SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have stayed away from posting on this thread since the very early pages. It's with some trepidation that I am jumping back in and, in all fairness, I may not even be replying directly to the OP. Maybe it's just a means of saying my piece to an impersonal community.

I do NOT agree with how this was handled - and, apparently, from my inbox it appears that I'm not the only one. But I want to make sure that I am perfectly clear that it is NOT the pending divorce with which I disagree. SG has every right, of course, to make a decision and, if the affair was a deal-breaker, there is no question he should be divorcing. I think we ALL agree with that statement.

What I find difficult is someone giving NO CHANCE, indeed, hardly being RECEPTIVE, to reconciliation.

Before I go on I want to make sure that I understand that the OP had made it clear that cheating was deal-breaker for him. I get that. However, projecting that statement into the future when the reality of an affair is abstract - versus dealing with the issue when it actually happens - are two very different things. In the former, we all know that thousands of us have said, "If you ever cheat, we're done." But when the REALITY hits it often strikes another chord altogether.

So that being said, my point is that it takes a while to process an affair. From everyone's point of view. There are wayward spouses who never process what they've done and remain broken. There are wayward spouses who take a few months to realize the enormity of their actions and turn to recognize their awful behavior. Still others see the devastation they have caused and immediately turn around to deal with the root causes of why they did what they did. There are betrayed spouses who can NEVER get past the infidelity, others move on rather quickly.

This marriage was not 1-2 years old. It wasn't one where many of us say, "You're young, no kids, history of cheating...... Dude - run!" That's not the case here. SG has a long history here. Children to think about. Finances. It's not a simple, "I'm leaving."

So, all that being said, what I have not been able to understand from the get-go is how someone in a 20+ year marriage simply walks IMMEDIATELY away. A complete and total 180 degree turn with absolutely no consideration for his wife's remorse. Again, this doesn't mean that he eventually decides, "You know what? I can't do this anymore." THAT I get. There are times when I have been there. But to just turn around and walk away from someone you say you love wholeheartedly reeks of other questions. To ignore the fact that your wife is completely and utterly remorseful, hell-bent on proving her commitment despite her actions - is, truly, a shame. She did something awful. We all recognize that. But, you know what? A lot of people do things wrong in life and deserve a CHANCE - not necessarily a reconciliation - but a CHANCE at proving her worth.

When I add this to the fact that almost EVERY SINGLE POST includes some type of "dick in her mouth" or "damaged goods"-type comment... something is very funky about this story. We're not 14 year olds - most every one of us has some type of sexual history. I'm not sure how else to say this, and I don't want to make a comment that gets me in trouble here, but guys who continue to talk about their wife's sexual ACT, as if the sex itself somehow makes her a whore, I find to be, well, immature. Sorry.

I want for SG to move on with his life as that appears to be his primary focus. Hopefully his wife will continue to look into herself, find the reasons behind her behavior, and also move on. I hope their kids learn to recognize that people make lots of errors in life - it's how you respond to those errors that counts. I find it too bad that SG's wife never got to demonstrate her response.

Good luck to you - I needed to get that off my chest.

It's nice to meet you, Mrs. SpaceGhost007

Wow. Just wow. Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess but I've never seen anyone chastised for being decisive.

I don't know where you read that someone deserves a second chance but that is a myth. No one deserves a second chance at anything. Someone may give it out of grace but no one deserves it. His wife doesn't deserve anything. No straying spouse does. SpaceGhost did what countless other betrayed spouses are now suffering with because they didn't do. Make a decision based on HIS morals.....not hers. He took control of his life instead of it being dictated by her tears, her decisions, her emotions, or even his emotions for that matter.

I wouldn't say his solution is for everyone. However, given his mother's abandonment of her family, he had a greater than usual resolve in this area. It's his story and most of us applaud him in his decision. If he knows, as many do, that there will be no reconciliation, why would he be receptive to it? He knows he's not going to live with her again. Even couples who consider it, often just walk away eventually. Why waste time if you already know. That's ridiculous. In some situations, there IS NO CHANCE at recovery.

