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Harry, I waited to contact the OBS. I wish I hadn't. I felt a lot of relief afterwards.

Telling the OBS was hard for me because I knew the pain. But the thing is that they are not living an authentic life. They, too, deserve to make choices about what they want in their marriage. Telling will stop the messages and flowers, etc. NO CONTACT MEANS NONE. She can't keep in contact and stop feeling the foggy feelings because it was all sunshine and roses and not real life. When you send your letter, be sure to send it registered mail and to the husband's place of work so that it can not be intercepted. Stick to the facts, and if you have any proof, you should offer it (such as the email or Facebook messages).

Stay strong, Harry. You have to protect yourself. Do you have kids?

Hi demolishedinside.

Thanks.

Question. My WS is my wife - did you mean I should send the letter to the AP's wife's place of work? I'll have to investigate, but I believe that she may be a homemaker.

In this case, is Facebook / Social Media OK? Or should it really be good, old-fashioned letter?

...edited....

And no, we don't have kids.

[This message edited by HarryChicago at 10:05 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]

I think R requires a totally free choice for R to work. That means NOT informing OBS in the hope that s/he'll cause the A to stop.

OTOH, I advocate informing the OBS because he deserves to know his WS is cheating and may be bringing home something very nasty. The OBS needs the info your have.

Besides, I'm still angry at my OBS because he knew of the A and didn't inform me....

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It sounds like you're waiting more than playing pick me. Still you sound too conflict-avoidant for fastest recovery.

I recommend reading http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/simplified-180.asp.

Ialso recommend looking at http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp. If it makes sense to you, print it off and give the copy to your W. Her response may tell you if she's a good candidate for R.

I urge you not to tell her where you got it - it's just 'something I found on the web.' Keep SI as your safe place for now.

My husbands affair only ended when I called the other woman's boyfriend. Even though my husband had said at that point that he wanted to be with me, he was having trouble ending it with her because the other woman was threatening suicide. This is a common way that people stay in touch with their affair partners because they need "support". It means the affair is not over.

I recommend calling the other betrayed spouse because then you know for sure they received the message. Also, I very quickly told him what he needed to know, then said I would not intrude on his life any further unless he wanted to call me and ask more questions. He told me he appreciated how respectful I was handling it and I kept to my word.

Also, even after my husband stopped contacting the other woman, he told me he was still in love with her. At that point I decided that if he felt so good about something that hurt me so much, then we did not have a marriage. It just didn't exist. So I told him to leave. I was not bluffing. See another recent thread on here about willing to lose the marriage to save it.

Sisoon, Thanks.

Now that I think about it, I'm both playing a waiting game and doing "pick me". I am also avoiding conflict.

We both do that, which is part of what got us to where we are now.

I am in the process of writing a letter to the OBS. I will print it and discuss it with my IC early next week, then likely send it.

Later this morning we have marriage counseling and will discuss this week's events. I intend to be frank and forceful about exactly what I expect of her in terms of any further contact from him. I need her to be 100% crystal clear with him that she wants him to STOP getting in touch.

That said, she probably doesn't want this. Too bad. I do need to stand up for myself and won't win this game by letting myself be a doormat.

Thanks Satine.

You guys are really giving me strength. We're new to this town and I don't have many "local" friends to talk to. I'm also embarrassed and ashamed to bring this up with family or older friends I haven't connected with in a while.

I feel so much better that you all are here and realize I can't rely on my wife as my only means of emotional support. I've reached out to two good friends I haven't spoken with in years. We'll chat later today.

Gratefully,

EDIT:

"HC" (I can't even remember my screen name. LOL)

[This message edited by HarryChicago at 11:06 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]

I think you need to tell her that no contact means no response. None. From you or her.

Just so you know, most counselors will tell you not to tell the other spouse. They often feel that is hurting someone else so that we can get revenge. SI typically does not agree. I wish someone had told me before it had gone physical. The other betrayed spouse (OBS) told me he suspected something. That was BRUTAL to hear.

DO tell his BW. Any way that is easiest for you. Give her enough details and proof that she can check your story, whether that means screenshots of texts or dates and times when the two were together. Remember, your wife has made it abundantly clear that YOU are the ONLY thing keeping her from pursuing a relationship with him.

