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I think it's fine to go the uncontested route but put in a stipulation that she cannot leave the state with the kids. If you both have similar incomes spousal support is usually never awarded. Same with child support if you are doing 50/50.

Twice

If your income could lead to a 3500k monthly support payment then a 20k one-time attorney fee is peanuts.
Remember that any stipulation you might put in will probably go both ways – she can’t leave the state and you can’t leave the state. Rather use terminology requiring the acceptance of major changes by both.
I’m not 100% certain that only last years income would be used for calculations. After all – if it was that simple then you just quit your job and sign up as an unpaid volunteer at the same task, having negotiated for double pay once the divorce is signed. The judge also looks at earning ability, and your wife has shown that she CAN make a lot, but chooses to tend to her hobby for the moment.

The uncontested route is appealing if I can figure out how to have a stipulation that major changes must be agreed by both parents. If that’s allowed and feasible. I just don’t want her taking them out of state.

The lawyer also said they could include a stipulation that she can’t introduce new men until after 6 months of being together. This appeals to me a LOT because of her awful judgment in men.

Hard to say if we have similar income. Hers is so variable. 2020 and 2021 she made comparable, even much more than me. 2022 she’s making hardly anything while she switches to a photography career, which just is not viable and comes with a ton of expenses ($3000 a month for her studio, for example).

There is a lot of variability in what a lawyer/judge would try to argue, I’m afraid. That does concern me.

Twice, I recommend you talk to your lawyer in detail about all of these concerns. I'm in a similarly confusing situation. In my case, my STBX wasn't working prior to DDay for over a year. Prior to that, though, his income, although it varied year to year, averaged in the high five figures. Now he's working again, but chose to start his career all over in a new field, making close to minimum wage. This has made our income discrepancy astronomical. To further complicate things, I've been on commission and had a high earning year that isn't expected to continue next year.

Every state and situation is different, but my attorney as assured me that we could make the case with a judge/jury, if it goes to trial, that he is suppressing his income as he chose to take a lower paying job. I'm hoping for an uncontested D, similar to you, but only if he's reasonable. In this case, reasonable is considering his earning potential, with some compromise expected. Luckily, the facts of my case are such that spousal support isn't expected (at fault state).

WW moves out this weekend. She got keys to her new place, brought a few carloads yesterday. The kids got to see their new rooms and were excited. I guess that’s a good thing, but I still feel bad about it. She gets the new puppy (getting him was a ridiculous idea when she already planned on divorcing me), which helps the kids get excited about going over there. I’m trying not to get jealous and turn it into a competition—but it’s hard to avoid that.

She will be doing the bulk of the moving on Saturday, so I’ll be taking the kids and getting them anywhere I can that’s not at home. Cousin’s, grandma’s, anywhere. Not excited.

I will be happy she is gone and I can focus on healing/divorce logistics and less on the emotional trauma of being in the house with her as she is cold and robotic, not paying attention to me or the children and totally engrossed in her phone and late night conversations with AP. She’s been truly awful the last few days.

And yet, I miss her. I am lonely. I was checking out a dating app (not seriously, just seeing what’s out there, you know? Been 17 years since I dated…) and I don’t like anybody. Everybody I see is just completely not my type. I’m not attracted to any of them, or their lifestyles, or taste in tattoos and drugs/smoking. Don’t get me wrong—I’ve got a tattoo and will be getting another. Just. Not what I’m looking for out there. I wonder if I’ll ever find someone I was attracted to and connected with WW, broken as she was. I’m just mourning I suppose.

Hi ThriceWounded,

How did the WW shift go?
Are you coping OK, especially having time with the kids today (Saturday).

Thinking of you,
FAWH.

I don’t know which person first stated this, but it’s important that you need to understand why your pain is still so bad. It is abandonment. She is abandoned you by cheating and on top of that she is now actually physically leaving you. As adults we think we can manage anything but we can’t manage being abandoned. It comes with being alive. It comes from loving, and needing. You will get past that feeling at some point but give it time.

For nutrition I recommend what a dr said. Get protein in you by whatever means you can. Use fresh fruit for carbohydrates. No alcohol. Have a dr prescribe a sleep aid and something for anxiety.(I have not read all the responses).your health is most important.

