SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

AH

IMO she is doing what she thinks is the best way to contain the meses she has created.

So, she is acting on the way she belives is the best way to keep you arround. Bcause keeping you arround , in her mind, is equal to "It is not a Big deal". If you can Accept the affair blame, It mean that she is not in the wrong, she was just reacting...of course It is a survivig mechanis, and It doesnt mean that she is blind to her actions and that she knows that she is almost divorced. She is trying her best, in her best effort in her mind , yo keep her status.

If you Talk to her, and tear down all ver walls and empty excuses, IMO she Will adapt and change her startegy, and accept her faults! The thing here is that you havent back fired, and that she is not honest.

IMO, she hasnt answer the ley points:

Her current relation with OM (why stil talking)

How did they enede the Affair;

If she loves him;

And what about their plans?

Is he still talking to enablers?

Did she dan moutjed you to the enablers (you may have not been the model husband, but seems like you did alot for your family, and maybe she painted you on a worse picture)

You dont have

Would be in nligning mover,byo show her the OBS informacion about the OM other affairs, just for you to ser her reaction. I Belice she stil golf OM is a grear spot. She Will of course, explican It as OM being in a bad marriage for very long time. Any how Will be good to asses her reaction to this information.

Lady thing. Take your time, Accept not pressure from anyone, not your kids, family or your WW. She have her time, so it is your turn to do the best for you on your pase.

Ask as many quetions you nerd. And the most importante thing, do the 180, It is notmeant to hey a reaction from your wife, It is meanfor you to detach! You Will get clarity

Why dont you get some vacations on your own?

Last thing, she is reallt Lost about what to need, or what you think, It may be a good idea to let her know that you are not to blame, in any aspect, of her affair. And that her relation, and percepción of OM, is unacceptable

I didn't ask her directly if she loved him I just told her she did based on the texts she sent to him, I questioned how could she love both of us, she said it was different and she was lying to him and herself, she said she loved the way he treated her and cared for her but it wasn't about sex or money for her. I need to ask her if she misses him maybe I'll mention it in my letter.

Then ask her directly and to be honest with you about it, this was a 2 year relationship, did you/do you still love him, do you miss him or the A? Did she ever avoid having sex with you in an effort to not cheat on OM or because she was more attracted to him ? did she ever have sex with both on the same day ? Did she perform sex acts for him that she refused to do with you ? etc., I know these may be tough questions to ask but for many it's better to know now instead of letting it fester, also you know POSOM has had multiple As so an STD is in order for you too, ask her if she ever had one done during the A, she was putting your health at risk, tell her she needs to have one done (full panel) in case you decide to give R a try, plus despite her huge betrayal she's still the mother of your children.

Honestly when she told me I didn't care to ask her why he is still contacting her. it came after I told her that she he dumped her she said it wasn't the case and the OM still want a relationship with her and to prove it she showed me his messages.

Again these are things you should know, if she wants R, how come she has NOT blocked him ? why is she even taking the calls, remember according to her she caved in multiple times before. Tell her to send him an NC FOREVER text in front of you and that he insists legal action will follow including a restraining order and btw send those texts to OBS and the number it came from.

she said she was complementing D before meeting the OM, I'm not sure if she had other affairs before, what I know for sure her chance of life style started before the OM maybe 5 or 6 years ago started complaining about how I behave how I talk even How I eat.

If you read here long enough you will find that these are signs of infidelity, not definite proof but real red flags, I think you should know if this was her first rodeo or not, ask her directly and tell her you want her to take a polygraph test (very important).

her colleague who encouraged her A is the worst kind of people in my opinion, because she always smiled to my face and hugged me and sweat talked to me

Ask her if she's willing to resign and find a different job, see how much she's willing to sacrifice to have a chance to R, she used her real estate business to help cover the A, this would be another consequence of her huge betrayal, plus you don't want to be the joke of the firm every time they see you or at the next Christmas party and/or gathering.

I agree that you have to start taking action, the 180 is good to detach but not enough to deal with the situation at hand, you need more answers to make a better informed decision and you should have them NOW, the call with the D lawyer is a very good step, while you're at it, ask him about a postnuptial agreement in case you eventually decide to give R a chance. I agree with others, it's time to file for D and watch her actions, remember D takes a long time can be stopped or delayed at any time before it's final. Keep posting frequently, we're here for you.

