SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It was just a kiss.

Actually a kiss is a very big deal.

First, a kiss is a symbol of love. Within marriage, it's something very intimate (emotionally & physically)that's reserved for one's life partner. Therefore, a kiss alone is reason enough to feel betrayed, hurt and angry.

Second, it gets worse. Extensive research on what lead up to adultery finds that:

the 'kiss' is the 'action/event' that immediately changed the nature of their relationship from just friends (or harmless flirting) to feeling a strong emotional connection - which in turn quickly ramped up to adultery.

So the kiss is a big deal because if you didn't catch her then it's reasonable for you to assume that it was just a matter of time until they had sex.

Finally, she (and her family) will attempt to minimize her behavior as harmless because you don't have a video of them having sex.

Don't get pulled into the weeds about whether they had sex (yet).

Her deceitful behavior destroyed your marriage by destroying your trust in her (which in itself is reason to divorce).

And only she can rebuild trust (and she doesn't get points for saying "trust me" I won't do this again).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 8:41 AM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

You are right Robert, the kiss is a huge deal. If it was just a kiss she has romanticized this into being a possible soulmate per the VAR conversations. I am not naive and I believe they have done more, that is what the timeline and lie detector test comes in.

I am telling her parents later today & they will be devastated. I don't expect them to defend her, but who knows? They both spend a lot of time with us and our kids and treat me like their son. It is not going to be an easy conversation.

[This message edited by CM70 at 10:34 AM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

Finally, she (and her family) will attempt to minimize her behavior as harmless because you don't have a video of them having sex.

Robert22205https

Robert’s entire post was outstanding but I would like to address the above.

Even though the betrayed spouse may have found more than enough evidence to divorce there is still value in documenting sex.

They will say that you’re breaking up a family over a kiss. Proof of sex takes that away.

Go with what you have. All I’m saying is that in general there is still value in finding out more even if you have decided to divorce.

I don't expect them to defend her, but who knows? They both spend a lot of time with us and our kids and treat me like their son. It is not going to be an easy conversation.

They might not defend her, but they probably won't condemn her.

Remember - she is their baby.

What usually happens in this circumstance is that although disappointed, parents try to support and back their child: "She is devastated by her actions...", "She'll do anything to make it up to you...".

Then their is the guilt: "Please don't destroy the family over this CM70..."

And finally sicker family dynamics will go on the offensive and villainize the betrayed spouse.

Exposure to family is good, but it is mostly so you are not proactively made into the asshole by your wife and it keeps her from being able to continue in the shadows.

Good luck with the confrontation and the discussion with her parents. It never goes according to plan and there's always stuff you wish you said.

It's a tough place for her parents and they will sooner or later be tempted to protect and/or justify her behavior somehow.

Be prepared for:

"If you love her, then you'd give her a second chance."

Consider an answer like:

1 - Marriage is a two way street. Her behavior is evidence that she doesn't love you in any healthy respectful way. Which is a bad example for the kids.

2- It's not fair to expect you to stay with a partner who's heart & behavior is not 100% committed to the marriage.

3 - It's not fair to expect you to stay with someone you do not trust (i.e., to not break your heart again).

Finally, since she's proved herself untrustworthy, you can't believe her explanations or promises.

Therefore, if you do decide to give her the gift of a second chance, she has to first earn it (through her actions not words or tears etc). And she has until the divorce is final to earn it.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:08 PM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

The "kiss" has already been covered and explained but I'll just add a little to it.

I read some time ago and I don't know where anymore that it is harder to step over the line for the first kiss than for sex. As has been said, the kiss breaks the barrier. It moves the situation to the next level. It's powerful. Going from that to sex is an easier step.

Hi CM70,

My workouts/fitness is for me & me only not to get her back. I have been having back problems & snore at night. My back is way better in a short four weeks & I hope the snoring stops when I get to a better weight. If I am going to be thrust back into the singles world I will need to look good. But another relationship is the farthest from my mind right now. It makes me feel better & gives me more confidence.

I was the one who asked the question, and what you say is reassuring. A big part of recovering from infidelity is the betrayed person rediscovering their faith and confidence in themselves, and separating any part of that which is dependent on the person who betrayed them.

...I decide we need to go out together & have some stiff drinks & a good dinner. We do that and stop at a local bar like a block from our house & have a couple more. We finish & go to the parking lot & she wants to talk. So the WW says I am not showing my emotions & only a week earlier I was crying uncontrollably in her arms asking why? I ask her if she love him no reply, I say by not answering that means yes. I say so you love me, the kids, the AP how does that work & what was her game plan? She says I don't know? Did you plan on leaving me, she says she didn't have a "plan". She says I know I am a terrible mother, wife, slut, whore etc & she is ashamed at what she has done but can't turn back time.

