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ChamomileTea:

but I've never seen anything to suggest that first or second timers are somehow more respectful of their BSs.

They are never respectful, that is true, but don't you agree with me that this level of disrespect we don't usually see from first time cheaters?

[This message edited by Kaliber at 1:48 PM, July 19th (Sunday)]

They are never respectful, that is true, but don't you agree with me that this level of disrespect we don't usually see from first time cheaters?

No. I think first time cheaters are entirely capable of this level of disrespect... part and parcel of the mental gymnastics a cheater goes through to validate adultery in their minds. I think the difference in APs can be a factor as well as the level of fantasy involved. For instance, among my WH's three physical affairs, only one featured acts/words of deliberate disrespect toward me, and that was the one where he was future-faking the AP. And by "future-faking" I don't mean that he was intentionally misleading the AP. It's more like a result of intense fantasy. If you had asked him at the time, he would have thought he was sincere, but when the chips came down, he wanted no part of that.

For the record I don’t believe I could get past the fixing the heater incident. Just too much blatant disrespect and disregard for you.

I agree. That incident is enough for me to never want to see her again. I know that is harsh, cuz you do love her, but I’m not sure how after that she can ever be safe to you again.

That said, if she wants to reconcile and rebuild and prove to you that you are the better man (you are by the way) then she needs to drive that train, not you.

All you need to tell her is that you will never be with a woman who desires another man more than you or desires any other man at all or that thinks of someone else as the one that got away, and that she has years of work to do to prove you otherwise.

She has forfeited the right to be called your wife. If she wants to try and court you again starting from scratch, that’s up to her, but her actions and the things she said have negated all the previous years of marriage before that. No truly loving wife does those things to her husband.

I recommend you start by getting a lawyer and having divorce papers served. If your W truly wants selfless happiness for you she will give you whatever you need while the divorce procedures continue. If she does enough (we can discuss what that is) you can slow them down to see if there is anything there left to build on. I’m sorry, but I doubt there is.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:31 PM, July 19th (Sunday)]

Like everyone else sorry you are here. Make sure you go no contact and stick to it for your own sanity. Trust me on this. This includes no snooping on fb etc. Time will heal you my friend. Keep busy. All the time get out and do things. Focus on yourself and the kids. I am still healing but have learnt that these things help. Keep posting as much as you need. Good luck.

Me, BS

Her WF

2 young children together who she has abandoned. Where in a 12 year relationship together. She was also the only one I'd been with so I can relate.

I'm so sorry you are here. I am six months out from DDay and I am now starting to see that NC is really the only thing to help you get some distance, if you aren't going to reconcile. And after the incident with the heater, I'm not sure I could being myself to do that in your shoes.

NC gives you distance, it gives you detachment, and slowly you'll find your mind moving away from the betrayal, and the trauma (although it never disappears and will frequently rear it's head). The rose colored glasses start to fall away and you start looking at your relationship a little differently. I was reminded of something just today from Christmas last year, that has made me think about things again and how, just maybe, I did see the flags but chose to ignore them. And maybe he wasn't really all that and how I do deserve better.

NC includes no Social Media. I deleted FB, blocked him on Insta (those are the only two I am on). In 6 months, I've only pain shopped a couple of times. I will not do it again. It's hard - REALLY hard - to remain NC, but you have to, for your own sanity. Putting yourself first is critical.

Listen to the folks here. I wish I'd done so sooner. They know how to get you out of infidelity.

((((hugs))))

[This message edited by Outoflove2020 at 3:38 PM, July 19th, 2020 (Sunday)]

I'm sorry you're here. There is nothing you did or didn't do that deserved this.

IMO, you should insist on a timeline (subject to a polygraph).

Why? regardless of whether you decide to R or D

the act of writing it down (what they said, what did she think/feel when she can home after each contact, as well as each time & place) tends to convert it in her head - from a harmless star crossed love to a selfish destructive betrayal of her husband, family, and church.

I read some comments about her needing to do the work if she wants R ... or she needs to show remorse...

Maybe this is just me, but what kind of remorse would suffice for such blatant mockery of her husband of 25 years? Likely getting each other off knowing they made a fool out of him.

This man has time enough to take his life back. A life that has likely been a lie all along. A person who does this to him with such disregard has had practice and pretty sure this is not her first rodeo.