She is doing the blame game. If you want R, she will have to stop blaming you and take full responsibility. No blaming at all. The issues of the marriage are on both you and her, not just you. The affair? That is 100% on her. And I would consider talking to your sons. If they believe you are less than a man because she had an affair, they are sadly mistaken. If possible, have a sit down with your children and talk out what is going on and how you feel. Let them share their thoughts as well and hash it out. As for your wife? Recommend some books for her to read. Go to the Healing Library and check out the list of books there. I may have done this already, but if not, have her read those books. If she truly wants to save her marriage, she must, and I truly mean must, eliminate her friend who supported the affair. She must cut all ties to the POSOM forever, including sending a No Contact letter, or email. You read it before she sends it. No flowery mess. No I will miss you crap. A simple, "We were wrong and did evil in the sight of God. I never want to see or hear you again. I am hopeful that I can same my marriage from the damage that I caused. Never contact me ever again. If you do, I will tell my husband and will contact the police for a cease and desist order against you". Done.

I would tell her about the three other affairs, especially tell her about him having an affair with his best friend’s wife. That is who you had an affair with. Someone that was so shitty, that he had an affair with his best friend’s wife. Think about that. Think about me having an affair with (name her best friend). Or her having an affair with (name your best friend). I would be harsh with it so she can understand fully who she was to him. “You were the third affair that his wife knows of. To him, you are simply another notch on his bed post. You are his fourth affair. And there will be a fifth. What he did and said to you was to keep you around so he can have sex with you whenever he wanted. You were his side piece. Nothing more.” She will not believe it because she is in a fog. But she will come to realize the truth, and it will hurt her big time.

Is there an ethics board that you can report him for what he has done? Just curious.

[This message edited by WilliamM at 10:43 AM, July 27th (Monday)]

AHGUY - It sounds like you really don't want to leave your wife.

I get that. I am still with my wife. I will say that you need to start to think about what goes on that blank sheet of paper. You should ask for Everything you ever wanted! This will give her a big list of things to work through.

She is blaming some of this on the attention. She is early in reconciliation mode and this will change/come to her not really having a good reason other than her being a monster.

You should go read some of the start up posts in the Wayward side. The WW typically have no idea how to make things better. They try everything and/or nothing. They all just keep wishing for a time machine. She is going to need some direction from you.

Tell her she should start a journal daily right now. You should as well. The reason for this is so you can see your progress and her to see her progress. As time goes you 2 will get distorted with all the heavy emotions.

I was/am profiling to show the WS they are put on notice. That retracting it is the BS way of showing they are committed. It also lets the WS see that the BS is not afraid to leave. This makes sure both parties know this marriage could end if this happens again.

I was under the impression your family turned on you but it sounds like they turned on her. That is good because they need to support that you are in pain.

Your wife needs to start talking to fellow WW. They will hold her accountable and not put up with her bull. Your WW is going to get less from people who have never recovered from this kind of pain. The parts where they will force her to be honest with herself and you.

My wife got a few doses of that and it really helped.

I disagree re: the list. Think about - all of us found our way here without having to be told where to go/what to do, because we wanted to understand/solve something. How much effort is really involved in a few Google searches, maybe buying a book or two and sitting down to figure it out? "Please, I'll do anything" is a cop-out, period. Time for AH's wife to adult-up and own her actions, or not.

Oh, I wanted to give my WS a list, but forced myself not to. Far better for her to show me the type of person she really is than to have her pretend to be the kind of person I always thought her to be. And show she me she has.

IMO - the correct response to a blank sheet is "Figure it out!".

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:03 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

... couldn't help not to think what my sons think of me. yes they made it clear to their mom that they were upset with her but they probably think I'm less of man for not meeting her needs and her seeking satisfaction from another man. they've been avoiding me too.

Therapists use a technique called CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) to shut down this kind of negative self-talk. There's really no magic to it and no reason why you can't try it at home. All it entails is catching your inner critic whispering put-downs in your ear like the one above, recognizing the untruth, correcting with the actual truth, and following up with rational discussion. ie. Your boys are NOT 'thinking you're less of a man'. They simply don't know how to react. They've learned, presumably from you, to treat their mother/women with respect. They've never seen you so hurt, and they don't know what to say to either of you. Nothing in their lives has prepared them for something like this. And you know this because they're good boys, you've raised them yourself, and you know they love you. You also know this because you were a teen once yourself, and if you put yourself in their place, you just don't know how to help.