The whole thing from your WW's side is an exercise in fishing. She says you are not being open about your emotions/feelings, but when you ask her about whether she loved her AP, she says nothing. Who is holding back?

And that statement about being a terrible mother, whore, etc, is an attempt to find out if that is how you feel, because if it was something she felt sincerely, she would not have followed it up with a 'let's just move on' statement about the impossibility of turning back time. In other words, what more can be asked of her, what's done is done.

Stick to your plans re. exposure, the timeline, and the polygraph, because those are all things that remain to be done, regardless of whether or not time can be turned back. What can be turned back, or at least addressed and clarified, is your wife's descent into deception and infidelity, and that has to be done if you are going to commit your future to her.

This is just a Shit sandwich

You are doing very well exercising and eating healthy. Wouldn’t hurt to gave a bit of IC for yourself.

Cheaters lie, they lie a lot and about every thing to minimise the betrayal as well as to control the fallout. Tell all I say. You don’t need her permission. Get tested for STDs and STIs as well as her as some can be passed in saliva or even digital insertion. Sorry about being blunt. It it is just her word and she is a proven fibber that can actively lie to you and your children’s face to meet up. That excitement of steeling a call, text or sexting. The build up to the first kiss, stealing away to the park to hook up for that first time. Sorry but there is more to this. If she says it was only a few months, we’ll double it for a more accurate time of the emotional side.

Her sister, if she was supportive of the A, then she is no friend of the marriage. File for D, on the grounds of adultery and name him as the third party. Have her served at work. She can then start to work on her self. It can be stopped at any time if you feel she is worth R. Her truth will set you free.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 11:53 AM, January 3rd (Sunday)]

She says she loves me and I am great guy, handsome, kind, loving, great father, provider but she doesn't know if she has the "spark" for me anymore and if she can rekindle that with us. This statement above cuts me to the core but at least I am getting the unfiltered truth. She compares me & the AP to the Bridges of Madison County in that she has a great guy but is she letting her soulmate go. I think in my head after hearing this, that's not real life it's a Fing movie. Let the AP deal with you for 22 years & let's see how he kisses you then. She goes on to say to her sister that we had sex but it was lucky the lights weren't on so I could see her facial expressions. Great confidence booster for me but to be honest my head was not in the game either.

You have 22 years with her so I can appreciate your restraint. Were I you all the items in bold would have been enough for me to end the marriage.

Rest assured if you choose to end the marriage she will quickly find the "spark." Your wife seems quite the shallow fool. She identified quickly enough what was important to her about you - Great guy, handsome, kind, loving, great father, provider. No mention of your loyal 22 years at her undeserving side. Wouldn't want to spoil the fantasy I suppose as the AP is her soulmate.

By all means file for divorce to show you are serious and there are consequences. Practically speaking your wife already ended the marriage when she chose to begin her affair.

Your wife opened up your marriage once she chose to get involved with another man. Once you file and you have exposed her consider seeing other women. What you choose to do with them and how far you go is up to you. I am not suggesting this to be petty. Nor will it likely help your marriage. Your wife will likely run back to her AP. She has only stopped because she was caught. If you refer to the points in bold I think you will agree it is over regardless. I suggest seeing other women for the sole reason that it serves an excellent lesson to a foolish spouse that they can be replaced. Your ungrateful wife will make many mentions of the 22 years spent together when she sees you with other women. DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO.

Regardless of how you choose to handle the situation going forward all the best. This will be a long and painful ordeal. You have already started to look after yourself (exercise) continue to do so. It will help immeasurably during your darkest days. Do not stay with your wife for the benefit of the children. They will not benefit at all from a miserable household. Two separate households will be better especially if yours is the only happy one. If you and your wife part ways you can expect that her soulmate will cast her aside quickly enough. He is there for the sex, potential or otherwise, she offers to him and denies to you. He will have little or no interest in being a step father or your replacement. If those responsibilities mattered to him he would be spending more time with his own children instead of trying to bed your wayward wife.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 5:58 AM, January 3rd (Sunday)]

Well yesterday was a very long day. I spoke to my siblings first all responded in shock & disbelief and are here to support me. I went to her parents and they were shocked & pissed at what she has done especially her Dad. They said they are here to support us & the kids, her Dad ends the conversation with her sorry ass is not moving in with us I guarantee you that.

The wife to say she was blind sided by my demands would not do it justice. She continued to try to deflect & negotiate on the timeline & texts demands. I told her you don't understand it is either this or all conversations are finished you have no control of this. She agrees to comply which she will have tomorrow to discuss (timeline). I have not sat down with the phone yet most likely that will be tomorrow to see what I can get back out of Icloud backup or a phone recovery software. I tell her I will file for the D this week & this puts her over the edge in crying/sobbing and negotiating. I was like robot in these conversations because I was angry and did not want her to see anything else & it freaked her out. Begging me not to leave her, she will do anything etc. Not sure where this will go as the information comes in. Like many have already said they would D based on the info I already have. I guess I will know when I know if I even want to consider R at this point. The dynamic has definitely shifted and I am mentally in a much better place, at least today. Thanks again everyone, I will continue to update as this moves along.

