SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Seems to me that you have enough evidence to go for an at-fault divorce, thereby skipping the 12 month separation!

Show your boys how a man deals with infidelity!

head up, shoulders back, and file for divorce ASAP!

Show them that infidelity is never to be tolerated!!!

Have her served without warning. Maybe set up a time and day which you will meet at her office and tell her you will pick her up and go talk. But instead of you showing up, it BBC will be process server, hopefully in full uniform, and for all her partners to see!!!

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 6:29 PM, July 27th (Monday)]

It amuses me that people can take my words and mold them to say what they want them to say. I didn't realize I was the "resident cheater's apologist". One thing I have observed in life is there are a great number of people that have only one side to their coin. That side holds their interpretation and views of everything and there is no side for anyone else views. Only one side to their coin. There is no place anyone can site where I have expressed being an advocate of cheating. I an an advocate for taking responsibility for contributions to any situation.

I was once on a combat operation (2 Americans and 120 Montagnards) when we engaged in a firefight with some NVA soldiers. They were trying to kill us and we were trying to do the same to them. WE won. My montagnards were searching the NVA equipment for intelligence when one Montagnard came to me smiling and gave me a picture. It was of a pretty Vietnamese woman and two little girls. War became real for I had contributed to making her a widow and those little girls orphans. (btw it was in Vietnam and yes I'm in my early 70's and still kicking) The operation was completely by the book and I was right in how it was conducted. It still did not take away my contribution to making a widow and two orphans. That is the responsibility I speaking of. No matter if you feel you are completely right in a situation you still contributed. You can make contributions and still be unaware of what will be the end results. And some things you never forget.

Not every marriage can be saved. In many relationships there are people who are going to cheat no matter what. It's in their DNA.

I read where men are susceptible to what they see and women by what they hear. A sexy woman in a short dress that is really low cut can be a real temptation to a man who is continually ignored by his SO. A sweet talking man with complements dripping like honey and taking time with a women who's SO has ignored her for years. Does it make cheating justified. Not in the least. Could there be something that led up to the end result. Could be. There must be thousands of such stories on SI that has these factors.

AHguy it is evident your love language is "Acts of Service". I can relate because so is mine. (I have changed my share of diapers. When I was home I was super Dad. Your wife's love language is "Words of Affirmation and Quality Time". By your own words you were giving yours but she wasn't getting hers. This takes compromise.(which I have done my share of) You go out and have her kind fun one night and she and does something you like on another night. Besides love, there are two other elements that makes a good marriage. Effective communication. That means you both listen to what each other is saying and fixing things if they need fixing. The other is compromise. You made a statement a while back that caught my attention. You said "it's my way or the highway". The only way a marriage can survive under this condition is if you are married to a complete submissive. If this is what your marriage was based on then I would have advised you to get a divorce 5 or 6 years ago when she started changing. If you do decide to reconcile and you expect to make no changes, no compromise, then divorce is the right route to take. You will both be better off.

You still need to tell her about the POS OP other affairs and tell her she was 5th in line after his wife and his other 3 affairs. Get the restraining order.

Does anyone really believe that everyone tells the whole truth when the make post on SI. After I retired from the army I worked 20 years for DOC. I have integrated many prisoners. About 10% or so would tell me the whole truth. The rest would tell a story that put themselves in the best light. I fully believe that AHguy has given us the whole story. He didn't go easy on himself and he related exactly how he felt. I believe him to be a very good man with integrity. I hope he makes the decisions that will make his life what he wants it to be. I do wish you well.

P.S. Everyone has their own opinions and have a right to them. Those that make snide remarks about my view of things, I have been chewed out by the best. Colonels, generals, and more. Doesn't keep me from having a good day.

I’m almost 100% certain that I’m filing for divorce I just have to figure out how I’m going to do it. If it wasn’t for my business I’ll be gone. I will send Steven‘s letter I just have to work on adding some to it.

This is the "best" time for negotiations while she's still feels somewhat guilty for her huge betrayal, make sure she sends that NC FOREVER text to OM first, you don't want him "coaching her" through out the D process, you're still in shock and I know you didn't want this so it's okay for you to still have doubts about filing, I will remind you that the process can be stopped or delayed if she comes around, you may even date her after and even remarry her after D (we've seen that too here), but she told you she was contemplating it even before OM so if it's going to happen, file first, the one that files typically has control of the process in case you want to stop it/delay it.

Give her the letter, wait for her response and tell her that a follow up conversation needs to take place (she's been wanting that talk too), ask all your questions (remember to write them down first so that you don't miss any), if she agrees to do all the necessary work, tell her that there will be no guarantees, ask her if out of "respect" and since she used your services during her A, if she would be willing to sign a post-nuptial agreement that she won't touch your business and you won't touch her Real Estate business/income either, and that in the event of D everything else would be split 50/50. Again the time to put all that in writing is now before she lawyers up (if she hasn't talked to one already).

