SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

AH, my XWW said to me to remember all of the great times we had together and as a family. I asked her why I should remember now when it didn't matter a damn to her. I was also told I was an abusive shit that drove her away from me but we had these great times and to not give up on marriage and she didn't want a divorce. Why would she want to stay with me when I'm such a shit?

I expected I would have a long and satisfying marriage. It's a family trait on both my mother and father's sides of the family. I never wanted a divorce. I never got what I needed in order to attempt R. In effect my XWW broke the marital contract. I think an LTA might be harder to reconcile from than a shorter one. I could be wrong about that. Given the situation I would have had to have that sour shit sandwich taste in my mouth in order to stay with her.

It didn't matter to me that she suddenly (actually not so suddenly) valued what we had together. It didn't get real for her that I could tell until I was pushing real hard to separate so I could divorce. By that time all the sand had run out of the timer. Done.

How was your WW valuing your marriage in the 6 years proceeding DDay? Now it's worth preserving? Now the 3 decades of relationship are worth fighting for? When someone shows you who they are believe them.

To R or D is your decision, AH. I know you are more than leaning to D. If there is anything that is giving you pause you might want to watch and consider. Where I am D takes some time. You can file and still consider before there is a divorce decree. You don't owe her R or the attempt to R. It is a gift of massive proportion from the BS. D is a legitimate outcome, too.

then she said if divorce is what I want she won't fight me for anything and trusts that we would be fair to each other.

Ok, so you have decided to D, now full steam ahead with it, start with the separation of assets immediately and present it to her and your attorney, tell her you want to keep 100% of your business and that she'll keep 100% of her real estate partnership/income, no alimony or child support and go from there, the rest can be split 50/50, you should take advantage of the her "guilty state of mind" that she's in right now, it may not last long (we've seen it before), remember D can be stopped at anytime if you later change your mind, you may even want to date her again once the ink is dry and your protected financially, that is of course if you at some point want that and you want to give her that opportunity, at that time you may even want to date other women to see what's out there and she may have to throw her hat in the ring.

The difference between what my XWW first said she would accept and the end result was light years apart. It took too long from that offer until the agreement to go forward with the Separation Agreement. We had a formal partnership in the ranch that had to end with the separation agreement. It was the splitting of assets that made the substantial change. Half the land is gone. My XWW's lawyer told her she could go after even more. Just a heads up, AH. Move fast.

Well, I do work a lot of hours but she used to to work long hours too. yes I admit I work a lot but not as much I used too. Before I had my own business I worked full time and lot of overtime and always had side jobs lined up, she never complained. I still came home every evening and made dinner most of the nights. Last 6 years she started complaining saying that we have enough money to live comfortably so no need for me to kill myself, I did reduced my hours and hired 3 guys including my own son. she wanted to go out and travel to Europe and stuff she complained that we never take summer vacations, Keep in mind we've always taken a vacation in October, and February just the 2 of us (hunting/ skiing) and we've been spending Christmas in Florida since my parents moved there 17 years ago.

yes she asked for marriage counseling, but that was when she started going out with her friends for drinks and nights out. so I thought she was acting childish and didn't pay attention. I know now I should have.

DO NOT regret this and fall for her attempt to blame shift. Think about it - you did everything she asked outside of MC. As soon as she said you worked too much, you reduced your hours. You were already taking her on multiple vacations. At any point she could have said, "Hey, let's go to Europe instead of hunting/skii'ing this year," and you probably would have agreed and tried to make it happen. And most importantly - WHILE she was complaining that she didn't get enough time with you, SHE was choosing to have even LESS time with you in order to go out drinking with friends. Seriously, what sense does that make? If you felt your marriage was lacking and on the rocks, would YOU have decided to make it worse by going out all the time? Probably not. So no, she does not get to play the victim and claim she was neglected and you work too much when she squandered and blew through the time that YOU made FOR HER with partying.

