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I’m sorry but she didn’t need to disclose that the AP kissed her tattoo every time they had sex, That crosses a line. That is just cruel.

Just in case you wonder, I'm reading all your comments. I apologize if I don't respond to every one of you, I'm not good at writing period and I'm new to this type for online forum. the level at which you are discussing every aspect of my story is so high sometimes I just keep following you like an outsider. today I'mm feeling so much better so i decided to chime in. In regard of the intention to humiliate me. let me tell you what the pastor said, although he was referring to the heat fixing incident but I think it could apply to the whole affair. when we brought up the subject of that incident she tried to interrupt me saying that she didn't mean to disrespect me at all, he instantly stopped her he told her the more you justify it the more you disrepect him. after he explained to her that men perspective is different from women's, he said something similar to what was said here, he said that when she woke up that day she didn't just said to herself today I'm going to disrespect my husband by making him drive 2 hours to fix the heat in my lover's cabin. that's not what she intended to do and that's what she was referring to when she was saying " she didn't mean to" but it doesn't have to be that to be considered disrespect. he agreed with me that it was so disrespectful and he said that she disrespected herself to in the process. that's the core of the adultery, you disrespect yourself, your partner in exchange of whatever excitement A provide. IMO same thing applies to humiliation, did she say to herself " let's humiliate AHGuy by doing such and such with the POSOM"? I don't think so but it doesn't matter the excitement of the A was what she wanted for that she wold humiliate herself and me and our kids too.

then he said something deep, he said no matter how bad the disrespect is, how I feel about it has nothing to with it ot with her, only me get to choose how it would affect me.

Things are quite at my end after a stormy Tuesday, but not on he side. looks like her Timeline brought up a lot of scolding from everyone I had to stand up for her and tell them to back off. it was mainly my daughter, my brother and her 2 sisters. they don't know what exactly was said in the timeline but they saw the devastation it left in both of us they assumed it was pretty bad. speaking of good intentions, these are people that have good intentions they just don't have your knowledge. MY brother, for example thinks That i should star getting out and meet new women. he even suggested one for me. he said the best way to get over a relationship is to start a new one.

I talked to the OBS, we are meeting later today for dinner. I warned her that the timeline was devastating for me she said at least you got one.

if I am not mistaken, in HA firt posts is stated that her WW was contenolating D before the A, and that the A prevented. she seemd very reluctant to work in R after her DDay, eventough OM DDay were time before.mayvevHSWW wanst brave enough to leave then and not now,and it doent mean that HA is what she wants!!

I was contemplating divorce too, both before my WH cheated and most definitely after. So was my WH. You could have knocked me over with a feather upon the realization that I was open to R... and I'm pretty certain he never expected to feel panicked at the thought of losing me. People aren't static, frozen in time with only one thought on their brains. We move through time like a leaf on a stream, changing our perspective as we go. What was true yesterday might not be true tomorrow. And I do think you're mistaken in the assertion that this WS wasn't cooperative early after DDay. From what the OP has posted, she seems genuine in her remorse and has already signed the separation agreement. She has no reputation to protect and no reason to lie about wanting her husband back. She already knows she's going to be okay financially and she's already dealing with the fallout of exposure. Further, AHGuy has been with her for her entire adult life. We can all see that he's a good guy, not some kind of knuckle-dragging monster, so it's a hard sale for me that she wouldn't want him back. It makes more sense that she does.

Again.... I'm NOT trying to influence a decision, but sometimes there's quite a bit of what looks like ganging up on this thread. Cheaters suck... while they're cheating. Some get better and some don't. Sometimes the cheating is a deal-breaker, and sometimes we surprise ourselves by realizing that it's not. The decision rests entirely with the OP. Nothing he decides is wrong as long as he's choosing for HIMSELF.

I’m sorry but she didn’t need to disclose that the AP kissed her tattoo every time they had sex, That crosses a line. That is just cruel.

