SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If trying to make things work is the path you want to choose, then I wish you the best. Just be careful. Pay close attention to her actions. Make sure she's truly willing to take 100% of the blame for her A. Don't allow her to be defensive. Demand as much transparency as you want. Tell her that her triathlon days are over if it's what you prefer. She owes you whatever you need, and she owes you her absolute best as a wife for the rest of her days. Don't settle for less.

I told her I felt like plan B since the A had crumbled

But are you one? She decided to end her A (assuming she really did) immediately after you put a choice in front of her. Either her AP or you. When reality hits and she had to choose, she chose you (or if that sounds insulting, she crawled back to you).

She said she understood

What did she actually tell you to assure you that you are not her Plan B?

Do you have a feeling that she is back into the marriage only because her AP gave up on her? Is there anything to indicate that she knew that her AP isn't going to stick around.

In my own story, my x-F wasn't going to leave me at all. Because it meant a lot of social stigmatization and other stuff about her. But when I told her we should end it, she felt relieved. What does that make me? I was not the Plan A because she wouldn't leave. I was the Plan A because she couldn't leave, while in reality she couldn't wait for me to end it for her. So I was the Plan B.

But what are you?

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:19 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

It just relayed in plain terms that she'd made the the biggest mistake of her life by having the A and that it was over forever.

Bahama, if you and your WW are to heal this marriage, the word "mistake" must be removed from the vocabulary.

What she did was not a mistake. Her affair was a deliberate series of choices to betray you, her marriage and her family. If she could be with the OM right now she would be, but he proved to her what a creep he is.

I'm going to keep harping on this too: You need to go back to work. You need to get a job and take back some of the monetary control in your marriage. There is not a woman on this planet who truly respects a man who is not out earning a living. As long as she supports you there will never be any equality in your marriage.

Get a job and hire a nanny/housekeeper. Take back some of the power you gave away.

Hi Bahama

A relationship with a WS after long and difficult (years) of hard work can be as good or perhaps better than before the A.

But it will be different. You may not look at her with the same rose colored glasses. Perhaps she never deserved to be looked at that way to begin with. Or maybe that was the problem in the relationship.

I’ve said here often that the basis of love for a BS, after a WS works hard to regain trust, repair damage and help heal, is Pride. Pride in The work the WS did to make amends and fix the devastation of their awful choices.

You cannot do that work for her, but you can walk along side of her as she does it.

In the meantime your job, thru IC is to process the wounds you have been dealt. You are going to feel the pain of this in greater and lesser degrees as time goes on.

The amount of effort that she puts into the R process will help you focus less on whether she is all in, and more on your own healing.

The draft plan is a good first step. Work it until it contains what you need. It’s a living breathing document reviewed together often at first and not just stuck in a drawer.

You are doing the right things, but make sure you are getting what you need, as the Bahama of 2-5-10 years from now is counting on you to ensure reconciliation is done right the first time.

Take care of yourself and your girls.

I'm going to keep harping on this too: You need to go back to work. You need to get a job and take back some of the monetary control in your marriage.

I also wanted to comment briefly on this. I agree to a point that you need to look at this as a couple. It’s obvious your discussions about how she would feel as the sole provider would impact her, or she wasn’t truthful during them.

But it’s a discussion for a little later in my opinion.

First she needs to work hard in IC to figure out why cheating was the solution she chose (an awful choice) to address issues she was feeling. She needs to learn the coping skills of a true partner in a loving relationship.

And you need therapy for the pain you are experiencing and will continue to for a while, from her infidelity.

Once you have started working respectfully in those areas, then MC may be appropriate for working thru issues in the M and how it should be structured going forward.

Maybe she needs to take a leave for a while to work on these things, or at least go part time.

But don’t work on marital issues until you’ve woeked on the more immediate damage done by the affair.

This is a marathon as you’ve alluded to. Take the proper time for Everything and don’t rush it all.

It takes two to truly R. If she is all in you must do your part as well.