Thanks for checking in, Finding. Truthfully it’s been difficult. WW and I have had a lot of tension as all her moving plans have been falling apart—people who have found out about her infidelity have decided not to help her move. A big storm hit our area today so she had to get a last-minute U haul because of the wind and rain.

I’m tired. I’ve been keeping the kids away from the house for most of 2 days now, so I’ll be eager to get them home and cozied up in a few hours. But I just heard from her sister that things are going very poorly… I might even take the kids to her sister’s house for a sleepover so I don’t expose them to the nonsense chaos engulfing the family home. But they wouldn’t even have pajamas… we’ll see.

WW and I tiffed about her puppy—oh did I mention the puppy?? She bought a puppy a few weeks before leaving me, and I did almost all the caretaking. She asked me to keep it for the weekend until she got settled, but the pup is totally untrained and barks and pees and poops everywhere—and even trying to console my kids when they’re sad about Mom is hard because the puppy freaks out and barks etc etc, and none of us have time to train it. So she got upset that I told her to take it now instead of later. It’s too much of a burden for us to deal with a puppy as well as the emotional and logistical nightmare.

Honestly at this point I’m feeling pity. What a horrendous experience for everyone, she must be absolutely exhausted and freaking out—and I hope she has some sense she did it to herself and it was totally unnecessary.

Cooley—I have not done a good job of taking care of myself. I thought I could power through but I just got very lightheaded when I went for a walk with a friend. I’ll be making a doctor’s appointment tomorrow to get something to help with sleep and maybe advise on my appetite.

Despite this whole thing, I miss her, and am emotionally traumatized. And a bit scared of the future. I just didn’t plan on being alone this suddenly as a single dad.

The story of your STBXWW almost sounds like an episode of the Three Stooges or a Benny Hill sketch.

Take care of yourself because your kids need you.

It won't hurt them to be without pjs for a night or two. Pretend like you're on a camping trip and set up a blanket fort.

It did seem like an episode of the three stooges. It’s all been pretty surreal, to be honest. The weirdness and craziness of it all.

She got out of the house before it was too late, so I returned with the kids. Her mom and sister had the decency to clean up, washing the dishes and sorting some laundry. WW was planning on leaving it messy and trashed, with a pile of dirty dishes in the sink.

She seems to have lost all decency. She didn’t call or ask to talk to the kids last night, though I’m sure she was busy unpacking and putting furniture together. Feels like she is completely AWOL.

Obviously this is for the best, and the kids seem to be doing fine and having fun on a lazy, cozy Sunday morning. But I’m feeling an overwhelming sense of loss and sadness. It was only 2 weeks ago I thought we were having a normal day as a family. The shock and suddenness is almost unbelievable.

It has been a whirlwind couple of weeks for you, that's for sure. It's normal to feel sadness or grief. What you thought you had, your plans for the future, everything has changed for you.

I cried when we filed for D, I cried when the call came that the D was final. I was sad for a while and let myself feel sad.

Now, I'm content and happy. And I don't have to deal with XWH's shenanigans.

She didn’t call or ask to talk to the kids last night,

Twice – this might sound harsh but…
Don’t look at this present situation as an alternative form of marriage.
Don’t have ANY expectations to her or allow what she does or does not do trouble you more than necessary. At the VERY LEAST never let HER know that her actions bother you.

Divorce is a very permanent and drastic change to "marriage". In fact it kills the marriage with all the expectations of marriage and creates a new form of relationship.
If you two didn’t have kids then chances are very high that within 3 years there would be absolutely no contact. No bday greetings, updates over coffee or FaceBook friends. Since you two have kids you need to coparent, and with time I hope you two can do that as well and amicably as required. But it won’t be you all getting together for Thanksgiving or waking up in separate beds in the same house for Christmas mornings. Rather you two being able to attend the same recital at school, same wedding, same parent-teacher meetings and so on.

I personally think that when parents decide to divorce and coparents then the one "off-duty" should minimize contact. Like if you two reach an alternative week for parenting agreement then your kids won’t suffer emotional damage and need therapy if you kiss them goodbye on a Monday morning and then talk again with them on a Monday morning a week later. Of course there can be middle-ground, but I think expectations of Jr. sharing every moments of every day and nightly good-night calls… neither realistic nor healthy. But that’s just me…

Your future reality holds so much hope and brightness for you. Don’t drag darkness and shade from the infidelity-marriage along with you.

