SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

By any chance, has your H read "More Than Two" by Franklin Veaux?

When Veaux wrote the book, he was hailed as a genius by the polyamory community for teaching people how to own their emotions and work through their jealousy. He followed it up with "The Game Changer," which is basically an account of a WH encouraging his OW to run roughshod over his wife's legitimate boundaries in the name of greater freedom and enlightenment.

When #MeToo started unfolding, Veaux's ex-partners started to come forward detailing the emotional abuse they had suffered by buying into his nonsense. Among them were the wife, the "game changer" OW, and the co-author of "More Than Two." The last has apologized to readers of the book for endorsing Veaux's "Your feelings are your flaws" agenda. (ETA: this is my paraphrase of his position, not hers or a quote from the book.)

I'm wondering if your H and/or your ex-GF are readers of Veaux, and either don't know about or are dismissing the history behind the books.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 10:46 AM, August 24th (Monday)]

She sounds like she might have wanted to help, but I could be reading into this too much.

You are absolutely right. Any disagreement she knew of during the relationship, she tried to help. She never took sides, alwsys tried to help Us each understand the other. She was not a bad person here, and she always declared she cared for both of us, and did NOT want to be the reason we had any issues.

Remove your husband from the picture, do you think she cares about your feelings?

I have always believed she did. However, I have not heard from her since the decision was made to seperate, since he moved out. I now question her feelings and motives. She knows what this did to me, she knows I'm hurting and not a word. Not only. Nothing on her part, but the last text I sent her, has gone unanswered. And she continues talking to H everyday. And has been out with him the once I know about. Her motives are suspect at this point.

I think he is fence sitting because he liked the threesome arrangement. Who wouldn't?

Absolutely right, and he's admitted this was something that made him happy.

So, where do you think 3SW wants to be? Does she want your husband or was she there for the 3 somes?

She was 100% there for the threesome, it was the perfect situation for her and she said so. I believe she had more feelings for me than I did for her. And he had more feelings for her than I did.

Trying to help see if you going 180 will just drive him into the arms of the 3SW more or if an alternative is to have her around for a good communication session because she will call you both on your BS and help you stay together.

Is she friend or foe?

I basically have. We only communicate regarding kids, house, finances. Im waaaay different today than a month ago. I was dancing the pick me as hard as I could. Seems like that pushed him further and further away. Emotion here comoletely turns him off and shuts him down.

A couple of months ago , she claimed she wanted to go away so she isnt the cause of the breakup. But the damage is done. And I said no because I didn't want him to blame me for his losing her as a friend. How ridiculous is that. Now, she may very well basically becime me. And I told her she didn't have to go away, it was a last ditch effort to make him see I'm not crazy or selfish. That I'm mature and capable, that he should stay. I think it was a mistake.

By any chance, has your H read "More Than Two" by Franklin Veaux?

Neved heard of this, he hasn't to my knowledge but he reads alot. I may ask him.

I told her she didn't have to go away, it was a last ditch effort to make him see I'm not crazy or selfish. That I'm mature and capable, that he should stay. I think it was a mistake.

I think it was a mistake too, and not just because of how your WH has turned on you.

You don't have to settle for a man you have to share. You get that, don't you? At that point, all he was offering you was half a man, and only if you behaved like it didn't bother you. And there you were, with a "damaged goods" self-view telling you that you didn't deserve more. I hope you're starting to see that you've been undervaluing yourself. Your inner pendulum had swung from selfish at the height of your affair to selfless at your lowest point in the thruple. A healthy ego needs to be somewhere in the middle, where you're valuing yourself enough to set and enforce boundaries regarding the treatment you'll accept from other.

Seriously though, spend some time thinking about the value you place in yourself. No one should have to share their spouse in order to keep them.

You don't have to settle for a man you have to share. You get that, don't you? At that point, all he was offering you was half a man, and only if you behaved like it didn't bother you. And there you were, with a "damaged goods" self-view telling you that you didn't deserve more. I hope you're starting to see that you've been undervaluing yourself. Your inner pendulum had swung from selfish at the height of your affair to selfless at your lowest point in the thruple.

You are absolutely right. He was offering me my half, but only if I could control my emotions about what he did with the other half. He was happy, and I wasn't. Now he's gone, and every day it gets more ok with me. I know I'm worth more than what he's giving me now. Waiting on my heart to catch up and really let go.

I bookmarked this after a poster I really admire put it in another thread...

Not to be flippant, but just as a reminder that your mind *and* your brain can eventually come to an agreement.

I love that, thanks chamomile

I AM TOO FULL OF LIFE TO BE HALF LOVED

I cannot and will not accept it.

👏👏❤️❤️👏👏

I'm glad you are starting to see where your heart and mind should be.

Sorry this 3SW isn't returning your calls/texts. It sounds like she might have been into replacing you with you husband, but it is tough to say.

What I will say is that sitting and waiting for someone to return doesn't make them return. You have to improve yourself continually and then when/if they want to comeback, you decide if they deserve this new better you.

You said you are very emotional. Have you tried to channel that into empathy? You said you know extremes of emotions, so you should be able to help guide people when they are in less extreme throws right? Instead of drowning with people, help them swim because you have drowned a before.

Just something I know helped one of my female friends who used to cry and get more emotional than the person telling their feelings. It made the person talking feel like they were unheard. I am sure you can understand that. So instead talk to them about how you have felt before and how you got out of it.

