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She wanted to go throught questions I would like her to answer but I feel like we are long past a point where it mattered.

First do NOT do that -- IF you have her do this you use questions that YOU want and that she hasn't rehearsed a 1000 times.

Second, the mere fact that she had a burner -- went OUT and bought it, and was active in PLANNING this affair with the POSOM -- yeah, this was more than just kissing. This went on for months? And NO sex -- just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Mr Fibble, you have approached this whole thing in a very level headed manner - you did not lose it or get too angry to not be rational - which is good. As others are telling you, you need to really look at this whole thing in a rational manner to really see what went on and is going on:

First, this whole affair (and yes, it was and maybe is a full blown affair) was not a mistake or an accident - it was planned every step of the way. From the time she went back to work, to meeting and being attracted to this younger player (maybe even fuelled by some of his other conquests at work), to buying a burner phone, to rehearsing and planning what to say to you to make you feel guilty should you have suspected anything. All planned and if not for you catching that last text from him, would still be going on.

Second, this whole reconciliation business and being prepared to divorce and prove to you that she is telling the truth so that you get back together etc, is one big ruse. She knew that now that she was caught, she did not have too many options. She knew that you would be relentless so ... she "agrees" to divorce to make you happy, she promises the world and to not ask for anything in the divorce (which she knew you would not do as by your own admission you wanted to be fair) and she knew that eventually you were going to find out the truth by keeping on the path you were. So she figures that by agreeing to a polygraph many things were possible - she bought herself some more time to work on you, maybe you would forget about the polygraph later on, and maybe she could pass it by getting an insight into what you needed to know and practising how to beat it. Deep down, many people figure that they could beat a poly if they tried.

About the affair, it is now ridiculous to think they played around like teenage children at school - of course they were having sex. She is a married mother so its not like she would be too shy and he is a typical player who would settle for nothing else. Her getting "jitters" when he touched her is ridiculous.

Be prepared for a surprise finale as you go through with this. I do not know if she is showing genuine remorse for the pain you and the family are in due to her actions or if it is just regret at being caught. However, every thing about her story tells me that she is quite the liar, and seems to have a few tricks up her sleeve. Be very careful as you go forward and don't give in to emotion in making decisions about the divorce and poly. She is playing her cards down to the very last hand and is hoping for some good luck to come her way.

Take care.

[This message edited by Talisman at 12:47 AM, March 14th (Sunday)]

Complete new timeline required

I do have a new timeline. It as detailed as it could be, given that most of the physical stuff happened in July/August. The Affair basicaly fizzled out in early September due to WFH and covid restrictions. That message I caught was yet another try to lure her back in, and he sent it to her work phone since she turned off her burner phone. But I am still pretty sure if they continued to meet at work it would be still very much on.

As for those two visits at his home..

1) first one was a short stop on a way home, he just gave her some stupid book if I recall correctly. This I believe because I actually remember that day. I believe he was just testing waters to see if he can get her alone

2) the second one was very obviously a planned fvck session. Do I believe she chickened out? I don't. Occam's razor

I still do't get why she shot herself in her own leg. It was probably the poly threat. Or she finaly understood what her lies do to me amd to our relationship. Who knows.

[This message edited by MrFlibble at 3:57 AM, March 14th (Sunday)]

And this keeps coming back so I want to make myself clear - I do not plan to take her back. Right now I plan to divorce without any future R. And she's aware of that. I know I still don't have a full picture of what exactly happened, and probably never will, but in my book I already have enough to call it quits. I said it few months back - if anything kills our marriage it won't be her making-out with some loser, it will be her lies. And she decided to keep lying, no matter her intentions she made concious decision to continue with her deceits and lies. I love her, and I never wanted any of this, but I need to start making decision for MY and my kid's future.

I’m sorry it came to this. As I always say it’s not the affair that always destroys the marriage but the behavior after the affair is discovered that is the death of the marriage. It’s like the knife that just kills any chance for reconciliation.

I wish that I could be as level headed as you during normal life, much less during a betrayal. She lost herself a good one.

Talisman, I would not say her affair was pre-planned. She didn't go back to work to cheat on me. The reasons are hard to explain, but I would say a combination of selfishness, entitlement, very poor boundaries and an AP who knows which buttons to push. I doubt her intention was to hurt me or to broke our family. She just made bad decision after another until she was so deep that she went into damage control mode and did the only thing she thought that would keep me from leaving her, and that is to continue with her lies. It's very damaging and overall poor way of dealing with all this, but it's what she decided to do. And now it's time to deal with the consequences. Do I think she learned her lesson? Probably. Do I want to gamble and see if she really changed for a better? Probably not.

I view her latest revelation as her way to right her wrongs. As I said before, lots of what she told me I would probably never find out on my own. I think she now understand the damage she did with her actions, I can see the way it affects her everyday. I can see true remorse, no doubt about that. Unfortunately, too little too late as they say. The damage is done.

How long was she at the job when she started the affair?

Not sure how this is a downfall. But I might not be getting it. Could you elaborate?

I meant it's getting harder and harder to resist her advances. She makes it obvious she wants me, and as I said before, our sex life had never been a problem. We still have great chemistry, especially since I started working out my libodo went through the roof. She offers any kind of "service" I would like, and we are running out of cold showers so to speak. It would only make things more complicated and confusing (like it did before) so I try to stay away from trouble. And it's not an easy task.

How long was she at the job when she started the affair?

