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Newest Member: Remorsefulforever

Just Found Out :
New betrayed husband Part 2

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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 3:57 AM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

How are you doing brother. R u communicating with the family and WW?

One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1318   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8587234
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Elysian16 ( new member #74669) posted at 3:57 AM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

Thanks. I'll sign off. AHGuy take what benefits you and leave the rest.

posts: 11   ·   registered: Jun. 25th, 2020
id 8587235
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 AHGuy (original poster member #74925) posted at 1:16 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

Unless I missed it, I never heard AH say that he was going to date. He didn't even say "Hey, my brother wants to set up a lunch meeting with a woman. What's your opinion on this?"

If he wants our opinion, he'll ask. I don't think that pages of responses are needed here.

Thanks for this JB3199, I apologize for not being clear.I do not intent to meet or date the lady my brother suggested or any other woman at this moment. I was just asking your opinion about what my brother think, he thinks that there is no harm in seeing other women it isn't dating and it would help me in my situation. I just wanted to know how it will help. so unless something crazy happens, I won't seek any other woman before March 3rd 2021.

How are you doing brother. R u communicating with the family and WW?

Thanks for asking, I'm forced to be home for now because of a possible contact with someone who's showing Covid symptoms. That sucks really. I feel fine but as a precaution I gotta isolate my self. so I'm home all day at least today maybe longer.

communication with WW is almost none. she spent time with my sons this weekend I told them to stay with her since I might have Covid but they did not want to. I spent lot of time with couple of friends both Saturday and Sunday, except for the possible exposure to Covid, it was nice. I'm able to completely put everything behind me and just have fun.

posts: 127   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2020
id 8587289
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DeWittle ( member #50857) posted at 1:44 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

I apologize for not being clear.I do not intent to meet or date the lady my brother suggested or any other woman at this moment.

I believe as long as the door is open to R, this is the best and ethical thing to do. Great decision.

posts: 346   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2015
id 8587300
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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 1:46 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

AHGuy, if the last portion of your post is accurate, then I see no reason for you to pseudo-date women. I think your brother recommended it as a distraction and to possibly re-build your confidence. However, if you are doing well spending time with friends and family, then you don't need another distraction. And it will allow you time to heal. Keep your focus on yourself. You will know when you are ready to proceed with meeting someone else, and that would likely only occur if/when you decide to D.

It sounds as though your WW is now giving you space? I'm hoping she is not texting or reaching out to you regularly. I think you know that she will likely continue to do so, in an effort to push you to reconcile. Hopefully, she will respect your request.

An interesting part of that, a lot of WS's want to push BS to R, to show them how important they are and that they will do ANYTHING to R. Anything except the one thing that has been requested, which is STAY AWAY. Their efforts are counterproductive.

posts: 1593   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8587301
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shareonhearts ( member #52869) posted at 3:02 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

Howdy AH

I don't think a lunch with a lady is a bad thing. I was married 22 years. Only man I had sex with. I didn't date for two years after our split. I went out before being divorced and it was a great thing. Nothing serious just spent time with the opposite sex that made we feel more confident...Nothing sexual until I was divorced. Meeting these Men helped me to understand that my world did not absolutely revolve around 'him'. I will also warn you that a couple of guys wanted more from me that I was willing to give at the time so that became confusing in a "dating sense". I was farther down the road....Like I said 2 years into the mess..but it helped me with my EGO IMMENSELY. Take it at your own pace and stay safe.....PS If your brother recommends her maybe wait until you are truly ready she may be a KEEPER!

Fool me once shame on me......Fool me twice shame on YOU!

posts: 190   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2016   ·   location: California
id 8587324
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Browsing41 ( new member #72237) posted at 4:07 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

AH

You are wondering how she got out the fog so quickly. That is a very good question. What's changed from one day wanting to to leave you for another man and the very next day it's all a mistake and she never really wanted to do that. How does she go from wanting a divorce one day to you still being her everything the very next day? Those are some of the things that you should be asking her at some point in time. Maybe you should be writing these questions down come back to later.

Someone pointed out that you needed to think about the long term. I also think this is good advice. What about 3,4 or 5 years from now when your children are having children of their own. When they are less present how will your wife feel about you then. The reason I bring this up is because she really does seem more concerned about what They think than what you think. Maybe this isn't bad but I get the feeling she would care a lot less if she would not have to worry about what everyone else thinks about what she did to you. What if the kids and her family could care less about what she did to you. Would she still regret what she did if you were the only one who cared?

