SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm very sorry for your situation. It was as though I was reading my own JFO post.

We share many similarities in that we are probably close in age, my XWW had a long term A and I too have children close in age to yours including a DD-17.

I have been D now for 4 months, it's been rough at times but knowing I will never have to wonder if she's hiding something or someone from me again is worth all the hard work.

She had become detached from us for nearly two years. The whole time living a second life and lying daily to us. She was very clever and must have worked very hard to conceal it from us. If you're like me, you will wonder HOW you could have missed it for so long. The answer is bc WE have a different mindset and could never even consider something so horrible. We are trusting and we thought the mutual vows we exchanged were FOREVER, IT'S NOT OUR FAULT!!!

If you can, spare yourself the nasty details of their A, they will only haunt you for the rest of your life. You know plenty about their A as it is.

We separated the day of our DDAY and I never once wanted to know any more facts. The mind movies were tragic and long enough with the limited knowledge I had.

An A that long is a lifestyle for the WW, I don't see how anyone can return to the state of mind they had before their A.

Take care of yourself and your kids. Even though they are young adults, they still require an ADULT in their lives, someone they can rely on and feel secure with. Remember...she betrayed them too, they will no doubt show some resentment toward her. Keep your thoughts about the WW to yourself. Never speak harshly or demeaning in reference to the WW to anyone, especially your kids.

My DD-17 has had a pretty rough time throughout this CRAP. She had a choice where she would call home, and she chose the honest, loving trusting one....ME.

The A was a deal breaker for me and the choice to D immediately was the right one. You will get through this, yes time and hard work lie ahead but it will be worth all of it.

Your life will be very different and you will soon relize that this new life will be OK bc your character and dignity are still intact.

This site helped me through the hardest event of my life and you will come to know this as well.

SJS

I would read Hopeforthefuture's post over and over again. I would take to heart everything she said. I would follow all practical advice. I would read her post again.

Finding a good IC for yourself can make a world of difference. Be sure to attend to your physical well being--sleep and nutrition are absolute musts.

Physical exercise--walking, yoga, push-ups it all can help. A good mindfulness program is a proven help for trauma and discovery of betrayal is traumatic.

I'd read. her post again. It lays out a regimen for recovery and speaks the truth that you will be ok. Your life is now changed and the old relationship, the one you thought you had, the world you thought you knew is different. The past and its memories are now different. At times you may find yourself feeling more confused than sad, more puzzled than hurt--it makes for a kind of crazy but of course you're not and you will be ok.

Good that you found SI; good if you can find an IRL support group.

Good that you can put this experience into words and communicate with others--that's already putting you on the road to recovery.

You ask can the M survive? Some do, some do not so yes, it's possible. But give yourself time to heal, to focus on regaining your balance, your sense of self and not burden yourself with any hard decisions till you feel ready. The main thing is that you will survive.

[This message edited by marji at 4:59 AM, March 23rd (Friday)]

Sad

First: What you are dealing with has more in common with a marathon than a sprint. That’s why the posts about taking care of yourself are so important. Irrespective of reconciliation or divorce, you are facing several tough YEARS of personal recovery and everything and anything you do to better enable you to deal with that is to your benefit.

So, eat healthy, exercise, get aids to sleep if needed, go to IC, allow yourself time in the day where the marriage and the affair are not the dominant thoughts.

You ask if the marriage can survive. Shure. We have plenty of examples of that here on SI. Just like we have plenty of examples of marriages that did not survive. Frankly – right now it’s not the issue. Your task IMHO is to get out of infidelity because there is one thing we have NEVER seen here on SI. That is a marriage that survives while in infidelity.

Your first marriage/infidelity related task IMHO is to decide that YOU are getting out of infidelity. Irrespective of what your wife does then YOU are headed for that shining light somewhere way in the distance.

To get there you have two paths. If your wife walks beside you there is the path of reconciliation. If she doesn’t want out of infidelity the other path is open to you and that’s the path of divorce. Both will get you to your destination. One you can walk alone at your pace, the other you need to walk with your wife at a joint, acceptable pace.

To your great benefit then these paths run more-or-less parallel for the first miles or so. It’s easy to set off on the path open to you and then jump over to the other one if required.

So, your wife says the affair is over and she wants the marriage.

OK – I believe her. But still I don’t…

Affairs are often compared to addictions. Your wife – she’s addicted to the affair.

