SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I hope you are seeing what is versus what you want to see.

Hopium is a strong addiction.

Her words are meaningless. Actions speak the truth.

The other thing is right now like most you just want her back. Long term are you going to be happy with what you get back?

I agree with guvensiz. I hate to be a skeptic and cynic about any positive news, but please don't indulge in hopium.

Her comfortable reality has been in real danger of completely imploding. Relationship with her daughter now distant and damaged, likely because your daughter lost respect for her. And now you're leaving her too (or were about to).

So all of her comfortable provisioners and teddy bears are leaving the scene.

And then? Boom! Sudden remorse!

Be cautious and watch.

Your WW really needs to account for why she was so carefree and nonchalant about breaking her vows.

The ugly truth here is that she noticed an attractive younger man giving her vibes and she went for it. She wanted it, she liked it, and she didn't give you much consideration at all. Really, none. She wanted something strange and something young, and didn't care if it hurt you.

Then when she came home and let you know about it, it's like she just wanted you to choke that shit down and was simply enjoying watching you writhe. She wanted you to "fix" yourself and everything that was wrong with the marriage that made her the kind of woman who would sleep with another man if he winked at her. She doles out some sexual favors and is "nicer" to you (implying she wasn't all that nice before). But other than that, she's been pretty carefree about all of this, hasn't she?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that gives me significant pause -- just as my own WW's cruelty does. You've really got to wonder who you're dealing with here, don't you?

That "good Christian woman" stuff. Hmm. I'm devout and this never washes with me anymore. Good Christian women are as lustful and broken as atheist women. They will jump in the sack as soon as an opportunity presents itself. Not all of them, mind you, but a lot of them. Just like "good Christian men." How many affairs do we hear about involving pastors all the time?

It's hard, but brothers like you and me need to not allow modern Christianity blind us to the reality here.

Robert:

Get the name of the book and post it here. I'm sure you'll get some good feedback.

Excellent suggestion. The book is called "One More Try" by Gary Chapman. It isn't about adultery specifically, but about rebuilding a marriage.

is the DD that's moving the same daughter that was present at the beach? If so, she needs IC. Maybe your wife and your daughter both should attend together.

Yes, the same one. DD was in therapy, and she and wife did attend some sessions together.

guvensiz:

I think she was terrified to realize that she would be alone when she got older.

(your user name reminds me of Gollum from LOTR). Yes, what I think is going on is that DD moving out of state, DS off to college in 2 years, and my younger DD would want to come with me if we D (we get along, she's kind of a Daddy's girl). So that is realistic. Combine that with my emotions, where I basically give up and don't really care if we stay M or not. You put those two together and I think it hit home that yes, this is something she's going to have to address if she doesn't want to be alone. I'm thinking once she admitted that, it was then a short distance to make an attempt, to make amends, to help re-build the M.

We didn't talk much yesterday. She's a lot closer emotionally. This morning I told her I've enjoyed feeling better about us these past few days and she hugged and said again "I'm sorry."

(your user name reminds me of Gollum from LOTR)

It means something like "distrustful".

"One More Try" by Gary Chapman.

Who recommended the book to your wife?

I have not read this book.

From looking at the amazon summary (and the reviews) the book is not about infidelity; nor fixing someone that committed adultery.

Instead, it's a religious based approach to marriage counseling with a lot of bible quotes; encouraging forgiveness and that both partners take responsibility for their contribution to a bad marriage.

I'd like to hear from those that read the book as to how it helped a couple deal with infidelity.

From the reviews it sounds like each spouse accepts equal blame for a 'bad' marriage; and each spouse works on improving themself, including forgiving the other.

IMO it sounds like she found a book that requires you to accept/share blame for her ONS; and encourages rugsweeping.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:57 PM, July 2nd (Friday)]

IMO it sounds like she found a book that requires you to accept/share blame for her ONS; and encourages rugsweeping.

Ohhhh. So a book that basically reinforces exactly what she's already been doing for 9 months.

Combine that with my emotions, where I basically give up and don't really care if we stay M or not.

I told her I've enjoyed feeling better about us these past few days

Both of these can't be true as they contradict each other. If you "don't really care" if you stay M or not, then you wouldn't enjoy "feeling better about us."