[This message edited by CM70 at 6:34 PM, January 3rd (Sunday)]

She continued to try to deflect & negotiate

No negotiation what so ever. She either gives into your demands or she hops of the marriage car.

You can't carpool with somebody going the opposite way.

The dynamic has definitely shifted and I am mentally in a much better place, at least today. Thanks again everyone, I will continue to update as this moves along.

The "dynamic" changed the second you decided to take control of the situation and EXPOSED her with the entire family, stick to your guns, she's in NO position to negotiate anything if she wants to even have a chance to R (with no guarantees), typically those who act swiftly and follow the collective advice of SI have better results.

Make sure that once she's finished with the timeline, tell her that you want her to read it out loud to you (helps with remorse), that you will record it and that it will be subject to a polygraph, that this is her last and only chance for her to come clean and be honest 100%.

What was her reaction to exposure ? have you checked the VAR after that ?.

My wife tells me his wife cheated on him that's why his divorced.

If possible CM reach out to his ex-wife to get the story from her side. We have seen other stories on here where WW or WH were "tricked". They didn't know the real reason AP got a divorce or even if they were really divorced!

I would not be surprised if this is not APs first rodeo. Nothing gets a wayward out of the sand quicker than finding out the "fantasy" was a sham.

[This message edited by BigNoob at 6:46 PM, January 3rd (Sunday)]

... crying/sobbing and negotiating .... Begging me not to leave her, she will do anything etc

1 - She was surprised because she never thought you were strong enough to stand up to her like that, including notifying her family - and filing for divorce. Her tears were for herself and a desperate effort to manipulate you.

Good job not revealing your heartbreak or reacting to her drama in front of her.

2 - Taking control and showing zero tolerance for her nonsense is not only good for your mental health but is also the most effective strategy to save your marriage (if that's what you ultimately decide to do).

3 - btw: it's common to feel sorry for your spouse (its called the white knight syndrome)- do not act on that feeling. She's not the girl you married and she's not even your friend right now. Maybe that'll change ... maybe not.

Hopefully she'll go off in the car (and call someone). The VAR may assist you plan your strategy.

You should also consider having her write you 3 long letters on whatever you want to hear and topics she needs to think about. For example,

1 - all the ways you are superior to the OM

2 - after what she did and said to you, you deserve better than that and you also deserve to be with someone that appreciates you - so why does she believe you should remain married to her?

3 - why she wants to remain married to you since her behavior with the OM is evidence that she's not satisfied with you emotionally or sexually

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:10 PM, January 3rd (Sunday)]

CM70,

This must have been a horrible weekend for you, but well done for taking a firm stand to regain control of your life from someone who felt entitled to derail not only your life, but also the lives of your children.

Well done also for going and talking to her parents. Yes, people will always say that blood is thicker than water, and a family will always support a wayward spouse if they are related to them, but it sounds like your in-laws have a good sense of what is right.

Your father-in-law's statement indicates that he has his head screwed on properly, and that he is not going to support wrong-doing. However, do not count on that; informing the in-laws was a necessary stage in your journey out of infidelity, and it has been done.

How your in-laws relate to your wife long-term is basically irrelevant. In the short-term, it sounds like your wife is not going to find much approval from her parents, and that will help her to withdraw her head from her behind.

The wife to say she was blind sided by my demands would not do it justice. She continued to try to deflect & negotiate on the timeline & texts demands. I told her you don't understand it is either this are all conversations are finished you have no control of this.

Remember this: your steadfastness and refusal to negotiate is the best guarantee of either saving he marriage, or ensuring that you are not sold a tanker full of snake oil as your wife tries to preserve and continue her affair.

It sounds like your wife thought she had the freedom to wistfully ponder whether or not she felt a 'spark', and who she felt it for, but your firm and decisive action has proven to her that if she snoozes, she loses.

And that 'spark' thing? I think it is possible that you have been such a good and thoughtful husband, father, provider, etc, throughout the relationship that your wife has come to take you for granted. As if all the good things you have done for her are not special, but simply what she is entitled to. And that complacent entitlement has led her 'spark' to dim.

A by-product of you standing up for yourself and taking no crap is that you are going to change your wife's lazy perceptions of you.

Whatever happens, she is going to know you are not someone to mess with, or who is going to just roll over and play dead. And when she reappraises you, she is not going to be taking anything for granted, which increases the value of your stock if the marriage is going to continue.

