SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Do you mean if I trust she wouldn’t cheat again? If I was in outside looking in, and watched all the conversations I would believe she is remorseful. Unless she is an Oscar winning type of actress the regret she is shot is real, I believe she would rather commit a suicide before cheating again.

From the outside looking in, it probably looked like she would never cheat in the first place. I doubt you married her thinking you would be here today. I doubt your friends and family ever thought this would happen either unless there are some BIG red flags they let slip by without alerting you to. As an outsider with experience in infidelity, I know far better than to never say never.

The deal is - she may be remorseful today. The regret and starts of remorse you are seeing are probably real. But this pain and this drive to keep you WILL wear off. Might be 6 months from now. Might be a year. Might be several years when your marriage gets boring again, your work has picked up, maybe you're not as attentive because you're still dealing with some of the effects of the fallout of her A, and a new attractive potential OM is hitting on her. Is she going to think back and remember in great detail the pain and difficulty she faced today? Maybe but never in the same way you will.

How much effort SHE puts into R in the next few years GREATLY affects whether she will give into temptation again or not in the future. Not how much she cries. Not how sorry she is today. Not how much she begs to stay married. None of that matters because most WSes do the exact same thing. It's how deeply she looks inside herself and changes that selfishness that brought her to the road that ended in a LTA in the first place that will make the difference. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before temptation comes around again and you are back here with DDay #2 and I encourage you to read around more and see exactly how many other posters got the same tears, promises, and initial push for IC/MC/R that you did who came back 1 year, 3 years, 5, 10 years later with a new DDay to see that it's FAR too early to say for sure whether she'll do it again or not. In a year, you may know but right now, it's all up in the air.

It's up to you whether you want to give her that time to make a more informed decision or not. It's up to you whether the new marriage you will be building is worth it or not. There's no right or wrong answer unless you find broken NC or other deal breaker territory in which case she takes herself firmly out of the potential R zone. But as long as things continue as they are, the choice is yours and yours alone.

Personally, if I were you and you believe there is ANY chance of R happening, I'd get the polygraph and make sure this is the one and only A you are recovering from and that there are no big, scary details she's left out or big lies she is still keeping before making any decision about R. There are still stones that need to be overturned for good in your case.

^ ^ ^ ^

Great post nekonamida - full of great wisdom and advice!!

Cheers

Ron

Does her tattoo trigger you?

Not really, the tattoo itself is not bothering me, What I have problem with is accepting what she did and move on one way or another. There are things that are beyond me to explain or understand. Like do I pity her? how come she suddenly woke up from her fog, can someone really be that brainwashed during an affair?

In regard of dating or seeing other women, the biggest obstacle I have is I have no idea how to do it. I could be the only 44 years old man in America who never asked a woman out, I never been in dating sites never hit on a girl in a bar, I basically know nothing about dating other than what I saw in the movies. I’ve Been with the same woman since my teenage. My brother wants me to meet a lady related to his wife because he believes that I should distract myself from my WW and A talks. His wife wants to stay neutral because she also considers my WW a friend.

I had dinner with OBS and got to meet 2 of her kids, I told her what I learned from the timeline. She confirmed some of the details. Like the use of an enhancing drug before sex . She told a story where he did something similar with A women that used to be his friend’s wife, He floored her with gifts and flowers he even gave her a huge amount of money to help her buy a car she always wanted and couldn’t afford he presented it as a gift for both of them but the husband found out that the POS did that because he was fucking the wife. The POS uses the same strategy luring her with sweet talk and gifts.

nekonamida, you are correct, I never thought she would cheat, and more shocking was the amount of lies and deception she was able to do the last 2 years, I just can’t explain it. However I was blind too and maybe arrogant too, I thought I had everything under control and didn’t have to check on her.

Personally, if I were you and you believe there is ANY chance of R happening, I'd get the polygraph and make sure this is the one and only A you are recovering from and that there are no big, scary details she's left out or big lies she is still keeping before making any decision about R. There are still stones that need to be overturned for good in your case.