You reconciled with your wife for whatever reason. Most men don't. Like I said, your opinion is your opinion. But length of marriage has nothing to do with continuation of the marriage after infidelity. It has no statute of limitations either. An Italian couple just recently divorced after 77 years of marriage because she cheated.....during WWII. Doesn't matter when or how long, adultery kills marriages. If you want to continue in your marriage, fine. However, a husband or wife has every right to project their decision in the future if they so choose for only they know what is important to them. Only they know what is a deal-breaker.

Important things in life are NEVER to be taken lightly. Putting them at risk for some cheap thrills is NEVER a good idea.

Second chances are a gift, not something you're entitled to, sometimes life does give you a second chance, sometimes it doesn't. That's why you have to try your best at all times.

THAT's a great lesson to be learned...

LIS, for some people an affair is a dealbreaker, both in the abstract and in practice. SG007 seems to be one of those. His kids are adults. Finances allow both of them an independent life. And if you read the thread carefully, there was perhaps a smidgeon of a chance for R from SG's side, but WW blew it up with her actions post D-Day.

In any case, I think you're placing an undue burden on betrayed spouses. Not everyone can, will or has to give reconciliation a try. I've been cheated on once and tried R. I've learnt my lesson to never try R again. For SG, this was a dealbreaker, and I respect him for acting in accordance with that. Again, his kids are adults.

Best wishes to you in your situation!

t/j

@LifeisCrazy

So, all that being said, what I have not been able to understand from the get-go is how someone in a 20+ year marriage simply walks IMMEDIATELY away. A complete and total 180 degree turn with absolutely no consideration for his wife's remorse. Again, this doesn't mean that he eventually decides, "You know what? I can't do this anymore." THAT I get. There are times when I have been there. But to just turn around and walk away from someone you say you love wholeheartedly reeks of other questions. To ignore the fact that your wife is completely and utterly remorseful, hell-bent on proving her commitment despite her actions - is, truly, a shame. She did something awful. We all recognize that. But, you know what? A lot of people do things wrong in life and deserve a CHANCE - not necessarily a reconciliation - but a CHANCE at proving her worth.

I hear ya Life. Let me first state that I'm very pro R. I would love to have seen some remorse in my situation as a betrayed child growing up. That was not in my mother's NPD cards. That said, SG did grow up in infidelity. While I cannot speak for SG, I can speak for myself as someone who has grown up in infidelity and spent way too much time there on the front lines as a teenager and young adult. .

For me personally, growing up and watching everything that my family went through, I could not approach R with MrsYop. I watched my father do the pick me dance for 5 years, I watched him be emasculated, I had to hear their HB, I was the one that exposed my mother's A on dday1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...too many to count. At the age of 18 I was going to notify the OBS and researched my mother's AP's family until my father caught wind of it and told me that the OBS already knew and was sticking her head in the sand. On dday 1 I had to physically get in my father's way to prevent him from going after AP with my little league bat. I watched mass confusion in my house and a toxic environment explode on one day and they next all lovey dovey HB back to toxic explosion again. I saw the life drain out of my father on dday 1. For all intensive purposes I lost the person that was my father on that day. Finally, I associate my brother's suicide to that time period of my life as we lost sight of what was going on with him because of everything else A related going on in our house. My brother's suicide was also very public and there was a school situation with his suicide where we couldn't pursue a lawsuit because the defence for the school would use my mother's A against our family house depicting the environment my brother and I were in. They would have been right. I could go on and on here but you get the idea.

MrsYop is a member here and has conversed with some of the BW's about MIL's with NPD. Since MrsYop is a member here and reads here, not to mention follows my posts, we have had many many discussions about infidelity, boundaries, and most importantly our M together. We have been married for 15 years and my entire life is wrapped up in her and my 3 kids. After everything I have been through in my life, she knows that I would be gone in an instant if she were to partake in infidelity. We had conversations about this all the way back to when we were dating. She knows this about me. I just could not do it even if I saw more remorse than ever before in history of a WS. I could not go through all of that again and also have the emasculation/sex issues thrown at me as well. For me, if that hypothetical were to happen, I would have to D or it would break me to stay. I already know this about myself. I have even discussed this scenario in IC. The only way for me to survive infidelity a second time would be to get out like I did the first time. As hard as it was for me to do, I have emotionally divorced my mother and I am now NC with her. It has been one of the mentally and emotionally healthiest choices of my life (granted she is NPD).