IMO she is doing what she thinks is the best way to contain the meses she has created.

Mrhealed

Your wife had three priorities and her life was great:

1. A stable and secure day to day life with you

2. A good church going reputation with family and community

3. Dating the OM for excitement

She would have kept all three going forever if she could but she was caught. Now she is salvaging what she can and you’re the key.

Obviously she needs you to take her back to achieve #1 but she also needs you for #2.

Getting back with you is the most efficient way to rehabilitate her reputation. For example your daughter is mad at her. If you take her back she can say to your daughter: “Your father forgave me, why can’t you.”

This same tactic will also work with the community in general.

My point is that she’s not willing to walk over hot coals now to get you back because she suddenly rediscovered the deep love she always had for you. She’s doing the smart things to salvage as much of her old life that she can. (I.e. get back #1 and #2)

she said she was complementing D before meeting the OM,

AHGuy

Because she didn’t value you even before her affair, I would say #2 was more important to her than #1.

[This message edited by Michigan at 10:30 PM, July 27th (Monday)]

AHGuy,

Ok. I suggest you prepare a plan to go forward.

You are almost certain you want D. I’m not sure the letter will help you much in that case. At worst, she will argue that you are partly to blame, at best she will take responsibility and start to do the work for R. But you want to D.

When you divorce, you and your WW go your separate ways. It doesn’t matter anymore what she thinks and what her family thinks. You will probably never see her family again, it’s just the way it is.

You might want to discuss different D options though. You could agree to D as “no fault” and in exchange, get a more favorable settlement. Talk to your lawyer. It’s a business transaction and everything is negotiable.

In terms of how you are feeling right now... I just hate that part. It’s really really hard. Can you slow down your business a little? Ask your brother to come visit? If the position were reversed, would you help your brother? Now is the time to accept the support of others, you need it.

To summarize....

1. Focus on making D to your advantage

2. Even if you have a busy business, make some time to be with friends & family.

Hi AHGuy,

I think the one important point you are overlooking is she is still talking to him, they are still communicating. She is still in an ACTIVE affair. She showed you the texts. She hasn’t even blocked him, sent a no contact letter or made any attempts to cut him off. Shes not remorseful at all. This is 100% regret. I’m glad you talked to an attorney. You need to go shock and awe because she is playing chess to your checkers and maybe that will shake something loose.

to my surprise my liberal dominant state still recognizes Adultery as ground for divorce if it's proven or confessed. But the lawyer said it’s not commonly used.

AHGuy

The above is leverage. Church lady will not want to officially be divorced for her adultery in public records.

I can go that route to avoid a mandatory 12 months separation or we can do a no-fault mutual consent for absolute Divorce. Otherwise 12 months separation is a must.

AHGuy

Don’t give up on officially using adultery just because "it’s not commonly used". Get something for it. You have independent, professional proof of it. She has confessed to multiple people. Do you think she would want to fight you in court as to if she committed adultery or not?

At least get credit for taking it off the table and going for no-fault mutual consent. Offer to give it up to make things amicable. Tell her that you just want to keep your business and livelihood intact.

The implication will be that if she tries to take your business you'll use it.

She would be fired if the company knew about her affair no doubt but I'm not really sure how was that handled and if her partners know or not. I assume they do. I know for sure one of them knew about the A.

AHGuy

If her adultery were officially noted in public court records her partners wouldn’t have the option of turning a blind eye. It sounds like they would have to fire her even if they didn’t want to.

Let’s review. You don’t want to officially use adultery because you’re a nice guy. But if she tries to take your livelihood you will.

Adultery appearing in public records may cause her to lose her livelihood. Seems fair to me.

Mutually assured destruction (MAD) is a doctrine of military strategy and national security policy in which a full-scale use of nuclear weapons by two or more opposing sides would cause the complete annihilation of both the attacker and the defender

Also, you have victim status now that will degrade with time. Get divorced ASAP.

If you might want her back someday, make her earn her way back. Tell her if things go great you may remarry. This will motivate her to give you better terms.

But for now get a divorce ASAP

P.S. Personally I wouldn’t remarry her even if things were great. I would just shack up.

[This message edited by Michigan at 1:38 AM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

Well sir your post didn’t come off the way you intended. And I’ll leave it with this, one vet to another: I have ABSOLUTELY NO part in the widows and orphans created when some AQIQ insurgent decided to cross paths with my Team. Just as AH had ABSOLUTELY NO part in his WW’s A!

