would die for, it hurts. My eyes are red from the tears.

I just keep thinking of everything she has done or had done to her. I mentally see the pictures of her actions. I have gone to some internet sights to try and figure what makes a women do the shit crap she did. I really never gave porn any thought. How could a person consciously allow others to degrade them the way she described? A horrific account she told me sickened me. Guys tied various parts of her body with rope than played tug of war; things were attached to her body that were extremely painful. I'm torn emotionally, I love my wife, my first urge was I wish I had been there to protect her! She has been a great wife for 10 years. She has not cheated, I asked her. There were times of stress that she thought about doing drugs, but she called her therapist and did not use. She did tell me that she has had a desire at times to be with other men. She did not act on those desires. She said she would through herself at me and lust after me. But the info and images I create make me think that she's a tramp, a slut! My BF and she may have been right to hide this info from me all these years. I keep thinking I married a tramp, whore, slut; she's the mother of my children. What if the find out now or in a few years when they are teenagers. How are they going to cope? What if a friend or someone from their school finds out and posts that info on the internet. Or what if the find copies of her past work and put that on the internet for the world to see? I'm not strong, I'm falling apart. This is no longer a question about infidelity. Am I even at the right site for what I'm going through now? I need to stop writing!

Stu, you deserved to know before you got married. In some cases the past is not just the past.

I do think you will be able to receive some wonderful help here. I also think you need some heavy duty individual counseling before you make any permanent decisions regarding your marriage.

strength

It's horrible to see what happen before you got married and know all the action they did before. Especially since you did nothing like that.

Because of her past actions do you believe you can't be married to her anymore?

It feels like you know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all.

She's changed, you said it yourself! She's not that slut, whore, tramp that she once was.

Do you believe in second chances?

If you run into video or pictures then you'll have to deal with it, you haven't ran into them publicly before. They might not be out anymore. Look up sites how women say they will explain their past to their children when they grow up. Most of them are porn stars and playboy models.

Stuff that happens before they got married isn't cheating because it happened before they got married? What?

She had sex with a guy while they were in a relationship and didn't tell him about it. That's cheating. Come on.

Also, this isn't about punishment. Cheating is about lying, breaking promises, and about the effect it has on the betrayed partner. Past abuse is a mitigating factor, sure, but it doesn't turn cheating into not cheating.

Or am I missing something?

ProbableIceCream Who said she didn't cheat on him?

We are all saying that what she did before she met him was in her past. No one is justifying that she didn't cheat on him, he's discovering more about her than what he thought. We are trying to help him over come her past before they even met.

5454 real and yme3213, “I love the women I married.” You said, “…you know someone whole heartedly and then to find out that you really didn't know them at all.” That’s where I am now.

I grew up in a large city, in a poor neighborhood with drug dealers and prostitutes on the four corners where the bars were located. As a child I got to see things normal people don’t encounter. One of my jobs at the corner bar run by Mr. Valiente was to clean used condoms off the floor of the bathroom. I had firsthand experience with abusive relationships. I might have been 8 or 9, old enough to know some things and what was happening between men and women, too young to fully understand. But I did not like what I saw or the people involved in what was going on, they were scum. It left a very strong negative impression on me, and I literally had to claw my way up the success ladder to get out of that environment. Now I find I’m married to one of those people, “scum.” Yes I am prejudice. I’m troubled when I caller that. I’m not making any rash decisions now or in the future. I need time to think all this out. I am who I am because of my past. She is who she is because of her past.

I want to be the understanding husband. I want to be her support. How many men reading this could stay married once they got this info about their wife?

The discussion about whether she cheated, was deceitful, was a manipulate isn’t important. She was sleeping with scum when I proposed to her. She has apologized for that. Whatever was going through her head at the time was illogical and perverted. That all happened 10 years ago and probably with counseling I could work to except what happened, or not. How do you reconcile in your head your wife performing sex acts with large numbers of men, being someone’s sex slave, being a whore?

I’m confused, I’ve been down so long it’s beginning to like up. I don’t know what to do?

stu, ive found out some pretty serious stuff about my wife. things she did WHILE we were married. im still with her. read my profile.

im not saying this stuff isnt serious. it is.

the bit with adonis and you on the phone is especially distressing to read.

however, in 10 years shes been a good wife. shes trying to change. she wants to be a better person. she HAS been a better person. she has changed.

its tough. i know. but the big thing is ... shes the woman you married 10 years ago. nothing changed. the main thing that changed is what she did BEFORE you met her.

id think she needs counseling and help. i hope you can help her as well. shes done a huge thing telling you. take that and use that to make your relationship stronger.

I just popped in and saw this thread, and I'm really surprised by the responses.

His wife is flying so many red flags I'm surprised she doesn't fly away.

First, she allows Stu to propose to her while in the bed with another man.

Next, when confronted about this she basically tells Stu to "get over it".

She had a relationship with his best friend before him and never told him.

She seeks therapy and doesn't mention it.

She keeps affair mementos in their home.

She has a whole life full of nude modeling and such before him that she never mentions.

This all looks like the epitome of "having a secret" life to me. How can she and Stu have true intimacy when he really doesn't know her at all? He only knows what she "allows" him to know.

Isn't that wayward thinking and behavior? Isn't that dishonest?

And I'm sorry, but someone who is able to get a marriage proposal while in bed with another, AND keep secret that she dated her husband's best friend (who he sees often) for a decade, I just have a real hard time believing has been a model wife for the whole marriage. That kind of disordered wayward thinking just doesn't "turn off" on your wedding day. I'm afraid that if Stu keeps digging he find more and more and more, not all of it even related to cheating...just more "secret life" stuff. That's why she was scared of MC, she has secrets.

I'm sorry Stu.