Well, I was supposed to question her more but I had to stop after the overwhelming information that she provided. There eee many point in the time line that I wanted to ask but we never got to them one of them was her GNOs prior the affair and the nude picture she allowed him to take, I don’t think I m gonna talk to her any time soon but if I do I will definitely ask

Unless she is an Oscar winning type of actress the regret she is shot is real

Regret is not REMORSE.

They are different.

as for the tattoo, leave it, alter it, remove it - it doesn’t matter. Whatever is there will ALWAYS be a painful reminder and a trigger — whether it’s a scar, an altered symbol or the original tattoo.

Symbolically that is much like her very presence - which you will find over time is the biggest trigger of all.

What I have problem with is accepting what she did and move on one way or another. There are things that are beyond me to explain or understand. Like do I pity her? how come she suddenly woke up from her fog, can someone really be that brainwashed during an affair?

It takes time to process this massive betrayal. Don't expect answers to everything above.

IC helps. Distance helps.

The battle in your head is normal (and sounds familiar). You like many of us won't know the outcome until it's over.

Once it's settled, you'll either be focused on rebuilding your marriage or you'll be focused on starting a new life without her.

Neither path is wrong as long as the path you eventually choose is the one that leads to a content and happy future for you.

Your wife made her choices. It's now your turn to make your choices. Choose the best for yourself; you're worth it. Take care.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:38 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]

In regard of dating or seeing other women, the biggest obstacle I have is I have no idea how to do it. I could be the only 44 years old man in America who never asked a woman out, I never been in dating sites never hit on a girl in a bar,

You may not be ready yet but when you are just be honest about your life. I predict you will be surprised at how in demand you are.

My son is on 'Match' in the DC area. It amazes me how many available attractive women there who are 40yo, kids/no kids, own their home, financially independent & working - with interesting life stories.

The fact that you never dated in your life and don't know what to do should not scare you into staying with the WW. I had not dated much before I met my ex-wife. But, I was so angry and so fed up with her lying and cheating over the length of our marriage, I forced myself to learn how to do it. My perspective on dating changed radically after we split up. I won't sugarcoat the dating life. A lot of frustration and wasted energy. It could take quite a while to find the right one. But, after years of wandering the desert, I found a great woman one thousand times better than what I had. I was told to look for a widow. Kind of silly, I thought, but after dating over one hundred women, I ended up with one. Who knew. Sounds like you are a solid guy. Your wife took you for granted and went for excitement. That was her choice. My choice would be to kick her to the curb like a bad habit. The affair sounds just too bloody. Personally, I don't see how a timeline helped unless you are bent on going for a divorce. It creates rage and hurt that makes it almost impossible to R. Even if you do decide to stay at this point, your feelings for your WW spouse will never get close to being the same. You will live in the shadow of the affair for the rest of your marriage. Any way you slice it, she threw your marriage under the bus without a blink. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with this person? One more thing. DO NOT let anyone guilt you, or try and talk you into staying. Our therapist did that to me, and all that happened was six more years of purgatory for me.

[This message edited by src9043 at 2:07 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]

AH,

My biggest thought now is, how are you? To be honest I can only judge from the more subdued tone of your latest post, but I get an undertone of depression. If this is true, it is completely understandable, but please, that pit has no bottom, I know.

I have never share here how my life was destroyed after my wife's A. I fell so deep into depression, that I lost everything and I mean everything and for a couple of years, I'm ashamed to say I kept on looking for answers in the bottom of a whiskey glass (I was never a drinker before) where I never found them.

I was too strong, too proud, too stubborn to seek professional help. This is something I would change in a heartbeat in hindsight.

Please, I beg of you, do not dwell in a pit of despair if you feel depression or even just the onset of depression.

Though posting here will help and we are there for you, each of us in their own way, please, if things become overwhelming, seek immediate professional help.

I could be totally off-base with this post and might just be projecting what I went through here, but right or wrong. I am making this post out of concern.

Strength to you AH.

Go back and read the post by neko as it's right on the mark.

