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I would just assume he's doing a poor job of recovering, like your line says.

We had a moment, sort of like this yesterday.

Some of the moms at my kids' school were being rude and downright hurtful to me. We got a private school. It's fairly common with people who think they are better than everyone because they have money.

After I told the to screw themselves, I asked my husband if he grasped how stupid he was.

I may not be cute, or interested in have nanny and be a SAHM so that I can go work out and tend to myself 7 hours a day, and therefore be fodder for him to jerk off to...But, I'm not ugly on the inside, either...like they are.

I told my husband I understood that while he was getting high to these moms, I know he wasn't thinking whether or not they were good people.

But, he was (perhaps still is) stupid enough to throw away someone good (but albeit not a MILF) for folks where were pretty on the outside but ugly on the inside.

Of course, his response was not stellar..and actually made me worse.."Yes, I'm sure some of the woman I fantasized about I'd want nothing to do with."

Which of course begs the question "Well, what about the other women? Did you want to get with them?, wanting to befriend them, etc?"

My husband seems to think he's immune to his addiction escalating.

Oh, dear, yes. My husband thought he was immune to escalation. He was already escalating!!!! It took four or so years for him to get that he had escalated and sometimes he still slips back into saying "I wasn't so bad." But, actually he was.

They are still in addict mode when they spew out crap like "Yes, I'm sure some of the woman I fantasized about I'd want nothing to do with." Don't even try to figure that one out. It's just hostile, self-serving, delusional addict talk.

On FOO issues in therapy. I'm seeing a trauma therapist and we started with FOO issues. I was annoyed. She made two points that I now understand: the first was it would be easier to deal with the trauma of my husband if I dealt with earlier trauma first. And, that turned out to be true. Her second point was that to answer my question, "How did I get here?" she had to have me revisit my childhood. Since my therapist is very good, this has not been a waste of my time. I've learned new trauma activates old trauma. I had to visit it all.

And, I do believe my husband was sexually abused in some way. He definitely was emotionally abused. He as well would become almost violent if I bought it up. They are that scared of their past. I mean, really, if it didn't happen, wouldn't they say something like, 'Huh, I don't think that's true.' They wouldn't have a major meltdown. I think the nuclear meltdown is proof in itself that something happened. They need lots and lots of therapy to be able to look at this.

I've now told SAH that I will file for divorce if he continues to blame me. I can't take anymore hearing that he is not responsible for his thoughts/feelings/behavior and I am. And it's usually because he says I'm not loving, generous, kind, thoughtful, blah, blah, blah. I sat down and calmly told him how painful and toxic it was to continue to hear this. His response? I was not being thoughtful about his needs and he was reading an article that was more important than what I had to say. Ouch. That's no empathy and extremely harsh. As my therapist said, he just is too threatened by a meaningful conversation.

ashestophoenix

I've dealt with my FOO issues ad nauseum. She'll have to give me a very good reason to revisit all that again. We'll see.

My husband got/gets angry or defensive when his early trauma is mentioned. In the case of his assault by peers he STILL doesn't want to accept that he was a victim, he thinks, somehow, that he could have physically fought off 4-5 boys instead of "letting it happen." Same victim POV as many rape victims.

I think we, how became codependent in relationships with SAs have to be careful not to fall into that same pattern. It ISN'T our fault. I know that as a young married woman, I thought some of the problems were communication, or adjustment. I didn't see the dysfunction. When he balked at telling me where he was, because he felt I was controlling or I wasn't respecting his autonomy. I thought about it, thought he had a point and backed off. His behavior escalated, he took advantage, took me for granted.

My point it that there is a fuzzy line between being a supportive spouse and codependency. WE generally WANT to nurture our spouses, in a healthy way, are open to negotiation and compromise, both of which are necessary in marriage. But when dealing with an unhealthy person, it's easy to go off the rails and begin the journey into codependency.

The frog in the water is a very apt analogy to my situation. I really didn't realize the water was getting hotter until it was long into the marriage.

See. On some level I knew we were dysfunctional when we were dating and talking engagement.

I knew my husband avoided any non-sexual intimacy..even when we were dating..