My guess is that she wasn't with her girlfriends as much as she wants you to believe. We see it here all the time - BIG complaints about the marriage and yet the WS is choosing every opportunity to run out and not spend time with their BS all the while complaining that they never spend any time together. It's because they're seeing an AP and attempting to throw blame for the state of the marriage on to the BS. Look at this way - you did such a good job of making time for her that she HAD to run out to party in order to make your marriage look worse than it was and justify seeing an OM on the side. Maybe the one you know about or maybe one you don't know about but this is classic wayward behavior. Start an argument over nothing so that you have an excuse to storm out and see/call AP while making the BS feel like it's their fault. MC wasn't going to fix that and even you seemed to know deep down you were getting a raw deal otherwise you would have gone to MC too and done more if you believed you were truly in the wrong and the marriage was at stake.

Furthermore, if you're such an unreasonable, neglectful spouse who refuses to work on the marriage, why the hell would she be begging to stay married to you? How could she even type that out and re-read it 4 times in her email with a straight face only lines away from her saying she will do whatever it took to keep you and the awful, terrible, no good marriage that made her cheat? Makes no sense at all because it's not true in the slightest and I bet on some level, she has to know that. She has to realize that even if she did feel neglected and unheard in her marriage, it was wrong of her to "punish" you with going out and cheating because if she truly wanted more time with you, she wouldn't have been actively avoiding it. But she can't admit that to you, to her pastor, or to anyone else because then she looks like the awful, no good wife who manufactured a marriage crisis out of common, solvable marriage issues in order to sleep with OM despite that being exactly what she has done. And she's not going to suddenly admit it just because she got called out on saying, "I take responsibility but here's all the reasons I think you are really to blame." So either she believes she still has a leg stand on when she spins these tales or she's too proud to admit how badly she fucked up and wants to take you down a peg too. Can you imagine how that talk with the pastor went? Like she just accidentally contradicted herself and told a minimized and glossed over narrative about your pre-A/beginning of A struggles by MISTAKE?

Full steam ahead, AHG. This is not enough from her for you to change your course.

begged not to give up on a 3 decades relationship,

She is using something called the sunk costs fallacy. Look it up

she said she knows she fucked up, she again said what she texted me yesterday

This has already been said but this is merely another version of “it was a mistake” - a 2 year affair in which she intentionally cuckolded and humiliated you and had fun at your expense laughing about it behind your back is not a “fuck up” - it is utter disregard and cruelty and contempt over the course of more than 700 days of countless decisions and choices and deliberate actions.

So many actions and choices it would be difficult to count them all.

now just think about that in contrast to her saying she “fucked up.” It’s insulting and absurd and manipulative for her to say that.

I know you are set on a course of action. Do not deviate.

Look AH, let’s say she is able to convince the church community she was just a lost innocent girl in the woods who strayed and somehow you are painted out to be the bad guy.

And? So? it doesn’t matter bc you will be free of this harridan harpy and living a different life. One without her other than the co parenting piece.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:57 PM, August 2nd (Sunday)]

she left for some church activities and sent me a pictures from the event with her friends.

Now that you have made your decision you should let her know that these pictures are not required. Remind her that for two years when she was sending different type of pictures to the OM while she never sent you a copy.

As everyone suggests you should negotiate and file quickly while she regrets being caught. Also be prepared for her resuming her relationship with OM post divorce.

You are a good man and we all know you will emerge stronger and better.

You know yourself and your life best but the fact that's it a long term affair plus the incredibly sickening and disrespectful heating incident, it is just RICH that she wants the marriage now. It is waaaaay to late for those words to mean anything especially since she would still be seeing him if she didn't get busted.

Divorce while she is still in damage control mode and then take your time deciding how much of a chance you want to give her. It will be very telling if she continues to do any self improvement work knowing you're divorcing her. My guess would be she won't. I'm sorry you're hurting but you're being incredibly strong and making good decisions. Do what your lawyer advises and she can show her remorse by allowing you to keep your house and business.

AH, my XWW said to me to remember all of the great times we had together and as a family. I asked her why I should remember now when it didn't matter a damn to her. I was also told I was an abusive shit that drove her away from me but we had these great times and to not give up on marriage and she didn't want a divorce. Why would she want to stay with me when I'm such a shit?

