SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi All,

So updates --

- > 6 months since admitting to the affair now
- I confronted her on being this long, and still barely any progress
- Caused her to start new IC (face to face) who WS is resonating with [already had 2 sessions within 2 weeks]
- new IC has suggested she has ADHD
- new IC called her out for avoiding everything (Dad's death, cause of the affair etc)
- Has started to read more, also taking more time for mindfulness to review & address
- Still hasn't worked out the Whys?
- Admitted that Poly/Open wasn't even a thought til talking to previous IC [but got obsessed]
- Admitted still has some feelings for AP, but reducing {still hasn't addressed this whole Poly crap yet}
- Is acknowledging more the hurt and feelings - but also sometimes avoiding cause hurt and sadness in my eyes
- Is acknowledging my patience, and trying to make commitments to work on herself and us, and seeing a future with us
- Kind of freaked out when I pointed out the timeline to her (which I worked out) and her realising how fast everything happend
- Actions still sometimes need to be pushed {but is more expressive with physical touch and saying I love you etc}
- As we are not openly fighting etc kids still seem unaware of anything happening

Myself...
- Anger comes and goes - its more about how long its taken to get here than the Affair itself now
- I don't know my feelings for her atm, the thought of loosing her still makes me burst into tears, when she writes
nice messages etc, I cry but other times I am just like 'meh'
- I have def caught myself looking at other women more / fantasizing more - but def not within intimate moments with WS
- I am... okay I think with the either outcome - knowing if it does end then I did my best and something else might exist?

Current next steps and actions
- Because this was taking so long and over my original timeline AND also her IC suggesting she needs to make even more space to ensure she gives this the proper time and focus - we have agreed on a temporary living apart arrangement (at her moms)
- I was suggesting a month she was suggesting 2 weeks
- We talked about it being at start of Jan (school holiday period etc - and post XMAS and a birthday)
- Also mid feb is when they first made contact, and then overlap of affair period and I kind of want movement before then
- However still hasn't worked out the details / suggestions / goals from her side
- Kind of gone with perhaps no comms outside of comms about kids etc, ensuring she has some communication with them
- WS setting up a

Aims?
I think my aims / wants are
- Her trying to work out the why?
- Her either fully committing to this concept of some relationship with AP [dealbreaker] or that it was just fantasy / dopamine issue and influence
(even though its now longer since the affair, then it was happening)
- her committing to further IC and ready for MC
- What does actually being remorseful / working on it / winning me back look like

So looking for advice and thoughts from all of you, especially where this time apart has worked on goals, and what I should be looking for from WS / like what worked for you? Making sure I don't have to crazy expectations

We were on the brink of D after my husband’s mid life crisis affair 11 years ago.

After months of him telling me he wanted a D, on dday2 (because dday1 isn’t enough) when I found I thought we were Reconciling and he was still cheating, I’d had enough.

I told him I had no choice but to D. I had a plan in place and from that moment i did the hard 180.

But he begged me to R. My response was "you can do whatever you want but I am not going to help you R". I demanded a post nup to even consider reconciliation (which he willingly signed).

Of his own accord, my H did the following:

Read everything he could get his hands on
Took his phone and showed me every opportunity/ platform he blocked the OW
Became accountable for his time and location (his doing not mine)
Talked about the affair whenever I wanted
Took full responsibility for his actions
Made sure I knew I was his priority (and still does to this day)
Apologized for years
Went to counseling (again his decision not mine)
More open and talkative about himself and feelings

11 years later and he still is here doing all of these things. He’s never late. He doesn’t give me any reason to be concerned about what he’s doing.

Hope this helps you.

Everything you're saying sounds familiar...the anger, the sadness over the loss, the "meh", the observing other women.

Time apart, 3 weeks while he was with him family overseas, actually helped us a bit. Things were so intense that first year, having some space to just reflect in our own spaces was beneficial. And, like it or not, the W needs support too. Being with his family, while they condemned the A, provided him some space to be around friends and family who would love him no matter what even if we divorced. He needed that. The guilt and shame he carried was heavy. He deserved to carry it, but it was heavy. And, watching the effect his decisions made on me, our son, and our marriage....was equally as hard as what I was going through. It took time for me to realize that.

Like the other poster, my FWH did all the things - read everything, organized IC and MC, and did everything he could to help me heal....although, eventually healing was something that only I could do for myself.

Please take care of yourself. Healing yourself from this will take longer than anyone would like. Healing your marriage, is a separate issue altogether. I never committed to staying or going. I committed to working on it, but only if he drove that bus. I was not going to be in charge of making those counseling appointments or dates. It needed all my strength to get through the day. If he hadn't honored that, I don't think our marriage would have survived. I, too, asked for and received a signed post-nup. I wanted those issues off the table so that we didn't have to think about them and we could focus on whatever "working on it" looked like. There was no new affair behavior, and he did do all the things, but he wasn't perfect. Neither of us were.

It is a marathon, not a sprint. AND, infuriatingly non-linear. My best advice, focus on you, take care of you and your kids.