So what happens when you guys go through a hard time, or when you let your guard down, or when you get sick or when she accidentally runs into this guy while she’s out and you’re not right by her side? A raging dumpster fire, that’s what.

OBS will help with this. She will reinforce facts to her H. Through her he will see that he ranks below you, that she left him to keep you. He will start to see you as a human being, very likely an interfering, trouble-making one, but a real and hurt person nonetheless.

These things take time. The goal is that one day your wife will see her interaction with her AP as the unhealthy and dangerously selfish act that it was, and stop romanticizing it. For that to happen, they both need to witness the breach they caused in their marriages and be willing to do anything to heal it. Whether you two will end up together or not is uncertain. But the fact that she acted against your interest and lied to you is sure. Don’t try to make it easy on her, just tell her what you will accept and what you won’t, and then watch her actions very closely.

Harry, I have some questions.

I intend to be frank and forceful about exactly what I expect of her in terms of any further contact from him. I need her to be 100% crystal clear with him that she wants him to STOP getting in touch.

1. Do you have any other needs or expectations of your wife moving forward? Or is it just no contact?

2. In your perfect world scenario, where would you like to see yourself (and WW) a year from now?

3. Is there any circumstance that would lead you, HarryChicago, to pursue divorce? (This is just a question, not a nudge)

I'm used to being in control of my life and that is totally out the door right now. A very strange and humbling experience.

I'm really glad you've found this place; the people here can help you make smart decisions about how to move forward in a positive direction from here. You can take very mindful, effective steps to get that control back. I think there are good things to come for you.

When you tell the OBS, don't tell your wife you are doing this. She will warn him and he may block her receiving it. I would suggest doing it now and then talking to your IC about it after it is done. I say this because the IC might try and talk you out of it. You can also learn if they are still in communication with each other. Sadly, I fear they still may be communicating. Send the message to the OBS and you will find out quickly. If your wife comes to you afterward and ask why you did that then you will know that they still communicate.

You are going through some serious hard times. Your wife is not doing everything she can to make you feel safe. What is she doing to make you feel safe? What is she trying to change about herself? What do you two do together as a couple? Sometimes it takes a good while for a WS to get out of that fog and gain a clear head. I might even suggest that she come on this site and talk to some of the wayward wives here. They can help her a great deal if she truly wants help. But I also would not want you to lose your save place if this is all you have. I want you to do what is best for you and get yourself out of infidelity.

Unfortunately while she’s still in the fog you won’t be able to move on, neither of you. I hope you have informed the AP’s wife, he will then turn to focus on his marriage and drop your wife which in turn will make your wife realise there’s nothing special about him as he is so eager to get rid of her.

As to the fog... my WH kept in contact with his AP for another 4 months and now looking back he was massively in the affair fog. He wanted to be the good guy who isn’t abandoning a woman in pain (either me or her) and rescue us both, when in reality he wasn’t rescuing any of us. I wish on DDay 1 I would have insisted on him moving out. That would have been a wake up call. Or at least to have a three way conversation so the ow realised he is the one begging for chances with me, she really thought he remained in the marriage because I forced him to. But I was totally blindsided by his A and when he asked for another chance I believed him he wanted it when in reality he didn’t actually know what he wanted.

I know the risk of my WH to go to the ow would have been high on DDay 1 but at least soon he would have found out what he really wanted and not torture me for another 4 months.

So if you have the determination in you I think the only way to give her a wake up call is separation until she finds out what she wants. And you need to accept that you may lose her in doing so but what life is this anyway if she’s pining for the AP while with you? I don’t think you want to live like that for months and question if she chose to stay (as I do) just because she didn’t want to lose her comfortable life with you.

I wish you strength.

I think Sisoon touches a key factor. Free choice of the WS for R to work.

I’m going to suggest the following.

You love your wife, right? That’s what you say you do. So, you want the best for her? You want her happiness?

OK – let her have it. Let her have her “happiness” because something tells me once she has what she wants it will turn out to be something else she really wanted.

Tell your wife that you love her to bits. Tell her you love her so much that you don’t want to impede her ability to be happy. You love her so much you can’t even contemplate sharing her. That if she loves someone else more than you then you accept that you have lost and your love for her will let you accept that you two are no longer a couple per se.

She is totally free to be with OM. You are happy that she is happy. Only – she can’t do so as your wife.

