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CM70, what is keeping you there? You say that you want to be married,well there are lots of options out there, options that include partners that will value you. Based on her choice of reading material I would say that isn't the case where you are now.

Any efforts made to show her the damage she has inflicted are met with disregard, as are your feelings. It's pretty clear from what you have written that she is checked out, if you went out of town next week and she stumbled across the AP and thought she could get away with it I dont think she would hesitate for a second. Is that the partner you want? Somebody that remains faithfull out of fear instead of loyalty and love?

There are other options, options that will leave your dignity and mental health in tact, how long will you drag this dead horse around.

CM70, I would definitely brush off any separation plans you've made. I've read "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" so I know she is debating whether to drop D papers on you. It's a guide to figuring out if you want to stay in a relationship or not. Without her accepting responsibility for the infidelity, how do you think your marriage measures up right now? Probably not very good given that you are (understandably) hurt, angry, and sullen. Anything superficial she may try to help the relationship is going to (understandably) come off as insincere and painful to you given it's not what you want from her. I highly recommend you either read a bit of her copy or Google it and read a preview to know what is going through her mind right now and get ahead of this.

CM70,

I looked up the book on Amazon and the full title is “Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship”.

Just as nekonamida said, she is trying to determine whether she should stay or go. This isn’t what she should be doing at this point in time. She isn’t doing the real work of determining why she had an affair, developing methods to ensure it doesn’t happen again, and healing her spouse. Only when she does these things will she be in a position to evaluate the marriage. She’s taking a short cut to avoid facing the truth that she is broken and she needs to fix herself. It is hard work and she is having problems facing that fact.

I would suggest you sit down with her and ask her about this book and why she hasn’t read (and implemented) “How to help your Spouse Heal your from you Affair.” Perhaps you could use the analogy of a house on fire. Her affair set the house (marriage) on fire and you need to a) put out the fire, b) find out why the fire started and prevent it from happening again, and (c) repair the damage from the fire. Only then can you think about remodeling the kitchen, painting the house, or buying new furniture.

I think you need to set some boundaries around her recovery. At a minimum, she needs to read and implement “How to help your Spouse Heal your from you Affair” and return to the 2nd IC that did not put up with deflection. She needs to focus on the issues that caused the affair and how to avoid/mitigate these issues going forward. I would explain that you saw progress under the 2nd IC and she has now flatlined/regressed under the new IC. She may be more comfortable with the new IC but that is likely ONLY because she isn’t being challenged to confront her demons.

This is really tough. I know you’d prefer to have your marriage work and it’s difficult being the only adult (at this time) in the relationship. If that is still the case and you still want to give this marriage a shot (I’m sure you’re getting tired), you’ll need to provide her with more boundaries. Otherwise, I see this limping along until one or both of you have had enough.

[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 5:58 PM, May 16th (Sunday)]

Your WW's choice of reading material is disconcerting. Who recommended it to her? Her therapist? Sounds like before she commits to R she has to decide whether she wants to stay. I don't know how that makes you feel, but it pisses me off just reading your story. I am a BS who has little tolerance for these types of shenanigans. Consequently, you can take my opinion with a grain of salt if you wish.

Maybe you want to give this relationship another six months because of the children. That is understandable. But, during that time, I would get everything in order for a hasty departure, especially if there is no progress.

[This message edited by src9043 at 2:45 PM, May 16th (Sunday)]

Hi CM70 I'm in Canada where you have to be separated for one year before filing for a divorce, you either file for a legal separation which is much like a divorce or you both agree on the date you separated (this could be contentious so some people get evidence of having a separate address). It sounds like in the U.S you can go straight to divorce which does not allow for a "cool off period". Could you tell your wife to leave if you are on the fence about divorcing? You should stay in the home with your kids.

Really sorry to hear this. Experienced the same thing.

This is taking a huge toll on you. Spend twice as much time caring for and being empathetic for yourself as on your wife. Take care of yourself.