I cannot speak for SG or anyone else for that matter, but if someone has already seen a lot of infidelity in their life, it most assuredly is a driver for them to get out of infidelity one way or the other. This wasn't SG's first time at the rodeo. Sometimes, for some people, going through infidelity again becomes a zero tolerance policy.

end t/j

yop

He said cheating was a deal breaker. He said divorce would happen if she cheated.

She cheated anyway.

He did what he said he would if she cheated.

She chose to cheat and lie about it.

SG followed through with what he said he would do.

She made a choice to throw away their 20 year plus marriage already knowing the consequences.

What about this do you not understand.

Life is crazy,

Don't ever feel too tepid or muzzled here because you views may differ from others. All ahve a right to their opinion.

I say this, naturally while disagreeing with yours but it is interesting to hear different viewpoints on these subjects.

I believe Hobbes is correct. SG seemed to leave a small window open for her IMO but she blew it. I understand denial and why people deny that they performed catastrophic actions to their beloved ones. However, even moreso, I understand being cheated on (because it happened to me)and then being lied to as well. Like Hobbes, I tried R once and it will never happen again. SG had tighter boundaries and zero was the answer as it should have been for me too. My boundaries are as tight as his are now.

I disagree that it takes a while to process. Some like to process. However, with others, they realize that they can't play hockey with one arm.

To SG, it was a clean break. No kids left, assets could be split and he was off. It is as close as it gets to being young with no kids and no assets.

20 years is hard to walk away from. 20 years is even harder to deal with when you've been betrayed by someone who you held in such high esteem for that long. There are so many stories on this page with people who wait until the kids go off to college and then they go out and cheat. It is a disease and it's sickening. He was right to bolt fast. because the more he waited, the more he could have changed his mind, the more likely he was to stay with someone he considered 'damaged goods' and I'm sorry but she was. Regarding his statements about dick in the mouth etc... he is still triggering or angry and has the right to be so.

He will be better off and I hope she recovers.

I understand what you are saying Lifeiscrazy, I disagree though

[This message edited by Western at 2:28 PM, June 1st (Monday)]

I'll sort of agree with LifeIsCrazy in that if someone is divorcing now because of what they said they would do back then, then that is not a good reason in and of itself. There's thinking of how you will feel, and then there's feeling it. You don't want to let your own past words and avowals trap you.

In this case, it appears SG had time to process the affair, he just did it before letting his wife know he knew. He also knew in advance (thanks to this site) pretty much all possible explanations she might use, and none of them were good enough.

The statistics of affairs point to the other thing happening. People vow they are going to do whatever it takes to move forward, but then a year or two down the road of slogging through the affair learn that "whatever it takes" doesn't exist. There are things that can't be overcome. It's kind of like cutting your arm off with a chainsaw. That thing ain't growing back.

We're not 14 year olds - most every one of us has some type of sexual history.

Try as I might, I simply can't be bothered by any thoughts of my wife's sex life prior to becoming my partner. It just holds zero power over me. Conversely, try as I might, I can't pretend that my wife having sex with another man while married to me isn't deeply, deeply disturbing.

It's just something unique about us humans and our relationships.

Thank for your update Spaceghost-

YOU DID THE RIGHT THING AND WILL show you why

She told me every detail I wanted to know about the affair.

Yes but with a twist (She is trying)

She said she was sitting at work the day she was served thinking about me. She said she had a life women would kill for and she was thinking about what she was doing. She had a man who she thought was so handsome and good to her why would she jeopardize her marriage for her OM? She said she was smiling thinking about how much she loved me

.