Like I said she wasn't holding back. most of this wasn't on the written time line , I had to push her hard for it. she didn't mention anything about the tattoo in her timeline but when I asked her why she wants to remove it or change it she gave this look that I can't describe, putting her fist on her mouth then looked up toward the ceiling. It was clear something huge was about to come out then she tried to change the subject , I pushed more and she spilled the beans

then he said something deep, he said no matter how bad the disrespect is, how I feel about it has nothing to with it ot with her, only me get to choose how it would affect me.

In my neck of the woods we have a saying "An offence is not measured against the offender's intentions, but against the sensitivity of the offended". Whatever her intentions were, doesn't matter - she doesn't get to experience your pain. Strength, brother.

In regard of the intention to humiliate me. let me tell you what the pastor said, although he was referring to the heat fixing incident but I think it could apply to the whole affair. when we brought up the subject of that incident she tried to interrupt me saying that she didn't mean to disrespect me at all, he instantly stopped her he told her the more you justify it the more you disrepect him. after he explained to her that men perspective is different from women's, he said something similar to what was said here, he said that when she woke up that day she didn't just said to herself today I'm going to disrespect my husband by making him drive 2 hours to fix the heat in my lover's cabin. that's not what she intended to do and that's what she was referring to when she was saying " she didn't mean to" but it doesn't have to be that to be considered disrespect. he agreed with me that it was so disrespectful and he said that she disrespected herself to in the process. that's the core of the adultery, you disrespect yourself, your partner in exchange of whatever excitement A provide. IMO same thing applies to humiliation, did she say to herself " let's humiliate AHGuy by doing such and such with the POSOM"? I don't think so but it doesn't matter the excitement of the A was what she wanted for that she wold humiliate herself and me and our kids too.

I'm liking your pastor a good bit more, tbh. I was terribly put off by him when you got waylaid by the church group the first time. But what he's telling you coincides with what I know from my own experience and the many years I've studied affairs.

Things are quite at my end after a stormy Tuesday, but not on he side. looks like her Timeline brought up a lot of scolding from everyone I had to stand up for her and tell them to back off. it was mainly my daughter, my brother and her 2 sisters. they don't know what exactly was said in the timeline but they saw the devastation it left in both of us they assumed it was pretty bad. speaking of good intentions, these are people that have good intentions they just don't have your knowledge. MY brother, for example thinks That i should star getting out and meet new women. he even suggested one for me. he said the best way to get over a relationship is to start a new one.

I talked to the OBS, we are meeting later today for dinner. I warned her that the timeline was devastating for me she said at least you got one.

If you've not settled on an option yet, it's good that you let people know when they're too deep in your business. The ones who love us get really, really incensed on our behalf, God love 'em. But at a certain point, they need to trust that we've got it handled.

I don't disagree with your brother's advice in total, just the timing. It's not fair to you or to anyone you might meet if you're still raw, undecided, and on the fence. You would be wise to think it over and make sure a decision like that isn't reactive and that it's in keeping with your core values. For me, I would need a finalized divorce not to feel like I was married and cheating, but for others separation with the intent to divorce is emotionally comfortable enough. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying check in with your inner Jiminy Cricket before you do.

It's nice of you to share your findings with the OBS. Remember though that her hatred for your WW runs deep, much like your own for the OM. Be aware of that in your dealings with her. She will hurt your WW if she can.

She will hurt your WW if she can.

She will take the righteous action to avenge her pain upon your WW and annihilate her if she were at all able to. (Just thought I'd lend a bit more clarity to the statement).

AH, you are a far more forgiving man than I am. I would have let her [your ww] deal with all of the fallout that she brought upon herself with her choices and actions.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 6:59 AM, September 11th (Friday)]

AH

She didn't intend to humiliate him,because she never thought he would find out.

She was publicly dating another man,and everyone in her inner circle knew. Except her husband.H

HELLFIRE gave it to you exactly correct and easy to understand. They do not think they will get caught, and so the thought of humiliating you never enters the picture. You already said she told you that you were a side thought while this was going on.

I don't know after the pastor meeting and what Hellfire just wrote why you would need any more analysis of every word she said. You have the I guess PG timeline and it does not sound like you want the X rated timeline.

If I were you I would do the polygraph once you decide if you need any more discussion with her or more timeline information in order to verify the truth, especially the no other affair or physical sex with any other men.Four years from the time she started to go out with the girls and change her appearance and behavior is a long time to not attract male attention.

