SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hellfire, I probably should have made myself more clear. She's not responding to anyone from her job, male or female. I am pretty friendly guy and the way she responds to any kind of communication not regarding work are borderline rude. I told her it's ok to talk to other people and we spoke about what's ok and what's not. These are the kinds of boundaries I meant. I don't want her to isolate herself, because the only people besides me she talks with now are her sister and one of her friends who lives 2h away.

Yeah that stalker.. I would not touch that with a 10 foot pole. She is definitely not my friend, we met like 4 or 5 times in a group, like 5 years ago. No idea how she got my number and email adress. I was very clear that I am not interested and told her to leave me and my family alone. My wife knows everything and I show her every email and message I get. It's obviously making her uncomfortable so I try to not leave any place for some kind of misunderstandment.

And I am definitely not going to talk to her or even reply, not by myself and not with my W present. I just tell my W, delete and block and hope she will get bored and leave us alone. Entertaining her would just make things worse I think.

Oh and one thing previously not disclosed came up yesterday. Out of the blue STBXW told me the fucker grabbed her hand and put it on his dong in their car session. That's why she run away. She didn't tell me because she didn't want me to go kill him. I am contemplating what to do with this new info

If that is as she said, she needs to report sexual harassment or straight up sexual assault. Any actions less than that is just protecting the other guy. You need not have a hand in ruining that other guy's life because your STBXW can literally do the most correct thing and deal with it by herself.

She needs to report it. Or she is protecting him. Period.

I disagree. She was in the car making out with him. He made a move that was consistent with what one may expect in that situation. She continued to date him afterwards.

Now, it COULD have been assault, but the crux of the issue is that she is still holding information back from Fibble. It’s almost always under the guise of ‘protecting’ their spouse.

She’s not as good of a candidate for reconciliation as I thought she may have been.

Let’s see......OM having his hand up her skirt was not the reason she stop the car session, but him guiding her hand to his dick was? Funny how you don’t seem to bother by this revelation.

Isn't this a weird detail to confess? Toby is right. Him touching her was okay but somehow this is a line too far? It's not like your WW is so naive that she doesn't understand that making out doesn't lead to further touching and sex between two adults. Running out of the car sounds more like something a confused teenager would do. Not a grown ass woman cheating on her husband. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense and generally when I've seen a WS admit to a strange detail like this, it's a set up for more trickle truth.

Has she ever given you a timeline of the A? Now would be a good time to ask. If she's willing to prove that this is as far as it went, she would be willing to take a polygraph test, right?

Other things to consider - is your WW generally naive and immature in other ways? Is she not experienced with sex and intimacy in general? Has she ever made out with you and stopped before it progressed any further? I'm guessing some of the answers to these questions will reveal why you too don't seem to think her story sounds believable.

I was waiting for this sort of info, not surprised...but it opens the door for "what else". Here you thought you had all the info, and now this bit of trickle truth.

She may think of it as a good thing, getting something off her mind but she had plenty of time to do that. Why now?

What is the truth? Her story or did she grab his dong, or more? Who knows if there is more.

On the bright side she is putting a wall up between work personal as a way to show that she will not again get personal with workers. If I were you I would not try to micromanage how she enforeces her boundaries.

Ok this changes things a bit....

Oh and one thing previously not disclosed came up yesterday. Out of the blue STBXW told me the fucker grabbed her hand and put it on his dong in their car session. That's why she run away.

It’s been many, many weeks since D-Day, and she brings this up now? Not when you told her you needed to know everything? Ok.

So that’s trickle truth, which sets the clock all the way back to the start. And it does cast a shadow on her potential as R material.

She didn't tell me because she didn't want me to go kill him.

Really? Are you that type of guy? Are you so hot headed that you would run out and beat up a guy who your wife willingly made out with, had his hand up her skirt, and then put her hand on his junk? If so then I guess her excuse might make sense.

But it is much, much more likely she was just omitting it to minimize damage, and cover her own ass.

Well, he was pursuing her. Wanted another notch on his belt so to say..

She took a very big gamble in divulging this. A big gamble.

You will need to decide if you need to hear every detail that occurred.. Every detail.. Or if you have enough for you to put it behind you and move on.

Consider that every detail may cause you to restart the mind movies.

One thing you know for sure is that she removed herself from the situation when it became too hot for her to handle.

You appear to be on a path of healing that you have forged yourself...and reading your posts, your heart is revitalizing.

It does take 2 to 5 years to finally consider yourself reconciled, so these occurrences will occur in your initial reconciliation period.

Your path thus far has been one of you taking control, and you setting the pace and the direction that your marriage will be taking.

To your wife's credit, she has responded in a way to show that she is endeavoring to help you in your decisions.

Remember it takes 2 to 5 years. In your instance, with the remorse and actions of both of you, maybe less.

God bless.