Imagine her problem was alcohol. Imagine you finally get her to admit that a bottle of vodka per day is clearly a problem. She’s ashamed because she wrecked her car driving drunk. She passed out at the social club. She has caused damage and embarrassment and is ashamed of her actions. Imagine she promises to quit.

Think that promise alone would make her quit?

You ever woken up with a hangover so bad you contemplated never drinking again? I know I have and yet I still enjoy my beer and wine…

If she showed commitment and you two got help with her drinking you would get advice like she shouldn’t be in the environment that was conductive to her drinking. Alcohol should be avoided for the first year, as in avoiding bars, liquor stores and even the booze-aisle at the local store. She should seek help from others (AA or IC). She should work diligently at solving her issues (12 Step). She would be open and accountable….

You as a spouse would be warned to remove alcohol from the home. To search for hidden bottles. To monitor her breath. To be vigilant. To not trust, but allow trust as she earns it. To expect relapses…

Without that commitment and work… well… I would estimate a 95% chance of relapse.

And it’s totally the same with her affair.

Her promise that it’s over… It’s not worth more than the air spent saying it.

It only gains value when she can follow it through with accountability.

She needs to commit to total NC with OM.

Yes – that includes work.

Her offer to return the ring and cash… That’s like the drunk bringing a six-pack to an AA meeting.

She needs to remove herself from the affair-environment. Including all friends that in any way supported it.

She needs professional help to realize what enabled her to do decide she could do this.

She needs to be totally open and accountable.

She needs to be OK with you monitoring her and not trusting, at least until she earns some trust.

You two probably need MC, at least a couple of months in.

What I think will happen…

Well… OM being divorced (and due to the affair) shows some commitment on his behalf. He won’t let go.

So, your wife tells him alas! It’s not to be. Their future vision of riding unicorns into the sunset can’t be. The evil ogre is holding her to family commitments and she’s not free. Maybe in the next life they will be reincarnated as doves and will fly together… Basically she and OM give some forlorn romantic story, about as fake as the affair is.

He might reluctantly agree. And maybe for a week or month they are all courteous and professional. Then they must work together on that schedule that must be turned in by Monday… Then she looks over the desk at the boring meeting and catches his eyes… And she wonders… and he presses… Maybe she brushes past him in the corridor. Maybe she smells him in the elevator… Inevitably it happens.

The relapse.

My suggestion? Well… it’s basically the same one I have been offering for the last years.

Let go of the outcome. Decide what you want to do and be clear on that. Base what you want on what YOU can get and YOU can attain.

Like now – As I have explained I don’t put any value on her promise it’s over if that’s the ONLY change. Therefore, I would hope your decision on what you want to do is solely to get out of infidelity. Especially since the first steps on both R and D are the same path (or parallel paths).

I would hope you could tell your wife something like this:

“Wife – Sharing you is worse than losing you. While you are cheating I have already lost you and all that’s really left is the formal process of ending our marriage. I can survive losing you, but I will die if I must share you.

You kept this affair secret from me for 4 years and you are totally capable of hiding it from me today or tomorrow. Right now, there is no trust. I can’t prevent you from seeing OM. You are totally free to be with OM. You can date him, meet with him, work with him… whatever. BUT NOT AS MY WIFE. I refuse to share you.

I refuse to remain in infidelity. All I can control is me. I am getting out of infidelity and simply assuming you have chosen the OM and infidelity over me. I am initiating all the many steps needed to formally and emotionally separate our relationship.

If you want this marriage then I would be willing to at least try to solve the issues, but for that to happen you must freely and willingly tell me you want to remain married. You also need to accept some actions that are required to even make me THINK we have a salvageable situation.

Until and unless I hear you accept this and you show me with actions then I am simply moving on”

And that’s what you do. No threats. It’s not as if you can throw her out and change the locks. But irrespective of HER response you learn about the D process. You get to know your rights. You expose to all that can help or influence your wife. You move on towards Out of Infidelity, and look over your shoulder to see if she’s coming with you. You can control the pace, but always keep some momentum.

The ring? (this suggestion is more for the fun of it rather than me expecting you to do it…)

Get a bucket of ice-cream and eat it – swallowing the ring with one of the scoops. Wait for half a day or so and when you need to do your number two’s then deposit the ring into the now-empty ice-cream container. Close container and return ring to owner.

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:07 AM, March 23rd (Friday)]

To answer your question sjs, mine didn't. After 4 years of waiting to see if WW could come to the table enough to attempt R (well, 3 years - the last year was trying to get her to leave).