I expected I would have a long and satisfying marriage. It's a family trait on both my mother and father's sides of the family. I never wanted a divorce. I never got what I needed in order to attempt R. In effect my XWW broke the marital contract. I think an LTA might be harder to reconcile from than a shorter one. I could be wrong about that. Given the situation I would have had to have that sour shit sandwich taste in my mouth in order to stay with her.

It didn't matter to me that she suddenly (actually not so suddenly) valued what we had together. It didn't get real for her that I could tell until I was pushing real hard to separate so I could divorce. By that time all the sand had run out of the timer. Done.

How was your WW valuing your marriage in the 6 years proceeding DDay? Now it's worth preserving? Now the 3 decades of relationship are worth fighting for? When someone shows you who they are believe them.

To R or D is your decision, AH. I know you are more than leaning to D. If there is anything that is giving you pause you might want to watch and consider. Where I am D takes some time. You can file and still consider before there is a divorce decree. You don't owe her R or the attempt to R. It is a gift of massive proportion from the BS. D is a legitimate outcome, too.

Steadychevy, our stories are similar in many ways, me too I wanted long marriage, and no one in my close family had divorced before. My parents will be hurt by it too.

where I'm D could take from 3 months to 2 years, nothing will beat me more than a long nasty Divorce That's why I'm looking for a consensual no-fault and be done in few months.

you should take advantage of the her "guilty state of mind" that she's in right now, it may not last long (we've seen it before)

The difference between what my XWW first said she would accept and the end result was light years apart. It took too long from that offer until the agreement to go forward with the Separation Agreement. We had a formal partnership in the ranch that had to end with the separation agreement. It was the splitting of assets that made the substantial change. Half the land is gone. My XWW's lawyer told her she could go after even more. Just a heads up, AH. Move fast.

I really don't care, the D will be devastating in all ways.I will mourn the end of my marriage more than any dollar, I would like to keep my business going for my pride not for financial reasons, I'm very fortunate because I can find a job tomorrow if I want to.so even if it goes to the worst case scenario I will be OK, I will be 46 or 47 tears old bu then but with money on my pocket, multi skills and good reputation. I will have to start all over, professionally and emotionally.

You were already taking her on multiple vacations. At any point she could have said, "Hey, let's go to Europe instead of hunting/skii'ing this year," and you probably would have agreed and tried to make it happen

that really sucks, because she slept with him for the first time when she didn't want to go with me to Canada because we were supposed to go to Ireland. it was a miss understanding, she told me she tried of those kind of trips wanted to go to Ireland, I told her we'll think about it but never confirmed, she claimed that I told her we would be going ther. when October came I had already payed for my stay in Canada and that made her so upset, I told her it was a misundertanding and it was too late to cancel she didn't want to go with me instead she spent that week with him and had sex with him twice.

My guess is that she wasn't with her girlfriends as much as she wants you to believe. We see it here all the time - BIG complaints about the marriage and yet the WS is choosing every opportunity to run out and not spend time with their BS all the while complaining that they never spend any time together. It's because they're seeing an AP and attempting to throw blame for the state of the marriage on to the BS. Look at this way - you did such a good job of making time for her that she HAD to run out to party in order to make your marriage look worse than it was and justify seeing an OM on the side. Maybe the one you know about or maybe one you don't know about but this is classic wayward behavior. Start an argument over nothing so that you have an excuse to storm out and see/call AP while making the BS feel like it's their fault. MC wasn't going to fix that and even you seemed to know deep down you were getting a raw deal otherwise you would have gone to MC too and done more if you believed you were truly in the wrong and the marriage was at stake.

like I said before, this forum opened my eyes to many things and this is one of them. never thought about it till I read it here,she could have had other affairs just didn't get caught. thinking about it she was good at covering her tracks and if it wasn't for a private investigator she would have got away with it.

Look AH, let’s say she is able to convince the church community she was just a lost innocent girl in the woods who strayed and somehow you are painted out to be the bad guy.

