SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Again, why did it stop there? There really hasn't been further contact? Over 10 years? Again, I wave the Bull Excrement flag.

Stu - I am sorry you have learned more lies. Read what 5454 asked as what you are still being told does not make sense now.

In my case, my WW cheated on me from day one when we dated and into our earlier marriage. On DDay the confession I got was it was a "long time ago". After digging for the truth, it turns out it went on for years and years until OM1 finally moved 2 years prior to DDay. The EA portion with OM1 continued though after he moved until DDay. After OM1 moved though, an OM2 entered the picture.

My point of telling you my story is that it is rare that a cheater just goes dry on their own. Especially when cheating started at the very beginning. If your WW was willing to cheat early before you were married and right after you were married why would she suddenly stop? If it wasn't the guy you know now, it very likely could be someone else that came into the picture.

I am sorry you are still unraveling your truth, I had thought many pages ago that you were there but with your new information to the level of cheating your WW committed I am concerned that you are not close to any form of complete truth from her. Working on you is all that you can do at this point given your WW's unwillingness to give you the truth.

I had thought many pages ago that you were there

^^^me too. I also thought you were there and my thoughts were based on the absence of cheating after the engagement. Well - I don't know what to say now, except that I am very sorry for you.

At this point getting to the whole truth - get a polygraph if necessary - is the prime directive. Until you get to the truth you have nothing.

Jack

I have returned home for now. I told my wife that for the emotional health of our children I would like us to be civil to each other and coexist without animosity. I also told her I want the truth regarding things she has told me, no more lies. We will live in the same house and carry on our daily activities as much as normal; driving our children here and there. I have work which will keep me away for a good portion of the day. Sleeping arrangements haven’t been worked out yet. For tonight I’m going to fall asleep in the TV room, no difference then before.

Please, if you have any suggestions, give them, I will not be sleeping with my wife. We do have an extra bedroom I might use. But I’m worried about my children. What might I be saying to them? Surprisingly I feel calm and in control at the moment, tonight the anger and animosity seems gone,I'm ok. I don't know about tomorrow?

Stu,

Sorry. The pain is horrific. You will get through this.

You have gotten excellent advice. Focus on you. Therapy, exercise, make sure you eat and stay hydrated.

I am afraid that ReunitePangea is probably right:

"My point of telling you my story is that it is rare that a cheater just goes dry on their own. Especially when cheating started at the very beginning. If your WW was willing to cheat early before you were married and right after you were married why would she suddenly stop? If it wasn't the guy you know now, it very likely could be someone else that came into the picture."

And if it is the truth you seek, this will probably need explored.

Stay strong brother. You are handling it well even if it feels that you are not.

[This message edited by quedagh at 8:20 AM, March 18th (Tuesday)]

Stu, sleep in the other room if it is more comfortable. You need your sleep. Just use snoring as an excuse.

other suggestion, tell OMs wife yesterday - since the guy just propositioned your WW - and obviously has not changed. I told the other BW about 8 months after dday when OM broke NC yet again, so there was obviously no sleeping dog to let lie.

how far do you now think that this rabbit hole will go?

Wow.

I have just read this entire thread. My head is spinning, stu, so I can only imagine how you must feel.

I think you need to value yourself more. You are a good man, a good husband, a good father, and a good friend. You have been lied to..for years..by your wife and your best friend. And you continue to say he is your best friend. A friend would never have allowed you to blindly get involved, marry, have children with, someone as disturbed as your WW is, without telling you. A friend tells you the truth, no matter how much it may hurt. With a friend like that..who needs enemies?

Betrayal isn't always about fucking someone else. It's lying. And boy has she been lying to you.

I don't believe for a second that she has been a great wife and mother for the last 10 years. If everything she has told you is true, a tiger doesn't change it's stripes overnight. She is still wayward. Her lying is proof of that. And that she went from porn star to Mrs. Brady as soon as you put a ring on her finger? I find that hard to believe. She has continued to lie about so much...how can you be so sure she hasn't cheated since you married her? The truth is, you can't.

I would usually suggest a polygraph, but I think there is so much bullshit in what she has lied to you about that the polygraph would be useless.

Im glad you are going to IC. I hope it helps you.

I have noticed a change in my wife’s behavior; she seems less defensive and openly wants to talk about the issues. I told her I’m not interested if there will be more lies and deceit and we can talk later today. I also told her that I have options and I would be discussing them with the psychologist. This change in her seems to coincide with my telling her about my IC.

Have you seen an attorney? I know you don't intend to file, but it might be a good idea to find out what your rights are.

Also, I think I read that your BF is married? If so, then I hope someone has seen fit to tell his wife about his past with your wife. His wife deserves to know the truth too.

Stu,

I gave you a reference to something called the 180. Implement it. It's specifically designed to give you some breathing room. Ditto to what Confused said. Lawyer to at least know your options.