It's not uncommon to lack objectivity about one's own self, but your desperation for your M is quite obvious, and we don't even know you. There is no doubt then that your WW sees it, too. And given her:

1. Not talking to you about anything (difficult) yet

2. Choosing a book that is not infidelity related or self-improvement focused

3. Actually doing nothing different yet

I am not optimistic that you will be getting from her what you hope to get. I've seen many a BS exclaim, "My WS gets it now!" just to end up back at square one. I'm sorry. It's still all about her and not at all about you, and that is the absolute antithesis of reconciliation.

Your WW wants to stay M, but she has no desire to work at reconciliation. It is SO easy to stay M and so hard to reconcile; you haven't even scratched the surface of the surface yet. But Good luck. I wish she would get it, but she doesn't. I honestly believe that when you finally get it, she will too. And you are not there yet.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:47 AM, July 3rd (Saturday)]

Owning:

Both of these can't be true as they contradict each other. If you "don't really care" if you stay M or not, then you wouldn't enjoy "feeling better about us."

It is contradictory I suppose if those statements are taken as they are, but I meant in the context of the boundary "I cannot stay in a marriage where there is unresolved adultery." If R is an option I prefer it, but if it isn't, I was experiencing a slower side first to indifference, and then I think at some point to action. Ultimately that leaves me with confessing that my desire is linked to her actions/behaviors. I'm not sure how you would frame that, is it unusual? is it unhealthy? To have her confront and deal with adultery with me is what I wanted all along.

About the book, she has it on audio, I haven't listened to it yet. One of the tenets of the book is changing yourself for the marriage which is typical I suppose, but is good because one of my requirements is she learns with me how to have conflict in a constructive way, which requires a lot of change on her part. I don't think it specifically addresses the adultery. I have another workbook on adultery I want us to work through also, written by my therapist. She has readily agreed. I'm leery about MC because I had a bad experience, but I might want to try it again later. I will certainly own 50% of the marriage problems and 100% of my behaviors, but I will not assume any responsibility for the A. She has understood that. I don't want to go so far and say that she "gets it" but it is a very different relationship now.

So far my requirements are being met. I wanted non-defensive discussions about the A and my hurt and pain. I wanted priority given to my feelings. So far things have shown promise, for example she had souvenirs from the beach condo vacation and also the jewelry she was wearing, they were reminders for me and so she put them away in a plastic bag in the closet. There was heated anger early on because I said if she really cared about my feelings, she wouldn't just put them away, she would toss them out the window or throw them in the trash immediately. So fast forward nine months later, she remembered that discussion, and went and got those items and threw them all away. She told me she's sorry she didn't do it sooner and she wants those reminders out of our lives. I forgot all about them but I was happy that discussion was on her mind and it was something she could to make amends.

So generally I'm wary because of what I've experienced, but I am feeling optimism and the small buds of a R appearing.

Thank you for sharing the additional information about the book; and about her saving the souvenirs and later voluntarily throwing them away (and apologizing).

Even though she has a long way to go to prove to you that she deserves a second chance, I think she may be turning the corner.

Finally, have you considered IC for your daughter?

I suspect she has disappointment & anger issues with your wife (as any kid would toward a cheater) but ramped up because your wife did it on her watch.

Your daughter may feel she let you down as well as feel anger toward her mother (her primary role model) for being a hypocrite.

Robert:

Finally, have you considered IC for your daughter?

Yes, DD is seeing an IC and WW had attended with her. At least I think she still is; things have been moving very quickly, she had been out of town and now she's back home for a couple more weeks before moving away for "a while." I don't think this is her long term plan but I believe she will make good choices.

I had asked DD to change her mind, as WW is going to be out of town for like 6 weeks (coming back a couple times, and I can also visit her) but generally would enjoy having her around and we could do stuff, but I'm also aware that hanging out with Dad isn't as fun as her friends and stuff. I get it.

I haven't asked DD about the A in a while, and she doesn't bring it up. I asked WW if they talk about it and she said they don't. I'm sure DD has noticed the change in her mother and I, and there hasn't been any "hostility" in a few weeks. I still have hurt and want to talk about how I was treated during the fallout, like you said there is a long way to go.

HowCouldShe

How’s it going?

I gotta tell you, I have slim hopes for you if your WW is going away for 6 weeks and also if she will be gone every week after that for her work.

Reconciliation is a full time job itself. Having you at hone and her away does not make it any easier. It makes it exponentially more difficult.

I wish you both would reconsider her taking this position. I know it has to be her choice, but you have agency and can voice your concern about it.

I wish you well but wish I could be more optimistic about it.

Judging from what you posted after this thread, you both need to find qualified therapists, otherwise you will both be screwed up for life!