Can’t sleep for more than 2 hours . I’ve up since 3:00 thinking about my life. I understand your concern but no way I can get myself to destroy her in any way if we go to court, if D is what we end up doing I want it to be as amicable as possible. I hate what she did for sure I’m disgusted by her but I don’t hate her and strangely I still care for her. The D will cost me a lot maybe even my business but that’s nothing compared to loosing a 28 year relationship and the only woman I’ve been with.

She wants a second chance she came to me last night and begged for it, she seems to be getting guidance from someone or maybe a site like this one because of the terminology she used. She rubbed my back while I just Laid on my bed and didn’t say a word. I wanted to hug her and kiss her but at the same time I wanted to tell her to get the fuck out of my face. It took everything in me to not do either. I’m working on my letter, it will be based on what Steven suggested I just need to add some stuff .

AH, please, please if nothing else sinks in, please just heed the following:

There is nothing like an amicable divorce.

I am going to repeat it, just for it to have a chance to sink in.

There is nothing like an amicable divorce.

It doesn’t happen. It is always personal, it is always dirty and it is always gloves of.

Now the following absolutely crucial sentence.

The party hoping for an amicable divorce always looses their shirt.

Your wife is in self-defence mode to try to save her reputation, that is it. She will love bomb you, she will go to great extents, but the moment it fails, she is taking the gloves off.

To be honest, she already have ducks secretly lined up as a back-up plan and we all know that she is quite adept at keeping secrets.

If you fail to protect yourself, If you fail to be willing to fight dirty and go to the matt fully, you are going to loose everything in a divorce.

Take it from someone who once tried to be the nice guy for the sake of sentiment. It will bite you in the backside.

Lawyer up and never, ever, hamstring your lawyer. Never reign in your lawyer and if your lawyer is not a shark, you will be done in.

This is not a game, this is the rest of your life you are fighting for here. Just remember, you did not pick this fight, but you have to fight it to the best of your ability without being hamstrung by emotion or you will severely jeopardize your own future.

There is no time for any weakness, perceived or real on your part. Any weakness is simply blood in shark infested waters at this point.

AH,

Because you are doing the hard 180, a side effect is that it forces your WW to get out of the fog. Maybe she’ll stop with the blame shifting narrative. She might have done some research which is a good thing. Did you tell her her lover is a player?

You are not losing a 28 years relationship, you have lost a 26 year relationship when your WW divorced you 2 years ago without telling you.

IMO, Divorce is not solely “Destroy her” or “lose your shirt”. It can be negociated. Have you ever done negotiations for your business? Ended up with a contract where both parties get what they want? It’s the same thing.

It is possible to D your WW and still love her.

You can also change your mind if your WW is doing everything right to gain back your trust and rebuild a new marriage.

Take care of yourself first.

I agree with ShutterHappy that divorce in theory is dissolving a contract and that it can be negotiated, however, to do that, you need 2 parties, willing to take emotion out of the equation and be open with such negotiations.

My experience and most every experience of other men I have talked to on the subject (they are legion) has been that their wives became vicious and vindictive (emotion) or underhanded, calculating, manipulative and deceitful.

I have yet to speak to a divorced man who could report an amicable and well negotiated dissolution of marriage, aka divorce. [edit for spelling]

Marriage is not a business, hearts are deeply invested with fortunes and personal reputations on the line.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 7:37 AM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

you still have the same, two options. D or R. Whatever you choose, do it thoroughly.

If you divorce, it can be done amicably. You have a trump card of notifying her work. Use it as an incentive for her to be as amicable as possible.

Actually notifying in your situation would be more an act of vengeance. Not worth consideration, but it would be a good deterrent.

If you are still undecided, perhaps waiting another month or two would be appropriate. This would give you time for your emotions to settle, and also time to build relationships with your children.

It is important that you do not disparage your WW to the children. This will most likely cause them to take sides, or may result in them creating ill feeling.

As has been mentioned, take the opportunity to have meaningful interactions. Be honest with them, but avoid speaking harshly of your wife.

Again...see your doctor.

Did she visit to make herself feel good and/or to manipulate you for her own benefit - or 100% out of remorse for destroying a key part of your life, (marriage, wife, family harmony)???

Among other things you're experiencing the 'white knight' syndrome. You're a reliable honest man and therefore it's 'who you are' to always look after your family.

Unfortunately, under the circumstances, you don't really know your wife anymore. She looks the same and her voice is familiar. However, She is different now and you may or may not decide to R or D.

You do know she is an expert liar. Capable of lying to your face day after day for years.

Under the circumstances, IMO treat her as a client (fairly, respectfully, but impersonally) or as a roommate - but not as someone you can trust.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 6:04 AM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

Can’t sleep for more than 2 hours . I’ve up since 3:00 thinking about my life. I understand your concern but no way I can get myself to destroy her in any way if we go to court, if D is what we end up doing I want it to be as amicable as possible. I hate what she did for sure I’m disgusted by her but I don’t hate her and strangely I still care for her. The D will cost me a lot maybe even my business but that’s nothing compared to loosing a 28 year relationship and the only woman I’ve been with.