And? So? it doesn’t matter bc you will be free of this harridan harpy and living a different life. One without her other than the co parenting piece.

Thumos, you have been a great supporter since, I joined this forum, thank you.

I really do not give a F about what people in our church think about me, pastor she's been talking to tried to reach out to me many times talk to him once and just ignored him after that. they have no idea what it feels to hit by the train of infidelity, they have no idea how it feels to see the life you once knew ending. people in here know my pain because most of you have been in my shoes.

Also be prepared for her resuming her relationship with OM post divorce.

that's her right as long as she isn't doing behind my back as my wife, although she insists she doesn't want him and never did want to be with him. add to that my kids do not approve of him and told her they do not want to have any relationship with him. my oldest son, who is very very close to his mom and butts head with me all the time told me yesterday that if he ever sees him he would kick his ass.

AH, I am new to this thread. What would it take for you to even consider reconciling with her (just in case she is truly remorseful) ?

I understand everyone's advice is to cut and run. And what she did was truly awful. But it seems to me that there is still good in her, that you still love her, and that there is a good chance that she really wants to make amends and reconcile.

So I will ask again - is there anything that she could do or say that would make you reconsider ? And if not, why not ?

If you start the D process, I suggest you let the OBS know

AH Guy

I know this stinks, but it seems to me that you’ve made a decision, and at least for me, the point up to the decision being made was the worst part. So in a way, congratulations, the worst is behind you.

There will still be horrible moments and bad days, but those horrible moments and bad days will decrease in intensity as you detach further and further from her, and the time between the horrible moments and bad days will get wider and wider.

Now develop a plan and try your best to keep it.

Lean on your kids, family members, and close friends. They want to help you, but may be hesitant to offer it, especially your sons. Wouldn’t you want to be there for loved ones when they’ve been hit by a train and need support??? Of course you would be.

Hang in there, stay strong.

You’ve done nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. All that falls in to the lap of the cheaters.

And as someone that went through this hell, and has helped a few friends go through it as well, I can say with absolute Certainty, The quicker you do everything, the better you will be mentally, emotionally, and in the healing process

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 1:18 PM, August 3rd (Monday)]

AH, I am new to this thread.

This is your second post on this thread.

Strength in your decision.

Not being mean you could take advantage of the duration of the waiting period. Get her to work on your recovery then at the end of the period continue with the D or accept R with post nup.

Buffer

AH, I am new to this thread. What would it take for you to even consider reconciling with her (just in case she is truly remorseful) ?

Perhaps she should start with inventing a time machine?

that really sucks, because she slept with him for the first time when she didn't want to go with me to Canada because we were supposed to go to Ireland.

I wouldn't assume that is the truth that the first time she screwed the human garbage was during your trip and that it had anything to do with not going to Ireland or anything else.

It sounds more like an excuse to make you take some of the blame for her falling into another man's bed.

Your wayward wife has found your post.

If so, that would be some pretty unexpected advice given back on page 6. I think the OP is okay and still in a safe space here.

I really don't care, the D will be devastating in all ways.I will mourn the end of my marriage more than any dollar...

That's to be expected. You're making a difficult decision and it's a big change for your life. And who knows?... sometimes people divorce and then get back together. My aunt and uncle have been married and divorced so many times they couldn't get a marriage license in their home state the last time. So, I think of the divorce option as full freedom to remake your life however you want it. Maybe, because I went with R and I know how hard it is, I've idealized D a bit, I dunno. But it seems to me that you get a clean slate and the freedom to fill it however you want. So, D isn't really an end, it's a beginning.

You can set up your home how you want it, date who you want, experience some "firsts" again, heal your heart, and if it's meant to be with the ex, she'll find a way to pull her head out of her ass and win you back. If not, you're still better off without the headache of being triggered 24/7 by a WS who just doesn't get it.

You're going to be okay. Look around you. We're all here, different stories, different outcomes, but the same pain. We made it. You will too.