Also, as well as the W of your *BF*, *Adonis's* BW deserves to know.

If you so choose, give your WW(Confirmed) the task of writing out a timeline. Who, what where and when. Make sure she knows that this is a one shot deal.

Sending strength brother

I told her I’m not interested if there will be more lies and deceit and we can talk later today.

Good reply!

Stu - I think do to some of the twists and turns in your story you have not received some of the typical initial advice that is given to a new BS just finding out.

If your WW wants to work with you on R, she can start demonstrating this to you now. She can hand over her cell phone so you have access to it, she can give you passwords to her email accounts. Transparency is what you need and how she can demonstrate to you that the lies stop now.

Stu,

Just putting in my thoughts here...

I have a real problem with the fact that your BF knew of her past and didn't have the decency to tell you in advance of you proposing to her. I know you are now questioning that friendship. I can't help but think that he used you, a good man and a good friend, as some kind of savior for another friend he cares about. Your friend has some serious explaining to do on this. You may never know if you still would have proposed to her or not given her history at that time, but then that opportunity to analyze that decision was removed by them both.

Perhaps he needs to write a timeline as well about his time with your wife as well as NC with your wife. Enough with the talking between them AT ALL. Both of them have already demonstrated deceit on you. They both need to do a timeline and have just one shot at this. Full transparency is required to enforce NC.

I would contact the POS's BW as well. How and when you do this is up to you or even at all. For me, I would show her the excerpts of that diary to show her the mentality of the man she married, as well as evidence (if any) of the continued recent contact he attempted with your wife. That pretend-Alpha needs to go down hard and pay for his part in your shit sandwhich, and I imagine he'll paying through the nose in his own D. Like I said, that's just me. We all approach this in our own way.

Speaking of "Alpha" types, you think this pretend-Alpha is any Alpha material at all then I bet he would cut and run like a scared hyena if he were in your shoes and given the weight of your situation. You, in contrast, have not cut and run. You are facing this monumental challenge in your life LIKE A REAL MAN.

The 180 is a good idea while you get therapy. You really need to start your healing. Do this for you and your children. At least one of you needs to be a strong parent for them in this struggle. You've already demonstrated your self to be a stable and good person in your 10 yr marriage. Your wife may have been a good mother in that time as well, but now that role may be affected as you seek therapy and begin your healing.

Man, my heart really goes out for you.

I wish you the best seeing your IC today, hopefully they can guide you in a good direction. I love how you told her that you didn't want to talk to her if she was going to continue on lying and deceiving you.

You need to get into the bottom of this and find out the WHOLE truth, it's going to be eating you up inside.

Hi,

Just read the whole thread - you are being strong - good work.

Unfortunately, it appears your WW has proven things are much worse than originally admitted to, and I cannot help but suspect there is still worse yet to come.

That said I suggest the following:

Assume her affair with "Adonis" went much longer, as in, into your married life - likely far into your married life possibly till DDay.

My gut tells me (based on your posts) that her periodic 'doctor' visits were possibly to see AP - unless she can provide proof that she is truthful through insurance claims / receipts etc..

I would heed advice from others to get a polygraph, but unfortunately also I recommend you get a DNA test of your children; here is why:

WW still seem to have had contact with him given he was there at the company dinner, why was he at her company dinner? Does he work in same company / institution? - sounds like she has had the means to be in contact with him the whole time.

-WW admitted she liked being dominated by this guy, and she had no problem allowing him to deface her diary and KEPT IT intact (together with belittling remarks about you).

she could have got rid of those pages and rewritten them.

AP (Adonis) belittled and disrespected you massively and even then after you had proposed and she accepted, she continued a longer term affair which could have been stopped after the first time.

Assuming he worst case scenario (which you should consider until proven otherwise) is that she has had periodic sex with him ever since, He liked to get off on cuckolding you, and if that stroked his ego, then it would be a massive ego boost to insist to her that she get pregnant by him and pretend the children were yours.

She could possibly go along with it because she like being submissive to him (as she herself said).

IMO Paternity fraud is possibly the worst thing a person can do - but it happens.

If you were to inform her of your intention to make sure your children are genetically yours, then her reaction may tell you a lot, but get the testing done regardless as it would be another avenue of proving her fidelity during marriage. Or at least that she had your children. - and not his.

If she gives a bad reaction to a DNA test, that would be a RED FLAG, and be cause for making it a priority.

If she has nothing to be worried about then she should not be concerned about a DNA test...

Main thing is to cover your butt and definitely consult a lawyer to know where you stand.

I wish you the best and hope these suspicions are wrong - I really do.

Good luck.

PR

Stu,

I know that the post above is a bombshell that you may never have contemplated, but with all the new revelations, you need to explore this.

