SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

How hard to write that whole thing out but I understand how therapeutic it is to do it. And how smart to have had a recorder going so you could remember. I mean I know painful but gosh how many times I wished during those painful times that I had taped it so that I did not feel so crazy! That part where you try to remember but can't and it was sooooooo important.

And again, it was painful to read but people seem to not want to accept that affairs are sexual, does everyone think that their spouse just went in and did a quickie for 2 seconds and walked out? What your wife admitted to is something many of us will never get....the dirty details. You just got it, its what happens in many affairs...its just never documented as much in detail but there it is.

And I feel exactly what you are reaching for is what many BS's are reaching for, who is this person? And why did they keep it hidden from me? And why did I not get that as well? Why did they give that part of themselves away? And if they did but I can't get that from them then why am I still here and in this marriage?

I think you are doing great at 3 weeks out, I was a mess. With no answers like you have. Take your time to do whatever it is that you want to do to heal. Trust me, it will twist and turn along the way, it will change, you will change and it is a journey.

Walloped

When are you moving out?

Does your wife know about your posting here?

HM

Down right scary when you see someone you have loved and grown up with become a total different person with someone else in the space a few months.

She was always simultaneously that person, along with being the wife and the mom. It's amazing the contradictions that people can live with.

Did you know romance novels are a $1B/year industry? Sold 85% to women?

I am going to be taking some time off and want to go away for a few days, but beyond that I planned on it.

Walloped - that's great. While you are gone, contact with the kids is important. AM and PM every day. They need to know you are thinking of them even when you aren't there. They cannot think they are out of sight out of mind. They already have one parent that has done that to them.

Sorry this happened to you . Has your wife done anything about getting a job ,she wasted enough of your money financing her affair ,she needs to work instead of sitting around all day feeling sorry for herself.When you move out you might want to take control of your finances ,seriously after her spending that 900 of your money on a present for the om ,she doesnt deserve to be in control of the family money .Make sure she has got rid of anything the other man gave her ,its dodgy her keeping that lingerie till now , she probably still has jewellery or other things he gave her .

I'd get the cufflinks back. It was your money that bought the POS the gift, so they are your cufflinks. Take a hammer and smash'em up.

My wife left her bike at the AP's apartment. I went and got it, let the POS know what I thought of him, and then went and threw her expensive road bike in the bay. It was all goodness.

Happy - I haven't told her that I'm on this site, but if she is on here (perhaps on her phone - cause it hasn't shown up on the computer), then there's no doubt she'd recognize this thread as being me.

I was planning on moving out tomorrow.

Advice question for you all regarding separation.

My plan is not to formally separate, but to move out for about a month where I can get away from the triggers and get myself into a more healthy and peaceful frame of mind to better process everything and make thoughtful decisions, all of which will alter the trajectory of my life. Right now, I cannot do that. I also WANT to reconcile, but I am fearful that this is coming from a fear of the future or co-dependency, and not based on rational thinking.

So...my thought was to clear my head by getting away and re-evaluate at a later time, but still have a goal in mind.

I have heard different opinions regarding whether leaving is a good or bad thing to do. What I haven't really heard is why or why not?

Could you please let me know the why behind the advice? Me vs her leaving is not what I'm looking for - I don't think it's in my children's best interests for me to stay and her to leave. They need stability and let's be real (and apologies to all stay at home dads), but she's their mom. They need her. In addition, I think she needs to refocus on what's truly important in life after her 5 month vacation.

So, why? My kids? Got that one. But it's either a broken father at home or a hopefully healthier one in a month. Any other thoughts? Legal? Spoke to my attorney - no abandonment issues at play.

Anything else? Would very much appreciate your insights. Thanks.

Walloped,

No I understand the need for you to recover and get space. I guess my issue is I hate seeing you get punished by moving out when she caused this shit storm. It's not fair to you but understandable.

Also, I know how thorough you have been but even I was stunned from your huge post though now it makes sense it came from a phone. I thought you had taken 5 hours to write that

My concern for you is this; while you are staying at your brothers or where have you, what are you doing to ensure that boundaries are in place for her ? The last thing you need is to move out for three months to take care of yourself, then come back and move back in, start reconciliation if that's what you choose just to find out that she drifted while you were gone.