-This is Manipulation (An attempt at it) She was thinking about you right? OM was her boss at said job, yet it was you on her mind?

She then was called to the front where she was served divorce papers. She said the second she knew what was happening she fell to the ground. She was on the ground crying in front of her workers and they did not know why. Almost all of her co-workers came over to her and they all thought someone had died and she just found out.

Kind of dramatic but sounds like more manipulation (look see how much this hurt me), or an attempt at it with a little bit of guilting you or trying to

She said she felt her life was over at that point. She thought about ending her life for a while. The fact that I was not there to talk with her was eating her alive.

How can you do this to ME?

Her friends and her also talked about this and they make life seem like a romance movie. Like I was supposed to come back in and try and fight for her from the OM. She started wondering if I even loved her if I could just toss her away.

-See how could you do this to her? I mean didn't you love her? This is dangerous because it leads into a slippery slope to blame shifting and her worthless friends only enable it.

Then she started to realize that I was a man of my word who had told her this would happen and it was her own fault for what happened. She also started hating herself since it was all her own fault. Everyone who knows thinks she was an idiot.

-her backwards way of trying to tell you what she "thinks" you may "want" to hear.'

I don’t think my wife knows why she did it.

-No and she won't awhile because the pity party is only getting started.

it was a man who showed her attention and she liked the feeling of dating again.

-She was starved for affection you did not give her, again this leads to blame shifting her actions are hers alone.

My wife could have had much better looking men or better built men so it does not make any sense to me.

-A much better looking man would not have wanted her for the full time, you are a much better looking man and are dropping her, the OM is ugly but wealthy, he would not drop her, in fact he would be super grateful and worship a broad like her. Hypothetical situation, OM and wife split, and assuming marital assets division still keeps him wealthy and he continues to worship your wife do you think she would marry him? or could? Think quality of life

We talked a little about that and I asked her if she was excited to get to date other men now. She looked at me with disgust on her face and said she is not going to date anyone. She asked how I could even think that about her. I said to her that she was dating another man while we were married so I am sure it wouldn’t be a problem for her now that she was going to be single.

-You answered this perfectly

M

y wife was not in love with the OM. So to her although what she was doing was wrong she did not think it was as bad since she never told him she loved him. And listening to her talk I realized that women and men are from different planets. She said telling someone you love them that is not your spouse is far worse than having sex with them in her eyes.

-This is a sad attempt at minimizing, and sadly trying to rationalize. See "I only ever loved you I just let him penetrate me"

I told her she can tell every man she sees every day that she loves them. They are just words and unless backed up by actions mean nothing. So I told her for a man letting him stick his thing in her body was far worse than anything she could do to me. Of course she sees this now but again too late.

-Again perfectly said, and her "she sees it not but too late, no its that you caught her off guard with that, and has no rebuttal, so must concede to your point.

So now my new life is different. It is not better but I hope one day that it is better. I am not a party animal or anything like that but I have met a couple of nice women and I have been having some fun and I will leave it at that.

-Bro come out to the West Coast, Florida Sucks this time of year anyways. (I'll be there in a few days PM and I will tell you where we get a beer if you want) You are not a party animal and dig Golf, come to the Central Coast, coast to start over. Golf here is plentiful weather is nice year round, no humidity....and it is real laid back, close to wineries, and Close enough to major cities....... (Just a thought)

I am going to Individual Counseling to help me heal also.

-Again perfect

There has to be consequences to cheating so if you are going to do it then you have to be willing to pay the price.

-Well said

Still golfing

Come to the Central Coast bro, seriously right now the heat and humidity in Florida is no fun.

eric1, you da real MVP!

Like LIC I dip my toes carefully into this cesspool…

SG did what he felt he needed to do. But I can’t really see from his last post that he feels happy, content or in a good place.

I tried repeatedly to tell him that R or D was fine, only he had to be content with his decision.

I repeatedly told him that there was no shame in changing from D to R or from R to D. As long as each decision was based on evaluating in a realistic way the situation, planning based on that info, implementing the plan and then evaluating the reaction. The key word being realistic and honest to oneself and CONSTANTLY asking “am I moving out of infidelity?”

