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I have therapy today and i usually go over what i am going to try to get help on in my head a few days before i see her

Sooo. I took my wh’s phone and looked at texts his sister and he shared before july when i found out MIL hd planned to go with my SILs on vacation during our visit to their city. (We hadnt seen the in laws in 2.5 years)

First, i got dates wrong. I thought our trip was July 31-aug. 9. Wh told SIL it was aug 1- aug 8. Not huge but a mistake in my memory of events.

Mil decided to go with SILs on vacation August 5-11, so our visit would only be cut 4 days short instead of 5.

Sil seemed nice in the texts. She invited "you all" to visit her rental house in the Hamptons when she rented the house, and said it was an open invitation. Asked do u think u can come up soon?

But when we did make plans to visit MIL in her hometown (MIL lives a few hours from the Hamptons, while SIL is in NYC) and tell her and MIL, they decided to take a vacation halfway through our planned visit. The vacation was with SIL 2 and her family- SIL2 has not talked to WH in 2 years. I think she hot upset that we had a small baptism for our youngest and said we should be ashamed for what we did, which I think was not invite MIL. However I had told MIL we were having it in our town, and would bring baby to their town and have a big party to celebrate and meet extended family later. Before that, SIL 2 never contacted us during my pregnancy in 2019, and since 2015 has not really spoken to me. It was a joke between me and WH, wed visit the ILS and I would say Hi, SIL and she would walk away from me. She woukd talk to me to tell me, "Theres nothing here for you to eat" when we would go to her house for family dinners. (Im a life long vegetarian and she would put meat in everything, including the salad)

I used to call my MIL or email when wh was going off the rails. He would have an episode where he would scream and either kick a hole in a door or hide the phones and take our only car (we had 1 car at the beginning of our marriage). They would say what do you want us to do and tell him that We should divorce if we fought so much. But it wasnt a fight, it was a mentally ill person who could function sometimes having an episode. I didnt say it explicitly, but i needed help. I thought they would help him.

I just dont know. Im so confused. Yhey act like Im horrible (they say i attacked… yes, ATTACKED, MIL and pick on her. When i said just be nice to my kids because you arent always, and the i did say you are weak and have no morals for things she has done in the past. I gave very specific examples. I did not yell or curse.

I feel a little crazy, like i have done something wrong but Im not quite sure what it is (in years past… i do know they hate me for calling MIL out two mos ago)

This is narcissistic behavior, right? They arent nice even if they act nice sometimes. If we stay at a hotel and everyone is at the lake house, they invite my Dd to stay over but not my son. They planned a vacation during our planned visit to see them. The last Christmas we attended at their house, everyone exchanged gifts and I sat there and received nothing. We go for family dinner to SIL and I walk in the door and am told, I dont think there is anything you can eat here.

Im not the bad guy right? You all would tell me, right? The whole family is fucked up bc MIL is a narcissist and they cater to her, so they are in her good graces, but we moved away and dont offer her anything (SIL 1 offers money and SIL2 offers services , like her hubby mows MIl lawn and acts as handy man). WH was told by SIL 1 that he needs to send MIL money each month two months after we moved into a home my famiky member bought and let us live in rent free. She said "you were given a house and so you can help mom" MiL has declared bankruptcy 2x, and refuses to budget. After getting 40,000 when her dad died, she turned around and spent it ALL on SIL 2’s wedding the next year.

And when FIL was dying, MIL told hin he couldnt come home from the hospital, that he had to go to hospice, because she couldnt take him dying in her house. It would be too hard on her.

When he was dying SIL 1 was pregnant and had some high risk complications and her doc said dont travel too much- you can make the trip to see your dad one time, but dont go back and forth. MIL said, dont come now (when FIL was still alive) come when he dies, I will need you then. So she didnt see her dying father, she went to the funeral instead to support her mom.

I am not the asshole, right? I called a narcissist on their bad behavior and am getting slammed. But Im not the asshole right?

No, hon, you're not in the wrong. The most dangerous thing about narcissists is that they can seem so pleasant and charming. It's how they rope you in. It's how they gaslight you, because it builds up evidence that they can use to make you and everyone around you think you're the unreasonable one. If they were just plain assholes, the game would be over too quickly.

There's never going to be a way to crack this barrier with WH's family because there are no outsiders to stand up with you. You and your kids are targets. And for the love of God, you need to keep those kids away from them as much as you can, because they'll either be victimized or brainwashed. As bad as it was to see your older DD left out, imagine if they had turned her into one of them.