I am not a fan of reconciliation or separation. Definitely not separation. However, if that is what it is going to be, shouldn't you add protections and commitments in there to ensure that she is still on the hook ?

I feel badly that you had to hear much of what you did. Seems to be a lot of openness in her answers which is a plus. How she devolved as an individual to hurt you so badly out of her greed and while allowing her to lose her moral foundations is something she's going to have to fix.

If she's on probation, she needs to be monitored or have a lie detector test before you get back together

If you want to reconcile, I really think that going away for that long isn't a great idea.

Your WW seems a lot more open and remorseful than mine did.

You have to choose for yourself but if you want R then I think you shouldn't be gone so long. You have to grieve together I guess. You want the M but then you go away for months? I know you are hurting but this seems counter-intuitive to me.

good for consulting your attorney.

Do not LEGALLY separate. Going off for a few weeks to collect yourself is not my classic definition of 'separation'. I am opposed to legal separation.

I don't like you being punished for this but understand the rationale in still protecting the family. However, you have to measure taking care of the family against being a burden to others or are you moving into your own place ?

I don't like separation for two reasons 1) you lose control of the situation. She couldn't handle freedom the last time, how is she going to control it this time ? How do you know what you are going back to in a month ? How do you know she won't bring him back to the house if still in touch with him (though you are confident she's not. She may think she's losing you and truly break.

2) Make sure you are legally covered. It sounds like you took the initial step in that direction

I agree in part with ICO above

[This message edited by Western at 9:21 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

I don't have personal experience with separation, so I'll refrain myself from giving advice, but I agree with those that say that it's paramount to keep a healthy dose of communication with the kids, in addition to them being in therapy. They'll probably fear being abandoned, so maybe talk to their therapist how to handle the separation the best for them.

Having said all that, I think at least a short-term separation in your situation is a prudent and necessary step for your emotional, mental and physical well-being, and that you'll break down in more than one way if you don't get some distance, peace, calm,... So I'm all for it!

One other thing - and this is in response to a number of posts I received (and no, not those posts, I'm simply ignoring those).

I fully believe she lied to me about breaking NC at her sister's house. However, I am waiting to see if she'll fess up on her own or whether it'll come out at the poly. What I don't get is why. She told me things she could have / should lied about but this is what she chose to lie about? I don't get it. But then again, I'm not in her shoes. Maybe she's knee-deep in self perservation mode. Who knows? It's a silly lie and it'll come out. Question for me is when and how.

I also believe she's unintentionally lying to herself about the affair and she's relaying to me what she's convinced herself is the truth. I understand this. It's not easy having to look at yourself in the mirror after doing this to someone you love. And yes, I do believe she loves me. And I don't define sex as love. I view sex as a manifestation of love, a way to connect and be close to one you love - or for people you truly don't care about deeply, just plain lust to get your rocks off. Did I want to rip her clothes off when we were in our 20's? Yes. Before this affair? Not the same way. I wanted her, but it was so much deeper than just lustful. I already know every inch of her body, likes, dislikes, what gets her going, what's a cools the mood. I don't get the impression POS could say that at all. And our sex life was very good. We had actually discussed this about a year or so ago. My wife admitted that she cannot recall more than a handful of times that she didn't O in all our years together. Know why? Becomes my philosophy has always been that she comes first (pun intended ) I made sure of it before I was a consideration. So I do not believe this was about sex at all. And I did not get the impression the sex was amazing. I did get the impression that she got off on what she was doing and how she felt about doing it, not the act itself. More psychological than physical. The sex was a way for her to feel good about herself. I think she needed an OM who had admirable qualities in her mind so that the validation had meaning and was valued. I don't think a construction worker whistling at her would have done anything for her. If POS was a jerk, she wouldn't have jumped into bed with him. And as such, if he never asked for it and simply kept feeding her ego, I think she would've been okay with that. But once he did and she acquiesced and got the associated extra validations and compliments and ego boosts, well, like a crack addict she needed more of it.

