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some of this not needing anyone can open me up to being taken advantage of by exactly this kind of SA. Gives them a lot of free time, I guess.

Same Dee. I think I gave my STBX so much free time - I don't demand things of my partners, don't insist on constant togetherness, feel fine about them going out with friends and doing their own thing without me. Plus, I paid for so much because I didn't need help financially and I figured it would help him put together some savings. In hindsight, of course he wanted to be with an independent feminist woman, it gave him all the time and disposable income he needed to indulge in his real love - hookers and porn.

I've been single a lot of my adult life and I genuinely enjoy fixing things on my own. Also, not traditionally hyper feminine - I love nails and dresses and heels and I also like to get on the floor and fix the plumbing. It is weird that these men like feminist, strong women - but I suppose a clingy partner would make leading a double life logistical difficult. They want us busy. They want us successful.

It is weird that these men like feminist, strong women - but I suppose a clingy partner would make leading a double life logistical difficult. They want us busy. They want us successful.

I think you've nailed it.

I think I gave my STBX so much free time - I don't demand things of my partners, don't insist on constant togetherness, feel fine about them going out with friends and doing their own thing without me. Plus, I paid for so much because I didn't need help financially and I figured it would help him put together some savings. In hindsight, of course he wanted to be with an independent feminist woman, it gave him all the time and disposable income he needed to indulge in his real love - hookers and porn.

It's uncanny how similar these situations are. I very well could have written the same. Here I thought I was being the cool wife letting him go out with friends and not being a nag. Oh I couldn't have been more wrong. I gave him all the rope to hang himself and he did. Now he is complaining that he has always been alone in this world and now he really will be alone. OMG AYFKM I have been alone this whole M. Of course it's always about him and how he feels. He doesn't ever stop to think how I feel and how far down the drain I've gone because of him

Sorry am venting I just can't take this anymore

Here I thought I was being the cool wife letting him go out with friends and not being a nag.

Here we were, being mature adults and assuming they were too. Yep, very familiar.

And vent away. If it's any consolation, all this hell of IHS is going to make your escape all the more gorgeous. I had to be IHS for the last couple of months with my XWH and he was walking around as an active crack addict the whole time. I did not kill him, and I'm proud of that. BOY though, I was a walking kettle of rage. Hiding stuff to keep it from being pawned, just exploding at him, feeling so much hatred and disgust at what he had become. I'm pretty sure that if I had cut myself, lava instead of blood would have poured out. When I signed for my new house and got the keys, it was like the clouds had parted and sunlight was bathing the earth.

Wow, Ladies!! We have hit some kind of Support Group Gold, here... Y'all are really helping paint the portrait of a certain kind of Modern Woman who wakes up one day married to a Sex Addict....VERY enlightening, THANKS!!

Day 9 already, Skeeter? Cheers, come on, double-digit days of NC!

FWIW, I just had a doctor's appointment with a smart and empathic family practice doctor, who is a former Navy doc in the Middle East theater. When I told her the latest, and commented "I don't know what to DO..." she told me to tell my SAWH: "See ya!" and made a military salute! I'd reported my serious "blahs" and lack of appetite since February and etc., and it all gets back to my living under a cloud of suspicion, betrayal, and waiting for the next shoe to drop, all the time...she saw right through my issues - being tied up with HIM!

Then she confessed a bit of personal history to me (I'm new at her practice, didn't know this). She was married to an abusive, NPD alcoholic, had to divorce him as he wouldn't accept her son from her first marriage and during her residency to become a PHYSICIAN, pulling 120 hour work weeks, she wasn't able to do her job well or be available for her children, because of having to do it all, with no support from the bum, along with all his drama. She said she had a tough decision to make, but she did it, and hasn't looked back. She is now a single mom/Family Practice Doctor in the age of Covid. A real life Hero, in other words!