Same kind of story. 4 years with a COW. She was his supervisor. Travelled the province from one end to the other and one side to the other. Everywhere I go they have been and fucked including one pasture and my office area in my house. His house was 5 minutes from where they worked and he lived alone because his wife had caught him fucking a different woman. We were married 25 years when the adultery started.

I found out 7 years after it was over. She never ended it. We moved over two hours away to a ranch we bought where we were going to retire and live happily ever after. She did an NC phone call using a script she wrote that was apologetic and she didn't want to hurt him. Didn't matter fuck that she hurt (what an inadequate word) me.

The marriage can survive. It depends mostly on your WW. The part that depends on you is if you want to even try. There's no shame in it actually being a deal breaker for you. If you want to see if R is possible it's up to her to convince you that it is possible. Actions speak louder than words.

For some the decision to D is made right away. A deal breaker is a deal breaker. If that is what they need that's okay. For others, me included, I needed time even though I had told my WW that if she ever cheated it would be a deal breaker. Life altering decisions made while emotional may not be the best decision.

I would very much object to your WW taking the money and ring back to the COW AP. She should be entirely NC. Meeting him just provides a "legitimate" reason to see each other again. To state their devotion to each other. You've had some excellent suggestions about what to do with the money and ring. How do you know the adultery hasn't gone underground?

Talk to a lawyer immediately to find out your rights in your jurisdiction. Start separating assets as recommended in a post above. Your WW needs to be checked for STDs with written results you will see. Get a VAR and keep it on you at all times. You can't trust her until she earns your trust back. I would recommend a polygraph. How do you know if this was her first offence?

Openness and transparency are required. For R to be considered your WW needs to get into IC. You need it to. I have severe PTSD that I've had 20 hours of therapy for it now. The therapy is helping. Do not go directly to marriage counselling (MC). To often that will re-traumatize the betrayed.

My heart goes out to you. You are in for a rough ride whether you reconcile or divorce. A common saying here is 2 to 5 years to heal. Healing won't start until out of infidelity. Trickle truth (TT) and new disclosures restart the calendar. Total honesty, openness and transparency from her is required. Trust is earned.

Can the marriage survive? Should it survive? Is survive enough? Can it flourish? These are questions you need to answer for yourself. What is best for you? Do what is best for you and you alone.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 7:00 AM, March 23rd (Friday)]

I'm sorry, but it is over.

Let her go and get your life together and move on.

Have you read 180 yet? If not, do so and Implement completely

It will start to rebuild your self esteem and pride.

Sorry

sadjustsad I have been where you are and I know the numbing pain you are in. I'm so sorry you are the victim of a selfish person.

The one thing you need to know, more than anything else, is that you are not required to make any immediate decisions. In fact, you are in no shape right now to be making any rational decisions.

You haven't said much about how your WW is acting, but I urge you not to pay much attention to her right now. Right now the wheels are spinning in her head. She's looking for a way to make this crisis go away as quickly as possible.

First off, believe nothing that comes out of her mouth. She's going to lie to you, just as she has been lying for the last five years. She's going to say cruel things. She may beg, she may put on a big drama show. Don't buy into any of it. Do not forgive her, do not make any promises to her.

If you need to, go somewhere safe, like a hotel or a friend's house if you can. Don't be around her right now.

Try to drink lots of fluids. If you cannot eat, get some protein shakes or drinks with electrolytes and drink those. Take care of yourself. You are wounded and just starting out in this nightmare. So take care of yourself first and foremost.

It stinks that Sad hasn't been back. I know he's busy and all but an update would be nice

It stinks that Sad hasn't been back. I know he's busy and all but an update would be nice