Leaf--the change is enormous. I have cried. And will continue to do so.

Of course you're right, Bigger. It's a permanent and drastic change to the "marriage" and accepting that is difficult. The suddenness of it all has made it more difficult. It's been hard to just flip a switch and suddenly...not care anymore, you know? I know I have to. I'm not actually sure why I'm holding on this way.

I think it's because we had such severe problems for a long time, but the last several years I was genuinely happy, and she was too (up until not too long ago). So she waited until my guard was totally down and I was vulnerable again before dropping this bomb.

And we are still *very* closely intertwined. Lots of paperwork, splitting and selling of property. All our accounts are tied together and pulling them apart is a lengthy process. And the logistics of a 2-2-3 childcare arrangement... they are only 5 and 6 years old, and a week is too long apart. 2 - 2 - 3 requires a lot of coordination, especially because she chose to move 20+ minutes away. The fact is we will have to stay in relatively close contact for a long time, at least several years until a 1 week on/1 week off schedule is viable. And at this age it's been pretty traumatic for them. They miss us. All of the sudden Mom is gone. They are used to both of us tucking them in every night. They'll get through it, but early on, when kids are crying and saying they miss Mom or Dad... what do you do? I'd love to go NC/minimize contact. The times I feel the absolute worst are when I have to interact with her now. But it's just not realistic yet.

[This message edited by TwiceWounded at 9:12 PM, Monday, November 13th]

Update for today. WW only made it a single day without needing help… she has an improv class/recording session tonight. So she brought the kids over and I’m feeding them dinner and snuggling them for a few hours, then I’ll bring them back for bedtime.

This is exhibit A describing why some people have said they’d support me getting more custody. One of my close friends even said she’d want less than 50/50 custody but couldn’t handle the judgement from people. Anyway. I’ll be documenting all the times I help her out on her days.

It’s becoming more and more clear I’m going to have to engage with her frequently, unfortunately. And engaging with her is currently what makes me feel the *worst.* I don’t want to know what she’s doing. I don’t want to know she’s going out. I don’t want to think about how she’s acting all happy, talking to AP all the time and living happily in her own rental doing whatever she wants. While I’m the broken one.

Couple interesting notes here. 1. She bought me a new wedding ring last summer, symbolizing us recovering and moving on from all her A’s. I trusted her again. This makes it *so much worse.* Almost feels like she intentionally dropped my guard so she could betray me.

2. In 2014 she wrote and produced an album, which I also played the guitar on, and AP was the producer (they reconnected over her asking to do a new album). One of the songs is a very dark song called Go Home, which tells the story of the catastrophe that ensued when she cheated on me in 2010. I played the guitar on this song live, when we performed it on tour.

Very, very twisted right?? I haven’t pointed this out to her yet. There was another song on that album which describes my recovery, and I both played and recorded on that one too.

Ya couldn’t make this crap up.

Can you get a parenting app and have communication go through the app? Tell her the only communication should be about the kids or the D. Other than that, she's fired you from the hubby position.

What about having any handoffs at a location that's not your home? Grocery store parking lot, police station parking lot, anywhere that would help detach would be helpful. Another option would be to have a trusted person pick the children up, or be there to answer your door when she drops them by while you're out of sight?

I read an article the other day that was something about the 5 reasons to know it's time to D rather than R. One of the reasons is that the WS does things to intentionally hurt you. They didn't mention songs, but I would rank those things in that category. It almost sounds like she did that to intentionally hurt you.

I hope things calm down for you.

It almost sounds intentional, but I don't think it is. She's just really that neglectful. If I brought it up, I'm sure she'd be surprised and I think the surprise would be genuine. That she totally forgot that's what her mindset was back then.

I am going to try and make sure handoffs happen in places where I don't have to see her, or don't require being at each other's houses. It's just far too painful for me at this point.