I knew if I wanted to marry him...I had to accept that.

And actually, I did willingly.

Unfortunately, that was a product of my parents marriage. My dad rarely revealed anything about himself to me. Anything I knew about him, was filtered through my mom. It's weird when you realize that you have no idea who your parent is.

Things started getting rough in high school. That's when my parents would just stop talking to each other. It eventually escalated for several months at a time.

Because my parents kept us isolated-I wasn't really allowed to have friends outside of school time and they didn't have any friends...I didn't get that my parents relationship wasn't good.

My mom always framed it that they stuck it out through marriage. Therefore there marriage was good. Somehow, that keeping on keeping on at all costs was always one of the value sets that my parents had. Or they didn't think they had the luxury of deciding if they should keep on when it was bad for so long..

So. The one marriage I was exposed to modeled a lack of non-sexual intimacy and that model was held up as being "good."

I figured "how bad could it be?" when I noticed that, and ignored.

I read one of Patrick Carnes's books on sex addicts soon after my first D-Day in 2002, and came across a statistic that 81% of sex addict offenders he'd worked with had admitted to being sexually abused as boys. (However, they have to ADMIT this....not so easily discovered).

This is staggering, and I am wondering if my SAWH is hiding more than I know...

When I began seeing my current IC, I insisted that WH do the same and with a SA specialist.

He agreed , but I recall him telling me that " This is going to kill me "

His therapist is working hard at getting to the root of his SA and clearly there is some kind of connection.

This never occurred to me

secondtime, I think I understand what you mean by non-sexual intimacy, but not sure.

I know my SAWH was the epitome of repressed expression the entire time we dated - to the extreme of making me wonder if he was just "not that into me." Except, he called religiously, every.single.evening. I never had a boyfriend who did that before, so I thought "he just shows his interest in a different way....he isn't some game-playing "user." (Yes! I thougth this.)

The excuses we all make for them? Let's remember what the singles scene was like, and cut ourselves some slack.

Sure, I would have preferred a BF with more passionate expressions, more animated conversations, more laughter, more eye contact, more smiles, heck....BUT steady and dull had its appeal to me then in my 40's, after a series of divorced boy-man charmers had broken my self-esteem...

This guy had never even had a girlfriend...and came from a British-influenced culture. My father termed it his "stiff upper lip," and told me most British guys he ever knew were much like that. Which is why I silenced the little questioning voice inside myself, by judging "this nice man just had no clue how to relate." (True!) Only trouble is, had I known about the 100 hookers he hired before just "friend-zoning" me, there would have been no second date! So I appreciate what you are saying about referencing other relationships, and asking how bad this is....

Let's face it: we didn't know what was reasonable to find out there, amidst a TON of pressure from family, friends and society to be a couple!!

I have a question. Is there anyone on here that are married to a sex addict who has acted out in gay ways?

My world has completely shattered. The husband was living a double life I knew nothing about. Creating accounts on hook up sites for trannys. Never contacted any but created the account. Tranny sites on play store downloaded. No messaging of them again. Then 2 seperate facebook accounts where he watched tranny videos. No profile pictures. No FaceBook messages. No friends even assigned. 2 different e-mail accounts for all these different sites. A tumblr account where he has a couple trannys following him and he blogged a couple tranny memes. Was messaging one local girl that he use to know at work. But he erased the messages. Never even knew he was talking to someone. They never hooked up or anything like that. I uncovered the messages. Then got a phone number at a bar one night while working out of town. The girls friend secretly gave him the number. But my ahole husband actually called it. She never picked up phone records showed. I also called her.

Then the massage parlor directions in his maps. Oh the trickle truth on this for a month. First it was only a massage. They are open late is the only reason because he works such long hours. I was digusted and my gut knew the lies. Then it was I did get a table shower. They just clean you it's an Asian thing. Puke Then the threat of there will be no reconciliation at all if we can't fess up with some darn truth. Then he admitted to not once but 3 times he got a happy ending by hand job. 2 other times he went they didn't offer it at all even though rub maps said it was a happy ending place.

In researching I know without a doubt I am dealing with a SA.