I prodded her with "one more personal question, please: after you left him, which way did he go? Up, or down the tubes?" She said "He's basically now an indigent, in his 50's, living with his parents...he went wayyyy down..." I hated to hear that, for HER sake. But she said "Yes, it's sad, but in the end, it wasn't my job to save him and I was sinking fast..." As Devastated Dee always says, our first loyalty has to be to our own lives. We have to account for how we spent our time on the planet. At age 69, I'm feeling pretty empty due to all MY time I wasted while waiting for him to GET IT.

[This message edited by Superesse at 2:40 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

Yeah, my XWH is in pretty bad shape from what I understand too. I think they often go downhill when we leave them. And I still say our first loyalty is to ourselves. None of us were put here to prop up unhealthy people and pay for that with our lives. He has all the power and knowledge to pull himself out of this and if he chooses not to, that's up to him. I'm not in charge of his life. For all I know, he's exactly where he wants to be, living with his parents and not working. Watching Netflix all day. This is his choice and it is their choice to allow it.

That's funny, when I told my doctor that I'd left him, she did a little happy dance, grinned and congratulated me. She had been his doctor too. He said he didn't realize she was who I saw at the practice and when he went in for his STD tests a few days after I did, he says she was cold and rude, lol.

And hey, the only thing worse would be to waste even more time, Superesse. You're 69, but you have more time on this earth to do with as you please.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 2:45 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

I FILED THE D!!! He'll be served on Friday! Freedom here I come.

Now he is complaining that he has always been alone in this world and now he really will be alone.

OMG, CBS, this is my STBX - always poor me, I have no one in the world who loves me, blah blah - total lies. And the whole time we were together, he was either mad because I called him during the day and interrupted his precious work or he was mad because I didn't call during the day to check on him and tell him I love him. Fuckwads.

Dee, I surely hope my STBX goes down the tubes - I hate to say that but it would be some validation that he fucked up and is a fuck up.

Superesse - I hope you get to freedom soon. As hard as this is, I don't have to live with suspicion and triggers anymore. I'm actually less depressed and anxious even though I'm experiencing sadness. I'm actually leaving my bedroom, doing yard work, cleaning out closets, shopping, cooking - way more than I was doing when he was here.

Skeeter, Whoo HOOOO! I'm really glad to hear this and that you are happier and more productive.

I honestly sometimes feel like I felt when I was watching my mother dying of cancer over a year and a half. You know and they know there isn't a cure, there's only gonna be one way out. But you feel like you have to go through the agony of it all, and somehow support the working out of it all.

Yes I realize we don't save them and cannot. BUT...as I told the doctor, I hate to think about everything always turning to shit in my life, no matter HOW HARD I WORK to make it go better. I'm by nature a risk taker and problem solver. But these guys have issues nobody else but them can work on. And so often, they just play the victim and admit defeat.

Proof of my approach (stay and work rather than pack my bags) is how I gave him a second chance in 2002...then 12 LONG years later, when I saw he hadn't learned his lesson one bit, out of my own CHICKEN-HEARTED FEAR of going instantly broke a SECOND TIME (my first marriage ended with me losing a house I had built, losing my job and leaving town with only the clothes on my back), I reluctantly offered him "Chance # 2.5" (meaning he could stay on in what was now MY house as my guest on good behavior. Lawyer confirmed it was my right to evict him with no notice, he'd surrendered all Marital Rights to the home) yet why I say not "Chance # 3" is I was done trying to "work on" anything - it would all be up to him.) I thought that was reasonable, and showing some clear boundaries, right? Just NO MORE INTERNET/PORN or LIES BEHIND MY BACK. 6 MORE long years into my "Golden Years" ha, he musta "forgot" the deal we worked out.

Honestly, THIS is what saddens and sickens me most; not only me, but everybody who knows our situation (only my 2 BFFs and you guys). To meet him, you'd never think he was an a#hole. Very hard worker, calm nature, mostly kind-hearted, rarely gets angry...people get the impression I'm the one with a case of the GRUDGE. Plus people call him all the time to send him work. Nobody is calling old ME to do a darn thing. Only you guys - and this new doctor - get what is really driving me down...

