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What would you tell her if she was in her dad's shoes then?

I would ask her if she truly loved her spouse. I would ask her if she can still see herself with that person for the rest of her life. I would ask her if she thinks that person is worth fighting for too. If she said yes to any of those questions, then I would tell her to try. Younger me, I would have told her to leave his ass after having an affair, but then I grew up. I had a marriage. I had a kid. Me, I think both should fight for the relationship. At least both try. If she were the betrayed and her betrayer didn't want to try, then I would tell her to end it.

I think that sometimes with my husband, I noticed that he had very typical symptoms of someone deeply traumatized. He would get very stuck in a concept that he needed to resolve to move forward. At one point it was the need to feel like the path of divorce was a known and not an unknown. While stating I did not want a divorce, I still constructed one with him. I know you are willing to do that, but do it soon. I think it gives some absorption of what all the options look like. I am not saying he will choose one thing over another but I don't think you are going to get past this stage because he is going to be stuck until he can work those things all the way through in his mind.

I also think that it would be helpful if he was talking to someone, especially IC. Mostly because on the other end of it I have seen him oscillate between anger and shame spiraling. Some of the healing he needs to do existed before you cheated, but it's now wound up in a bigger ball of things that is going to be hard to unwind without some help.

I wish he would continue with his IC, but he said he isn't "ready to be helped and it's a waste of money."

Hey LifeDestroyer,

Rooting for you both.

(No Soliciting)

Best of luck.

Dutchman1

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:36 PM, March 14th (Saturday)]

What's (No soliciting) Dutchman?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:39 PM, March 14th (Saturday)]

Dear LifeDestroyer,

If you google (No Soliciting)

It is a amazing story of a woman who never gave up.

Cheers

Dutchman1

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:38 PM, March 14th (Saturday)]

that person is worth fighting for

May not be a popular opinion, but I think this concept is kind of bullshit, esp from a WS (tho I recognize the marital history makes those labels tricky for LD and ND).

It's not about fighting for you. It's about fighting for himself, his dignity, his self respect, his idea of justice, his emotional safety, etc. Or at least it is for me.

Again, may be indicative of the tons of still unresolved anger I have about my WH's As, but I am not "fighting for him" and don't plan to (at least not where his As are concerned - I fought plenty when he was in a coma post suicide attempt). If he were to ask me to "fight for him" I think my response would be: why on earth would I even consider "fighting" for someone who was so self absorbed he could not be bothered to even CONSIDER me when dropping his trousers for years & years & years?

I fight for ME and the things I want and deserve in a partner.

The other part is the idea if the person is "worth" fighting for? That also strikes me as troubling and equating one's own self worth with what another is willing to 'fight' for in the wake of the most hurtful actions I have personally experienced. As a BS, I often struggle with these concepts, as since dday, I have NEVER felt my WH has 'fought' for me (or even our M), and it's a whole other round of fucked up ways to devalue myself based upon his brokenness. Do I still (and possibly hypocritically) believe I am WORTH fighting for? Damn spanky I do! But I also know that his unwillingness or inability or whatever to never do anything that even LOOKS like fighting 'for' me has not a damn thing to do with me.... it's all about him and his demons.

Look LD, I appreciate you and the work you've put in and I have some reluctance as I don't want my opinions to start a shame spiral. My hope is to help view this through one possible alternative lens as a BS. I don't see it about him fighting for you... i see it as him fighting to regain some footing after some horrific blows. This is what trauma can do. At 8 months I was still VERY much in a state of either absolute, unequivocal, pure rage or fetal position crying on the floor. I thought of suicide every single day. Today, I'm early in year THREE of this shitshow, and EVERY FUCKING MORNING I wake up I have to fight for my own emotional stability, my own sanity, my own value and self worth. I don't think most WS have a clue of the Herculanean amount of effort it takes for a person living with PTSD to just get through the day without losing it. Does it get better? Yes. Does it get easier? In some ways, yes. But I'm not sure it ever really leaves us. It's like a chronic illness - we learn to manage it. Focus on the things you are fighting for - not what you wish your BS was.

May not be a popular opinion, but I think this concept is kind of bullshit, esp from a WS (tho I recognize the marital history makes those labels tricky for LD and ND)

Yes, he is a cheater too - and he also has some seriously f’ed up sexually coercive behavior in his history w her too. Not to mention the emotional abuse. I think it is a MH relationship and not a clear it BS/WS situation.

I go back and forth rooting for them as a couple as he showed a lot of remorse recently. So I thought - yes, this could be a good thing. But then I see their dynamic and these cycles. And the back and forth. And everyone here seems to see LD as the bad guy and he is the good guy - but it is so much more complicated then other straightforward cheating relationships . I see it as so totally unhealthy in the marital history and it worries me that she will be his whipping post forever, vying for his approval and love and affection.

Was LD A worse than N? I suppose it’s all a matter of perspective. It’s certainly not my place to say but I wanted to offer this to you LD.

Was your marriage toxic? Sounds like it. Were you a crappy wife? Was N a lousy husband? Yes at some points, no on others I’d wager. We tend to get caught in this cycle of, I did shitty things so I must be a rotten person. Forever and ever, Amen. It’s easy to stay stuck and wallow in misery. I know I’ve done it for almost three years.

So what do you do? We have to stop thinking of what we did and what was done to us and start focusing on what we can do. I’m not suggesting to ignore or forget about what happened, but it cannot constantly be in the forefront of your thinking.

I believe this applies to N as well. I know the pain he is feeling. But he is doing himself a disservice in thinking isolating himself is the right way forward. Your negative thoughts start to feed upon themselves.