I think these are some of the things you need to be asking her.

posts: 37   ·   registered: Dec. 6th, 2019
id 8587351
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 4:41 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

Good to hear from you, AHGuy. Glad you are able to spend time with friends (I went to see a movie with a friend this weekend, and it was a great break from tension after I told my WW I want a divorce - although the movie “Tenet” was one of the more confusing yet entertaining spectacles I’ve seen in awhile).

Hope your WW continues to give you space and good luck with your quarantine and hoping you come back negative on COVID.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:41 AM, September 14th (Monday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8587361
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ramius ( member #44750) posted at 4:46 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

How does the “Fog” clear so quickly? Because in this case it must.

She is a vine swinger. And you don’t let go of one vine until you have a hold of the next one.

She was reaching, with all her might, to grab that “rich lover” vine. But alas it swung away. (Que the heartbreaking music)

So now she must cling tighter than ever to her original vine, lest she fall to the jungle floor.

It is a survival mechanism.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1656   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8587363
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Booyah ( member #60124) posted at 5:19 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

AH sure hope you don't have the virus!!

Keep us posted.

Also wanted to apologize to those who differ on the topic of dating. At the end of the day all of us are just trying to help AH and with that comes differing viewpoints.

Thumos please accept my apology for being so gruff with you on my previous post.

With that said AH I hope today is better than yesterday for you.

posts: 1254   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2017
id 8587379
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 AHGuy (original poster member #74925) posted at 5:39 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

AH sure hope you don't have the virus!!

Thanks, I don't have any symptoms but they said it might take few days before they show up.

AH

You are wondering how she got out the fog so quickly. That is a very good question. What's changed from one day wanting to to leave you for another man and the very next day it's all a mistake and she never really wanted to do that. How does she go from wanting a divorce one day to you still being her everything the very next day? Those are some of the things that you should be asking her at some point in time. Maybe you should be writing these questions down come back to later.

I asked that question in different ways, I told her that I must have been a horrible husband to her if she contemplated divorce and since she already explored the possibility of having another man shouldn't be easier for er to accept divorce? she never had any good answer other than she never wanted divorce. she probably doesn't have answer herself. BTW she is starting IC this week couldn't remember exact day but for sure this week.

Hope your WW continues to give you space and good luck with your quarantine and hoping you come back negative on COVID.

thanks Thumos, WW has been respecting my space, she understands that now. she knows that she can initiate any contact unless it's an urgent matter. Quarantine is B,I'm not the type who stts home doing nothing so I gotta finds things to do.

posts: 127   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2020
id 8587389
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whatIknowNow ( member #69015) posted at 7:14 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

She is a vine swinger.

Money-brancher. Hypergamous. It is a thing and this situation looks like textbook.

posts: 109   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2018   ·   location: Texoma
id 8587428
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 7:32 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

Monkey-branching IS a thing. No doubt about it. Typically, the "monkey" is moving up in social/financial terms or at least attempting to move up. But I doubt that we can definitively diagnose AH's WW with this type of behavior since she's got no prior history of it. The typical monkey-brancher just isn't all that emotionally or intellectually deep. She's always on the look-out for the next best thing. Her relationships will be a series of short ones which either move her up or move her back, probably no longer than 5-7 years before she gets the itch to go again. It's a real hard sale for me to believe that one would sit in their first real relationship for 27 years and then take up monkey-branching as a way of life.

Why is it that so many on this thread keep hearing zebras galloping in the distance when the more likely hoofbeats are horses? This WW has already done enough wrong in her marriage to deserve divorce if that's what AHGuy chooses. There's no need to invent more.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7089   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8587435
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 7:36 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

Hope all goes well.

Buffer

Buffer

posts: 1318   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8587437
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 10:46 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

AHGuy, I'm saying this somewhat in jest, but you deserve an award or something. I've been on this site for a little over a year and I haven't seen a situation generate (now) two full threads of 50 pages (nearly) and will likely continue into a third one. The closest I've seen was Westway's thread, which is epic in scope. I've dialed back responding because you have had pages and pages and pages of responses and I think it's all going kind of circular now. This is just a message of support. There really is a reason so many people seem to be on your side in this-- because they are. Nobody likes to see a good man disrespected and humiliated like you have, and many people are weighing in. Good luck in filtering it all out. Personally, I think you are on the right track-- be very cautious with her going forward. There are a lot of things about her narrative that just don't sync up.

Good luck, man. You deserve some happiness now. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be out of this situation, nothing at all. Sending strength.

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
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“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 799   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8587519
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 10:56 PM on Monday, September 14th, 2020

AHGuy, I haven't been posting much in your thread.