Thanks! I see my lawyer in a couple weeks. Now I just have to figure out next steps....go back to work sounds inviting...but I'm "so old." What to do to protect myself and further/ease him out gracefully, if at all possible...just so I can live with my community and he'll still be around, too. Nobody likes Divorce Drama out here in the country, too small a world.

Superesse, are you entitled to alimony in your state? Sounds like a long term marriage and that he's been the financial support or is now.

I hope you work you way through this. It's easy for us to look like the crazy people - they've made us nuts. My STBX is so well-liked, comes off as such a sweet, unassuming guy - I am totally sure there will be plenty of people who think I was the problem. Fuck those people.

Life is sweeter free of abuse and lies and addiction, even if we're poorer.

Skeeter, of course in theory I could get alimony, also half his IRA. BUT...I really gambled bigtime, foolish woman I was, and married a foreign national. My first lawyer in 2002 warned that if we went for all I was entitled to, most likely my SAWH would do as many others have done, and skip the country. Extradition isn't all that easy or quick a process, and costs enormous legal fees even when there are international reciprocity agreements. (I actually knew a woman whose husband deserted her for a hostile nation, and left her with the big mortgage, the business and its debts, and needing to support their family! She moaned that my same lawyer had told her nothing could be done to get to his money, legally!)

While the lawyer said I could have gone through a "desertion" legal process if he did run home to Momma, meantime I knew thousands of dollars in mortgage payments would have come due the following month, and at that time, I had just quit my career to travel with Mr. High-Flying Jet Set Man! I already knew how fast the foreclosure process had gone like, at the end of my first marriage when the bank seized the house we built, after 90 days non-payment, and my XH and I lost 100% of our equity.)

Hence my "decision" to stay, when the same situation came around again in my life!

Oh, by the way, during my early, travel-with-this-hubby times, I met a few other women in similar situations as myself. Glamorous lifestyles covered up their very lopsided options. (Think Tiger Woods and his XW...but without the money!) Things are not always as they seem from the outside looking in.

Maybe my forced patience paid off, as finances are not quite that dire any more. Nowadays, he makes his living at my place, one repair job at a time. However, his work gets done out of my storage building. I guess I could charge him rent, like my lawyer suggested 6 years ago, but as a self-employed person, I knew any business costs he has come "off the top" before any net income a divorce court would consider dividing. So, no matter how I looked at it, seemed I'd get the shaft if/when I ever would kick him out!

I will see what has changed for me legally, now, and what my best move would be. Thanks for listening and empathizing!

[This message edited by Superesse at 7:03 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

Superesse, I totally get your concerns. At a certain age the prospect of starting over isn't feasible. Worst case scenario he can rent your 5th wheel ;/

Well, this day feels surreal. I look forward to double digit NC tomorrow.

Surreal, Skeeter? Like, you didn't think you'd ever get this done? Or, how? For the record, I'm proud of you and your continued NC. I trust it gets a teeny bit easier every day? I think you are feeling the return of Power to make decisions yourself, or your "agency," which marriage necessarily restricts, even in a "good" marriage. Nobody second guessing or criticizing your every little move.

Funny you should joke about the 5th wheel...he just used MY bathroom to take a shower, (even though I have another bathroom upstairs where he used to sleep, with a big corner tub and shower, but noooo). It's going to be a hassle to hook up the RV sewer line to my septic tank out there in my yard, so even with this situation, right now he still needs an unlocked front door, to use the lav. nearest where I parked the RV, for a midnight bathroom visit. The first days before we moved it nearer the house, he got up at 3 am to go to the bathroom and slipped on the RV's metal steps! I don't need him getting hurt.