AH, you're only 44 yrs old. Whatever direction you go you have a long road left in your journey of life (if this is God's plan for you).

If you decide to go down the road of attempting R I sure hope it's because your wife has put in the work, that you yourself are willing to give it a go, and more importantly that you don't D her because she's all you've known and you're afraid of going in a new direction because you've never been out in the dating world and that you wouldn't know what to do.

If it's a dealbreaker it's a dealbreaker AH.

Don't stay with her for the wrong reasons. If you D her you'll figure the other stuff out and trust me there are numerous women out there (damn good women) who would be very interested in a man like you.

Don't let fear be your guide!!!

Question. How old are OBS kids and did they have anything to say to you?

One more point. I agree with your brother. If he has a nice lady for you to have dinner with, do it. Be upfront beforehand with her that you need someone to talk to and that you are not close to being ready to get involved with someone else and that you have not ended the marriage. But if she is still willing to meet, go for it. You will enjoy talking to another female. It may even build your confidence. At this point, you owe nothing to anyone, especially your WW. You need to build your confidence and feelings of desirability. Do not let fear be mistaken for a desire to keep the marriage intact. Good luck, don't be a chump.

Hi AH

You are handling this shit storm as good as could be expected.

use of an enhancing drug before sex

This has been brought up a few times now. What drug? Poppers? Cocaine with viagra? DID YOUR WIFE USE THE DRUG TOO? If it is addictive like cocaine, she needs other addiction help. FYI cocaine is highly sexual but usually leaves a man with performance issues. Is she using cocaine?

Dating:

I was a virgin, young man when I married too. So I was 37 just a few years short of your 44.

You are a prize, trust me you will not have any problems dating many women. I started dating and could not believe how fast it got out of control (women talk). I found I was a prize unlike the way I was treated and actually believed I sucked in bed.

You have a big problem though - you stipulated, no dating during your separation! Has your WW broken any terms of separation (Is she NC with POSAP)? Can you maintain your integrity and date? I did not think you should have stipulated not dating, but no matter, I think it is still a little to soon to start "getting under another to get over the other". Six month is not too long of a wait and many will argue that dating should wait for D. My D took 4.5 years (really did) so no I did not wait.

You need to figure out if you are going to D for sure or try and R. How would you R if you want to try?

can someone really be that brainwashed during an affair?

Short answer is YES Long answer is very hard to express and understand but yes she was addicted and trying to find a way out, but still loved you and was lying to herself, POSAP and you.

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 2:42 PM, September 12th, 2020 (Saturday)]

My biggest thought now is, how are you? To be honest I can only judge from the more subdued tone of your latest post, but I get an undertone of depression.

I'm OK, not great but OK. I don't think I'm depressed. I still have the ability to stop thinking about everything if I want to and focus on work or whatever I want to do. if you see me working you wouldn't think that I have any problem. I do have this feeling of dissatisfaction and I get furious that there isn't anything I can do that would be enough to stop that feeling. I try to keep myself busy other wise that feeling keeps upsetting me. I don't think this is depression, is it?

Like you, I'm resorting to alcohol. let say I had more drinks the last 2 months than what I had all year last year.

This has been brought up a few times now. What drug? Poppers? Cocaine with viagra? DID YOUR WIFE USE THE DRUG TOO? If it is addictive like cocaine, she needs other addiction help. FYI cocaine is highly sexual but usually leaves a man with performance issues. Is she using cocaine?

my understanding is that's some sort of pill for erection and stamina not a cocaine or any illegal drugs.

Organic, I'm not going to any date before the separation period is over. my brother said that seeing other women doesn't necessary mean dating them. this woman he wants me to see is single no kids in her mid 30s,

Short answer is YES Long answer is very hard to express and understand but yes she was addicted and trying to find a way out, but still loved you and was lying to herself, POSAP and you.

Except we also know she wrote off AHGuy for four years prior to the affair and did any number of cruel and disrespectful things like shitting on his Canada vacation plans.

So I don’t think it’s helpful to have rose colored glasses on about his WW’s “love” - she acted in deeply unloving ways well before the affair.