I don't have any specific advice for you. I just wanted to send some strength and understanding your way. This shit is hard.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2906   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8587523
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Stillbleeding7 ( member #74983) posted at 12:07 AM on Tuesday, September 15th, 2020

AH

It's good to have some time away from WW to clear your mind. Keep her away for as long as you need to get your self centered. The fact that you feel more calm as she is staying away as per the agreement shows you what you need. While meeting other women may distract you form the pain, that will be more to process as you are processing what you want with regard to WW.

There will be time enough to find the right woman to help you heal the rest of your life. I say help you heal because you will be doing just that. Yes you will need to heal some before you get into a relationship with someone so you don't destroy that relationship, but she will help you heal when she is in your life. If you R it will be WW, if you D there are many women who will have your best interest at heart.

You don't have to be concerned about your lack of experience the right one will be quite taken by you innocence. It will be something that she will find intoxicating about you.

Please let me encourage you to stop drinking. I too self medicated and it made more work for me to overcome. If you do D, you don't want to muddy the water around you and diminish your self for the woman you want. I had to work hard to get out of that mindset and get back to the gym. Yes the alcohol has some pain killing property but in the end it's just a whiskey lullaby. If you just stat working out you can save your self some steps.

I support you. You are going to make it.

posts: 59   ·   registered: Jul. 23rd, 2020
id 8587547
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MountainGuy ( new member #75436) posted at 1:19 AM on Tuesday, September 15th, 2020

AHguy

First off, I think you’re handling the divorce/possible reconciliation really well. I think it’s especially important to hold her feet to the fire for honesty and to encourage real introspection. That’s the route my brother’s taken and it seems to be working for them.

In one of your posts you question how your wife could have been taken in by this guy, let herself get duped into cheating on you. From the way you describe her she’s smart, a business woman, successful in her own right. She’s not a fool, yet she wound up acting incredibly foolish.

With all honesty I don’t think any of that matters as far as a relationship with someone goes. You and her were each other’s firsts, from high school on. You’ve been married 25 years or so? Despite how she presents herself, or what she’s done, she has zero experience with men, other than you. What she knows from soap operas and romance novels doesn’t count. Now granted, as a real estate agent she’s probably been hit on by men more than you want to know, but she never acted on any of that (as far as we know). Because of that, she probably thought she had a good head on her shoulders and could handle a customer that was too friendly. And then she met the POSOM.

Her meeting this guy is literally like going rabbit hunting and running into a grizzly bear. POSOM isn’t some bored husband looking for a good time. This man is a predator. A sexual sociopath (if not an actual one). As far as starting and maintaining these ‘relationships’ go he has no remorse, no compassion, he will say or do anything for it because his self esteem is built on them. Look at how many women he had on the line in the last year or so? 5? 6 including his wife? This isn’t a fluke. This isn’t something he does for fun, or because he’s looking for a distraction. This is what he does. This is all he does. His entire sense of self worth is tied up in controlling and manipulating women. The money, the business, it’s his vehicle for meeting and exploiting women. His entire life is built around this. I guarantee you this man has never had an honest relationship in his life. He gets women, he uses them, and then moves on to the next one. He’s what 58? Odds are he’s been doing this his entire adult life, so 40 years or so. Almost as long as you and your wife have been alive.

And it’s not about the sex, it’s about the power, the control, the domination. You mention that he had a girl in a condo that he was paying the rent for. That’s not because he’s a nice guy, it’s to control her. Making her dependent on him is paramount to his ego and self esteem. Everything comes from him and she has to be grateful. This is why your wife got the contract from him, to make her grateful. This is why you got a contract, to make her more grateful. The whole thing with having you drive out to West Virginia? That was him flexing, not for you, and not even for your wife. I believe her when she says she didn’t know, because that made it so much better for him, a manipulation on a grand scale. It was solely for his own enjoyment. Having you drive her to him was a 100% ego trip for him and him alone. His comments to her afterwards were the same; incredibly funny to him, because she didn’t even know he had tricked her into humiliating her own husband. To him you were just a couple of country bumpkins that he could trick, and humiliate and the best part was that neither of you had any idea it was going on. It was all about him preening for the only person that matters to him; himself.

Again everything is for this purpose, to feed his ego. He uses money like a tool to get what he wants. Let’s both be honest, the sole reason your wife got the contract was because he wanted to sleep with her. That's when this really began. He went into this for the sole purpose of stalking and seducing your wife, it wasn’t because she was a good realtor, or was smart, or competent. He wanted her, and in his mind, he gets what he wants.