If your wife's actions are harming you she must do the work to make it right and regain trust. Being open and honest and answering every question.

I'm on month 18 of dealing with things and things are well. Why? Because I'm a better person now. No matter what my wife does (we are separated but possibly rejoining) I know it will not toss my life into chaos again. I'm a much better person today having spent so much time in counseling and working on finding happiness despite the actions of others. I also know if I ever catch my wife messing around again, it's over for good, easy peazy, I will tell the kids this time and I will have known I did all I could.

So the plot thickens, I received a call from my Mother in Law concerning my WW. My WW had not talked to her in a month because she was mad at her mother for telling her she is screwing up and going to lose her family. My WW proceeded to tell my Mother in Law not to send her texts, not to call her unless it has to do with our kids and not to send her anything via FB messenger. The WW also told her not to give her advice on the friends she has been hanging out with (All multi-divorced women) and that she will hang out with whomever she wants. My M in law is pretty religious and was sending my WW uplifting messages and some religious stuff that my wife did not want to hear or see. My WW also said she is working on the marriage in her "own way", whatever the F that means. My Mother in Law called me and told me this and said she wants to do this to me, she is dead to me!

I have made a list of notes of all of my issues and will be talking to her tonight. I have also noticed this week she has stopped wearing her wedding ring (which is not normal at least when she went to work). I plan on ending our session tonight bringing up Divorce and what our next steps are. I am off tomorrow so I am going to create some new accounts at a different bank and move half of my savings, and all of my retirement accounts over to this new bank.

My WW also said she is working on the marriage in her "own way", whatever the F that means.

Sounds like her way is checking out. Guess she thinks it’s easier to take off the ring and move on than it is to get off her ass and do the work. In her case it sounds like she’s right. Reconciliation is a lot of work. You might be grateful down the road that she’s being honest enough (with herself if not you) that she doesn’t have it in her. At least this way she isn’t dragging this out for the next couple of years.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 12:46 PM, May 20th (Thursday)]

CM70,

I'm really sorry to hear this news. Pretty clear that she doesn't want to accept she has issues and/or do the work necessary to fix those issues. Further, if she has removed her wedding ring and that isn't normal behavior, she's planning to move on. Sounds like you'll need to dust off your plans for D.

Good luck in your meeting tonight!

[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 1:27 PM, May 20th (Thursday)]

You have been very (very) patient with your wife.

IMO (based on the taped conversations with her sister & GF - and subsequent lack of effort) your wife's strategy is to stall for time in order to weaken the nexus between divorce and her affair with the handyman. In other words, she'll blame it on the marriage and pretend the affair never happened.

In view of the recent conversation with her mother plus her unwillingness to make herself a loving and safe life partner (especially removing her ring), protecting yourself by separating your accounts is a smart move.

You'll find that every additional step you take to distance yourself from a disfunctional & unsafe life partner gives you a sense of control. It doesn't stop the pain but it helps.

If you have read "How to Help Your Spouse..." you would know the well-intended, haphazard repair by a WS is known as the "detain and torture" option.

I have made a list of notes of all of my issues and will be talking to her tonight. I have also noticed this week she has stopped wearing her wedding ring (which is not normal at least when she went to work). I plan on ending our session tonight bringing up Divorce and what our next steps are. I am off tomorrow so I am going to create some new accounts at a different bank and move half of my savings, and all of my retirement accounts over to this new bank.

Talk will get you nowhere. Only your actions are going to count.

I am sorry your situation has deteriorated. The fact that your WW has now removed her wedding ring says it all. That would be my first and only question to her tonight other than how she wishes to handle the divorce. Move quickly so that you can start healing yourself. Keep everything civil and tell her the most important thing the two of you can do at this point is to successfully co-parent. I've gone through what you are experiencing. There is life outside your marriage. It is up to you to build a better life. Don't waste any more time with your WW and start your new life.