You are OK with that decision. You realize that a relationship can’t be healthy if one is more into it than the other. It’s not what you want, but it’s what it is. You can’t make her unloved OM, and you can’t accept sharing.

And then YOU start whatever is needed to get out of infidelity.

That includes all actions needed to start the formal dissolution of your marriage. It includes detaching. It includes stopping doing things as a couple. It includes not making expectations to her on things that couples expect of each other: No sex, you don’t make her dinner, she doesn’t do your laundry… You simply start detaching.

Read up on the 180. It’s all about detaching. She wants to talk to you about how she feels for OM

“That’s great. It’s not relevant, though is it? Your choice to be with him sort-of fired me from being your husband and I am doing all I can to detach.”

She wants to talk about next weekend:

“I hope you have an great time. I really want you to be happy. I’m working on my future so I won’t be doing that with you.”

Get it? You give her what she wants. When she sees what its going to cost… I’m betting her tune will chage.

Btw – Tell the OM spouse. Just do it. Now.

Please also make sure your wife doesn’t know you’ll contact the AP’s wife. She’ll tell him and he’ll prevent any form of communication. If you can call her, email her, find a way to communicate without him intercepting it that would work great.

Only when your wife sees he AP for what he is (a “friend” ready to destroy her world, somebody who 99% certain will drop her like a hot potato when his wife finds out) she’ll come out of the fog. In my case the ow turned crazy and threatening so my WH seems to now hate her. But as I said it took 4 months. Because I really loved him (and still do to a certain extent), I spent the 4 months explaining to him that he should follow his heart and if he really loves her he should go to her. Unknown to me she was threatening him to destroy him by contacting me and turning up at my door in the middle of the night so he figured out for himself who is the ow.

I still didn’t come to terms with the fact that I have been “chosen” because the ow turned crazy hence our R may not be successful unless I manage to believe him one day that he indeed loves me.

So don’t torture yourself. The more of her pining for the AP you witness the harder will be to ever believe she stayed with you out of love. Let her pine on her own. Not your problem.

Hi HC,

I was born in Chicago and raised in the burbs 😊... sorry we had to “meet” here.

I’d like to suggest a slightly modified approach to your thinking. I offer this, based on your WW‘s attitude that you are the one who are forcing her to give up her AP. Instead of “laying down the law” ( it is sometimes human nature to want what we are told we cannot have ), I suggest you tell her that she is absolutely free to have a relationship with and continued contact with the AP. She is free to make her own choices and so are you. And then let her know that you refuse to be in a marriage with three people. If she wants a relationship with him, then you will do what you need to do to get out of this marriage. The choice is now up to her. She can pursue him or she can decide that she wants back in to the marriage. Now the onus is on her to earn her way back. You become the object of her efforts. Make sense?

Perhaps you are thinking, “but I don’t want to tell her that she’s free to be with him!“. You will see it written often on this site, you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. I cannot stress how true this is. As long as she believes that you still want her, she is free to pine away over AP. If the tables are turned, and she suddenly has to worry about losing you, she has to decide if you are Plan A or Plan B and act accordingly. Suddenly, you have the control to decide if you want her back in your life, instead of her deciding who she wants to be with.

And honestly, if she chooses to leave, aren’t you better off knowing that now, rather than later? It hurts, but sometimes you have to pull off the Band-Aid quickly. Then you can start healing.

Two of my favorite books have already been recommended to you – both by Linda MacDonald. I highly recommend them. Another one you should look into is “Not Just Friends“. There is a chapter devoted to “old flames/friends“ who resurface later and how much more difficult these affairs are to end.

Wishing you the very best. Take a firm stand, it will benefit you in the long run, and honestly, do wonders for your self-esteem. Standing up for yourself and your worthiness is the first step to recovery.

[This message edited by StillStanding1 at 12:45 PM, April 5th (Thursday)]

I'll reiterate what pinkpiggy and a few others have said: Your wife is a side piece who will likely be thrown to the curb once obs finds out.

She's in fantasyland.

Sunshine is the best disenfectant.

Why do you need to consult your IC before exposing?

I *suggested* she reply to him when his friend died BECAUSE she is so invested in being kind to everyone. I guess that was a mistake

Yes, it was.

Being kind to AP = being unkind to you. Wouldn’t you have felt better if your WW said she had nothing to say to her AP? Was having an affair the KIND thing to do to her faithful husband?