I’m not saying your wife is guiltless, she certainly isn’t. She admitted to you that when she got the tulip tattoo she wanted to open herself up to ‘opportunities’. I imagine she thought she’d try a fling. Again, she saw herself as a smart, sophisticated woman. She’d watched enough Sex in the City to know what was what. She had opened herself mentally to the idea of an affair, something small, just dipping a toe in and seeing how she liked the water. And then she met POSOM, like a teenager deciding to hitchhike down to the store and the first person that picks her up is a serial killer. A guy who has been playing love games since she was wearing diapers. 40+ years at this, how many other women do you think he’s tricked and manipulated? 100? 200? more?

You’re still in touch with the OBS, his soon to be ex-wife. It sounds like you respect her. She seems smart, determined, driven. Guess what? He fooled her too, just like your wife. Ask her why she married this guy. How did he trick her? Because he obviously did, and did it for a long time. If a woman as tough and smart as OBS fell for his bullshit what chance did your wife have? Again, not excusing her behavior. She betrayed the fundamental trust of your marriage, but she got played by a pro, and played hard. Run what I’ve said about POSOM by OBS and get her take. I’ve never met the man, but I’ve met men like him. I’m willing to admit I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Another thing. After reading the transcript of your wife’s final call with POSUM the part where he goes from lovey dovey, to absolutely enraged in .5 seconds, that really made me nervous. What do you think would have happened to your wife if she had been there in person? I have a feeling if you go back far enough, dig deep enough, you’re going to find at least one girl who told him no to his face and it didn’t go well for her. Healthy people can’t go from happy to I hate that quickly. Something is broken in this man and personally I think your wife was lucky she wasn’t assaulted, or worse. Again though, I don’t know the man, just how you’ve described him.

The other thing I wanted to cover was your confusion over your wife’s inability to fully accept responsibility for what happened. I know a lot of people have talked about blame shifting, or cheaters revising events to paint themselves in a better light as standard behavior. No one really talks about why.

Human beings are all pretty consistent despite all of us being so much different from one another. One of those constants is that we all want to be the good guy. We are hardwired to not only want to think of ourselves as good, but to help other people. We get a burst of chemicals in our brains that reinforces that desire. We literally become addicted to good deeds.

Your wife is no different. She created this image of herself where she was a good person, a good wife, a good mother. A church going, God fearing woman. Someone respected by her friends and co-workers, loved by her husband and children. And it was all a lie.

Again when she got that tulip tattoo she didn’t say she did it to cheat, just to ‘open herself to opportunities’ or some such. She says that because the truth, that she wanted to look into fucking other people, is just too vulgar to say. Good wives don’t do that sort of thing. It’s certainly not something a good mother or God fearing woman would do. No, it has to be phrased *just* right, otherwise she isn’t the hero of this story, there’s nothing heroic about breaking your marriage vows. When she starts with POSOM (can we just call him possum?) she tells herself it’s just a kiss, just a little fooling around. Then it’s just this once, the husband will never know. Then she starts to get feelings, get confused, and she tells herself she deserves this because you don’t pay enough attention, spend too much time at work, went to Canada to go hunting. Each step of the way there’s another reason, another justification. To continue she has to believe these things, because if she can’t then her whole self image is a lie, and she’s the real bad guy here, not you. If you look at Nazi Germany’s slow walk to the holocaust it’s filled with same self deluding nonsense. Each step justifies the next and down the hole she goes. Any rational person would poke a thousand holes in the cheater’s arguments, but they become real to the cheater because that little sliver of truth is enough for them. And in order to live with herself she absolutely has to believe each one of them.

So when you confront her she rolls out her cheater excuses because they are literally the excuses she told herself as she betrayed your marriage and has convinced herself are real. You ask why didn’t she divorce you and just move on? Because she loved you. All those little excuses and justifications allowed her to reconcile what she was doing with the fact that she still loved you. It’s bizarre and warped but it’s the same warped internal logic that leads someone to go from “I’m against the US military killing innocent people” to “I’m going to bomb a recruiting station (and kill innocent people)”. You’re thinking she did this because she didn’t love me, when in reality she did this AND she loved you’

Think about it this way, if she didn’t love you she wouldn’t be the mess that she is right now, instead she would have just walked away and soaked you for all the money she could get. Now that everything has been exposed, not just to you, but to her, it’s impossible to reconcile these two contradicting ideas anymore, she can’t love you and betray you at the same time. That’s where the breakdown and emotional collapse come from, because without the self deception the lie can’t survive.