One thing that does also seem strange is that she apparently made no attempt to hide the flowers and cards every week so the entire office had to know something was going on. Yet she claims they always snuck off because they were careful not to hook up anywhere near where you lived. Very unusual to openly act like boyfriend and girlfriend , go out on double dates in public, and think that anyone who saw them or the flowers would never guess they were fucking.

Get off the humiliation by every act she did. It never entered her mind because you were not a factor, and its not unusual for a guy banging a married women to claim his prize by disparaging the unsuspecting husband.

Id read Hellfires post again. it puts it all in simple form.

I really think you should take a woman out to dinner. Be honest with her. Tell her some of your story.

Let her know that you’re very early in figuring out what to do. Obtain her perspective.

I really think that an openly intimate conversation with an empathetic woman (or more than one), without taking it any further might do you a world of good.

HA

There is one thing that your wife is doing very rigth. She is being honest!!! She is not proactiva, wont tell if you dont ask, not having iniciative to help you heal, but being honest is a huge thing!!!

Many others dont have a WS being this honest. It is not perfect, It may not be enougth, but I think you should give your WW credit for It.

It doesnt make what she did better or easyer to digest, not a bit! But shows she is trying

MY brother, for example thinks That i should star getting out and meet new women. he even suggested one for me. he said the best way to get over a relationship is to start a new one.

Your brother is right on the advice but wrong on the when. This should not happen now in your state.

Your emotions are too muddled up for you to be truly available and present with another woman. And that’s what another woman deserves.

Later would be great bc you will see what some of us have been saying — so many quality women out there and your WW now pales in comparison to them.

Good Morning AH

Glad to hear you feel a little better today. Affairs scare me due to the trauma, it can set of depression.

looks like her Timeline brought up a lot of scolding from everyone I had to stand up for her and tell them to back off

This is how I feel about many of the posts on SI. Again I am having a hard time seeing your WW as evil to the core. She was your loving wife for years and the mother of your children, your natural tendency is to protect her. You protected her by not filing under adultery and now with your family.

I believe she has done everything that is expected of a WW who wants to R. Sure some of it seems like she is scrambling and she has not been perfect. Even the couple incidents like, church people coming over (BTW I actually liked that), wanting to meet D and negotiating your meeting with the pastor. Those have become positives.

She has confessed to the church, the pastor, her family and to you.

She has found a good counselor in the pastor

She has quickly learned, like the D event she shut down immediately after understanding you

She has stopped the blameshifting

She answered your questions and is will to answer more

These are what SI looks for from a WS that desires R

She is still a human being, she deserves better than being tarred and feathered.

As much as I thought you should not have agreed to the no dating stipulation, do not fall into the trap of "the quickest way to get over a relationship is to get under another". You are not ready to date but you might be before the six month mark. Do not date for revenge.

If you want R your wife is showing every sign I can think of to accomplish it.

Respectfully,

Orgainic2003

I’m sorry but she didn’t need to disclose that the AP kissed her tattoo every time they had sex, That crosses a line. That is just cruel.

I'm going to disagree with this statement even though you already have AH. Even before I read your response to this I thought this was something she didn't want to do and, obviously now, she didn't. You had to push her to get this "confession" as I had to push and interrogate my XWW to get what I got. It wasn't given up voluntarily.

Nonetheless, your WW did tell you. She didn't have to but she did. She knew it would be detrimental to her. It's a move to being honest and authentic.

For me, I would need a finalized divorce not to feel like I was married and cheating, but for others separation with the intent to divorce is emotionally comfortable enough.

I agree with ChamomileTea. I felt and feel that I'm legally married until I'm legally not.

As a BH I wished disaster on the POS AP. However, the real issue was with my XWW. It was up to her to protect our marriage as it was my responsibility, too. She was to forsake all others as was I. She was the one who came home to me after being with him. She was the one who lied to me, gaslit me, etc.

He was a shit and I wished him the worst but she was the one who said she loved me and who I loved. Who I had children with. The one I thought was fully invested in our life now and in the future, especially when we were on the verge of accomplishing a marriage long goal. A goal she kept working toward while in the LTA.