What's scary to me is that she felt she needed this. I don't know why. That's where the hard work will be for her. She'll need to dig deep and be honest with herself. Once she figures that out, she can be more honest with me. In the meantime, I don't hold that lack of clarity against her.

Basically, I'm under no illusions here. I am not Kevin Bacon in Animal House yelling "All is well!" It's not. Far from it. But expectations need to be realistic. I am trying to temper my reactions to her by evaluating my expectations on what is reasonable for her to say/do/act given the situation she finds herself in. Your collective advice would likely be even more helpful to me with those thoughts in mind as a frame as well. Thanks.

-W

The downside to an extended separation can be that you will not see her progress and remorseful expressions with regard to reconciliation.

But, it sounds like you just need to clear your head.

She could get so discouraged by your absence that she falters in her resolve to make it right. But, if that happens, isn't she too weak to be a safe partner for you anyway?

If you make a commitment to have meetings to discuss her therapy, your questions, etc. that keeps the lines of communication open.

Realistically, you may not decide on reconciliation or divorce for months. You may decide this week.

And, for that, you will want to be sure. To be sure, you will want to have an honest assessment for yourself...to know you did everything possible for you and your kids. Not that you aren't fully entitled to decide on divorce right now. To make the honest assessment you will need to see who she is now. Living together so you can see her actions.

You're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you stay, you feel like you cannot breathe. If you go, you will wonder what she is doing.

If you need to clear your head, take the separation week by week. Hell, take it day by day.

Could you please let me know the why behind the advice?

I view separation as a stepping stone to D. Doesn't always have to be, but most of the time what I have seen here on SI is that S is used to start getting things in order for D for several reasons. First, it allows you to detach as you want to do. It's way past a detach 180 style though. S is I'll see you and talk to you when I can, maybe it that. When we do talk it will be about finances, scheduling re the kids, or any additional living arrangements that need to be made. Typically that's all that is discussed. There is no discussion on where the relationship goes in the future. If your goal is to reconcile, this is counterproductive to reconciling. This allows you to detach and get out of the M.

Further, by being separated, you get to see what D is going to look like. You get to figure out your expenses separately, the visit schedule with the kids, you are going to have to start thinking about who gets what holidays even when separated, etc. What the day to day of D is going to look like.

I get that you are thinking of your kids first and them being with WW in the home. I know many here are advising against that, but I can see why you are doing what you are doing. You are being a stand up guy and thinking of your kids. Did you check with your lawyer about what that means in NYS? Legally you may be obligated for certain measures later. Make sure you just didn't forfeit any entitlements that you may have by moving out. Even if your WW says that she would never take this or that, neither of you may have a say and the law will dictate things. Double check with your lawyer.

Further, while you are at it, you may as well file for legal separation since you are in NYS. You need a minimum of legal separation for 6 months in NYS before you can file for D. Legal separation doesn't really mean all that much until you file for D (if you find in the end that is your intention). My father was legally separated from my step momster for 2 years but they still lived together. Being legally separated can also protect you from financial situations that may occur as well. At least ask your lawyer about it.

yop

One question before I respond on separation that would help me give you advice: I get that you want the kids to be near their mom, but how much of you not wanting her to leave is your fear that she will return to him?

Walluped,

I like that you're asking for advice on moving out, but like the decision to R or D, this one is on you.

I sympathize with the decision. When I had a bad day at work, the only way I recover is by stepping outside or something like that. I have co-workers who instead thrive on that chaos. We're all different.

If getting your own place for a month is the equivalent of taking a walk to Starbucks to clear your head, and you're the type of needs it, then I don't see the issue.

I (vehemently) disagree that this will be an impediment towards reconciliation. Do you remember that scene in Empire Strikes Back when Vader started using the force to start chucking shit at Luke? He was swinging the lightsaber blindly and all his effort made him do was lose energy and get hit even harder? That's Wallup right now, he'll just fall over in exhaustion and properly take out his anger on his ww if he's not given the chance to step away and catch his thoughts.

She deserves the fair shake of him clearing his head. What should told him this weekend probably would make 95% of us divorce our spouses. I belive what she did was very difficult and as honest as she could be. Basing this on his honor, he owes it to her to process it as well as he can.