And funny, I see out the window just now that from the bed area, light is peeking out from around the roller shade, so he's still up, reading...Probably just a car magazine. For a second I did wonder "what if it's..." then I realized his choices out there don't have to affect me, so long as I'm am sure about my stated boundary: NIMH (Not In My House). Although it could be argued we bought the 25 year old RV partly with my money, so it's still sorta "my space," I think the day I found his secret phone was the day I gave up hoping to use that RV for any fun purpose with HIM, so I was just glad it was right there handy, when I needed to boot him out!

And it has a propane furnace, for when the nights turn cold, haha....my brother lives full time in a bigger one just like this. He has lived there for years and seems content.

It's also helping me to distance myself even more than when he was just on another floor. I guess the next step for my peace of mind might be one of those medical alert buttons, to call whomever, after he finds another place to live?

Younger ladies, Please don't be me and have doctors asking you if you've had any falls lately or if you are worried about falling, at the same time you are finally having to kick your only other daily human contact out of the house!

On the subject of how we each got here, I thought of another possible shared history question: who was like me, such a loner teen that the whole "dating scene" was missed? Like, you never got invited to the Prom, and by the time you were out on your own, you were already feeling behind the other girls your age, therefore "grateful" for any attention? This could certainly explain some things I did....

[This message edited by Superesse at 11:59 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

Kicking ass, skeetermooch!! Yes girl!

On the subject of how we each got here, I thought of another possible shared history question: who was like me, such a loner teen that the whole "dating scene" was missed? Like, you never got invited to the Prom, and by the time you were out on your own, you were already feeling behind the other girls your age, therefore "grateful" for any attention? This could certainly explain some things I did....

I was raised in a very conservative home and kind of lost my mind when I got a driver's license. I did a lot of "dating" and was pretty promiscuous as a teen. Combo of a reaction to being raped at 16 and having been told that everything about sex was bad and sinful. I treated sex like a stereotypical guy would. I didn't get into a serious relationship until my early 20s.

And Superesse, I feel you. I lost everything in my first divorce and started over. I started over again after my second divorce. It is seriously annoying to start over. I'm not interested in getting married again just to avoid having to start over AGAIN. I hear that women do so well in divorce, LOL. Not my experience. I totally understand not wanting to deal with that at 69. I'm annoyed to have done it in my 30s and then again in my 40s. I could be in such better financial shape had I avoided entangling myself with marriage. I hate that I see marriage that way now, like a bad deal waiting to happen.

I hate that I see marriage that way now, like a bad deal waiting to happen.

At a certain point, if you have assets, it's a big risk to get married. I'll be so relieved when the ink is dry because I have everything I've worked for to lose.

Superesse, get that fool a composting toilet - doesn't need a sewer hook up. He can sprinkle saw dust on his poop and clean the thing out once a week. Seems fitting for a weasel.

Day 10 of NC! There are some uncomfortable moments, some crappy unproductive thoughts, mind movies etc but they come and go. I can't believe I entertained R. He was never acting like someone trying to change, other than occasional lip service. I'm feeling a bit embarrassed that I hung in there harboring hope. Glad I found my bitch boots.

Skeeter, You strut those bitch boots, woman!

Composting toilet....

I think there are rules about how long RVs can be occupied here, no longer than 30 days in one spot. It's coming up on 30 days this week, so good thing I'm out on a farm, long way from the roads...and nosey neighbors, eh? But that composting toilet might be a bit rough and ready, even for here!

Thanks for starting my day with a giggle. And celebrate double digit days of NC! What will you do, today?

I guess I better be careful what I dream up on here: just yesterday, I joked about thenext step for my NC might be getting a medical alert device...then at 5 am this morning, I woke up with a thumping rapid heart beat (after I suppose I wasn't breathing deeply enough, possible apnea) then got hot (from panic) and wow....had to do deep breathing for what seemed a long time just to calm things down! Grabbed my flip phone and looked at it for a LONG time. Told myself "I'll be okay in a few minutes...no need to call HIM!" (Don't laugh at my flip phone, y'all, this has been a "low tech household" for years to avoid exactly what I discovered him doing Aug. 2nd, all to no avail)

And the doctor yesterday confirmed prolonged stress can cause most of the symptoms I've had, including even my recent elevated fasting glucose. So now I'm going to have to watch that, too...the fun never ends.