We're still here. It's almost 6 years. Our marriage isn't perfect, but it is so much better than it was.

Are you a project manager at work? If so, R is not a type of project that can be managed. It's a new life, a new way of being - raising issues as soon as they're recognized and resolving them in ways that satisfy both of you. There's no end date, though, and the deliverables change over time.

A lot of people emphasize finding out the whys, but IMO that assumes that knowing the whys in and of itself is sufficient to lead to changes. That's a bad assumption. Lots of people know why they have adopted a dysfunction without being able to change.

Habits are thought to be supported by pathways in the brain. That means people can change to be functional without knowing why they were dysfunctional. So I recommend that you change your wants to something like 'change from cheater to good partner'.

In general, I believe separations are detrimental to R. In your case, though, it may be just what your W needs to figure out whether she wants you for you or not.

IC & MC are good ideas, if she finds a good IC and you both find a good MC, but again, my reco is to focus on change, not the process. Counseling that doesn't lead to change is wasted time and money.

*****

You write, 'barely any progress.' What progress are you looking for? How do you know you'll recognize it is or is not happening?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:57 PM, Friday, December 20th]

A lot of people emphasize finding out the whys, but IMO that assumes that knowing the whys in and of itself is sufficient to lead to changes. That's a bad assumption. Lots of people know why they have adopted a dysfunction without being able to change.

I think the why for me is more about her knowing her why

- We were in a good spot in our marriage
- We were very affectionate and intimate during that time
- We were going through some real life issues (her dad being ill, the kids not wanting her so much)
- WS has always condone cheating like anything, its like MASSIVE with her, she even admits she doesn't know how
- I was massively blaming the AP (who is married with kid etc) - but she made multiple choices to accept and continue
- When I showed her the timeline I had put together she was so shaken on how it all happened

So yes, the why for me would be nice.. but the why for her, to understand what is it in herself that she needs to work on is more important - cause was our marriage perfect? no... but it was good and strong and supportive and financially stable etc.. and she herself calls out that there was nothing wrong there...

You write, 'barely any progress.' What progress are you looking for? How do you know you'll recognize it is or is not happening?

Ownership and accountability - it was only after I was basically walking out that WS went for IC, WS didn't follow-up with doing any of the reading or any reflection (with the first IC) - was asked to do a Pro/Cons list to help her work through this whole what did you want, what marriage this request to have both relationships still etc - so basically just kept dragging heels and whilst saying sorry and how much WS loves me - not doing any action behind it.

Which has lead us to this position where she needs to be forced into a situation where she can self-reflect and see how much she has to loose.

This weekend has been hard.

- I have been thinking about this no contact / several weeks apart thing a lot... and it made me sad to realise that the day we are planning on the no contact is 5,998 days since we first started talking - and we have never missed a day since then. Every single day we have spoken, prior to this situation I would say we have only gone like 20 odd days perhaps where we haven't even SEEN each other.

- Kids are starting to express more frustration with her, her already being away so much as it is, commenting on her not being here this year at all. And they don't know yet about this plan of her moving out for most of Jan.

- Still waiting for her to tell me what the structure and plan is for this move apart - but its obviously more obsessed with XMAS, and my eldest kids birthday (xmas baby).

- This will be the first year without her dad and thus the family xmas is going to be a mess

I am not doing well - I am bursting into tears like every couple of hours - the kids where crying with me yesterday cause I was crying and they could see me so upset - but they dont know why.

I keep thinking that this is perhaps the last xmas of us as a family together - last time we have a family birthday together - a last time for all these things.

And yes I know I can't project manage this, and I know that it really comes down to what I will want and accept - but I am struggling to hard with it all to think about how do we make sure this space works - how do I come out of this with clarity around if I think change can actually happen - if I can keep sticking it out for R - or if its still just Talk and no action, or barely any action - and I can't keep action moving at this glacial pace, its ripping me apart.

We are still saying nice things to each other, we are still trying - and I dont know if I am just expecting more -

I mean.. ffs... I am like... how about even some flowers or something (I dont know why... I am obssessed with that atm.. maybe just cause its at least some symbol beyond the words I am so sorry I hurt you)

Sorry for the ramblings - but I am so trapped here right now - essentially being a single dad, trying to have a very full on full time job- and have two tween kids on holidays till the end of Jan with me.. with what feels like no support around me, no friends who would be able to relate or do anything about this - and thank you to all of you - cause I don't know how I would at least surviving with out least here to talk about, or read about and not feel so alone

Please don’t apologise for rambling. What you are writing might chime with and help someone else anyway.

Having an affair around a parental death (heralding intimations of one’s own mortality) is so common there’s even a term for it, not that I can remember what it is. It sounds like there is good insights happening at IC for her. If she is ADHD, then hopefully she can learn to regulate her emotions in other ways than the escapism of an A. There’s no quick fix though.