Gotta,

Of course your not wrong! I dwell on stuff from 25 years ago. I have talked to a few people about this. I also talked to my IC about conversations and what could be said differently. What I was encouraged to do is write it all out and accept I cannot change this. I had to work on valuing myself and letting go of people’s opinions. It wasn’t easy, still I slip. Usually these are things with my deceased Mom or my sister. I have accepted what I believe and what my sister believes is very different. That my sister has a need to be right.

How it relates to you. There is a point where you have to realize your worth is not dependent on your in-laws. I get that your looking for a reason for there behavior. Their behavior could be from just a very very different moral compass then you. Your husband talking badly about you. It could be they are very into being the top women/ woman in your husbands life.

Remember you can’t fix crazy! Which means you cannot fix or change them. Your best solution is to get all the poison out to someone you trust. If you need to dump here that’s cool. You can only change you,! You can teach your children how to react to crazy. I think one of the hardest things to accept is not everyone likes me. Due to low self esteem I tried to change things by pandering, bribing (gifts acts of service). Who knows why? I realized finally my actions made no difference and truly if they don’t like me to bad so sad. It’s okay. It is a specific group of family they leave my child out and are not nice about it. I taught her to disconnect and it was there problem not hers.

I hope in IC, you get closure for your self and realize this is not about you. This is definitely about your in-laws and their poor behavior.

I hope this makes sense to you.

I was lucky my MIL shunned. I now see what I’ve missed.

You are not wrong.

You are trying to make horrible people like you - which won’t happen.

Good news is you can stop the drama at any time.

Ok. Just checking. Seriously I dont get why they dont like me. Im a likable person.

I actually have some reasons it might be. All cone back to their insecurity.

Talked to IC today. She told me the same thing.

I waited years to tell MIL off (i didnt even tell her off… i really stated facts and boundaries) . It is so nice to 1- have told her i thing shes weak and immoral, 2- my SILS have said in not allowed to visit …. Like thats a bad thing!

It feels so good to have cut them out of my life. For years i tried to fit in and be part of the family. I am sad thats not possible, but so glad i dont have to be crapped on

[This message edited by Gottagetthrough at 2:38 AM, Thursday, October 14th]

I think not knowing why they don’t like you is the thing that is crazy making. I think maybe you don’t need to know. Its a fact they aren’t going to change, concentrate on stuff you can.

Gottagetthrough,

It makes me sad for you to read these posts about your in-laws.

My MIL and one SIL are very similar to yours, but maybe we are a bit more polite to each other. I like my other in-laws. One difference I read with you is that you really, really want that big, extended, happy family and holidays and vacations with them. I'm not so vested in that.

I have many siblings and aunts/uncles/cousins of my own without in-laws. I've always thought family was important and tolerate a lot of behavior from family that I wouldn't from others. Since d-day, I've put more boundaries with MIL and SIL. It feels good.

This isn't about you. Really, it's not. They like you as much as you benefit them or go along or emulate them. It's how they deal with everyone.

I can tell you stories about my MIL and SIL that might help you understand. Let's just say that when my spouse, children, and I are living or staying in a place they want to see, they visit us regularly. We also pay for travel and sometimes hotel (when MIL said she didn't like sleeping in same guest room as FIL anymore. She does at home.). If we're not, they don't visit. Conversations and topics are centered around their interests and them. My teenager noticed it and said, "I don't like talking with Grandma. She doesn't listen to anything I care about and talks over me." You are a life-long vegetarian. Maybe you care about animals or the environment. Maybe you just feel it's healthier for you and you feel better. If my MIL/SIL weren't, they would tell you why it's wrong to be a vegetarian. If they're 50 lbs overweight with health issues and you're not, they would tell you that you're lucky because you're skinny. But you're still wrong, and it will catch up with you eventually.

They are nice-enough people to be around for a holiday if you agree and talk about their interests. I don't have any deeper relationship with them. They don't care to know me or my values, and I just make conversation. I have stopped accommodating them.

Oh, and if I lived in Manhattan and had a rental house in the Hamptons, I would see MIL and SIL way, way more often. It's not about how much they like me or want to see me or their son/brother or our children though. I think it's the same for you.

You have been abused and gaslighted for so long its hard for you to understand what is and isn't normal.
Everything you have ever shared about these people is NOT normal.
Let it go. Understand that whatever their issues are they aren't going to change or fix them. It isn't you. It is them and let it go. Stop tying yourself in knots over them. They aren't worth it. Never have been. Never will be.

Oh, and if I lived in Manhattan and had a rental house in the Hamptons, I would see MIL and SIL way, way more often.

I think this is why mil and sil2 put up with sil1.

[This message edited by Gottagetthrough at 1:02 AM, Saturday, October 16th]