Logic demands that he cut intimacy ties with this woman and let her have her POSOM. He (POSOM) is a man of low caliber & poor character and will surely kick her to the curb. The Only reason she is at all sorry is because she got caught. All she wants now is to save face at his expense. He deserves so much better.

I have not met a BH who took decisive action and regretted it. In his case, I don't see another option... His wife is plain evil...

[This message edited by VinST at 4:21 PM, July 19th (Sunday)]

IMO, you should polygraph her to confirm whether she was planning to exit the marriage as well as to what she was thinking when she insisted (or the OM) insisted that you repair the HVAC at their love nest.

Regardless of the answers, you may decide to D.

You may forgive her and continue to love her - and still decide that divorce is in your (and your kids) best interests.

Divorce is a consequence of adultery. Divorce is not inconsistent with loving & forgiving her.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:20 PM, July 19th (Sunday)]

but she told everyone that I would never forgive her because of how tough I usually am

This is a subtle way of putting the failure of the marriage off onto you and your inability to forgive and away from what she did.

Agreed. We see this line once or twice a week here. She’s also trying to get sympathy from others, which shows that it’s all about her right now.

I think that it’s also important for you to know that, even if most posts are harsh on your WW, if YOU were to choose R, many posters will help you with that decision and tell you what is needed to make it worthwhile.

You will get through this, just take it one step at a time.

P.s., if you want to quote, copy and paste text, select the text and click quote button on the left

Hey, I just wanted to chime in on the humiliation thing, but before I do, I want to add something. You say you don't wear nice clothes due to work. I get it. You provide for your wife and family; that is your love language. But get some clothes now!

You see, when I was in the midst 9f the shit storm, I lost about 20 pounds. I want fat, but carrying a little extra. I didn't eat for a month, so that helped. When I wen to my doctor, she told me not to take this the wrong way as she knew my situation, but I looked great. I thought, shit, let's capitalize on this I started working out with a passion and bought a shitload of nice new clothes. My buddies were worries about me until I told them what I was doing. I wanted to be in a position to be my best if I separated from my WW. you see, everything I bought was 50% off because she had to pay for half. Hahaha!

Okay, now onto the humiliation part. It is cruel and unforgivable. Ir shows a toxicity beyond anything. My STBXWW would parade me on front of her AP in order to make him jealous. It took me awhile to unpack that behavior. It wasn't until I looked at her as an animal rather than a human being, that I saw something akin to primate behavior. You see, I married down. I have a degree, work in a career, yadda yadda yadda. Essentially, I'm smart and curious. Nothing special there as there are many people with a passion to better themselves. The rub is that my STBXWW was incurious and really quite thick. She just could not keep up in my circle.

This was problematic, as she always saw herself as an alpha female, based on her physical attributes. She was always used to being the prettiest girl in the room, and as a result, she felt that she had married own based on her narrow metric. Well, time stops for no man, or in her case, woman, so she invariably saw her physical worth diminish as she began to age. She started her affair as she approached 50, a time when her bloom.was fading.

Now dont get me wrong, I am in no way being sexist; I think youth and beauty are far overrated, but some people like her put stick on these and are terrified as they diminish.

Do her she was left. At I continued to learn, grow, and become increasing accomplished, her self work waned. Her solution was to not just have an affair, but in her mind, establish her dominance over me, if only in her own mind. So when she paraded me in front of her AP, she was trying to deal with her subconscious feelings of inferiority.

Having an A is one thing, but humiliation is quite another. It shows a level of contempt for another. When I told my WW that I would not screw her over during the D because I wanted to live a life of honour, her response was that I thought i was soooooo good. As if goodness, honour and integrity are weaknesses.

Years ago, I saw a documentary where cheetahs shit on their kills rather than let lions take it. In a way, your WW took a shit on you to display both her contempt for you and her dominance over you. It's a pill I could not swallow. I5 will take moving fucking heaven and earth for her to redeem herself after that. Good luck.

Ps. Sorry for the long post, but I really dont have much to do other than drink beer and wax poetic. Sad really...

I’m in the early stages myself so I’m afraid I don’t have anything useful to say except that I know how much it hurts and how hard it is to accept that everything is different now.

I realised that despite the fact that I wanted to reconcile with my xwbf so badly, my own conscious won’t let me. I realise that I would be ashamed of myself in having so few boundaries or so little self-worth in allowing someone who has behaved so badly to still have the benefit of my love and care, when they no longer cared for it and threw it away.