As to your comments about your wife and the affair, I think you will have a tendency to look into it too much. She wanted to have an affair because she was excited about it and then when she was in it she fell in love with the man she was having it with. Period. I'm just saying that because both of you may never get a root cause here -- it's logical to want one, but the simple answer is she had an affair and subsequent deep relationship because she wanted to. I'm re-stating the obvious, but you'll kill yourself if you go down this road of seeking absolutes.

[This message edited by eric1 at 9:36 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

Just to clarify - Your attorney isn't concerned about the 30 day rule?

After 30 days of not living here, I was able to get a TRO to force my H to get his shit out of the house and stay out (long story....).

If that isn't an issue, I can certainly see why you need to get away from her. Although....she isn't working....why can't she take care of the kids as necessary while you are at work and when you get home go to her sister's place to stay? Stay at her sister's when you are home on the weekends, etc?

Either way if YOU need separation I agree that in-house is NOT the way to go. As long as you are all clear on the 30 day thing per your attorney, I say the highest priority is the kids as I mentioned in an earlier post.

Maybe postpone the move out until after the little trip you have planned for yourself? Maybe you'd find that after being away for a few days that you don't need that total and complete separation on a permanent basis, so to speak?

Idk. Just throwing it out there.

walloped - I'm glad you're ignoring a lot of posters. a lot of what has been posted isn't constructive at all.

I think the advantage of being separated is that it gives you space to think without being clouded by her presence. It doesn't need to be a month. It can be a week, two weeks. Whatever it takes for you to start feeling like you again. What she did to you is terribly emasculating. No doubt your confidence in yourself, as well as her, and the two of you together, is completely shot.

The goal of separation is for you to sufficiently heal that you can evaluate everything on a less emotional level. I think it's a good thing. It worked for me. Not everyone feels that way.

I'm not positive that she's lying about breaking NC. Just make sure you find out. See if you can get the phone records from your SILs house. Or just point blank ask it at the polygraph. So, as you said, it will come out.

I think you're assessment of what is going on is pretty good. You know her. We know she can lie. But now that you are on to her, I would be very suspicious that she could successfully lie to you. Now that your suspicions are up, you would see something. You're too smart and you know her too well. So trust your gut.

I think it's interesting that she's naive enough to think she can help you heal. She still can't quite grasp the damage she's done. If the thought of sleeping with her, or seeing her naked makes you nauseous, you need to tell her.

I'm really sorry this has happened to you. It's a horrible story. There are things to be thankful for though. None of your children died. You haven't died. You still have your job. She want's to stay. She's been honest very quickly about the vast majority of things. there are always things to be thankful for.

1. She really did a lot of bad things.

2. But she wants to stay. She chose YOU before she found out that OM was a POS. Even while she thought she still loved him.

This what I think you should do:

1. do the separation for awhile if you think you need to. Figure out whether you can forgive this.

2. let time, and your feelings tell you what to do. Either she will wait or she won't. Personally, I don't think there's any chance she won't wait for you.

That's it. The only thing you've got to do is get healthy and decide whether you can get past this. Nothing else.

good luck friend. Whatever you decide, you will be ok. Of that I'm certain.

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:50 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

ICO - Thanks. I may have to adjust timing and shorten it.

Western - I don't. But then again, I don't have control on what she does now either. Look at what she did before. And she won't be under house arrest. Unless me leaving might push her away, but then as Valentine said, she might be too weak then anyway.

Hobbes - Thanks.

Valentine - Again, timing. Perhaps I shorten it and not box myself in.

yearsofpain - Excellent post. Thanks for that. didn't look at it that way.

SpokenFor - None. She can if she wants to and there's really nothing I can do about it, whethere she's at home or not. I just think we need time away from each other for a bit. But prolonged or consistent separation brings up Valentine's point about me not seeing her effort or progress...or lack thereof if that's the case.

eric - Your analogy is perfect. Dead on.

nekorb - Excellent ideas! Thank you. I'm seriously going to consider what you've said. That might just be the right thing for me. Kinda splitting the baby, so to speak.