here's the update. First off, thanks to everyone for the advice. I do wish I had ignored the part about getting to know all the details. That's my personality anyway so I was going to ask. It's made it worse so maybe I'll stop asking. So here's the update. You read what happened, my wife had an affair with a co-worker for about 4 1/2 years. I got a lot of details. She told me on several occasions she tried to stop it. But she never followed through with it. I was convinced it was over. It was just too much to take. But I had a secret. One that I never wanted to expose but one that she suspected. About 13 years ago, I too had an affair. It lasted maybe 6-8 months. and it was something that I'll never forgive my self for. Never. If you look back at my original post the last line says is 4 years any worse than 1? That was a way of saying it w/o saying it. When I went to friends and family to ask them for advice for my wife's situation, I admitted my affair too. I told them I can't hold myself to a higher standard than my wife. No matter how upset I was, I couldn't divorce her because I did the same thing. They all said I must tell her so I did. I was scared to death. When I told her she cried grabbed me and said "we can get through this. We both need help." I answered her EVERY question. And since I was being honest, she decided to be honest and tell me that she knew I had the affair and for about 3 years after finding out she started having revenge sex with a co-worker. Shit. Now she's been with two men! I told her it was over. I could handle one, but not two. Then I took a long hard look at myself. I pushed her in to that 1st affair. If I hadn't screwed up, lied and cheated, she wouldn't have either. I told her I forgive her and took responsibility for causing it. And I mean that. But now we're back to square one. It's been a roller coaster weekend. We've talked, yelled and held each other. She has shown 100% remorse and is doing EVERYTHING to erase the past and earn my trust back. She's reading this message board, bought the book after the affair and is listening to podcast on the situation. She wants to do IC and find out why she had the 2nd affair. Why she felt helpless to leave it and why she was unhappy at home. I can't ask for more. We will take all the steps to rebuild and save this marriage. No guarantee that it will be, but at least we can say she, we tried. To everyone here that offered advice, I thank you and I'm sorry I wasn't honest with you in my original post. It wanted to pretend it never happened. I will still visit this site daily, it truly helps.

[This message edited by sadjustsad at 12:33 PM, March 25th (Sunday)]

All the best to you. There is a madhatters thread under the I Can Relate category.

Perhaps you can heal together. Perhaps you can't. Best wishes for each of you either way. Make sure you each heal.

2 affairs and 4.5 years is so much worse than 6-8 months. So much deeper. However, you have chosen to forgive. Revenge affairs still are pretty evil.

The ball is in your court. She has made a fool out of you at work too. All of the people she works with thinks less of you.

I wouldn'tget over it but I am not you.

She said you two can get through it, that was more her being relieved that she got away with the affair IMO.

In all good faith, I wish you two the best of luck.

Sorry you're here. I don't know the answers to your questions, I don't know if I can get over 7.5 months. I feel your pain though.

I'm in the middle of this as well.

19 years married/25 together - WH had a 3 year LTA. I am 8 months post DDay. I'm riding the roller coaster pretty hard.

The only thing I can tell you is you don't have to decide anything permanent now.

badmemory said it best.

I see you've contacted a lawyer and a counselor. Good. They will help you sort things out and know your options.

Please take good care of yourself.

(((sadjustsad))) Solidarity and Hugs.

SJS,

In another thread, you mentioned that you are having a hard time with mind movies. A lot of people have found that EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) therapy has helped.

Google 'EMDR Therapy', and you can find a lot of information about it.

Sending you strength, and wishing you well.

23 years married for me too, won't be 24

I found out from a text also, almost four years ago and that affair was going on for at least four years.

I tried to live with it and to forgive. She was still at least maintaining the emotional affair. I caught her at least a few times doing that.

I forgave. She kept working with the guy, co owner of a small business. I made the decision to try to live with it despite everyone telling me it would never work out

They were all right, including many in here. I was dead wrong

She pulled away from me again, told me it was menopause, about 18 months ago. Nope

She was still blowing the guy.

Oh, did I mention she also has a boyfriend she took to Vegas to bang?

Yeah

Not saying give up on your marriage. Don't, not if you want to save it and think it can be. Just keep your eyes open and don't compromise on shit that isn't compromisable

Stay strong

Having your own affair throws a wrench into things

Sorry, didn't read that until after I posted

You both have shit to apologize for, to forgive, and possibly reconcile

Good luck

that's a horrible story Brokenbad

Western

Right? If it didn't happen to me I wouldn't believe it in a movie!

I think the two of you can reconcile, but I also think you should divorce.

No I'm not being a smartass. I think your marriage is toxic and diseased and fake, and you need to kill it. Both you and your wife have treated each other deplorably. You lie to each other, keep secrets, betray each other. You have been roommates who have lived together for 25 years but know nothing about each other.

I think you two need to divorce because, even if you "reconcile" I don't see any way either you or her keep from cheating again in the future. She has cheated twice...that she has admitted to...and that makes her a serial cheater. Before you agree to anything you should both take polygraph tests. I have a feeling she will fail hers. I don't for one second believe she has had only two affairs.

But it doesn't necessarily mean the two of you should split up. I do however think you need to separate for a while and let a divorce go through and, in the meantime, attend some serious independent counseling, both of you. Then after a time do some couples counseling and maybe start dating again and build a new relationship.

Maybe live together again one day, but don't ever legally marry again. Neither of you deserves marriage do you?