I may have made a mistake today, which I now need to manage. I did message one of her close friends yesterday. As background, this close friend spent a year in a LTA which I found out about some time ago... which was highly triggering. Once the LTA was revealed and she went back to her husband, I gave him some advice and helped him through. The friend then sent me a very kind apology, saying I was a wonderful husband, father and friend, and a good man, and apologizing for what must have been a very triggering situation for me. Fast forward to yesterday--I messaged her and asked if she knew the full truth, and said I hoped she did so that she could offer support and advice from a place of truth.

She wasn't very warm in response. Shut me down. And I have heard through the grapevine that WW is very upset that I'm "reaching out to her friends one by one to turn them against her," and also cited another example of a mutual friend who actually reached out to ME to talk, and we discovered he didn't know about AP...

So. In this position, I don't know what I get by people knowing the truth, and I need to truly think about it. I probably shouldn't have said anything. It's just very difficult for me to sit here while she's telling people I was a terrible partner and everything is all my fault, while also the demanding I don't "drag her through the mud."

Anybody have any suggestions?

Hi, Wounded, how are you and the children holding up?

I think you need to be honest. If any discussion comes up about separation, you could simply say you won't stay married to a woman who has a boyfriend and leave it at that. You don't have to go into detail, but IMO honesty is always best.

demanding I don't "drag her through the mud."

^^^What you do is no longer her business, and if the truth hurts her, too bad. Simply stated, actions have consequences.

Wounded… Its not like I enjoy being a hard-ass… But see my tagline and then reread this that you wrote:

It’s becoming more and more clear I’m going to have to engage with her frequently,

If you engage with her frequently and you always accommodate her wishes… that is a YOU issue.

It’s early-days and the present back-and-forth does not have to reflect the future, but once the custody arrangement is in-place you are perfectly 100% entitled to simply say "this week I’m off parenting, if you need someone to take care of them while you go and work/get your hair done/whatever… then you just have to find someone to help you".
Of course, you CAN help her, but it’s not something that is forced on you but something that you elect to do. I have a colleague who works his ass off the weeks he doesn’t have his kids, but barely makes 30 hours alternative weeks… I also witnessed my eldest son falling behind on projects and work because his ex wife (divorced on her initiative) asking he pick the kids up on her weeks and maybe take care of them a couple of hours because of her schedule.

Definitely help where and when you can, but don’t plan or expect this to be your future.

I am holding up ok today. This is my first weekend without the kids, which is a little rough but I’ve been keeping myself very busy. Unfortunately tomorrow STBXWW and I are meeting for a few hours to go through some of the divorce paperwork… ultimately I think we’ll end up going through mediation to help with the filing at this point, because it’s quite a bear. But we’ll see tomorrow. Honestly I’m dreading it, but for my own financial future I feel that making an attempt to do this without opposing lawyers is best.

It’s true that I do not *have* to engage with her all that much, and certainly not cover any of her days. But I do want to put the kids first and choose their stability and happiness rather than random babysitters. I also want to be aware of how often she needs help, in case I decide to fight for more custody in the future.

Our current parenting plan is 2-2-3. A full 7 day week apart is too long for children at this age (5 and 6), but there are more transitions and handoffs this way. And as STBXWW has chosen to live over 20 minutes away (plus rush hour traffic) there will almost certainly be times she’ll be late for handoffs and DD will need to come to my house off the bus, necessitating an in-person handoff. And yes, I will be tracking those.

Of course I don’t want to "choose" to make myself unhappy but due to their age and the current situation that is the reality.

Twice

Again – unwilling hardass…

My daughter is a teacher and was at a conference the other day where the key-topics were kids from split families. The theories on what is "best" for the kids tend to go in circles. Like 50 years ago divorced dads maybe got a weekend per month. Now it’s more like the kids have two bedrooms – one in each home, parents are contract-bound to be in the same school-zone and the kids are switching homes faster than they change socks…
Turns out that a lot of research indicates this causes immense stress and uncertainty for kids and is far from optimal…

I hope we never go back to the one-weekend-per-month model. But I do think that there will be a backlash on the too frequent switch between homes. I think the ideal pattern is something in-between, where the kids learn that dad or mom will return in 5 days and there is no sense of abandonment.

Not that it’s an issue now in your situation. Its still to early days. I think its fine that you be as flexible as possible but frankly – if your wife is so neglectful that she choses random and strange babysitters regularly so she can have her dates or whatever… but I refer again to my experience via my son.