I’m troubled that you’ve been left carrying all the household responsibilities as a single working dad and that it’s over Christmas. If her A was partly escaping the responsibilities of family life, then this doesn’t seem to be the answer. If on the other hand she’s a major trigger for you and the space is welcome then the living apart might be helpful (I worked abroad for a few weeks after Dday and it was helpful, but you’re 6 mths out) - but it feels quite injurious to you all. If the A was self centred (and it was), then acceding to the IC’s suggestion of even more time and space seems to perpetuate that - it’s not all about her. But I hear also YOUR focus on her… how about doing some things for yourself to take your mind of her and it all. Fresh air, exercise, seeing friends, flow activities … all are good antidotes to rumination and low mood, especially as you are nearing your antiversary. You WILL survive this, don’t listen to any mind chatter telling you otherwise. Your crying is probably grief for loss of what was and is healthy and healing, but rumination is unhealthy. Try to give yourself little things to look forward to, and be mindful of good things in your life too.

[This message edited by Edie at 1:07 PM, Monday, December 23rd]

Personally like most things I don't think she has really thought this through - like I knew she could be like this - but obviously now I don't have the patience for it - and yep def feels like ADHD traits with her being distracted with smaller unimportant things.

Asked her today some of those questions around whats the plan

- Did express when she should look after the kids, but then reminded her she will be in city for work and no option to take them in
- Did express trading some time, that i could go to my sisters, and she stay here looking after kids
- Said she still really doesnt fully comprehend the magnitude of loosing me and the kids
- Doesn't know really what the goals are for this space
- Told her my expectation is that going forward she is more in charge of the healing process instead of myself all the time
- Told her its my decision when she comes to me at the end of this space on if I will accept it or not - and if not then we will look at separation (this threw her again)
- Did tell me off for crying all the time, especially in front of the kids
- Shes fearful of asking me for her mindfulness time, even though I keep telling her if its for working on this and mindfulness its fine, its when she is doing other **** i get upset

Anyways - will see how she structures this plan, with the view of it starting on 4th of Jan.. wish me luck

Also is there any other suggestions / ideas on what the goals / timeframe etc need to be

I will take my own choices out of things, but I have always been a person who listens to others, their perspectives etc, and then make my own calls on what resonates / works for me

Having to share this cause my mind is like wow you really don't think things thru.

Went out with kids to a Monopoly themed thing. They had a fake mugshot area with like silly reasons. But also traditional photo booth speech bubble things.. WS as normal wants to take lots of photos including herself and makes me take photos of her holding a speech bubble sign going

'I got caught'.... and I am like... yeah you did... and obviously is oblivious to my inner dialogue... but now I have a photo of her against a mugshot wall... wearing prison black n white stripes... saying I got caught.... and I am like if I was a complete ahole what a perfect picture to announce **** with...

But also just showed the difference between us ... everything for me is still seen thru the lens of the affair where for her its not

^ sometimes things are just…. Surreal.

Personally, I’d save that pic for a fb post if you do decide to D. What a way to announce it.

Those kinds of events really hit the irony button hard. My XWS would STILL make comments about cheaters— even as we were in false R. The mental gymnastics they use to compartmentalize so much are hard to fathom.

Hang in there.

Wow, this would be so aggravating.

Frontier, I am in a similar situation. I am 12 months out and have less progress than you. My WW is so lost in midlife crisis that she can’t see realities around her. We have 3 kids (17,14,11) and I have gotten to a similar point as you on feelings…
"the thought of loosing her still makes me burst into tears, when she writes
nice messages etc, I cry but other times I am just like 'meh'
- I have def caught myself looking at other women more / fantasizing more - but def not within intimate moments with WS
- I am... okay I think with the either outcome - knowing if it does end then I did my best and something else might exist?"

I applaud your step to take space. I think I am in a similar situation with my kids not really knowing what is going on and I have been trying to shield them. I am realizing that is not really doing anything but hurting me. I am at the point of taking more consequencial steps and your posts is helping me. Just know that there is another person out there going through a similar situation who is supportive.

I applaud your step to take space. I think I am in a similar situation with my kids not really knowing what is going on and I have been trying to shield them. I am realizing that is not really doing anything but hurting me. I am at the point of taking more consequencial steps and your posts is helping me. Just know that there is another person out there going through a similar situation who is supportive.

I will say the same to you, hang in there and it sounds likely you are similar to myself where its about trying to support the kids first and foremost. And showing up to be the best role model you can be on any given day (even though we have our moments where we slip)

Will keep all of you updated as the week progresses

It's a crazy week ahead

- Drop kids off to WS mum's house (where she will be living soon) for 1 or 2 nights
- Taking a day trip together just WS and myself
- NYE at family friends place, NYD with another family friend
- Saturday spreading my grandfathers ashes
- Sunday the move out begins

... Yeah its going to be a week and then some...

Q: was thinking of getting us a pair of journals to write in during this period. Our thoughts and feelings and perhaps even things we would want to tell each other about our day or events and we can look at and share some with each other later if we do manage to get somewhat back together.