Being kind to AP = being unkind to APs wife and (further) hurting his marriage. Shouldn’t AP turn to his wife for comfort? Wouldn’t OBS value being the source of support for her husband?

The OBS needs to know because she has a right to know the truth. She has the right to decide if her H’s A is a deal breaker. She has the right to demand her husband cease contact with his AP, and to search to find if there are others. Maybe your wife is not the first.

Find out where the APs wife works and send a letter via registered mail to this address to her.

You can also send one to the home address via registered mail restricted delivery which means only the wife can sign for it.

My wife sent her mail to one of my APs this way. His wife found the restricted delivery notices and destroyed them, but the one to his work got to him. In included evidence of the affair including pages from the phone bill showing that we were in contact.

You want to blow this up, then other betrayed spouse is the key to this. It makes AP go into emergency mode on the home front.

There is a reason we tell you not to tell your wife you are doing this. If your wife comes to you asking why you did it you know that there is an open channel of contact.

Good luck. This shit is hard.

**** Edited to remind you not to touch the submit button twice on an iPhone or iPad ***

[This message edited by sorrowfulmate at 4:22 PM, April 5th (Thursday)]

Okokok -

Thanks for the kind words.

1. Do you have any other needs or expectations of your wife moving forward? Or is it just no contact?

I haven't really thought about long term expectations. I feel like I'm too busy "whacking moles" or "bailing water" to slow down and think any more than a few weeks out. That said:

- No Contact (she WAS)

- IC for her (she is) This implies:

- She work through her love / pining issues

- MC with me (she is)

- Continued Transparency

When she is more stable, we also need to focus on me. With all the recent {stress / confusion / feeling torn / shame} on her part, I haven't had the chance to ask questions that I need answered in order to heal. We were making some progress in this regard early - but it was "triage-ish" -- cut that arm off, tie that vein, etc. We need to go way deeper.

2. In your perfect world scenario, where would you like to see yourself (and WW) a year from now?

And you ask the long term question now. Shame on you. Because of the events of the last days and reading these forums, it's clear that my expectations were too high. Ask me this question a month ago and I would have painted a picture of our next big adventure, living outside the country again, etc. Now? Not so much.

In a year from now I hope to still be married. I hope that she has put the AP behind her. I hope that we're having more good days than bad and we laugh more than we cry. That we're both 100% invested in making this work. That would be pretty amazing.

3. Is there any circumstance that would lead you, HarryChicago, to pursue divorce? (This is just a question, not a nudge)

- Finding out that she lied about the number of visits by the OM and potentially if the encounter was more physical than she has told me. I was pretty clear that some of her answers needed to be "full and final" after she wasn't completely transparent in the beginning. The death by 1000 cuts thing is not for me.

- Not disclosing attempts by the AP to get in touch within a reasonable (later same day, early next day, etc) amount of time.

- Demands that she unblock him on FB, "just be friends again", etc. That is a complete deal breaker

EDIT: Thanks for making me think about this stuff. Useful to know what I can and can't do ahead of time...and be able to express it immediately as necessary.

[This message edited by HarryChicago at 4:41 PM, April 5th (Thursday)]

Luna, Bigger, Demolished -

Thanks. As if I don't have enough to worry about, I feel bad I'm not replying to each post! They're all great. But there are so many. I feel like a sheep right now.

Bigger: I understand your suggestion and it is logical (I'm generally ALL about that). But when I sit with this and REALLY ask myself if I'm ready to take this step and risk the marriage, I have to honestly say that I'm not. There, I said it. There are still too many question marks -- too many variables. I need some time to fill in more blanks. I would never forgive myself for making a bad decision because I wasn't patient enough to have what I thought at the time was a pretty complete picture of what is happening. I understand that I'll never REALLY have enough information and will eventually need to take a leap of faith one way or the other. But I also don't want to leap before I look.

Luna For reasons unknown to me, this feels more in line with something that I could do now, even if you're in not so many words suggesting a course of action that is more similar than different from Bigger's. Where I'm stuck on this is that I actually DO think my support is valuable to my WS right now. I do worry that if I withdraw it, she'll go looking for something else. If I hang in there a while, I'll have more info and hopefully be able to make a better decision that I feel better about come what may. Hope this makes sense.

Demolished: Message received. Thank you again.