Your WW has really gone to town on you with the disrespect and humiliation with the heating situation she pulled. This isn’t just something you ask “Can I forgive this?” But “SHOULD I forgive this?” What, for you, does unforgivable look like?

If you stay with her, you'll spend the rest of your life wondering whether she fought to stay in your marriage because she didn't want her family and friends to think of her as the woman who's husband divorced her for cheating. You read the texts. You know what she really thinks of you. She's not upset she hurt you, she's upset her children, family and friends all know she hurt you. She's upset everyone thinks she's a piece of sh**. And the only way she can salvage her reputation is if she convinced you to stay, in which case she becomes the woman who cheated on her husband, but is so awesome her husband forgave her and stayed married to her. She lied to you for months. Don't stay with this woman.

Do you think she'd still be fighting so hard for you if the other man had been willing to leave his wife? She lost her first prize, now she's trying to convince her backup that he (you) was first prize all along.

What's more, she wasn't the one to tell you. She wasn't the one to tell you. She was not the one who told you. She'd still be f***ing that dude if his wife hadn't told you. Heck, she might still be f***ing that dude.

And you'll never know whether he was the only one. His wife found out. His wife found out and your wife doubled down on her lie in the hopes you wouldn't find out. And now that you have found out, she lying again by telling you it was all fantasy. That she didn't really like him more than you. That she wasn't really planning to leave you. That this was the first time she's ever strayed.

She doesn't respect you.

Do you think she'll suddenly start respecting you if you take her back? If you admit card you don't deserve better than this?

You read the texts. You know who she really is. You have the support of your children and your family. Don't waste your golden years by staying with a woman who doesn't respect you. Get out now.

Because if you don't, she'll stay just as long as she needs to to repair her reputation. She'll stay and put in minimum effort to fix things, and then one day she'll tell you she can't do this anymore. That no matter what she does, no matter how hard she works, you just keep holding the affair against her. And then she'll divorce you, and you'll find out she's told all her friends how badly you've been treating her for years. And how she did her work to help heal after the affair, but you haven't done anything to fix the things about you that made her cheat in the first place.

Don't stay with this woman. This wasn't a one night stand. This wasn't a drunken mistake. This wasn't even a simply sexual affair. Her plan to leave you for a millionaire backfired, and now she's trying to backpedal until she can come up with a new plan to leave you.

The disrespect she showed you is one of the worst I've read here. It reminds me of another from a BH, AshamedCamera, dunno what ever happened to him, but anyways his WW screwed the AP in their bed and the AP would finish all over his clothes in the dresser and the AP and WW would laugh together as he did that. He caught it all on camera.

There are lots of stories of WW's that compartmentalize their affairs. But these WW's are worse, they got out of their way to give their BH the middle finger while screwing the AP. You deserve better than being with someone that thinks this way of you.

You are doing an excellent job. Always see an attorney. Always protect yourself and the kids.

So much can go wrong.

she didn't mean to disrespect me and she wants to fix this.

Let her know all she has to do to "fix it" is un-fuck the scumbag, and un-disrespect you.

but she told everyone that I would never forgive her because of how tough I usually am

See? It's all your fault the family is falling apart.

Because you're too tough and unforgiving,

Funny how your toughness and lack of forgiveness didn't stop her from fucking another man and on top of extra heaps of disrespect.

Good Evening AH

How was the fishing day? I hope it was a great adventure with friends.

How is your wife behaving? Can she begin to understand the pain she has brought to you and yours. Is she pinning for her AP and protecting him. Is she truly NC with the AP. Does she really want to start repairing the damage to you.

Your wife is really just a typical cheater with all the flaws and childish behavior that goes with it. Read ChamomileTea, bashing you is really a common trait of cheaters as they allow the evil into there hearts and in your case she seems to be lead by the AP and his desire to humiliate you. It is so sad she followed and allowed the behavior, but this is betrayal, she did not have your back like you believed. That hurts, that is the stab in the back affairs are.

This IMO this is far from the worst behavior exhibited by a WW, it was ugly and evil but she was in the throws of evil. I have studied infidelity and witnesses so much of it and not once have a seen a situation that was good or kind. Affairs are evil and mean, always.

Hope you are worn out from your day and can get some much needed rest.