Oh and one thing previously not disclosed came up yesterday. Out of the blue STBXW told me the fucker grabbed her hand and put it on his dong in their car session. That's why she run away. She didn't tell me because she didn't want me to go kill him. I am contemplating what to do with this new info

What you should be doing with this information is thinking about what it will do to you when you are once again fully invested in your relationship with her and "feeling safe", and then you learn additional bad things she did that she held back, lied, and minimized, only telling you at her convenience when she thinks it is okay for you to know.

I don't mean to say "I told you so" - but I will re-iterate: The only thing you can absolutely count on with cheaters is that they will lie and there is always more and/or worse than whatever they admitted to.

You have zero chance at getting to the real truth from your wife/ex-wife without a timeline under threat of polygraph.

She hasn't done the work, she hasn't put in the time, and every indication to me, despite protestations to the otherwise, is that she is simply trying to get/stay out of trouble, even if that means divorcing and (she hopes) remarrying - because telling you the whole story will cause you to leave her forever.

This further detail does not indicate the remorse and honesty one needs in a successful reconciliation. Be prepared for more "trickle truth" which really just equals "an extended period of lying which will eat at the betrayed spouse".

If that is as she said, she needs to report sexual harassment or straight up sexual assault. Any actions less than that is just protecting the other guy.

How would that go?

Dear Sexual Harassment Authorities - I was cheating on my husband with this other man which included constant love-talk and messages, making out, and stealing off to his car where he could get under my clothes. And then while we were in the car, he had the nerve to think I would touch his penis! I am totally sexually harassed, please take appropriate action against this man who I willingly did all of this stuff with.

I think Sharkman put it better:

I disagree. She was in the car making out with him. He made a move that was consistent with what one may expect in that situation. She continued to date him afterwards.

Now, it COULD have been assault, but the crux of the issue is that she is still holding information back from Fibble. It’s almost always under the guise of ‘protecting’ their spouse.

She’s not as good of a candidate for reconciliation as I thought she may have been.

***

One thing you know for sure is that she removed herself from the situation when it became too hot for her to handle.

Really? We "know this"? I don't understand how the words of liars and cheaters are considered fact.

All we really know is that A) She cheated, B) When confronted she lied and deleted information and C) she has continued lying and holding back information.

That we "know for sure".

To your wife's credit, she has responded in a way to show that she is endeavoring to help you in your decisions.

She has? Further lying? Trickle truth? Erratic behavior followed by I guess okay behavior followed by weird behavior with her colleagues followed by more trickle truth?

***

Mr. Flibble - I guess it comes back to you being comfortable with moving on with her feeling that you know "enough". Just know that you'll never know it all.

One tried and true cheater technique is to "lie specifically". For example if the question is "did you have sex?" maybe a cheater leaves out blowjobs, handjobs, penetrations, sexting, dirty talk, videos/photos, and all sort of rubbing and any other act short of penis in vagina sex. See? It's the truth!

Your wife telling you that she left out the part of the story where he tried to put her hand on his dick, because she was afraid you might kill him? That is pure unmitigated bullshit.

Also, I absolutely would question that story as told by her. He grabbed her hand and put it on his dick? Sounds sketchy and unrealistic.

It sounds more like to me that she is trying to soft-peddle that she touched his dick during their private petting session(s) by making it sound like "he made her do it", and then even if she admits that she actually touched his dick herself, she will minimize what she actually did.

Try to view her stories through the lens of "If my buddy told me that his wife said this to him, would I believe it?". That will give you more clarity.

And Dude. When two adults privately get into a car to fuck around, they fuck around. She did not get into a car with him to admire the upholstery.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 2:27 PM, February 27th (Saturday)]

You need to be mindful in these forums.. take what you need and leave the rest.

Your actions thus far are by far better then most. Your getting out of infidelity which is our goal. Some peoples goals are to burn the witch. Do what's best for you and your situation.

[This message edited by paboy at 2:29 PM, February 27th (Saturday)]

I totally agree with Paboy. Be mindful of whose advice you take.

I would suggest you look at what advice lines up with reality.

Some people goals are to "save the innocent damsel" who cheated by encouraging you to ignore reality. "She said sorry, now rugsweep, kiss and make up."

She seems to be doing her best not to rug sweep.

This “out of the blue” detail was meant to do one thing and one thing only.......and that was to divert your attention back to her. Not the stalker....not your colleague.....her! The way she worded this detail was very thought out. So, what was your response to this “unsolicited” detail?

Sorry MorbidCuriosity, but that sexual assault/harrasement is just not gonna fly. She knew very wellvwhat was hapenning. And she kissed back. She admits that

I have no idea why she kept that from me besides what she told me - to keep me away from trouble. I do have a short temper sometimes, and I am highly protective of my closest. And even though it's been what, 4 months since Dday and 6 months from this incident I honestly can't say I wouldn't smash his face in if I ever met him face to face. Maybe now even more since I lost a lot of my nice guy attitude from before

But I know why she told me now, it's because of the stalker. I told her some time ago that in order for this to work I offer full honesty and expect it in return. I informed her right away about this other woman and I told her that this is how I want to do this, no hiding anything and full disclosure. I guess this pushed her to tell me. She understands it obviously makes me question if this is truly it (TT at it's best), and she again offered a polygraph. And even though she ommited this before, I don't think it changes a lot. Her story is still the same, two instances of PA supported by their messages which I still have. In those text he apologized for pushing her. By then I only knew about his hand in her panties (which she didn't want or liked or whatever) so I thought he was talking about this, but apparently after she told him NO he THEN pulled this stunt. Again, it's probably the caveman/protector speaking but him pulling my wife's hand makes my blood boil.