I have to say that very early on this thread drew in a very committed D-cheering crowd. One that more or less eliminated any option for SG other than D. I think way too often people forget that this site was founded by a couple that managed to reconcile and that many of our mods and guides are reconciled. There is no shame in R, no admittance of weakness or no “loosing” some perceived battle in R. Not any more than is in D. It’s just plain and simple the only two realistic ways out of infidelity and BOTH should be open for us if we want to and if we have that option.

It’s a bit like if SG had been driving his car in pitch-black darkness at ever-increasing speeds in uncharted areas. Way too many IMHO goaded him on to drive faster, to hold his course and that he was showing real balls in being so committed to driving fast in the dark. Some of us suggested slowing down, wait for some light, maybe even steer away from potential cliffs. OK – so SG made the drive and managed to get to some sort of destination without driving off a cliff or without crashing too badly. But to ME it sounds as if he’s not so sure where he is, whether he wants to be there and whether he wants to be alone.

Finally – SG: If you want to be single then fine. No problems. But work on being happy. With or without your wife then your own personal happiness is completely dependent on you and the work YOU do to make it so you are content with where you are.

Nah... Spaceghost, you've done right by yourself. She doesn't deserve squat. Not a second chance..zip.

Why you're getting raked over the coals I will never know. This forum is for opinions and advice, you can either listen or wholly disregard.

You did what you had to do. God speed with your new life!

Bigger-

I respect your insight and thank you for posting on this, I am not to trying to derail this thread.

But I feel that alot of people who stay to work it out always say "If it wasn't for the kids" or "if it wasn't for a temporary financial situation"

It's almost as if a BS is afraid to admit that they stayed because they loved their Wayward.

SG situation is basically-

-No Kids

-Dividing Marital Assets pretty easy (state where he divorcing) ( ia m guessing Texas no sure I could be wrong as his immediate response was to bail to Florida (as a former Floridian would not be my choice for a fresh start.)

So every one has him like "Oh he is so lucky" also his kids are old enough to know what happened and pick his side (Thats another F U to the WW btw, even though it shouldn't happen that way it does)

Their was a smidgen of possible R, but her post discovery antics like going out with low level bar slut friends on a triple date was the nail in the coffin.

I agree though, that the dust is finally settling that SG is starting to see the long term, but at the same time he concentrated efforts on "acting" vs "thinking."

He is a computer guy, Techie, I am going to go out on a limb that his thought process is Analytical....So it is 2 + 2 = 4, and it will always be 4. I think early on his life with his mom stuff, he decided Adultery = Divorce, and it has always equaled divorce, so no he must act accordingly.

I think deep down compartmentalized he loves his STBXW, I also think he should try to be atleast cordial to her the Divorce. Right now they have kids together, they will have grandchildren some day.

Regarding R someone posted:

Most men don't

^^^that is because most WWs can't get out of the fog in time, if ever. A lot of women can put too much stock into an emotional reality.

I think "spaceghost" could become a verb, at least in my own vocabulary. But maybe too here on SI. Something for us to consider, anyway.

As in: "I caught my [WH, WW, WSO] cheating, and I am sticking to my principles...I'm gonna spaceghost."

Thanks, spaceghost, for sharing your update. I enjoy your communiques, the way you put things, and your straightforward way of telling your story. I am sorry that you have gone through this, and I can hear from your post that it is still not easy and you so wish you had what you thought you had in your marriage. These things are so sad for all of us.

Like others, I would like to encourage you to be open (though I should be saying this to myself really, and I can't even begin to go there, at this point) to a committed relationship, because you sound like a really great guy and like you have a lot to offer someone. I hope you find each day a little better. Thanks again for letting us know how you are doing.

Thanks for the update spaceghost.

As for the great debate on R or D. I have always maintained what the betrayed wish to do. For me, if R is the goal than advise to take control and etc.. follow and so on to make sure the betrayed are in the best position to do so.

