SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

yes, I'm so very tormented. you're standing your conclusion about as strong as I am nice, so not sure why I'm the sanctimonious one.

OP - you've talked about the other avenues you could have taken that would have been better choices so I think you know what you did was not the healthiest for you. that's a good step!

At the risk of dropping a match into the "powder room" (black powder, that is), I'm very curious about a theory or hypothesis of mine:

Men do RA's for the sense of seeing their spouse's bet (think poker) and matching or one-upping it in some way. Of not being mastered or "shot at" by their wife and the OM in the equation without a response in return. THAT, and they want sex...on THEIR terms instead of the terms set by the betraying/offending spouse.

Women have RA's because they want to feel sexy and wanted/appreciated and not taken for granted. Sex is largely a vehicle for those feelings to be conveyed or perhaps even a reward for such (not that it's not enjoyable and all, but...). Also they do it for a sense of being in or regaining control of themselves and/or their situation.

I offer this notion of mine up on here because on the one hand, I'm not sure if I'm right about this notion of mine and would like some confirmation or debunking or modification of it.

I also mention it because it seems that women aren't quite nearly so tormented by the mind movie issue of the sex acts themselves that their WH's engage in so much as they are hurt and tormented by the sense of the "love" that was felt and expressed towards the OW--even in the sex, if that was a major aspect of such valuing/communicating "love" to the BW in question in her own estimation.

I think that the root of RA's is anger. A way to strike back - even if the RA is never disclosed, it remains a secret place a BS can retreat to when they are feeling down.

Maybe the root of all affairs is anger?

or revenge, nightmare. the I have this coming to me entitlement factor.

[This message edited by sewardak at 2:27 PM, January 23rd (Tuesday)]

or revenge, nightmare. the I have this coming to me entitlement factor.

Isn't anger the root of revenge?

i think so.

"Women have RA's because they want to feel sexy and wanted/appreciated and not taken for granted."

Yup, exactly. Could not have said it better myself.

I did not have an RA, but I seriously considered it, for a very long time.

I really just wanted a guy to tell me that I was pretty. And, the guy who was trying to get me to forgive him didn't count.

SO glad I got thru that with having an RA.

Maybe the root of all affairs is anger?

I think it has to play a part -- reasonable or rationalized, it could be a major factor overall.

So many books I've read always have the dreaded "something was missing" stuff.

Anger makes a lot more sense to me.

My RA was...weird. Best I can tell, I flashed back to my response from rape trauma as a teen and took the same route. It was a weird mix of degrading myself out of self-hatred and taking sexual power back, but it was on DDay itself, so I was out of my mind. I couldn't really feel anything. I don't think I was exactly sane. I was probably as likely to commit an RA as I was to kill myself or any other crazy thing that day. I remember feeling my mind break.

So yeah, those could all be called excuses or "just as bad" or whatever. I honestly to my bones wish if I had to be a cheater that it was done simultaneously with my WH's infidelities. I wish I could view my RA as worse than the original infidelities. Maybe it would help the pain if I were as big an asshole?

It hurt me more that it was someone he knew a long time and emotionally bonded with. I feel like he was test driving his next partner and I would soon be sold for scrap.

I would never take revenge and never had any desire for another. Even as I go about my day looking at people and wondering if I could date them, I just don't have any interest at all.

[This message edited by SilverLinings55 at 8:27 AM, January 26th (Friday)]

Cephastation- I think you have a point to an extent.... men and women both have RAs to assert dominance and to feel wanted again, perhaps skewed in favor of the dynamics you proposed, but not exclusive of the inverse. I certainly wanted to re assert dominance, over the OM, over my cheating wife, but Truth is I also wanted to feel desired again by someone who hadn’t hurt me.

Which brings me to silvers point... I think you are spot on. Like you I have NO desire to cheat in a faithful monogamous marriage. It just doesn’t feel good or right. The exception being if it’s not an exclusive relationship anymore. Like you, I found that was a dealbreaker for me. So many initial waywards have issues that contribute to them cheating on good faithful spouses that may or may not have anything to do with perception of their BS, but a lot of it boils down to power. They have the power over their own destiny, over their lives, and ultimately bodies, BS be damned.

When the BS reciprocates by going out and living for themselves and meets new potential mates, it only re affirms to waywards that their spouse IS desirable to others, and is a catch. Then the threat of losing the safe, caring spouse becomes real to them and often puts them in their rightful place. Sometimes it backfires too, but Id argue it certainly shifts the post A power dynamic away from the wayward. The pick me dance is the very opposite, and comes off as needy, and therefore probably why it never works. When a wayward sees their spouse clearly capable of upgrading, the reality sets in big time.

I have heard nothing makes a man more attractive to a woman than being desired by other women... maybe there some truth to that. Of course all things said and done, I think people whose situation is like mine, or perhaps yours silver, are in the minority. And having an RA can be very detrimental too. Hence why I really can’t condone it, despite having relative successes in my life taking the route I did.