I asked him if he was gay? He said it's more like a fetish. A very embarrassing and can't explain fetish. Oh my word you can see the shame in his face.

But I truly don't understand. I am undecided about reconcilation yet. Even though he is remorseful and trying in leaps in bounds. He has joined a church. Gave all passwords. Deleted accounts. Got STD testing on my demand. Has said through tears he needs counseling. He needs to know what's wrong with him. He has agreed to to a polygraph. He even changed his 20 year old phone number 2 weeks ago.

Oh my word I am not defending him by any means. But he sincerely seems deeply troubled. I am an utter mess. I have cried so much my eyes are swollen. I have lost 15 pounds. I can hardly eat or sleep. I am having anxiety attacks. Been days where I didn't feel I could get out of bed. I have polished off more bottles of wine then I care to admit. And I am not even a drinker. I am on medication I never had to take. It's like I am reaching for anything to ease this pain. This is not like me at all. He has looked at me several times when he thought I didn't see and walked away and could hear him silently crying. He has said several times he hates he is such a piece of crap and seeing what this has done to me is tearing him up. He is cleaning and cooking and bending over backwards. He keeps asking how I am and not trying to bury it.

I have told him I am not ready to even know if I want to reconcile. He has said he understood completely. That if I need space he will give space. But he would like to be here to help me through this and be the man he vowed to be. Even though he should have been doing this from the beginning.

This is just so much. Even if I vow to want to stay what if through IC he discovers he is gay?

It's very common for sex addicts to use whatever conduit available to give them the ever escalating high. It's similar to a gambling addict starting with lottery tickets and escalating to high stakes and/or illegal betting. That jackpot that perfect high, that perfect O is just around the corner. SAs escalate from playboy to illegal sex and/or to same sex encounters. They do things that go against their fundamental belief system. Sometimes same sex encounters are in part due to CSA.

Not all addicts go this way. It's very individual. If you read the first page of this forum there are a bunch of resources to help you understand SA, but the most important part is that you focus on you. You can't solve this for him and you need to set clear boundaries and consequences if he breaks those boundaries.

I'm sorry you are here.

So, a bit of information I've learned since my discovery of an ongoing relapse.

Sexaholics Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous and Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous have defined sobriety differently. The last two allow the addict to define his or her own bottom line. So, my husband, despite me making clear that porn was verboten in my marriage, decided to tell himself it was okay as long as I didn't find out. Which of course, is a clear violation of the "scrupulous hhonesty expected by all groups. In true addict form he didn't let that technicality get in his way.

Sexaholics Anonymous is the group associated with SANON. Sobriety there is defined as the absence of sexual activity of any type, including with oneself, unless it's with a partner in a monogamous and committed relationship.

Cally1975-I'm so sorry you're hear and going through this. I read your post and I teared up because I felt like it was where I was last year with my SAWH. My SAWH was with prostitutes, not massage parlors or trannies, but for me, it becomes all similar in my head. The trickle truth lasted 9 months for us. He finally got everything out (I think) at a 3.5 hour therapeutic disclosure that told me everything he did over the last 13 years. I was tearing up because I felt exactly the same way you did about numbing the pain. The crying and the alcohol, and the way our WH's feel about themselves is all the same. I didn't know if I wanted to stay in the marriage at the beginning, but after all the therapy I've had (3 times a week for the last 10 months), I'm definitely feeling a little recovery. I say "a little" because I know I have years more, but we are slowly working through the pain. SAWH has found a wonderful SAA group as well as a great sponsor, and I have found the same in a COSA group. With all this incredible support, I know I will make it out whole again. It will be very different, but I will be whole again. I say all this because I know you will get there too. It takes a village though to get through it, so please use whatever you need to recover and become whole again. I want to say one thing about a polygraph test (lie detector test); I did it with my SAWH when I knew about 15 prostitutes and that's it and he passed with flying colors. I was very relieved for several months until my mom (who worked for the CIA for 20 years) told me about polygraphs. It's very easy to pass them if the administrator is not VERY experienced, or if the recipient starts to "believe" his own lies. These days people everywhere are trying to make money giving polygraphs, and they have no idea what they are doing. Just be very careful if you go that route. It gave me false hope for several months and for me, it was all a complete lie.