Numb&Dumb - Thank you for your post in particular. It spoke to me.

I appreciate everyone who posts.

I truly feel she has begun to come around to the situation. She has further to go to even begin to grasp it all, but I feel she's trying.

She did tell me last night during some discussion that "I was probably going to hate her for saying so, but that she did have feelings of loss for the AP." Her whole A did start as an innocent friendship and training partner well within my knowledge. In the analysis of the A she is going to have to explore her actions that led to it going beyond friendship. She says she's grieving the loss of the friend, not the A. I told her I could understand that and she wouldn't be human if she didn't. But I also clearly told her that I didn't give a shit about her AP anymore. In fact I clearly stated that I was angry and disgusted towards him. I clearly told her that if she's grieving over that loss, that she needs to keep that to herself and that she'll never get an ounce of sympathy from me. That she'd better not ever shed a tear for him in front of me. She's the one who decided to go beyond friends and destroy what she had on both sides of this A. It hurts me to think of her also grieving the loss of him, but I'm strong enough to understand.

Regarding the decision tree that was so painful to find and is really what showed me the A was there. She says that the entire time in the A she was constantly racked with guilt. She said she had expressed a desire to end it to the AP and that he had drawn that out to help her clarify her thoughts about how to proceed. I don't really believe that the "leave our spouses" option was one she was considering. I think she knew she wanted it to end, but the high from it all kept her hooked. Whatever need it fulfilled for her was greater that the will to stop. This is a topic we will be discussing again, and perhaps again and again. Perhaps I'm just protecting myself in thinking this.

I do think I'm going to start at thread on the R forum. I'm not sure what we are dealing with is R yet, but it seems like my thoughts to and needs from this site might be better expressed there.

Thank you again to all helping me with this.

One day at a time.

She begged me not to give up on her.

This is a good sign, but like you expressed to her you feel like her plan B and rightfully so, and she needs to understand it's going to take a while, I'm glad to see he had a list ready of things to help repair the damage she has caused, it shows she continues to educate herself on how to heal you, she also needs to continue to do the hard work to find out her "whys", insist on the timeline and when you're ready, compare it with the one OM agreed to write to OBS.

She's now begging you not to give up on her even though she gave up on you an decided to betray you in the worst possible way, don't give her an answer yet, tell her you're still processing the destruction of the M as you knew it, that you're going to take as much time as you need to do it to make a decision to D or R, remember she consulted a D attorney (for whatever reason), so she's been considering to D you since the A started and even right after Dday, you have the same right to consider D as well, and even though D is not necessarily what you want right now, don't take it off the table just because she begs you, tell her she needs to show you she's all in and that there's no guarantee, I would tell her you're going to take at least the same amount of time her A lasted to make a decision and even then you're not going to be fully healed, it's going to take years of hard work and overcome triggers and mind movies.

Never underestimate the addictive power of an affair.

That's why there can never be any and I mean any contact (phone, text or in person) with her AP again.

It's the quickest way to a false R.

Do not put any trust in her yet. She must earn that back.

Your walking a fine line. Make sure that you keep your senses alert to any red flags. Now that the A is outed, if it ever resumes, for her it will be a with the realization that it is 'game over'.

At the same time, ensure that you look after your self. Enjoy life to its fullest.

but that she did have feelings of loss for the AP." Her whole A did start as an innocent friendship and training partner well within my knowledge. In the analysis of the A she is going to have to explore her actions that led to it going beyond friendship. She says she's grieving the loss of the friend, not the A. I told her I could understand that and she wouldn't be human if she didn't. But I also clearly told her that I didn't give a shit about her AP anymore. In fact I clearly stated that I was angry and disgusted towards him. I clearly told her that if she's grieving over that loss, that she needs to keep that to herself and that she'll never get an ounce of sympathy from me. That she'd better not ever shed a tear for him in front of me. She's the one who decided to go beyond friends and destroy what she had on both sides of this A. It hurts me to think of her also grieving the loss of him, but I'm strong enough to understand.