ETA: I didn't finish this thought. Newly betrayed often direct a lot or most of their anger at the AP. AH, you haven't done this as far as I can tell. You can despise the AP and still focus on the betrayal from your "loved" one. If you can extract some revenge and help the OBS at the same time, so be it. If the OBS wishes the worst for your WW that's a consequence of your WW's own actions. So be it. Share with the OBS as she has helped you.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 8:42 AM, September 11th (Friday)]

The tattoo thing isn't adding up. Her reactions to you when you ask about it and him kissing it every time they meet. There's more to this then she is saying - IMHO. Just weird

He didn’t kiss it every time they met. He kissed it every time he fucked her. That’s why she is embarrassed and that’s why she held it back at first and that’s why she is making noises about having it removed.

Enough of that. Will everybody get off the dating encouragement. What is AH going to do? Go online, meet a stranger, take her to dinner and spend an hour going over how fucked up life is?

Or put the make on one of his customers?

Can you just stop? He is not ready

He didn’t kiss it every time they met. He kissed it every time he fucked her. That’s why she is embarrassed and that’s why she held it back at first and that’s why she is making noises about having it removed.

Enough of that. Will everybody get off the dating encouragement. What is AH going to do? Go online, meet a stranger, take her to dinner and spend an hour going over how fucked up life is?

Or put the make on one of his customers?

Can you just stop? He is not ready

IMO you've got two questions to answer (and only you can ultimately answer):

1 - do you trust her going forward?

We can provide lessons learned, or suggest what evidence you should look for or call your attention to certain things. However, you know her better and it's your life (weighing the reward vs risk) so the decision is ultimately yours.

2 - and even if you conclude that you do trust her, will you be happier long term if you divorce or stay married to her?

This is such a personal decision that I doubt anyone else's experience (with such a wide range of outcomes) is relevant. I suggest you get IC and take as long as you need (multi years if necessary) to be comfortable with your decision.

Finally, feel free to extent the separation period for another 6 months or until you feel your thoughts leveling out.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 9:12 AM, September 11th (Friday)]

looks like her Timeline brought up a lot of scolding from everyone I had to stand up for her and tell them to back off. it was mainly my daughter, my brother and her 2 sisters

WOW AH you have a great family, her sisters are upset with her too!, helping knock some sense into her. If my sister got involved in any women's affair she would be the go go girl. FYI she is a women's councilor, she is the reason I am so impressed by the pastor. So many of my sisters out there in the counseling world.

I assure you, if my sister was counselling your wife, YOU would be getting tarred and feathered. The blame would be put on you for your WW chouse.

AH,

I think that sometimes things need a few days to simmer. I'd avoid this forum, avoid her, avoid electronics as much as possible, and just think on thigs a bit.

The things about emotions are that there are physical indicators of them. Adrenaline and a bunch of stuff is shot into your body as a fight response to the unknown / fear. Give that stuff a few days to work out of your system so you can think with a clear head. Drink lots of water and exercise as much as you can, even if that is going for an extra long walk.

I had to stand up for her and tell them to back off.

Be careful to avoid any tendencies to white-knight for her.

Many a WW has manipulated their BH into defending them from criticism. Or rescuing them from the fallout of their actions. Sometimes you see them having a “breakdown” of some sort. This serves to trigger the BH’s natural instinct to protect. And the WW gets to shift themself into the victim position, instead of the perpetrator slot her actions landed her in.

It also serves as a reassurance that the BH is still emotionally invested. If you care enough to shield her, then it’s evidence that you still care for her. And right now she is clinging to anything that will give her hope.

Hope that she will not be a divorced cheater.

You wife is going to have to put on her big girl panties, and deal with her daughter’s anger. As well as the rest of the family.

She earned it. Now she can own it.

Good on you for sharing the timeline with the other BS. She needs to know what a real piece of shit her husband is.

Note if she does get super angry and wants to take some sort the revenge on you WW, remind her that you are going for an amicable divorce. And her rocking the boat will make it harder on you to accomplish that.