Hi Cally1975 ,

I am sorry that you find yourself here too.

My SAWH was using porn chat rooms for years. I found it and I also found his secret email addresses he used ( he would open and close accounts all the time when he was trying to quit )

I can't unsee the things I saw but I am working on me and he is working on him.

I too abused alcohol from Dday 11/06/2017 to 12/31/2018.

As far as your question about the same sex component , there were multiple men sharing photos of their genitals and also requesting others to share theirs too.

I know that my husband has photos floating around cyberspace since a simple google search of one of his screen names provided several pages/ links to the porn chat rooms.

I do not think that my husband is gay or attracted to men, although I certainly questioned it just as you are doing.

Those sites are poison and filled with very sick individuals

Cally,

Very gently, please stop drinking, it's just not good for you or the situation. Go for a walk, join a gym, take up knitting. Do anything you would normally not do to take focus away from the problem but avoid drinking at all costs. You will end up saying and doing things you normally don't say or do.

I have been exactly where you have been and I know the first few months are excrutiating. Feel what you have to feel every day but remember that you're still you. You're still Cally and nobody can take that away from you.

You are more than a wife and because of that, respect yourself enough to eat, exercise, see friends and stay healthy.

Get into IC immediately. Let him schedule his own IC appointment. Do not waste your money on MC right now. This is not a problem with your marriage. Your H is admitting he needs help, that's great. Once he does seek this help, you will probably hear more tickle truth. At that point, you will be stronger and probably fairly ready to hear the rest.

Good luck to you.

despite me making clear that porn was verboten in my marriage, decided to tell himself it was okay as long as I didn't find out.

Lionne: That just blows my mind. Seriously. But I know mine thinks the same way. I'm so sorry. I'm losing my mind about the tiny bottles of lubricant my WH is taking on his trips with him. Now he hides them from me in hand sanitizer bottles. Thinks I don't know. I can't stand the secrecy. We are about ready to head back to MC with this stuff. Makes me so mad. We all have our boundaries. I imagine my WH is watching porn again as much as this little bottle gets moved around. My WH has changed a lot, but anything like this he keeps from me just puts up a huge wall between us.

Cally1975: I'm so sorry also that you are going through this. They do experience shame after the fact and shame, of course, once we find out. The shame place an important part in driving the addiction cycle. I also believe that labeling anyone "gay" at this point is extremely premature. I think, and did think, in terms of behaviors. As in, this is a same sex behavior, this is an addiction behavior, that really helps to sort it all out. It likely has to do with escalation to achieve the same high. All of us here have had shattered lives, and learned that our partners were living completely double lives. How can you be married to someone for decades and NOT KNOW?? I don't understand that and never will. I thought mine was a good guy, and he is, but he also has these parts of him that are very unacceptable behaviors. Does he experience shame? Remorse? Absolutely, and again, not facing that straight up begins to fuel the addiction. Your WH has a lot of work to do, and so does mine. You just focus on taking care of yourself. It is yours to choose to stay or go, but know that you can and should take your sweet time deciding this. I too am not a drinker but drank a LOT the few months upon finding out just to numb the pain. Be kind to yourself, please because nothing you did or didn't do, caused him to do this!

You ladies don't know how much your posts meant to me. Literally made me cry as I am typing this. You all understand and can relate in a world where I feel so very lost. I am so sorry your all in this situation.

But from the bottom of my heart thanks for the responses.

I will write more later. Have to run to my obgyn appointment. Hoping I don't have a melt down while admitting I need STD testing. I have never ever in my life had to ask for this.

Go ahead and meltdown. It’s nothing they haven’t seen before and mine was nothing more than completely compassionate.

Don’t be ashamed of asking for testing. Be proud you are taking care of yourself and not denying.

Lionne, I'm so sorry that your husband is back in addictive thinking. They really can't let up on recovery...ever. I read some advice from a recovering addict who said "I have to work on this until my last breath." That's also an important realization for all of us: our relationships, if we choose to continue them, will always be in some sort of recovery. Paula Hall makes that point in her book.