Excellent answer, make sure she understands he was NOT her "friend" he was her boyfriend an AP, don't allow her to use the word friend, " MY CHEATING PARTNER" is probably more suitable, doesn't matter how long the friendship before the A was, also make sure she knows in no uncertain terms that they can NEVER be friends again, at least not as your wife.

Like I wrote before and she just confirmed it, she doesn't hate her AP, on the contrary, she's still pining for him, not the friendship, he was not a friend anymore, he was much more, he was her lover, this tells you she's not remotely remorseful by a long shot, she regrets the consequences of her betrayal but has not yet grasped the devastation she caused, not even close. I would send her to her parents for a few days while she mourns the loss of her boyfriend, make no mistake about it you probably want R but you're not in true R yet, she needs to truly hate her "Cheating Partner" for remorse to happen (writing her timeline will help her get that hate), he may have taken advantage of her but she decided to jump in the sack head first and betray you, it was her job to stop him dead on his tracks and inform you, no questions asked.

I suggest you wait a few days and more talk with your WW before you open a new thread in the R forum, at least until you KNOW you're in full R mode and all the necessary work is being done, but of course this is up to you and what

Hey B-

I would ask her 2 simple questions.

1. Why did you feel it was appropriate to have an affair.

2. Why do you now want to reconcile?

"I don't know" and "I love you/us" are not acceptable.

Require her answers to be 140 characters or more. Before you forgive or reconcile you will need more info, and the answers she gave today are honest and show that she had a lover not a FWB, and she is far from remorse, still just into regret.

The detailed timeline will certainly disgust and anger you ( a side of your wife you never imagined), however you may find you need full disclosure to process what she did to you

In any event you don't have to read it immediately. Maybe instead share it with the OBS for comparison. The longer she waits the more likely she may forget stuff.

Finally, don't tell your wife that you're not reading the timeline. Creating the timeline is a form of therapy for her too.

Putting it down in writing makes a bad dream real and encourages her to face her behavior as a sordid betrayal vs a romantic tryst.

The time line can then be confirmed at any later time, if necessary, by a polygraph test.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:16 PM, March 4th (Monday)]

If you haven't done this I would ask her point blank : You need to be 100% honest with me going forward if there's even a chance for thsi to work, Are you STILL in love with him ? have you been in contact with him in any shape or form since Dday and if so why and how ? if the answer is yes, I'd tell her to go to stay with her parents (not an Airbnb or hotel) while she pines for her lover, her pining for him in your home is beside her A itself one of the most disrespectful things she could do to you, another consequence of her A.

Notice I framed the question with "STILL" in love with him, not if she loved/loves him, watch her answer carefully. If you later demand she takes a polygraph (I recommend it) and after she gives you her timeline, that should be question number 1. Has she made her appointment to get tested for STDs yet ? How about her apology to both your parents ?

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:20 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

the why hmmmmmmm. here is a suggestion. your the good guy who does all the 'good' things in life for her but she's one of those women who always has a thing for the 'bad boy alpha'. georgia free on you tube (hope this is ok) gave an excellent explanation of why women can be hypnotically drawn to bad boys. its biological. i would really recommend you both watch it. i hope your wife has at least ensured there is no chance of her being pregnant again...

and as for her feeling remorse and showing empathy (assuming this is all genuine) have you asked her to really imagine if you had been the one to have had an affair and told her that you had developed feelings for this hypothetical other woman. how would she feel about that? how much would she truly care?

Keep in mind, she is currently in a shattered self preservation mode...

She will get her head together and come out of that and when she does, she will be back to being a lot more cold and calculating. Right now, her body is emotionally trying to grab anything that floats. You float...you are a life ring. Once she remembers how to swim, that life ring is a lot less useful.

Be careful that you don't keep thinking like a life ring after she remembers how to swim.

Good luck to you. That's a hard place to be in.

I am going to take a leap of faith here and post.

I normally stay away from these types of threads because (right or wrong) I don't feel like my own situation rises to the level of experience that is required from which to comment.