Default Posted: 7:40 PM, July 20th (Monday), 2020 View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would have responded to your WW's text expressing her remorse and love for you with a word for word copy of her text exchanges with the POSOM to remind her of just how disrespectful she was - and how unlikely it is that she is truly remorseful.

Maybe it’s not his wife. I went and checked Gibraltar’s first post. Betrayal makes us paranoid sometimes 😟

AH,

I haven't been on here for years. Decided to post an update from 4 years out. I haven't read all the posts on this huge thread, but I can say that it sounds like you're doing the right thing. I wish I had filed for divorce to put my WW's feet to the fire. It caused me SO MUCH MORE pain by not doing that early on.

You two can always get remarried if that works out in a year or two or 10. But my guess is you'll see where her true motives are after you get divorced.

My sister and her hubby got divorced and remarried 18 months later and their marriage is way better second time around. So it can happen. I possibly should have taken this same advice. Different story though.

Good luck man. This stuff sucks super bad.

AH, I am new to this thread. What would it take for you to even consider reconciling with her (just in case she is truly remorseful) ?

Gibraltar, if you're new to SI, please read up more on regret vs remorse. There is no "just in case" when it comes to remorse. A WS either IS or IS NOT remorseful.

A remorseful WS has:

- Given their BS the full truth about the A and any priors to their BS preferably in the form of a detailed timeline

- Has accepted full blame for the A WITHOUT blaming the marriage or their BS which means things like "I accept responsibility but I did it because we were in a bad marriage/you neglected me/you did or didn't do X, Y, and Z," don't count. You can't say you accept blame and then list off all the reasons your BS made you do it. Even if the marriage is terrible, WSes have options outside of cheating. Even D which many BSes agree would have been better and less traumatizing than cheating.

- Get into IC with someone who is experienced in infidelity. Not a pastor. In fact, I'd say in AHG's case, the pastor is a poor choice because he seems to be giving his WW the answers instead of fostering the environment necessary for her to dig deep and figure out how and why she cheated in the first place. How and why she chose to carry it on for 2 years. How and why she chose to entertain thoughts of leaving her BS, humiliating her BS, and some other extra layers of crap she dumped on him that are specific to her. It's obvious from what AHG's WW has said that the pastor is saying things like, "Say X. Don't say Y." when an IC would say things like, "Why do you think X? Why did you say X instead of Y?" and bring more knowledge and empathy for AHG into the conversation.

- Is not defensive when talking about the A and does not DARVO (Defend, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender).

- Focuses primarily on healing themselves and giving the BS what they need for R. Ideally that means joining some form of support group (SI, in person groups, other support forums, etc.), journaling, reading books, reading articles, and genuinely trying to understand their BS and themselves in this.

The tricky thing is that there are steps TO remorse. For instance, a WS can't be keeping secrets from the BS and lying to them and be remorseful. A WS can't be still seeing AP and be remorseful. A WS can't be telling the BS that they are to blame or telling them to get over the A and stop talking about it and qualify as remorseful. Remorse requires a WS to be doing all of those things and to keep doing them consistently over a long period of time. There's no such thing as a WS who is some what remorseful or is only remorseful some of the time but there are many good pretenders who will use the right words and temporary actions to manipulate their BS into not D'ing.

AHG's WW is definitely not remorseful yet. She could get there. She may not. But that's not the whole reason why AHG is being told to cut and run. He has said many times now that's he's been leaning mostly towards D since DDay and THAT is more important than what the WS is or is not doing. AHG does NOT owe his WW R even if she is remorseful. R is not automatically the best outcome for a BS when the BS thinks that cheating is a deal breaker. Even under the best circumstances most marriages only get to be so good after an A and not as good as they were before the A. To some BSes, it's just not worth it to go through 2 - 5 years of pain and healing to get back to feeling "meh". For them, D is typically a better option.

Some times people don't get second chances in life. If this was a job and AHG's WW got fired spectacularly for betraying the company, no one would expect her to get a second chance. Since AHG genuinely thinks that this is a deal breaker for him, she's not going to get a second chance and that's okay. She should focus on herself and be fair in the D.