Cally, I'm so sorry. I could have written your post when I had my first discovery six years ago. It's an enormous shock, isn't it? It's a traumatic shock. Please see the first page of this forum for books to read and other resources. It helps to learn about this addiction. Most partners suffer from PTSD so we have to be careful of how we take care of ourselves. I did risky things to numb myself early on, and it was critical that I stop. I also encourage you to enter IC and find a trauma therapist. That has helped me immensely. As others have said, you will feel better, but it's a slow and painful process. Focus on you and your well being. That took me a while to achieve. Early on I had to get through one hour at a time. Be gentle with yourself. Also, give yourself the gift of time. You don't have to make decisions about your husband or your marriage right away. I do think it's important to get in control of your finances, though.

ashestophoenix

Thanks, Ashes. We've hashed most of it out, AGAIN. He's doing 90/90 or there about, new IC new therapist. I'm reserving action, the idea of leaving and leaving all the crap behind is tremendously appealing. I'm keeping in mind the words from a few pages back, "are you going to be happier with him or without him." Idk yet.

And another detail slipped out. He had had a secret email. He said he told me about it way back when and he may have. What he didn't tell me was that he had an ongoing exchange with a woman in South Africa, chatting about society and politics. He printed out a picture of her, apparently in ceremonial clothing and hung it in his office, claims I saw it, I don't think so. The thing is, he had a HUGE wall of pictures in that office, one of many jobs he cycled through and he had NO picture of me. He had the kids, his parents, and HIS MOTHER'S HORSE (I kid you not) and none of me. And apparently this woman. I was so hurt and confused but I stuffed it.

And the whole thing reminded me that through this whole time, in some part of his mind, he was shopping for someone to replace me. He sees that. Denies it was anything but fantasy. Still...

Assholes. Am I right?

[This message edited by Lionne at 4:01 PM, March 6th (Wednesday)]

Lionne,

What is 90/90? Yes, I would be very hurt if my H had no pictures of me but had a pictures of woman in another country as well as a horse picture in his office.

I'll have to look at my H's office. Never thought of noticing. Another example of how blind I was all these years.

When your heart feels like it is being ripped apart into shreds, how do you deal with the pain? It is just so unbearable!

I admire those of you who have tried and continue to try to reconcile. I empathize with those of you who gave it your all and are once again struggling!! I think I would have continued to try as well but my WH doesn’t see a problem! I think to be healthy, I need to leave. It is the only option, I am not happy and he is such an @$$hole!

I can't take anymore hearing that he is not responsible for his thoughts/feelings/behavior and I am

.

When I address anything, this is what I get!! This is so toxic and has destroyed my self esteem and sense of self worth! I addressed his drinking the other night and he drinks again because when he stopped for 28 days in october, I didn’t care enough or who knows he obviously expected a medal and daily BJs for not drinking! However, he smoked weed every day so really just replacing one addiction with the other.

I have been doing some digging and he is on dating sites, messaging multiple women at the same time. In fact, he is meeting up with one of our friends Friday! They can’t wait to tough each other and he invited her to a hotel in 2 weeks to enjoy baseball tickets that I bought for his bday! I don’t want to have sex with him so that is how he justifies his infidelities. He also tried to have sex with me lastnight, I declined and he makes a big deal out of how I never want to have sex! Like there is no reason why I wouldn’t want to have sex with him?! Seriously? He keeps making everything about me and it is messing with my mind!!! Help, I actually keep wondering if it is me? Is there something I did or didn’t do? The gaslighting and manipulation is destroying me!

whoami62,

statistic that 81% of sex addict offenders he'd worked with had admitted to being sexually abused as boys

This is true for my WH, although he chooses not to deal with it and create a bettter life for himself. Instead he is an addict, to sex, lust, booze and drugs. I have been empathetic for so long but I believe that has led me down a codependent path. I now think he uses his abuse as an excuse to behave the way he does and expects no consequences for his actions. Almost like his abuse gives him a free pass to live a toxic life and I have no say about it. It is sad but I struggle with caring for the traumatized boy or leaving the careless toxic adult who is destroying others lives, including mine of course.

[This message edited by Somber at 5:36 PM, March 6th (Wednesday)]