Good luck, and I hope that helps.

It sounds like she might have been into replacing you with you husband, but it is tough to say.

That's my current thought. She's either changed or wasn't genuine when she told me she would never do that to me. That she cared about me just as much as him. According to H, when I broke it up, I hurt her, so of course she feels differently about me. Bullshit in my mind, I said I needed that relationship to change, I didn't throw her away, I wanted to remain friends. Yea, that didn't work. But that's because of H.

You said you are very emotional. Have you tried to channel that into empathy?

Yes. Trying hard with this, I am working hard to consider things from his side, like a smart SI buddy told me too.

It made the person talking feel like they were unheard

Yes, I absolutely believe this happened in my M, I'm working hard in IC to change that. Getting better all the time.

Thank you for your thoughts, Doinbetter.

I've heard people say that humans are not wired to be monogamous, but I've never known of an open marriage to work either.

I've heard people say that humans are not wired to be monogamous, but I've never known of an open marriage to work either.

Interesting thought, and I agree. I've read about and watched alot of polyamory/ polygamy type things. Always drama and issues. But, after the breakup of my situation, I thought maybe it was me. What was wrong with me that I had such trouble inside it. I agreed to it, I had a good time for awhile. Looooved the attention and the man my H was while involved. But it got harder and less fun, and turned into a bad thing. And it didn't take long. Problem is, I was the only one it was bad for. Although, if you ask me, in hindsight... She wasn't being entirely truthful about her feelings regarding my husband. And I don't even blame her for having more feelings that she should have (or said she did or would)... He's a great guy. First man that ever treated her well. That's why I knew someone was going to get hurt. I honestly thought it would be her though. Yet as I type this, I'm the one hurting the most. Oops. That was a giant life lesson/ mistake. She was a giant mistake. I hope other WW's read my story and heed the warnings about offering 3somes and " free wild cards/ hall passes" and the like. Step carefully.

Bewuzzled,

You wrote, Looooved the attention and the man my H was while involved. But it got harder and less fun, and turned into a bad thing. And it didn't take long. Problem is, I was the only one it was bad for.

In real life what I've seen is that,the spouse or so who loves their partner more often compromises their values to make them happy, and get back the mutual love they once had as a couple.

Once the boundary is crossed however then two of the three have a stronger bond and the third person becomes superfluous.

We haven't had a threesome, but my GF, now W, did fall for my best friend a long while ago and I mentioned it but she said it was a bad idea. There is nothing particular I could point to, but I knew in my gut I was plan B. It felt very lonely.

Bewuzzled,

I am a BS, 8 years past the ending of a LTA. I agree your husband has placed you in a subordinate position with your concurrence, but I don't think you understand why. Despite all the work you may or may not have done on yourself, you are clearly tainted in your husband's eyes based on his actions. His behavior has been cowardly cake eating, holding you out as his partner while treating you with disrespect. You tolerate this aberrant behavior because on some level you believe this is what you deserve.

Also, the "Hall Pass" is more than a conscious effort to level the playing field. It is a selfish act to normalize a betrayal and ameliorate the cognitive dissonance of immoral behavior. (you feel less shame when you are both on the same level). Try to learn from this-

Honestly, there is nothing upon which to rebuild a relationship. Be grateful for the good times, forgiving of the failures and move on to share your love with the world. Kindest Regards-

Once the boundary is crossed however then two of the three have a stronger bond and the third person becomes superfluous.

Accurate. Sad but true

His behavior has been cowardly cake eating, holding you out as his partner while treating you with disrespect. You tolerate this aberrant behavior because on some level you believe this is what you deserve.

I Think this is what finally brought me to the last part of acceptance. Telling me all that time he just wanted his friend, she was no threat to me. And then proving me right, but without actually admitting it. That's it for me. Then he left me here alone, to cope with it all.

Also, the "Hall Pass" is more than a conscious effort to level the playing field. It is a selfish act to normalize a betrayal and ameliorate the cognitive dissonance of immoral behavior. (you feel less shame when you are both on the same level). Try to learn from this-

Correct, and definitely a hard lesson learned. It was flawed thinking at its finest and I regret all of it.

Without you as the hypotenuse, I wonder how long your STBX and the OW will last. Of the 3 people in this triad, it seems only you have been carrying the emotional burden.

Without you as the hypotenuse, I wonder how long your STBX and the OW will last. Of the 3 people in this triad, it seems only you have been carrying the emotional burden.

So true. I Was the only one with negative emotions during the relationship. H had some, but they were because I " brought all my problems to him" and " wouldn't work with him" and " put him in terribly difficult situations".

He says that I hurt both of them by ending it, which is when my emotional burden was eased and theirs began. Only, that's not true. Mine just changed, he left and my emotional burden shifted, but didn't go away.

I'm curious what will happen with them too. I believe he'll make her a dirty little secret. Since she was supposed to be my friend and everyone knew it, he's not gonna want his kids or family to look at him and question what happened here. The threesome was a secret. We were all three friends to those we know. What now.

RE: What now?

Honestly, what's wrong with telling everyone the truth?

Let the chips fall.

There truly comes a point where there's nothing left to lose.

RE: What now?

Honestly, what's wrong with telling everyone the truth?

This thought has occurred to me lately. It may actually come down to that. Would it be so bad, if our families knew the truth? The truth is supposed to set you free...