Perhaps this marriage is over. But I don’t think either of you are the same people who came here so many months ago. Like many others have said, I think there’s real love between the two of you. If R were to happen, I think you both would have a marriage youve always wanted. I will continue to root for you and N.

believe this applies to N as well. I know the pain he is feeling. But he is doing himself a disservice in thinking isolating himself is the right way forward. Your negative thoughts start to feed upon themselves.

Believe me, I wish he wasn't doing that. I wish he was talking to someone. Whether it be a friend from work, his IC, his sister, or someone on here again. I do the isolating and then faking it to people. It's awful and not healthy. Granted, he was never one to really talk before this, but then he came here and opened up. Once he opened up about his own bad choices though, that's when I would notice him backing away from here. I wish I never came here because then maybe this would still be a place for him.

Marriage, and N, aside, how are YOU? Are you working on yourself? Are you being kind to yourself? Are you learning to forgive yourself? Are you strengthening your bond with your daughter? Are you seeing friends? Doing things you enjoy?

Marriage, and N, aside, how are YOU? Are you working on yourself? Are you being kind to yourself? Are you learning to forgive yourself? Are you strengthening your bond with your daughter? Are you seeing friends? Doing things you enjoy?

I haven't been able to do go to any yoga or barre classes in two weeks because I screwed up my knee. It was swollen the entire time. It finally went down Thursday, and I was able to do a yoga class yesterday morning. I took it easy on some moves.

Being kind to myself? I don't know. What does that look like?

Learning to forgive myself? I don't know about that one. I do know that I was a shitty person during the affair, but I do not think of myself as a shitty person now. I did a bad thing, but I am not a bad person now. Maybe that's wrong to think like that, but that is what I have been telling my IC and myself.

My daughter and I have taken a good turn I feel. We definitely still have our moments, but I don't have that negative feeling of "she hates me."

I'm still not hanging out with anyone. I haven't called on my friend who knows what's going on. I haven't caught her up on anything recent with N and I. Yesterday after he left, I really wanted to call my dad to ask him to come over. I just wanted a shoulder to cry on, but I didn't want to put that on him. I also didn't want to get into it with him on the 401k. I know I should call on people, but I'm just not doing that. Which I know is only making things harder.

Learning to forgive myself? I don't know about that one. I do know that I was a shitty person during the affair, but I do not think of myself as a shitty person now. I did a bad thing, but I am not a bad person now. Maybe that's wrong to think like that, but that is what I have been telling my IC and myself.

Why would it be wrong? You do not have to walk in sackcloth forever. I don’t think you are a bad person either. Good people do bad things. You’re remorseful and learning. Please try to enjoy things in life and reach out to people.

It is not wrong to think that.

I've been very vocal on other forums, that a cheating spouse IS a bad person while cheating. Lying, exposing your spouse to deadly stds, stealing time from your kids to spend time with an AP, etc,etc. All bad actions, and behavior.

BUT. They may have been a good person before they cheated, and can absolutely become a great person after they cheat.

You are doing the work. You are no longer the woman who cheated. You are the epitome of a remorseful FORMER wayward. You don't need to wear that Scarlett A any longer. You have dug yourself out of the swamp. That is something to be proud of. I'm proud of you.

How to be kind to yourself? Self care. Take that bubble bath. Tell that annoying person no. Call your friend. Treat yourself to the good chocolate. Stop the negative thoughts about yourself. Somewhere in you is a little girl. Everyone grows up,and becomes an adult, but we all have that little kid inside of us. Imagine saying the negative things you say to yourself, to that little girl. Would you tell her she doesn't matter? That she deserves to be miserable? Or would you hold her, tell her it's ok to mess up, but she is worthy of love? You need to learn to love yourself. Maybe for the first time in your life.

You are worthy. You deserve to be happy. I've told you publicly, and privately, to fight for N, to fight for your marriage. Now, I'm telling you to fight for YOU.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:24 PM, March 15th (Sunday)]

Thank you.

I would tell the little girl that she will fuck up a lot, but she still deserves to be happy and feel loved. I know that I still deserve that in spite of the horrible things that I did. I know it, but accepting that is different. For 17 years I had that with him. It may not have always been in the forefront of our marriage, but it was still there. He did make me feel happy and loved. It's heartbreaking and terrifying to think that that won't be the case anymore.

Oh god this is heartbreaking, but I still think it’s not over yet. As others and I repeatedly said before you guys still love each other, maybe that’s why. Also he keeps saying you’ll find another man in 6 months, you deserve another man to treat you better etc. You had explained before it was because you want more kids, that’s why he thought you’ll find another partner quickly and have another kid. But I feel like its more complicated. I think he’s scared you’ll move on soon.

A quetsion on your deal, I remember N said he’d never give up the house, that he made a swing for your D in the garden and that he’d never let another man push your D on the swing. Apparently he now agreed that you get the house. Did he change his mind? What’s going to happen to the swing?

[This message edited by Lifeitself at 5:57 PM, March 15th (Sunday)]

Yes, he said he would do whatever I wanted with the house. He said he didn't want to make things hard and hurt me anymore.

He thinks that I want more kids because I always wanted more than one, but then I had one and my mind quickly changed.

He hasn't mentioned the thought of someone else living in our house, and neither have I.

Thanks for elaborating LD.

Another q (sorry for loads of questions) Is he still wearing his ring? Are you?

He hasn't worn his ring since D-Day. When I moved out, he gave me back my ring and I've been wearing it.

I think he's back to not replying to my texts unless it has to do with our daughter. Today should have been his appointment with his IC. I'm really hoping he didn't cancel it 🤞🤞