I'm sorry. That may be the worst part of all of this---just the POSSIBILITY that the children are not yours. If you already know otherwise, with certainty, that they are definitely yours, then take a breath of relief. But if you are not certain....

Be careful not to shut your wife down. Your reply to her was great, but it is important to keep her talking. The more information that she gives, the more that you will eventually be able to decipher if she is coming clean....or not.

Try to hold on to that calmness that you currently possess. It will come and go, with absolute certainty, but use it to your full advantage while you possess it. You can see things clearer in this state of mind. You can make better decisions with this mindset. It can help you detach some more---for your own protection.

Stu,

How was your visit with the IC? Did they help much, too bad an hour isn't enough to get everything situated.

My wife and I had a long unemotional talk this morning at a neutral location. I called my church and asked if I could use a conference room, they said yes. I knew that in this location voices (both) would be kept in check and soft; they were. My wife in a sort of calm manner told me details that she thinks went on in her and our life. I thought I would be an emotional wreck; I wasn’t. I listened with some degree of emotional detachment. After the things I found out which were allegedly true, how much worse could it have gotten? I have been telling myself it’s not my fault and I’m in control. I may be deluding myself, but it seems to be working. I’m not going to be one of those people that get walked all over, or cower in a corner; I’ve always faced problems directly and dealt with them. After reading many posts from you (friends) and the other stories at this site I believe I’m OK. There are others with far worse trauma to them and their families than mine. I’m not minimizing my emotional stress at all, it’s there. I know that in 5 years all of this aggravation won’t mean a thing. I will have accepted my wife for whom and what she is, or I will have moved on. Tomorrow is IC day.

We were at the church and talked for a long time, it seemed like hours. It’s not possible to state everything we talked about. She said that for years she had been and was a drug user; it started in college. That there had been times she was so “out of it” (her words) she couldn’t remember things; that’s why she dropped out of college. She had posed for nude pics and was a nude model in art classes at school; she did have her pictures on exhibit at art events. It was in that art class she met my BF. She believed they lived together for almost a year. He was the one who introduced her to drugs; it started out with occasional use of marijuana and other drugs that made her feel good; their usage was recreational and usually on the weekend. She wasn’t content with the occasional usage and started using daily. She said she took a cocktail of drugs (I have no Idea what that is.) in order to feel good. She said she didn’t have money to buy her drugs so she started sleeping around with guys who would share their stuff with her when she was with them. She eventually became pregnant. She said she didn’t know who the father was, there were just too many men; she doesn’t know. My BF told her that she needed help, being pregnant, a drug addict; he wanted to see that she got help that he was sorry he introduced her to drugs and it got out of control with her. She told him she didn’t need his help, she was fine, and left him. When she said all that to him he didn’t take it well. She said he loved her and really was sorry for what happened to her.

She said that after she left my BF, she went to NYC and lived in a battered women’s’ shelter, abortion was out of the question, too much time had passed. She added that she always thought he had been the father. The baby was given up for adoption immediately. She said she wasn’t on drugs while at the shelter. They had procedures to deal with her drug use and pregnancy. After the baby was born she got a job as a stock clerk in a grocery store and was back on drugs and started sleeping around for money and or drugs. She said she didn’t remember much, every day was just the same. She isn’t sure how she got to Puerto Rico; she thinks she went there for a vacation with some girlfriends. While there she met some guy when she was trying to buy pot. They hooked up and she lived with him. While she was working for him he supplied her with drugs. Most of this time is a blank. She does remember being physically abused during this time and having to go to the emergency center for burns and cuts. What she does remember is her women friends (women she worked with) telling her the stuff she did; other than that is blank (She still may be keeping things from me. When you’re taking drugs can you lose your memory? I thought only alcoholics had black outs.) She had twins and did call my BF for help. She remembered him offering to help her, that’s why she called him. I thought someone here had said twins were delivered by cesarean section, I asked her; she said it was regular delivery, said the babies weight was low but they were ok. Before she and BF left PR a friend told her that she thought her boyfriend (hospital thought he was her husband) had taken the babies and given them to a couple; sold them. (Whatever the truth is, I don’t know.)

She only remembers some things that happened to her in PR. I asked what drugs she used. She said whatever she could get and named these; heroin, meth, ecstasy, valium, roofies, she named others. (I don’t know anything about these drugs or any drug. What do they do to a person taking them? Is it possible to lose your memory?) I asked her why her doctors never said anything to me about her previous child births and drug usage; she said she told them not to. Some of you stated I should have seen things about her body that would have told me about pregnancies or her past. She was in good shape when I met her and what did I know about the female body; she looked ok to me.