(((AHGuy)))

Wow, this is awful. I just read this the entire way through. There's precious little I could add to this, you've received some fantastic advice from people I've come to respect: Stevesn, Thumos, ChamomileTea, 1stWife and others. There's not much I could pile on top of it, except realize that in the collective view of some of the most active people on this site, you've been wronged. You're a good man who works hard for his family, maybe with his tools instead of his briefcase but so what? This isn't about you measuring up. You already did that. Your life was not a waste. Your marriage-- your part of that marriage, was not a waste. You brought children that you cherish into this world. You loved a woman who proved to be false at her core. This isn't your fault. Be strong. Reach out to your family and friends to help you as you have been doing. See your pastor. Seek individual therapy-- NOT for the marriage. For you. You have gone through some terrible trauma. You had the one person you trusted in life WILLINGLY decide to hurt you in the worst way-- to betray your marriage and humiliate you as a man. In my opinion, I think you have already done the mental calculus about where to go next. I would not wait. She may wail now that she's caught and say she loves you, it was just talk, just sex, a terrible mistake.. let's get real. This wasn't love and it sure as hell wasn't a mistake. She decided to do this, to inflict this terrible pain and humiliation, more than once. She did that. You already know that. We don't even need to insult each other with trite expressions like "You've seen the real her now".. which is true, but so freaking obvious right now it's a waste of breath to say it. Don't waste another moment of your life in this situation. You only have one life to life. It's fine to love the woman she was (or maybe was), but she's clearly not the woman she is now. You need to escape this, for your own mental health. Perhaps she could move to the other house for the time being while you work on the next stage of your life. You will get better. You will heal.

Oh, like Detective Colombo, I have one last question:

She is a realtor, he was her client, he owns a bunch of properties that she managed for him I used to do maintenance for their HVAC equipment. they also flip houses she used to buy and sell for him while every time he needs an AC installed in any of these houses I used to take care of that part.

You realize that there is a lot here to work with. Does she own her OWN realty company? If she works for an existing real estate company, how does the HR department view sleeping with clients? Is your company getting fired from this arrangement because he's sleeping with your wife something that is actionable? I'd ask your lawyer about both of those things. You may not want her to be unemployed in case of Divorce, but it should be there as possible leverage later. I'm glad the the OBS confided in you. Let her become your friend and ally in all of this. Compare notes, understand the perfidy of this bullshit. She did you such a favor here.

Best of luck, friend. I know it's overwhelming. Come here and rant all you want.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 11:08 PM, July 19th (Sunday)]

I didn't really see this here, but you should lay out both plans. I say this because sometimes we have seen guys who were expected 100% to divorce, turn around and stay.

Write out both plans and add to them daily.

R - If you decided to R, what would it take? This is a hard question and as you said, she purposely put you down and started a marriage with this other guy. She cut off sex and made excuses, figure out how that gets fixed, write it down. Lots of these things are going to setup an understanding of the size of her betrayal. So, how does she undo any of that pain? I say go down this path because you will see that this doesn't ever really go away, so if you try to R, you know what you are looking at.

D - Like everyone said, go see a lawyer. Also, you are doing a great job with the 180 and exposing. Most BH sit around and worry what other people will think. Lay out your finances and see what an even split of your assets would look like. Put it more in her favor just so you know what a screwed up divorce can look like. This is to see what it will cost you to divorce her.

My personal points I think were made earlier. She put lots of time and effort into being with this man. She denied you every second she did this. She didn't think of you while getting in shape or getting better at XYZ. She also lied to this guy's wife multiple times and didn't even fear you would find out. She has been playing information goalie for weeks. This shows she has been ready to face these consequences since then.

How has she been acting in that time since she was confronted to when she found out you knew?

How long has she been cheating on you? Have there been other lulls in your sex rations? (Might be indicative of past affairs.) Just something to think about because she had you pretty tricked until it was disclosed even when it blew up the first time.

Sorry if those questions hurt. I am just trying to get a bigger picture. Glad you have friends IRL who you are talking too. Those help a ton!

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 6:47 AM, July 20th (Monday)]

Yes it's especially hurtful. Some cheaters can be very cruel. You need extra TLC my friend. Do not listen to fancy talk. Take time for yourself and spend time with those that care for you.

She went to a very cold place....they both did. You need to be careful now.