[This message edited by SilverLinings55 at 8:27 AM, January 26th (Friday)]

Silver. I know we are going to be chastised being in the minority here. And I recognize that our actions carry weight themselves. I’m sure you, as well as I, regret having had to even be in the situation to begin with. I regret hurting the woman I once loved, EVEN after the shit she pulled. Imagine that. And I can only imagine it was worse for you. You are doing what your kids need and that is the most applaudable, at least while they are young. We didn’t have kids which was a blessing, and made it easier to go through with D.

Edit to say- I have never cheated before my exw, and never since. I am in a healthy happy relationship now with a great woman who has also been betrayed. The only difference is my blinders are permanently off. Interestingly enough she knows my full story and was supportive of it! No criticism from her on my actions.

I don’t think you lowered yourself to anything below a good man who chose to stand up for himself rather than accepting continued humiliation after many attempts doing it the “right” way. And funny enough, it worked for you! As did it for me.

Neither of us wanted to be branded, but we would never have been here if our wives hadn’t destroyed what we held dear. The message to the OP, is that you need to heal for you. Your husbands affairs and abuse of you led you to have an exit A. And you feel immense guilt that you need to work through so that can be happy for yourself. But you wouldn’t likely be here if his infidelity and abusiveness in your M didn’t drive you to cope in an unhealthy way. Wishing you the best

[This message edited by nicenomore at 9:58 PM, January 23rd (Tuesday)]

IMO the marriage will always be out of balance after an affair, and there's absolutely no way it can be evened out. All the BS can do is accept that this is the way things are, this is our marriage, and this is our life - and get on with it, OR we can choose to D and move on.

...meaning i have to give up 50% of my assets if I can't just 'get on with it'.

it is not a fair choice to be foisted into....

...meaning i have to give up 50% of my assets if I can't just 'get on with it'.

it is not a fair choice to be foisted into....

What about any of this was fair?

...meaning i have to give up 50% of my assets if I can't just 'get on with it'.

But you get rid of 100% of dead weight... And that's worth a lot of money!

But no, I don't think religion (or lack thereof) has the slightest impact on morality, honesty, etc.

Not having religion played a role in choosing to cheat for me. Live only once. No "entity" going to damn "my soul" for being selfish. Made me more determined and entitled to take now, ask forgiveness later. I live only once, I want to die happy. Little did I know that this would make me more miserable. But, yet I still managed to become better in the end.

Oldwounds

RA's - two wrongs don't make a right.

If adultery were still a crime BOTH people would be found guilty.

If someone breaks into my house and steals my TV, and I break into their house to steal something back -- we both both go to jail.

If someone cuts me off in traffic, nearly kills us both, and I do the same to them -- and a cop or witness see it -- we both get tickets.

Just because I've been wronged, I don't instantly gain a brand new 'right' to wrong the person who committed the original offense.

As with any crime or offense against us (felony punch in the face, house set on fire, whatever), if we do the same, we're still in the wrong.

Any rationalization to feel good about making a bad choice is merely a rationalization. Did the "hey THEY started it" defense ever work as a kid?

spot on. This is how I want to live. If I trespass against someone though, I will not bitch and complain that I got burned.

As far as marriage contracts it still is interesting. I know when I got married there wasn't a clause that said if I or you cheat the marriage vows for both were void. Nicenomore Why do you classify yourself as having a RA and being a madhatter? If you two were separated. Then, you were separated. Can't cheat on someone you aren't with.

In the end the biggest question is how do the MH feel about themselves and what they did after the fact? Doesn't seem like too many feel good about what they did or are proud after the guilt and shame set in. Soooo, I am guessing it is NOT a good thing.

Zug- by definition I am. I told her I saw myself as single. She didn’t want to accept that, but I forced her to. We were till legally married, and I didn’t close the door to R down the road, so in a way I gave her false hope.

From my standpoint as an MH, I don’t feel all that horrible, maybe because I didn’t do it exclusively to punish exw. I did it because I wanted to move on and feel good again, I was done with her and just didn’t realize it totally yet. If i had LIED and told her I was going to reconcile with her, only to intentionally hurt her, then I’d see what I did as a true RA, and probably feel worse about myself. THe only thing I feel bad about was hurting her, ironic as it is since she hurt and disrespected me. I honestly think a lot of it comes from pity for her at this point though.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 6:28 PM, January 25th (Thursday)]

Ok, I see now.

I did it because I wanted to move on and feel good again,

, yeah that is why I said it really might depend upon why they have the affair. If it is to feel better or for revenge. I know when my wife had a discussion years ago about a post on here on RA she said she can see how a BS would do it (not to get revenge)to communicate how the BS was feeling to the WS. Some type of empathy thing. This way the WS would back off and become more patient about the healing process. A "see this is how it feels" so they would understand the gravity of the situation and would get out of the "its not that bad" WS mindset.