Your inner critic is a slippery slide right into self-pity and depression. Slap his fucking ears back. Correct him when he gets in your ear. Argue back with his nonsense, because it IS nonsense. I don't know why we do it, but most if not all of us, take this pain, turn it inward, and start punishing ourselves like we've done something wrong. It's NORMAL, but that doesn't mean it should be tolerated. Believe me, I know. I ended up in a really nasty depression which lasted a couple of years and broke down most of my longstanding friendships. People can only hang in there with you for so long before they're exhausted. You don't want to allow that to happen, so nip it now.

Which brings me to the alcohol. Alcohol is a depressant but it does cool the anxiety while you're under its influence. What most people don't know though is that it's not just the hangover you deal with the next day... it's a 2x rebound of the anxiety. Better to just go to your doctor, get a script for a mild anti-anxiety tablet, and treat the anxiety effectively. That way, you've got a clear head, no rebound, you're GAINING ground, and you're not creating a drunk on top of all the other shit you've got to deal with. Practically no one gets out of this situation without some stress management assistance from their doctor, so there's no stigma, and believe me when I tell you that your doctor has already heard it all. Nothing is going to shock him/her.

You are at a crossroads in your life. You can't afford to allow your inner critic to run roughshod over you, nor can you drown your problems in a bottle. Be wise and set an example for your youngsters in how one deals with major-league stress. See your doctor. And talk with your boys. Have the kind of talk with them that you'd want if you were cusping on adulthood and seeing your own father walking through hell.

Your a good guy, AH. And you're actually handling this situation remarkably well even though it might not feel like it. Remember that.

Great advice from ChamomileTea!

ie. Your boys are NOT 'thinking you're less of a man'. They simply don't know how to react. They've learned, presumably from you, to treat their mother/women with respect. They've never seen you so hurt, and they don't know what to say to either of you. Nothing in their lives has prepared them for something like this. And you know this because they're good boys, you've raised them yourself, and you know they love you

ChamomileTea, thank you for explaining the inner critic whispers phenomenal, I will try to fight it, it is just how I feel, keep in mide that my boys have been closer to their mom than me, she spoiled them and made them mommy’s boys while I’ve always been the discipline enforcer that’s why I can’t help not think what they’re thinking about the tough dad being humiliated. I also feel bad for them too they gotta be shocked, when I told my oldest about his mom he first wanted to charge at me like if I was making things up, maybe he didn’t want to believe it I had to show him the letter that the other wife sent me and photos of his mom with the OM, my youngest was and still upset with her..

Has your WW talked to your children and apologized to them for her huge betrayal ? If not, this is crucial regardless of R or D, they need reassurance that no matter what you both will be there to support them, that this was NOT your fault and 100% on her, they were betrayed too and their stability (both financial and emotional) has been put at risk, if she has not apologized to them one on one (you may want to be present during the apologies to make sure she doesn't blameshift), make sure you include that in your letter, btw sending the letter is a good thing but you should do a thorough follow up conversation to bring more clarity and make more informed decisions, you should face this head on and take action, sending letters back and forth has its limitations (good and bad), they don't always convey all the emotions or the face and body expressions.

My suggestion is that, as soon as she responds to the letter and you talk to the attorney, follow up with a thorough follow up conversation with her and write down some of the tough questions suggested (NC FOREVER text to OM and colleague/resignation as well as whether she still misses him and/or the A should be at the top of the list) so that you don't forget anything this time.

After that file for D, tell her she destroyed the M and if there's a chance to R there would have to be a new M (or NOT!), see how she treats you and her concessions during the D process and the separation of assets, tell her you will re-evaluate the situation after the D is final but with no guarantees, that she would have to take this leap of faith, and that it may take you up to 2 years (the length of her A) to make a decision, remember she was contemplating D before the A, so make it real for her and watch her actions, remember to insist on a complete timeline of the A and to ask her point blank if she had been unfaithful before, make sure you tell her answers will be subject to a polygraph.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 2:03 PM, July 27th (Monday)]

...I can’t help not think what they’re thinking about the tough dad being humiliated.

It's okay to let them see your humanity, and better if you draw them in, so they know you're okay. Take a mini-fishing trip. Go to a car show. Spend time with them. That way, if they have questions, you can answer them.

It's best, even with older kids, not to be divisive, like you're asking them to choose a camp or something. But providing facts without editorializing is keeping them inside your inner sanctum, so they have a place in your life that they know is theirs. It's okay to tell them that you don't know what you're going to do yet, or even that you're more hurt than you ever thought you could be. You just assure them that you're still Dad, and that whatever happens that's something which doesn't change.