She did go through rehab. It was at this time she reconnected with my BF since he helped her and was part of her support structure. It was after she was released from the facility that she and my BF got back together for a while with a physical relationship. This ended agreeably for both. My BF told her to get in touch if she needed too. She returned to community college. She was working as a computer tec. when I met her. She was off drugs by that time, but she was using pot, I didn’t know that. As our relationship grew and she found out that my BF and I knew each other she told my BF not to say anything about her past and their relationship. Everything related to the Adonis guy was true. She was physically with him when I proposed, and slept with him many times after we were engaged. Their relationship lasted up until a month before we were married, she thinks; not sure. I asked why? She liked his domineering control, his physical power over her; she wanted to please him. Her details did get me sick at this point.

I think Adonis went back to school, I’m not sure now. After Adonis left she contacted my BF; she said she needed his help and support, she felt guilty. She also told him she didn’t want me to know anything, it was to be a secret. A few months after we were married she felt like she wanted to get back on drugs to make her feel good, being married was stressful. She called my BF and he would talk her out of using again. They also met to talk and one of these times they connected sexually. This friendship between them lasted about a year until his wife found out. No one said a thing. I asked if my children were mine, she said yes they are. She said she wasn’t with anyone during the time they were conceived. (After all these years does it matter, they are my kids! I wouldn’t love them any less if they weren’t.))

She did tell me she and my BF did reconnect a few times over the years. She also said she connected with a few of my children’s fathers. She said she was still using pot. She got it from the fathers she slept with or bought it. (Old habits just don’t die!) I asked her if she ever reconnected with the Adonis guy. She said yes, it was a few months before our 5th anniversary. She had gone to a facility for an MRI and he happened to be working there (This place was connected to the hospital he worked at.). He acted as if time had stood still and reminisced about their time together, she said he was flirting with her. They got physical in a room at the hospital and she saw him a few times after that. She called my BF to talk to him. The Adonis guy had given her some drug to use and she was having second thoughts. My BF got her back to someone to help her. She has been seeing this doctor for the last five years. She said she has only been with me and no one else all this time. She said she loves me and wishes her past never happened and she is sorry.

After listening to what my wife has just told me I need to apologize to you all. Your perception that her story might be bogus was right on. Phantom Limb said that “you all take time out of your lives’ to help…and this is a sacred place.”, it is. What I wrote originally was not completely true; I believed what my wife had said. I believe she was a desperate woman creating something she thought would salvage her reputation as a wife. Do I believe what she just told me, I’m not sure? Having been lied to already, I’ll show this th the psychologist tomorrow. I decided to write this all out so I could bring it with me tomorrow as well as the other posts.

You are a good man, Stu.

That is one hell of an avalanche.

You will get through this.

I need to clear up this typing error:

She also said she connected with a few of my children’s friends fathers. She said she was still using pot. She got it from the fathers she slept with or bought it. (

Wow.

The levels of betrayal here is just astonishing.

Wow.

After listening to what my wife has just told me I need to apologize to you all. Your perception that her story might be bogus was right on.

What I wrote originally was not completely true; I believed what my wife had said.

No apology needed. You were/are in shock. You believed what she said and recounted it to us as accurately as you could. No apology needed for that. Perceptions, well, when you're in the trees, it's kind of hard to see the forest. We are removed from your situation and can actually see the whole forest.

Phantom Limb said that “you all take time out of your lives’ to help…and this is a sacred place.”, it is.

Yep, it sure is.

A couple of things stuck out yet again.

Primarily, your *BF*. I don't think he knows the meaning of the word. I would be extremely curious to know(and no, don't ask him. Did he set you up with her to keep her around? I mean seriously, what were you to him? There is a forum in I Can Relate called Double Betrayals that specifically address this issue. He is no friend of the marriage, and no friend to you. He is toxic. You(and she) will need to completely eliminate him from your lives for any hope of reconciliation if that is your choice.

I believe I’m OK.

Hang on, It's a wild ride that just left the gate.

I know that in 5 years all of this aggravation won’t mean a thing. I will have accepted my wife for whom and what she is, or I will have moved on.

Stu, gently, this^^^^is not an accurate statement. Every ones healing is at a different pace, in 5 years, you may have reconciled or consider yourself healed by moving on, but it will always mean something. That's a lesson your WW failed to learn. There's a famous quote out there that goes something like *Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it*.

She did tell me she and my BF did reconnect a few times over the years. She also said she connected with a few of my children’s fathers.

She also said she connected with a few of my children’s friends fathers. She said she was still using pot. She got it from the fathers she slept with or bought it. (

The timeframe here is tough to swallow. How old are your kids? When did they start having friends? She's been faithful how many years?

Oops, sorry. I got caught up in the story. I'm sure you did too. Right now, her story doesn't matter that much. Let's work on you.

Do I believe what she just told me, I’m not sure? Having been lied to already, I’ll show this th the psychologist tomorrow. I decided to write this all out so I could bring it with me tomorrow as well as the other posts.

Good for you. Make sure your psychologist keeps the focus on YOUR recovery. He should use the posts as background only and work on you.

Strength