Devastated Dee, I bet mostly you hear that comment about "women doing well in a Divorce" from the men, right? Many stories in D/S and New Beginnings would argue against women doing better than men economically, so don't feel bad, you and I have lots of company, in reality. (Though I've yet to meet another woman who designed and built a house with her own two hands and then lost all the equity in it, as happened to me and my XH.)

I was thinking about that doctor yesterday, how she told me she used her much-needed vacation last week to catch up on things around the house and yard that badly needed done. (Because she's the only Adult.) She also said she didn't want to risk going somewhere far away on a trip and potentially getting exposed to Covid, because if that happened, she'd have to stay home for 2 weeks, and she really can't afford to be off work that long. She explained that her hospital employer wouldn't cover her time off if she tested positive as a result of her own actions, but only if she was exposed during the course of her job. It's smart to avoid "hot spots" during this pandemic, yet I still wondered why she couldn't risk a "fun" vacation, especially on a doctor's salary. I bet it relates to her economic survival.

I had an update call from the rehab. I asked my therapist to join in the call since I've had such a hard time getting accurate info from their family reps. Thank goodness I did. It's like the family rep just has generic talking points, and repeats them over them and over to run out the clock. My shrink was able to calmly drill in and say, "What I hear BR asking is xxx," and force an answer.

So she told me that WH is appropriately sharing info and being vulnerable, and I said, "How would you know? How do you know he's not just giving you the answers he thinks you want to hear so that you'll like him like he's done his whole life?" And she said while there are no guarantees, the fact that there's a multidisciplinary team helps with that, which is frankly, BS. He lied to me and our MC and his IC. That's a multidisciplinary team.

She said I could write an impact statement. Really, what's the point? If the guy doesn't know after 3 months of my screaming and crying how badly traumatized I am, he's got his head further up his you-know-what than I thought possible.

I'm sounding pretty angry aren't I. I didn't sleep much last night. I made the mistake of reading the SI investigative page right before bed and spent much of the night accessing old google searches. I also tried starting on Cymbalta yesterday and OMG, I had a terrible headache and my muscles were cramping. I'm done with that.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 4:54 PM, September 2nd (Wednesday)]

Black Raven, so sorry your struggling. It's a lot of bs, isn't it? So many SAs go to rehab clinics and so few get better that they must just start dialing it in. It's life or death to us but it's just another payday to them.

I don't see why you should write an impact statement either - he was there. If he can't comprehend your pain, he may be a sociopath like my STBX. And, that's their job anyway - they should explain to them to impact on their partner. It's well-studied.

It's basically one shit sandwich after another with these men.

Black Raven-

I'm sorry. The progress addicts make are so slow. And you are right to question the vulnerability.

I find that my husband's vulnerability inside the 12 step environment is not the same sort of vulnerability with he has with me. I do honestly think my husband is genuine in his meetings.

As for the impact statement...I know my husband is not capable of doing the work to repair our marriage. But, I personally still do have a desire to be heard, with regards to the damage he's caused. It makes me feel better. That doesn't mean that I think my husband will get it any better. I actually don't think he will.

That impact statement stuff...I mean, I said and wrote so much to him, but if he were the kind of person who could comprehend my pain, he wouldn't have been the kind of person who would have done the things he did. So I don't even know if there's a point to those. Impact statement just felt like an attack to him and made him feel victimized. "I'll never live it down" reaction. It took me time to comprehend that he really could not feel what I was telling him. That is why these men are dangerous to normal people. It's beyond that they don't care. I think it's that they can't care. They can give lip service all day long, but actually care? I don't know that there's much of that in them. The level of self-centeredness is profound.