Whatever sloppy assumptions led her to think that having a husband with all the qualities she described to her sister was not good enough for a precious princess like her are going to be turned on their head when she starts running to try and prove that she is good enough for you to consider keeping her in your life.

This is not about punishing her; it is about regaining control of your life and destiny. And ensuring that if you do continue in the marriage, there will be no more assumptions on your wife's part that she can do whatever she likes or treat you in a high-handed manner and get away with it unchallenged.

And in case anyone thinks this is some kind of 'red pill' sermon about keeping the little woman in order, I wholeheartedly recommend women with unfaithful husbands or boyfriends taking a similar 'no nonsense' 'who do you think you are dealing with?' approach to the men in their lives.

CM70, remove the guarantees that have allowed your wife to develop a sense that she is a permanent fixture, regardless of what she does. Replace it with the message that you will be with her as long as you want to be, and as long as she does not abuse you.

Personally, I would let her know that she can move out whenever she likes, because you know and we know that she has (and never had) any intention of going anywhere else.

She is nothing more than a complacent, selfish cake-eater who thought she could have a great husband as the solid foundation of her life, and some piece of Sh*t she barely knows as her fantasy man. Sparky. A guy who had to do little more than talk a load of BS to become Superman in her deluded perception.

And you know what? Do you think that Sparky would be celebrating if your wife dumped you and the kids to move in with him, and let him support her in the same way that you support her? The wheels would fall off that wagon so fast it would make your head spin.

And then your wife would be back on your doorstep, pleading to be let back in because she had reconsidered things and decided that in actual fact she loved you all the time, and the whole thing had been one big mistake and clerical error and can't we just let bygones be bygones?

The truth of this painful situation is that you hold all of the cards, and your actions over the weekend have started to make it clear to your wife that you are reclaiming control of your destiny. She is probably only now realizing how thin the ice under feet is.

If you really want to test her, offer to help her pack her things and then drive her and all her junk over to Sparky's house. See how enthusiastic she is about that.

Funny how when I told my H he was free to be with the OW he was no longer interested. Yet five hours earlier he wanted to D me.

The mind of a cheater is baffling to say the least

Good job at getting control.

Keep up with what you are doing. See an attorney as well.

Default Posted: 6:51 AM, January 3rd (Sunday), 2021 View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She says she loves me and I am great guy, handsome, kind, loving, great father, provider but she doesn't know if she has the "spark" for me anymore and if she can rekindle that with us. This statement above cuts me to the core but at least I am getting the unfiltered truth. She compares me & the AP to the Bridges of Madison County in that she has a great guy but is she letting her soulmate go. I think in my head after hearing this, that's not real life it's a Fing movie. Let the AP deal with you for 22 years & let's see how he kisses you then. She goes on to say to her sister that we had sex but it was lucky the lights weren't on so I could see her facial expressions. Great confidence booster for me but to be honest my head was not in the game either.

You have 22 years with her so I can appreciate your restraint. Were I you all the items in bold would have been enough for me to end the marriage.

Rest assured if you choose to end the marriage she will quickly find the "spark." Your wife seems quite the shallow fool. She identified quickly enough what was important to her about you - Great guy, handsome, kind, loving, great father, provider. No mention of your loyal 22 years at her undeserving side. Wouldn't want to spoil the fantasy I suppose as the AP is her soulmate.

By all means file for divorce to show you are serious and there are consequences. Practically speaking your wife already ended the marriage when she chose to begin her affair.

Your wife opened up your marriage once she chose to get involved with another man.

Once you file and you have exposed her consider seeing other women.

What you choose to do with them and how far you go is up to you. I am not suggesting this to be petty. Nor will it likely help your marriage. Your wife will likely run back to her AP. She has only stopped because she was caught. If you refer to the points in bold I think you will agree it is over regardless. I suggest seeing other women for the sole reason that it serves an excellent lesson to a foolish spouse that they can be replaced. Your ungrateful wife will make many mentions of the 22 years spent together when she sees you with other women. DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO.

Regardless of how you choose to handle the situation going forward all the best. This will be a long and painful ordeal. You have already started to look after yourself (exercise) continue to do so. It will help immeasurably during your darkest days. Do not stay with your wife for the benefit of the children. They will not benefit at all from a miserable household. Two separate households will be better especially if yours is the only happy one. If you and your wife part ways you can expect that her soulmate will cast her aside quickly enough. He is there for the sex, potential or otherwise, she offers to him and denies to you. He will have little or no interest in being a step father or your replacement. If those responsibilities mattered to him he would be spending more time with his own children instead of trying to bed your wayward wife.

separated is not divorced, it is still being married.

filed is not divorced, it is still being married.

advocating, encouraging, a BH to date while still

married is telling a BH to rut in the mud just like

double post

[This message edited by oldtruck at 9:31 PM, January 3rd (Sunday)]