Now that the affair has been revealed she has to admit that she loves you, and her affair was a betrayal of that love. There’s no place to hide now. She has to come to grips with the realization that she isn’t the good guy here. She was never the hero. She’s been the monster all along. The image of herself she’s built up over her whole life, the thing that drives her sense of self worth and purpose, that is collapsing. Every lie, ever deceit, every act of sex she performed with that POS, tears down the whole rotten thing. She isn’t a good wife, as your looming divorce proves. She isn’t a good mother, as her angry, disappointed children can swear to. She certainly isn’t a God fearing, bible reading woman. Her friendships, her business, her dreams of travel and exploration are all gone. She wasn’t a smart, worldly, sophisticated woman; she let herself get tricked and lied to by a senior citizen for more than a year. Even her family is slipping away. Instead of all those things she told herself, now she has to admit that she’s a liar, a hypocrite, a cheater, a fraud and a fool, and quite Biblically, a sinner. She has alienated the people who love her and care for her. Her whole life has been a waste. She is nothing, and has nothing. These are her real truths now. Every self deluding lie that collapses brings her closer to this awful admission, so she clings to the few scraps of illusion she has left and hopes you don’t force her to fully admit the truth of what she’s done. Like a drunk or a junkie though, she needs to hit rock bottom before she can start getting better.

I’m not saying this so that you feel pity for her, she brought all this down on herself. She found herself in a hole, and instead of climbing out, or asking for help, just starting digging harder. She needs a kick in the proverbial balls, which is why I think you going the route that you have, however unwittingly, was the best one to take. Bit by bit her lies and self absolutions are being stripped away, and as awful as that is for her psyche, it is the best thing for her and your relationship with her. Like your pastor said, it takes time, and work, but if she really is committed, she’ll eventually get there. I really do wish you the best. Even if you two never reconcile, this is still the best thing for her (and I do hope that you two eventually reach some sort of forgiveness and understanding)

As for you, you really need to cut back on the drinking my friend and start taking care of yourself. This isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon. I didn’t know anything was going on with my brother and his wife until he really started drinking hard and literally wound up in a ditch. Other than some scrapes and bruises and a dented fender everything was okay, but it could have been a lot worse. Go to the doctor, tell them you’ve been under a lot of stress, you’re having trouble sleeping, eating, and you’ve been drinking a lot. Get your heart checked out. Men our age are more likely to die from a heart attack than just about anything else. Stress, lack of sleep, a bad diet, and heavy drinking just increase the risks. Yes I know you’re quarantined but you can do video conferences/appointments, or maybe something else. Start talking to someone now. It would suck for you to have gone through all of this just go tits up at the finish line.

Also, it sounds like you have an awesome support network to rely on, lean on that. Your mother in law has been through this, as had the older gentlemen the church sent to talk to you. There are also support groups for people who’ve been betrayed, though you may have to drive to a larger city for meetings. I’ve had my share of issues and honestly sometimes talking to people in person who have been in the same situation can be really helpful in shedding some of the pain you’re feeling.

That’s all I got man. Get some rest and take care of yourself.

Good luck and God Bless.

posts: 49   ·   registered: Sep. 15th, 2020
id 8587572
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masti ( member #54237) posted at 1:29 AM on Tuesday, September 15th, 2020

she never had any good answer other than she never wanted divorce. she probably doesn't have answer herself

She did it because she could. She felt entitled to that life. She only saw the fancy hotels and boats and wanted it. It was an exit affair and he kept on feeding her those dreams via personal trainers, flowers and gifts. She felt entitled to them. She really didn’t think about you or her children. That’s why she was stunned to find out that she was not in an exclusive relationship with him. That was the first time she had been drenched with ice cold water. Now she is scrambling to get it right so that she does not rule it all. IC will help her open her eyes even more if she is open to that process.

All the best AHG you stick to your path. It may not seem like it now but you are on the right track.

posts: 170   ·   registered: Jul. 19th, 2016
id 8587578
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 3:06 AM on Tuesday, September 15th, 2020

Her meeting this guy is literally like going rabbit hunting and running into a grizzly bear

Here we go again - the WW was really just a poor helpless victim. The poor thing!! Poor lil bunny! I agree with Thumos - this kind of thinking is actually misogynistic - that unfaithful women are poor helpless, harmless critters to predator men. B.S.! Women are fully capable humans who make their own decisions and ought to be held equally responsible for them - good or bad.

Think about it this way, if she didn’t love you she wouldn’t be the mess that she is right now

Ah yes. Now THAT is love! Please. It couldn’t be at all her trying to protect herself or her reputation. Couldn’t POSSIBLY be that she would be viewed oh so much better if AH takes her back, so the ‘community’ says to themselves, "see, not so bad - he did take her back after all". Nope. Couldn’t possibly be self-preservation driving this. She LOVED HIM THE ENTIRE TIME and the whole affair was simply her misguided attempt to show everyone what true love looks like, silly rabbit!

posts: 578   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8587609
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