I do, however, have some ancillary life experience from which to draw.

Your wife is a physician?

This is a factor.

Getting an M.D. is a decidedly, uniquely, selfish endeavor.

It may not seem so, as it is (and it is, make no mistake) a profession of service.

A physician will sacrifice years of life just to have the credentials from which to practice- and that's just getting to the starting line, to the gates.

One may or may not get through undergrad and into medical school on one's own, but once one is in medical school, and absolutely once one is in residency, a "support staff" is paramount.

This is one reason why high income families/physician parent families produce physicians. The (physician or otherwise high demand professional) parents themselves may not have the time or the energy (or both) to be that support staff, but they have the means to supply it from other sources.

I am interested in your wife's family of origin. How much support was provided? Did she need (or feel the need) to provide her own nuclear family (for emotional support and sustenance) (i.e. spouse and children) and did she also have to provide the support structure for her emotional support supply?

Ergo a stay at home spouse- which seems unusual and awkward to those who are still operating from gender stereotypes- but female physicians are now in the same place in life that male physicians have occupied for hundreds of years.

Your wife may be servicing (or trying to service) all kinds of emotional, psychological, financial, infrastructure needs that intersect at one supply point- and that supply point is YOU.

At the same time she's the master of compartmentalization, not unlike a combat soldier (physician.)

And she's doing it with an analytical detachment- because that's how she's trained, because that's how things are done, because it's the most efficient way to get things done, because it's the only way it can be done.

Ask any female spouse of any male physician from 25, 50, 100, 200, 300 years ago.

It's only a gender thing because women haven't been physicians for thousands of years.

Dude, physicians do not have spouses. They do not have families. They do not even have lovers.

Physicians have staff.

And even the physicians themselves don't want it that way. It kills them too.

They have staff because they need staff. They need staff because the work and the life are so demanding.

Bonus round if they are the more unsung physicians, the non-specialists, the pediatricians, the internal medicine docs, the hospitalists, the family physicians, the general practioners, even the ER docs. All the stress, all the work, half the income. And all of the compartmentalization.

Ergo the AP becomes "Romance Central" and "Hot Sex Junction" and you become "Domestic Appliance" and "Childcare Provider Extraordinaire."

NOW, I've been on another thread where guys are rending their garments, gnashing their teeth and tearing their hair about whether it was ALL ABOUT THE SEX for their WWs. Got it.

I can tell you for sure- anyone working in a hospital environment can find sex anywhere, any time. It's the original Peyton Place. (Anybody here remember that reference, LOL?)

Your wife is showing signs that she's realizing that SEX can come from just about anything with a dick (that's interested in women) (seriously) but quality of life for her and the kids can only come from some man who gives a shit.

What does this mean for you? for her? for your kids? I have no idea.

Just know that you have a specific situation here- and it has to do with two highly educated people, one of whom has a super demanding career, and one who gave up a super demanding career to act as support staff.

Both are critical, neither is less than the other. Your situation has gotten out of balance.

You both need professional guidance (IC/MC) aimed at your particular career/infrastructure situation.

I've short-handed this and I've probably made a million errors, errors which others will not comprehend (understandably) and will misinterpret and critique. Have at it, Peeps!

I will add this:

You want to stay in this marriage?

1. Lawyer up. Get solid legal advice, on your own behalf. Your wife has, and will. She's trained to do so. She should. She has a huge investment to protect. So do you. You are no less than she. Behave accordingly.

2. Post-nup for both of you.

3. IC/MC, shared common goals that are respectful to both persons.

Your wife wants/needs (whether she's yet cognizant of this fact or not) a staff? Then she needs to hire a staff- with all that entails.

Did she "hire" a staff when she married you?

A good attorney and decent IC/MC will help you sort that out.

Ultimately, the answer is between you and her.

(Note: Neither Husband nor I are physicians. We are merely two people who negotiated/navigated a high demand career household, and not as efficiently nor as successfully nor as equitably as we could have.)