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You are completely right in looking at this through the lens of her own self interest. At the end of the day she engaged in all this duplicitous behavior because she wanted the A and all that came with it. Now, it's pretty clear that she WANTS the M. Everything she does and says is with that end in mind. If you don't think information that you could never prove (zero evidence or it's in a purposely compartmentalized part of her heart and mind) is something that she would omit, minimize, exaggerate or manipulate in order to gets what she wants now you'd be naive. The truth is you'll never really know. Self interest is still in play. I'm not saying it's impossible that she's genuine right now, just that it's impossible for you to ever know (and you have every reason in the world to doubt it).

Hikingout - did you still feel "love" for AP after dday? Who did you "love" more after dday - was it your husband or your AP? Was there an external reason or factor why you woke up from the fog? Or was it internal, meaning, that you loved your husband above all else all along?

It’s all gradual in some ways but I don’t think of it in the same terms you describe.

I took a great risk in having the affair, it took some time to unwind the stories I told myself that allowed me to go through with it. It’s hard to admit I bet on nothing and lost everything.

The lies I told myself were common. I exaggerated my spouses flaws and emotional neglect. At the same time I exaggerated the positivity of the AP’s behavior. My inner being thrived in chaos. The higher the drama the higher my highs. (Not anymore 6 years later)

It took a little time for clarity to return after all the mental gymnastics I went through in having the affair.

I did still believe AP loved me and that I loved him for a short period of time after the affair was over. He had a dday and we never spoke again. I started counseling and two months later I confessed to my husband with the intention of trying to save our marriage.

Feelings are fleeting, and what got me in the mess. It was about recommitting in the beginning. Figuring out what the hell was wrong with my thinking was the next step, remorse came shortly after that, And then we worked on reconciliation.

What you are talking about is exciting love feelings. Connectedness. It took some time to build the excited love again in my marriage after my affair. It came easier for me than it did for him, as you can imagine. After I had time to grow into a person worthy of a chance for a relationship some of our connection started returning.

The fog is just the period the ws still believe all the lies. Some people report never experiencing the fog, some say that it is evaporated all at once (usually on dday) but for me it took unraveling the lies individually. That too was gradual, I would see one truth or lie and it would take me to another. It was layers.

It’s hard for me to think about any of that being about love now. So to say I loved one over the other would be assuming real love was occurring in any of it. Were there love feelings for both? Sure, but love is an action.

The aftermath is ground zero, the ws might be disoriented for a while but they are looking around at nothing good in any direction.

This is the point that you are asking who the person loves? The ws is not reliable at this point, you aren’t going to believe what they say, and they oscillate so much they don’t trust themselves.

It was more about starting over than starting again. When we had come to a higher state of being individually, we naturally had a more elevated relationship as a result. And today I would say a higher level of love and connectedness, and that’s beyond comparison.

So, don’t get stuck in comparison. It’s going to be skewed anyway by someone you don’t trust and isn’t reliable. Instead, each focus on your individual work and then decide later if reconciling is for you. If so, then focus on building that new relationship and the connection.

You have to picture it more like everything was demolished in the explosion. Including the fantasy world with AP (and if the feelings haven’t dissipated on contact, the foundation is gone and the feelings won’t sustain) Both the ws and bs need time to recover and adjust, both need time to heal, and then decide how to rebuild and if it will remain individually or together. Getting hung up logically something that isn’t logical is not going to help.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:23 AM, Wednesday, March 8th]

I'm not saying it's impossible that she's genuine right now, just that it's impossible for you to ever know (and you have every reason in the world to doubt it).

I accept that, but I think that's an existential question in all relationships, pretty much all the time. Even without an A, it's possible that one partner will experience something that will break a relationship, and that something may be just around the corner - or may already have occurred.

Affairs happen in contexts and between individuals. Clearly sometimes relationships are rebuilt. The question every BS and WS need to answer is something like, 'How likely is it that this specific relationship will be rebuilt into something I want until one of us dies?'

In fact, one could say that R and M are processes of increasing the likelihood of wanting to stay together every day/hour/moment.

Life is risky. Life is uncertain. And it's hard enough to know one's own mind, much less someone else's.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:34 PM, Wednesday, March 8th]

Oldwounds -

Going back to your original questions, my wife was certain she loved AP —

So your WW did love her AP? Did she love AP more than you during the affair? If yes, how did you come to accept it?

BSR - It's important for me to know who she really did love all these years, because in my case, I feel like I was the 2nd choice especially during the affair.

Hikingout - Love or not, I want to know if I was ever Plan B during the affair, that is, did she wanted to leave for AP? Or did she "love" AP more than me? I dont care if its "fake love" or she "didnt know what love is", because it was real and felt enough at that time, so much that the effort induces feelings of jealousy for me.

[This message edited by Confusedmd at 5:58 AM, Saturday, March 25th]

The things she has done so far:

1. Apologize all the time for what she did
2. Always tried to talk to me and get me to open up
3. Tried to be intimate with me often
4. Been a good mother to our son
5. Transferred 90% of her money and properties to my name (mostly inherited)
6. Tells me all the time that she loves me

She has repeatedly asked that we try to rekindle our sex life. Even through near total rejection from me, she has hung in there. Many nights she asks if she could do anything for me sexually. I found out that she sometimes waits outside my bedroom door buck naked for hours with a made up bed, ready to be intimate with me if I wanted to.

Am I the only one who finds this not only crazy unhealthy but really creepy? This doesn't sound like a positive at all, nor does it sound like someone who genuinely wants a sexual connection.

So your WW did love her AP? Did she love AP more than you during the affair? If yes, how did you come to accept it?

In all honesty, neither my wife or I really understood what love was with any certainty until after she confessed.

The pain, anger and the full reset of our relationship were tests neither of us expected.

To get back to the focus of your question, she certainly had strong feelings for AP. I was absolutely invisible during most of the A. But there was no plan. Thus no Plan A or Plan B — AP and my wife never made plans for a future or running off together. They built a bullshit escapist fantasy world that lasted long enough for AP to get what he wanted and dump her and move on.

I will always hate the A. I’m comfortable with that seven years later.

So, I accept that happened, but I don’t have to like it.

What I do like is who my wife is today.

What I do like is who I am today.

At some point the past belongs….in the past…whether I chose R or D.