I have made a list of notes of all of my issues and will be talking to her tonight.

Dude. It’s been 5+ months. What exactly do you think another “talk” is going to accomplish?

Act. File.

I agree with others - not sure another "talk" is going to handle it with someone who is doing "this my own way" by which she means removing her ring and hanging out with slutty friends. Just get those separate accounts lined up and meet with an attorney.

If you have read "How to Help Your Spouse..." you would know the well-intended, haphazard repair by a WS is known as the "detain and torture" option.

This might be more like what the author calls "The Negligent Homicide" option.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:07 PM, May 20th (Thursday)]

Hey CM70, how did the talk go last week? Are you any closer to a decision on R or D?

Leftbroken, at this point I am headed to D. We had dinner Thursday night and my kids were out to dinner with their Grandparents because it was the last day of school. Dinner was fine & the WW knew we were going to talk. She did not know I had written a bullet point summary of every thought & issues I have with her and possible reconciliation.

The Cliff Notes version of my list recapped the betrayal, and every point of the affair. On this point she now says I never loved the AP it was just the "feelings" that he gave me. I just say well that's a new one. I go over all the things I have asked for to see that she is serious on fixing things. I go over all the items which she has failed on pretty much all the boundaries and rules I put in front of her. I end all of this by saying "I am not happy & cannot live like this anymore. I don’t know what to do, except to move on." She says "Divorce", I say yeah and she is in shock. She start making excuses on all the items I went over & how she feels she is starting at square one with this new counselor. I say what, square one!? I am not going to give you another six months. I believe she is meeting her counselor today. She is going to go over all the items we discussed and we will talk again. I told her last night this is between me & you I really don't care what your counselor has to say about me.

On Saturday I opened a new Checking/Savings deposited check from a partnership (family based) that my lawyer says she will not be able to touch. I also moved half of our savings & I am working on moving an old IRA I have from my old bank to my new account.

She works for the school system so her last day of school was Friday. She was out with her teacher friends to 1 AM without her wedding ring on. She goes to a bridal shower Saturday wearing her wedding ring, goes with the same group out later from 6:30PM to 2:30AM without a wedding ring. I believe she has not had any contact with the AP & that is done but she acts like she is 25 not 45. I am meeting my lawyer late this week to discuss moving forward with D.

CM70,

It seems like you are seeing her for what she really is and what she is really doing.

I believe you are making all the right moves at this point and D is inevitable.

You deserve better than what she is giving you. Which is basically nothing but disrespect.

Stay focused and keep moving forward.

You got this.

On this point she now says I never loved the AP it was just the "feelings" that he gave me

My WW said this too. They literally have nothing new to say that hasn’t been said by every other WS.

From what you report about her late night continual carousing with her slutty friends group without her ring on, she’s simply looking for someone else to give her those feelz (which could also be tingles).

Incidentally there’s an old law enforcement saying: nothing good ever happens after midnight.

This isn’t someone who respects you. She’s hoping to continue her lifestyle and calling your bluff.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:22 AM, May 25th (Tuesday)]

CM70,

There is a serious disconnect between her response to you and her actions. You describe the following exchange

She says "Divorce", I say yeah and she is in shock. She start making excuses on all the items I went over & how she feels she is starting at square one with this new counselor. I say what, square one!? I am not going to give you another six months. I believe she is meeting her counselor today. She is going to go over all the items we discussed and we will talk again.

If she was truly surprised and upset by the issues you raised, she would be taking direct action and trying to address all the issues. Instead, we get

She was out with her teacher friends to 1 AM without her wedding ring on. She goes to a bridal shower Saturday wearing her wedding ring, goes with the same group out later from 6:30PM to 2:30AM without a wedding ring.

How does she justify taking off her wedding ring and catting about with her dysfunctional friends? I don't think you have any choice at this point. Time to serve her divorce papers.