Our kneejerk reaction to emotional trauma is just like our kneejerk reaction to physical trauma... we curl in on ourselves. Don't be like me though, going fucking fetal and end up living in your own head. It took me years to break that habit and I'd driven off all but a very few key family members by the time I was done. Make a pact with yourself that you're going to get out and spend some time with those boys several times a week. Kids might gravitate to their mothers for emotional nurturing, but they need their dads to show them that they're strong enough to negotiate life. It's good for all three of you to do that male bonding thing... even if there are sometimes tears between the bowling alley and the hot dog stand.

AHGuy,

A lot of the posts here focus on your WW. But what about you? What are you doing nowadays?

Sending your WW stevens letter might mean you are thinking about R, but you sometimes say you want o go the D path. Are you running around in circle?

Have you told your family? Can you take a break from the basement and go visit your family?

Lawyer consultation update: good, bad and ugly.

My state allows for either at-fault or no fault Divorce and to my surprise my liberal dominant state still recognizes Adultery as ground for divorce if it's proven or confessed. But the lawyer said it’s not commonly used. I can go that route to avoid a mandatory 12 months separation or we can do a no-fault mutual consent for absolute Divorce. Otherwise 12 months separation is a must. The ugly part is that she will be entitled to half of everything including my business, to buy her out of my business and my house I would probably need to give her my part of my rental house and a huge amount of money depending on how the court would appraise my business. They are other solutions like giving up both houses and buy out just the business, but all will depend on how she is willing to cooperate. There are other solutions for the business that I rather not share in public. Best scenario for divorce is the consensual absolute if she agrees.

It really sucks that I would have to give up so much for something I never wanted.

AHGuy,

A lot of the posts here focus on your WW. But what about you? What are you doing nowadays?

Sending your WW stevens letter might mean you are thinking about R, but you sometimes say you want o go the D path. Are you running around in circle?

Have you told your family? Can you take a break from the basement and go visit your family?

I’m not doing very good to be honest, I just keep myself busy to not think too much about it. I’m almost 100% certain that I’m filing for divorce I just have to figure out how I’m going to do it. If it wasn’t for my business I’ll be gone. I will send Steven‘s letter I just have to work on adding some to it.

All of my close family know,Only my brother lives close to me I have a sister that lives in Colorado she knows everything and my parents live in Florida Do not know all the details but didn’t know she had an affair. Her family know too.

I don’t think I can take a break from work right now July and August are my busiest month I have five people working for me including my son I can’t just let them all down. I thought about going to Florida for a week or 2 but it won’t be right.

AH Guy I don’t often post but your story touched me. You don’t deserve any of this! You are doing very well, no matter what you may think. Keep posting here as you proceed. We are ALL in support.

I wish there was a quick fix for this. Unfortunately, either R or D requires a lengthy process.

Her adultery may give you some negotiating leverage if she prefers a clean no fault divorce vs her adultery going down in the permanent history of the court records.

See your doctor for help sleeping and mood swings. He can give you something that will allow you to sleep and give you a break (for a week) from the emotional roller coaster.

There are other solutions for the business that I rather not share in public

Yep. A friend of mine used one of those “other” options. The court did not like it, but he came out ahead.

Stay strong man. You are in the thick of it right now. But it will get better in time.

Her adultery may give you some negotiating leverage if she prefers a clean no fault divorce vs her adultery going down in the permanent history of the court records.

Agreed. Sometimes the WS will give up quite a lot in order to avoid public embarrassment. In some states you can have the AP subpoenaed or deposed, so there's an extra layer of humiliation to be bartered.

Unfortunately, divorce isn't your choice alone. You might decide to go for R in order to keep your estate together but what's to say that the R will be successful? Worst case scenario, you give it a try, she decides she's not hap-hap-happy enough and divorces you anyway. Same 50/50 split. If you do decide to try for R, talk to your attorney about a post-nup. And I wouldn't limit it to "only applies if she commits adultery again". It should cover anything which arises.

Soon reading your posts, I had two questions.

First, if you did most of the work inside and outside the house, and took care of the kids, what exactly did you ww do all day? Frankly, you sound like what most women need and want.

Second, do I understand you to say that her idea of being together is watching tv? What shows? If you say dancing with the stars my head will explode so decide accordingly.

But won’t you get 50% of her share of her business?

As the saying goes....

do you know why divorces cost so much?

Because they are worth it.

Since her affair was work-related, have her served at work!

Duplicate posting. Sorry

[This message edited by Newlifeisgreat at 6:30 PM, July 27th (Monday)]