Love is a verb.

Let’s not forget that and give advice accordingly.

my brother said that seeing other women doesn't necessary mean dating them. this woman he wants me to see is single no kids in her mid 30s,

This is your life - not your WW’s or anyone in this thread

I think giving yourself some space and working on you is important. That said I think the company of wonderful women is healing. I see no harm in taking her to lunch or for coffee and keeping it light.

Nevertheless you did say you wouldn’t see others during the separation. Your WW is cunning I’ll give her that. Was that part in writing as part of a binding agreement. You could always say the timeline has altered your thinking and you don’t think it’s fair for you to be bound by loyalty during a separation after your WW Already divorced you in spirit.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:10 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]

AH,

I am a bit concerned about how you are feeling, depression is a silent killer, I can't say yes or no as to whether how you are feeling is or is not depression, but the alcohol is alarming. I though it was helping, but in the end, it was a spirit killer and it is a depressant.

Please just look after yourself and IC doesn't hurt if only to gain some peace of mind.

You are self medicating on alcohol.

Quite possibly, you are suffering from reactive depression. See your doc about whether you need to be on a low dose of anti depressants.

Take care!

Ron

One more thing. DO NOT let anyone guilt you, or try and talk you into staying. Our therapist did that to me, and all that happened was six more years of purgatory for me.

I only quote this to point out yet another shitty therapist as it pertains to infidelity. The reason I do this is because of the almost lockstep advice to seek out therapy, particularly for the cheater who is just going to lie and seek validation anyway.

Short answer is YES Long answer is very hard to express and understand but yes she was addicted and trying to find a way out, but still loved you and was lying to herself, POSAP and you.

I think you are a good guy but please stop romanticizing what this woman did and who she is. She's simply a selfish, disloyal person with weak morals. She can't be trusted once she walks around the corner.

To try to spin this as her lying to Mr. Rich Scumbag while she was truly feeling love for AHguy and trying to find a way out simply flies in the face of the facts we know.

my brother said that seeing other women doesn't necessary mean dating them. this woman he wants me to see is single no kids in her mid 30s,

I'm with your brother! I also slightly disagree with Thumos.

As far as your separation agreement, your wife has already violated that + everything she has promised since you busted her + her wedding vows + the very fabric of your relationship.

I don't think you should feel bound to be a lonely hermit. If you must, just tell your wife you have decided to alter your agreement, that is more consideration than she has shown you by a mile.

I think you should see this woman. See how you feel. See if you can forget your wife for a while. I think it won't muddle your outlook.

Rather it will provide you the clarity of understanding your wife is not the only person who is ever possible for you.

A mature, single woman in her 30s with no kids. What's not to like?

Sit down and break bread with a woman who hasn't lied to, betrayed, and shitted all over you.

You might even enjoy yourself!

[This message edited by faithfulman at 4:41 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]

I only mentioned the separation agreement bc I didn’t know if it would violate the terms somehow from a legal standpoint.

But otherwise I see no harm in taking a woman out for lunch or coffee to get to know her.

I only mentioned the separation agreement bc I didn’t know if it would violate the terms somehow from a legal standpoint.

But otherwise I see no harm in taking a woman out for lunch or coffee to get to know her.

That's not what I meant Thumos.

What I meant is for AHguy to go into this arranged date (Let's call it what it is) with an open mind and a mindset geared toward moving on with his life. lunch and coffee are good. I wouldn't rule out dinner or another type of beverage either.

I am not saying he should try to have sex or start a romance with this woman. While he should not be desperate for a replacement for his wife, he should also not overlook opportunities to have a relationship with a decent woman. Maybe she is just a friend to AHguy in a difficult time.

His wife should be understanding of that. (Edited to add, I don't think she will be understanding.)

And moving further out, if he decides that after he has seen what else there might be out there, he wants to return to his wife, well, if she is sincere about her desire to be a good, honest, trustworthy wife, she should understand (As should the pastor!) and she'll then get her chance to prove that. And I doubt that is the case.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:49 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]