If D is the goal, it is a different set of advise.

I do think it is best to gauge what is the direction the betrayed wants to go and then NEEDS to go to achieve it.

I do see however many cases where the betrayed have their own form of fog, many seek R and do so many times blindly and end up in worse situations, prolonged pain and so on.

Sometimes we do need to call a spade a spade when the wayward is too far gone. So many times we see many of the betrayed come back here and say "you were right."

We should not debate D or R but help the betrayed in every case take control, rebuild themselves and make a new life from that point whether it includes the wayward or not.

I for one do believe SG is as good as can be, one can question it as Bigger, but whether one is in the process of R or D, I remind myself that no matter the direction, Infidelity is one of the biggest catastrophes to fall upon an individual and cannot be emotionally solved overnight.

Much like SG I was married for 25 years together for 33. I have worked overseas from South America to South East China to the Middle East with major oil companies.

My WW never wanted for nothing. She was my everything. But we also agreed that cheating was the end if it ever happened and we just laughed about it cause it would never happen right. Wrong it did.

I did not give one second thought to R. I moved immediately to D. I left NA and moved to the tropics. I do not regret my decision. I do have tough times now and then but they are becoming less frequent.

As with SG and a lot of other members in this club no one wanted to join when a WS has decided to bed their AP then they in my mind they cannot be in love with their SO. I don't give a crap about the fog, mistakes, bad decisions, childhood traumas,loneliness, slick APs or multitudes of other excuses WS use to explain away their betrayal. What afetr 33 years my WW forgot how to talk.

The woman I loved faithfully for 33 plus years threw it all away because she wanted a strange dick not her H. Maybe some guys can live with that realization, but me much like SG lost what we believed we had (A Good Marriage)through no fault of our own. So I moved on for myself.

What I find difficult is someone giving NO CHANCE, indeed, hardly being RECEPTIVE, to reconciliation.

Interesting. R is not a given and no WS deserves R. Not one WS deserves the right to have a BS that is willing to R. Period. R is a gift and most times that gift is shat upon. Most people are not RECEPTIVE to years of pain, TT, minimizing etc. Most people are not RECEPTIVE to the reality they were cheated on while they chose to be faithful.

This marriage was not 1-2 years old. It wasn't one where many of us say, "You're young, no kids, history of cheating...... Dude - run!" That's not the case here. SG has a long history here. Children to think about. Finances. It's not a simple, "I'm leaving."

You took the words right out of my mouth except I would change "I'm leaving" to "I'm going to fuck another man". SG did not throw away the marriage; that is all on his WS. He simply filed the paperwork after she CHOSE to decimate him.

When I add this to the fact that almost EVERY SINGLE POST includes some type of "dick in her mouth" or "damaged goods"-type comment... something is very funky about this story. We're not 14 year olds - most every one of us has some type of sexual history. I'm not sure how else to say this, and I don't want to make a comment that gets me in trouble here, but guys who continue to talk about their wife's sexual ACT, as if the sex itself somehow makes her a whore, I find to be, well, immature. Sorry.

Is it just as immature when a BW says this of her WH? Or when it is a BS talking about the AP? Read in the General Forum and it is clear this is SOP for the betrayed. Nothing he said is untrue, he just did not choose to pretty up the language and make palatable. She did what she did and now she has consequences.

Why are we beating up SG for making his decision?

SG did not make the decision to end his marriage. His WS did that the day she chose to betray him and the marriage. Filing the paperwork did not end this marriage; infidelity did.

But length of marriage has nothing to do with continuation of the marriage after infidelity. It has no statute of limitations either.

Wise, wise words.

I too don't understand why anyone would beat up on SG for his decision. I didn't have a chance to reconcile but in retrospect I'm glad I didn't. I;m now in a much better relationship and if he wants that he will find it too. For LIC and Bigger and anyone else questioning his decision? It's easy to judge when you're not in the middle of the shitstorm.

[This message edited by total idiot at 11:02 AM, June 2nd (Tuesday)]