We habe been a little off today. I am quiet so knows I am fuming inside and she apologized multiple times today for keeping this from me, and I think I MIGHT believe her reasoning, but I am still hurt and disappointed. I thought we are getting past this and now I feel like this is like setting the clock back by a lot.

I don't understand how some of you can keep going while your WW's had done much worse. I know this is not some kind of contest but still, what my WW did was not "as bad" and I can barely make it. Kudos to you

Sorry MorbidCuriosity, but that sexual assault/harrasement is just not gonna fly. She knew very wellvwhat was hapenning. And she kissed back. She admits that

I have no idea why she kept that from me besides what she told me - to keep me away from trouble. I do have a short temper sometimes, and I am highly protective of my closest. And even though it's been what, 4 months since Dday and 6 months from this incident I honestly can't say I wouldn't smash his face in if I ever met him face to face. Maybe now even more since I lost a lot of my nice guy attitude from before

But I know why she told me now, it's because of the stalker. I told her some time ago that in order for this to work I offer full honesty and expect it in return. I informed her right away about this other woman and I told her that this is how I want to do this, no hiding anything and full disclosure. I guess this pushed her to tell me. She understands it obviously makes me question if this is truly it (TT at it's best), and she again offered a polygraph. And even though she ommited this before, I don't think it changes a lot. Her story is still the same, two instances of PA supported by their messages which I still have. In those text he apologized for pushing her. By then I only knew about his hand in her panties (which she didn't want or liked or whatever) so I thought he was talking about this, but apparently after she told him NO he THEN pulled this stunt. Again, it's probably the caveman/protector speaking but him pulling my wife's hand makes my blood boil.

We habe been a little off today. I am quiet so knows I am fuming inside and she apologized multiple times today for keeping this from me, and I think I MIGHT believe her reasoning, but I am still hurt and disappointed. I thought we are getting past this and now I feel like this is like setting the clock back by a lot.

I don't understand how some of you can keep going while your WW's had done much worse. I know this is not some kind of contest but still, what my WW did was not "as bad" and I can barely make it. Kudos to you

I can't see anything that would require her not to say this before. IMO this is not something that makes the story worse.

Would you really react it differently if all told at the same time?

Killing is exaggerated, but she may have been afraid you might get yourself in trouble. I don't see any other reason for her not to tell you, if there isn't more.

Contrary to my overview of cheating, I have always seen and still see her as a good candidate for R based on your posts. And my suggestions have always been in this direction, but every time I also said that you should polygraph to make sure you know the whole truth. I know the messages give an objective view that there is no sexual intercourse. But you should do poly both to be sure about it and to know if there is anything else you don't know, although you should know it. One simple question "Are you hiding something from your husband that you think he should know?".

It's not because I think she's hiding something, but for your peace of mind.

Other things to consider - is your WW generally naive and immature in other ways?

Not, quite the opposite actually.

Is she not experienced with sex and intimacy in general?

Wouldn't say so. We got together pretty young, but definitely not inexperienced when it comes to sex or intimacy.

Has she ever made out with you and stopped before it progressed any further?

Yes, she has. Pretty normal occurance for us. Partialy courtesy of our two small kids. But we do like that, it doesn't always has to end up going the all way

so I try to not leave any place for some kind of misunderstandment

Irrespective of anything else, I think misunderstandment should definitely be a word.

I think you should take her up on the polygraph offer and put this to rest. It's RARE that an EA with aspects of a PA did not progress to sex. You may want to believe that she would never agree to one and still be lying but unfortunately that's a common theme amongst cheaters. You should check out the poster Neanderthal and his WW LifeDestroyer and you will see exactly what that looks like. LifeDestroyer said there was only 1 instance of sex that she tried to stop and it wasn't good. She stuck to her story and agreed to the polygraph immediately. And then she confessed to the truth and it was sooooo much more than what she originally said.

Point is - we have no idea what kind of WW you have. Maybe she's telling the truth. Maybe she's sticking to a lie in hopes that you don't ever press her too hard on it. Maybe she'll pass with flying colors or only after a huge confession like LifeDestroyer did. If R for you lives and dies on whether she has told the truth today, don't you want to confirm it so that you're not blindsided months, years out, when you find out there was a lot more she didn't tell you? If her having sex with OM isn't as big of a deal than what you've said, maybe you don't need a polygraph. But when it's that important to you and the odds aren't good even with the progress she's made, can you really afford NOT to confirm it?

[This message edited by nekonamida at 8:48 PM, February 27th (Saturday)]