Hard to tell, kind of depends on how you define an affair. She started in March, he was transferred in May, the texting started late May and slowly picked up during June. Most of their meetings and lunch dates were in July/early August. That car session she told me about in the beginning was late August.

Thanks for answering. It just boggles the mind that she would risk her job so early into joining the workforce. I guess with all the new revelations about more hook ups, surely there were coworkers that were aware of what was going on right? And with the continued lies, you would most definitely have to doubt the timeline is accurate.

I try to stay away from trouble. And it's not an easy task.

It's going to be best for both your sakes to get her moved out asap. I know you say covid lockdown is an issue for finding am apartment, any chance to get her back with family?

As I said before, lots of what she told me I would probably never find out on my own.

Without poly, yes, but probably you would learn after poly. I've never been on Poly but I think it reveals the things that disturb the conscience of the person. So if there is something she think you should know and keep it hiding, it would show up. I think she did research on poly, including how she could mislead it.

A Poly can’t reveal the truth only indicate a lie.

It doesn’t probe your mind for dishonesty. You get asked simple yes/no questions and the machine gives a rough estimate whether the response was honest.

She arguably could have evaded a poorly worded Poly. If you don’t ask the right questions you don’t get the right answers. Her dishonesty was so vast she stood a chance of just never being asked the right stuff. Luckily the people running the tests know what questions to ask. In terms of infidelity you’d get advice on what to ask.

A Poly can’t reveal the truth only indicate a lie.

It doesn’t probe your mind for dishonesty. You get asked simple yes/no questions and the machine gives a rough estimate whether the response was honest.

Kindern,

You are right and I know it. I did not want to go into a detailed explanation.

With yes / no questions, it is first learned whether something is hidden or not. If she lies, she is asked to tell the truth. After her explanations, the same question is asked again, until the indicators show that she is telling the truth. If she refuses to give any explanation, she fails the test, and the truth remains hidden.

Of course, this should be discussed with the tester beforehand.

I can see true remorse, no doubt about that.

Remorse is about putting you and your healing first. It is impossible for her to put you first while she is still lying to you. Continuing a lie to save herself and the marriage is THE definition of putting herself above you.

What you're seeing is pure, unbridled regret in which the focus is still on herself and what she is losing. She may even regret hurting you but again, she needs to have fully come clean before remorse is possible. Without honesty, you don't have anything to work with.

I'd also like to clarify - many BS confuse not wanting a D with remorse because it SEEMS like fighting for the marriage to continue by throwing herself at you, pressuring you for affection, and resisting a separation are positive things for R. But that couldn't be further from the truth because just about every cheater wants to keep their marriage. They just also want an AP on the side. Just about every cheater wants their marriage to remain intact even if they have no intention of R'ing or even staying faithful in the future. Staying married is not about you and what's best for you. It's about her. It's about reassuring her ego that she isn't the terrible wife who ruined her family for a bit of validation and sex. It's about getting through this with as little fallout and consequences as possible so that everything goes back to normal for her.

Imagine if she was a man and you were a woman in this situation. Do you know what we call a man who is pressuring his wife for sex and affection especially after he has traumatized her? A sex pest. Rapey. Abusive. That doesn't change just because the roles are reversed. What she's doing isn't cute. It's manipulative and twisted. WHs get called out rightfully so for doing the exact same thing she is. It's a desperate attempt at love bombing you back under her control to get the impending D called off. It's not about what you want or need at all because you've already said "no" to her advances multiple times.

How would you feel if a woman kept telling you "no"? Would you feel good about yourself to keep ignoring her and pressuring her into saying "yes"? Well, apparently she's fine with not taking "no" for an answer if that "no" is coming from you.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 3:25 PM, March 14th (Sunday)]

Right now I plan to divorce without any future R. And she's aware of that. I know I still don't have a full picture of what exactly happened, and probably never will, but in my book I already have enough to call it quits. I said it few months back - if anything kills our marriage it won't be her making-out with some loser, it will be her lies. And she decided to keep lying, no matter her intentions she made concious decision to continue with her deceits and lies. I love her, and I never wanted any of this, but I need to start making decision for MY and my kid's future.

I never had the full picture of what my WEXH and his AP but I had enough. IMO, a poly is a waste of good money. You have even stated that you plan to not poly unless of course she pays for it. I think for her its a hail mary and nothing more.

The part I bolded is what I think is the most important part of your statement. You have to make the decisions that is best for you and your children. If divorce is it then so be it. She did this not you. You tried and she continued to TT. She needs to leave the house. Hotel, her parents, or friends but you need her out.

running out of cold showers so to speak

You need to take care of it yourself, as others have already said. Hit that reset button before you get too weak and you end up muddying and confusing your thoughts and feelings. Purely physical, clear the urges, and get back to thinking rationally.

Also, I know you have said everything is a lie until proven otherwise. Again, as others have said, there are lies still out there, as bad as you "want" her now, so did her AP progressively more every time they were together. I am 99% sure he got a "release" with her participation at some point, probably several times given the progression of her disclosures.

You have handled yourself admirably up until now given your circumstances, don't fall back on your surging libido and who she used to be.

Use her burner phone and send a text

A simple text saying 'Missing you' could reveal a lot

Add

My bad looked back, she smashed it

You could always buy another and send the text

Second Add

Use her personnel phone, unblock it, he knows its hers

Tell her you getting it checked or whatever

[This message edited by UnderCover at 12:06 AM, March 15th (Monday)]