You're still in love with, still care for the woman you thought you knew.

I am not telling you to stop loving or caring for her, but you need to realize, she is not the person you thought she is.

She may not even realize it herself.

But you need to step back and really and truly look at what she did, how she has treated you, what she has said about and done to you, and really consider who this person is who you are still trying to take care of.

***

I thought you had enough evidence, but now I am recommending that you do some investigating to find out if this is the first time she has betrayed you, how long this has behavior really been going on, etc.

Pull the curtain back on who your wife really is. Because people don't just change overnight. Often they hide who they are.

Her mask fell off, but now she is putting it back on trying to save herself - or more accurately, convince you to save her after she plunged the knife in your back.

Investigate. I can help you, others can help you. The information you uncover will help you decide the right path, which is not to sacrifice yourself to take care of her as much as possible.

AH,

Take your time to process your feelings. The D and R paths are different, and requieres different strategies, e.g. if R her enablers coworker should be gone by quiting her job, if D It doesnt Matter as she needs to keep her job for alimony purposses.

It is norma to care for her, she is your kids mother. She has been your partner for 28 years.

Please tresure those years, tresure the kids that CAME from your marriage. These things are not false!!!

Your WW is not Who she was all those years, It doesnt taint them, with the exception if the Affair years. It is like santa clause, even when your discovered the true, the Joy of previous years is undeniable.

I dont think your WW is Evil, or a bad person. She was selfish, she changed her priorities, she wanted a single Life, and a torrid love with a rich man, more than her family and maybe she still does (I asume you dont know, cant know as she is a proven lier)

D is not the end of the Path, you are linked for Life for the kids you hace, when they get martes, grande donde, etc. So even while hurting rigth now, with time you Will need to have a cordial relations with her, even if she marries OM... Sorry but Infidelity is the gift that keeps giving

You need to work on your self (new clothes, gym, social Life, healty está, etc). Try yo be Happy by your own, It doesnt Matter if De or R, you need to heal your self. She is not going to do It as your WW wont hielo you as she is 100% focused on her self rigth now,

ATM She doesnt get It, she may never do. While keep trying to trade her fidelity with demands, clearly is sendign the messsge that OM can give me that if you are not willing to. IMO, ar least at this point she is not R material, and is still in love with OM and look Up yo him (even when telling her about previous affairs , she Will think thta por OM has been struggling in his marriage for so long...).

IMO - the correct response to a blank sheet is "Figure it out!".

Yeah. You may need to go see the advice the WS get on the wayward side.

It says they can't trust their instincts because they have devalued their spouse so heavily.

That is why things like giving a blank sheet of paper is supposedly important.

They are told to "ASK" their BS what they want.

Heck. Go watch 36YearsGone, Rideitout, and Westway's threads. They wanted 3 different things.

Go try to help a wayward and you will see. They are spinning trying to fix their lives they just threw a hand grenade into.

Do not take this as me giving them a pass. Just they come up with some really dumb/bad ideas.

The sheet is for both of you to see what you need at a minimum to just not leave her. You will expect more later, this is just a bribe to not get divorced.

AH

I am wonderibg if her last chance has anything to do with her comunicación with OM. Please let me elaborate. She was force to "try" for the expositor, but as datas go by on OM is not talking actions as ageed (OM moved out, but hora to MC with her wife, hasnt serve his BW D palets, etc) your WW is going for the plan B , you! In order to make OM react (he wont) and Buu some time.

Sorry but her lack of iniciativa, speaks volume. She hanst resigned, hasnt cleaned your name with the enablers (I believe she exagerated your faults and lessen your virtudes), still communicating with OM ( has she provided a NC letter?), Has offered yo take a Poly? Has she trown away OM gifts, pictures, mementos?....

What kills most marriages is not the A It self, is what the WS does after DDay

If she is truly remorseful, she can show it by NOT taking your business or half of what you've built. She can agree to terms that are best for YOU. If she can't do that, you will know that she is not remorseful and just trying to save her own ass.

You are in love with who you thought she was. She lied. She isn't that person. If you chose to R, you will be R with this other person who you just met. The person who would do this to her family for years and then tell you if only you did XYZ, we could fix this. Take your time. File for d and let her show you her true colors by how she handles the terms that are best for you. The process can go slow or be stopped but you really need to know what she is willing to give up to help you because it really sounds like she is trying to save her ass, not help you heal.

From what she said last night, is there any sign that she read:

"How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful"

by Linda J. MacDonald

and

"Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass

btw: after reading this book your wife should see how she opened the door to infidelity and placed herself on a slippery slope (and how good people become adulterers).

IF NOT, she should be required to read these books prior to further contact.