SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

[This message edited by Pleasehelpmebebetter at 3:42 AM, Sunday, May 24th]

I'm using definitions in a conversation here, with you. I'm not pulling up definitions in conversation with him.

My H and I are not arguing about the infidelity; we're having arguments about care of our child and pets, who's making dinner, whether we should start recording interactions, etc.

Again, I'm not here dropping lines about how shattered my husband's soul is every other sentence, because I don't speak for him, that's not helping him, and I don't feel the need to prove it to you that I understand his pain. I think whether someone is talking about it constantly or not is an unreliable metric to judge whether someone understands or not, but whatever.

I read Gemmy's letter and also cried earlier today. He is truly an exceptional writer and a gift to this community. edited to add: It doesn't make sense to tell me to read it and not look out for manipulation tactics. The letter is literally addressed to himself; there is one person speaking. Who would he be manipulating?

I assure you, I have arguments with AI as well lol. Arguments that I can never win because the chat bots are just LLMs; they don't apply real logic to things or remember your previous points enough to apply coherent logic. That's another exposure therapy tool for me. I feel really stupid in the moments after getting angry with the AI. Helps put things in perspective.

I'm not in a tower. You keep imagining me there.

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 3:44 AM, Sunday, May 24th]

You miss 100% of the points you choose to dodge - Or whatever Wayne said.

Hmmm... I'm going to challenge your assertion above.

How do you think and feel the betrayal of infidelity has affected your husband?

I'm writing to suggest a solution for part of your dissatisfaction: Explicitly ask the questions you really want to ask.

He could have just answered my question, which was basically, "Do you want to cook or should I?"

But that isn't the question you actually asked. You have written, in essence, that you expected your BS to answer a question you didn't ask. How can he do that? And how do you not take responsibility for starting the conversation off in a way that is almost certain to be misconstrued?

You expected him to cook. What was your purpose in asking him if he wanted to cook?

If you expect your BS to hear what you mean even when you do not speak clearly, IMO you ought to give him the same consideration.

Foreverlabelled,

I'm not dodging anything. I'm responding to what you said with counterpoints. It's no skin off my nose if my responses bother you.

Question for you, because I'm genuinely curious: Do you think you were able to let go of your shame for your infidelity, and for your role in someone else's infideliy as an AP?

Sisoon,

I did explicitly ask the question. I said "What do you want to do?" followed up with the fact that the chicken was expiring, provided the options of either him cooking the meal he mentioned wanting to cook, or me cooking a different meal, and proposed soluions for clean up of the counters and dishes. I invited him to select an option and then listed the options. Instead of picking an option, he went straight to "Why am I expected to work all day and then come home to cook?"

I did not expect him to cook. I was perfectly willing to cook; I just didn't want him to be upset with me if I used the ingredients he had requested for the meal he wanted to make, nor deny him the option of cooking if that's what he wanted to do that night. I can't tell you how angry he gets when he has a plan in his head and I unknowingly do something that interferes with it, or when he goes to cook something and we don't have an ingredient he needs. I was trying to navigate all of that at once to avoid upsetting him further, because I knew he was already upset about something when he walked in the room. That's why I structured my quesion the way I did. This is what I mean when I say I feel like I'm walking on eggshells.

But like I said, no matter how I would have responded to "What are we doing about dinner?" he would have still gotten more upset with me, bcause he thought it was late, and he didn't let me know why he was upset.

Even if what I meant wasn't clear the first time, why did he double down when I said "I don't expect you to cook" and explained what i meant again?

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 5:46 PM, Sunday, May 24th]

Thank you for proving my point more perfectly than I ever could have.

Question for you, because I'm genuinely curious: Do you think you were able to let go of your shame for your infidelity, and for your role in someone else's infideliy as an AP?

I seriously doubt you are that curious...

But let's look at shame.

The difference between a wayward acting out of shame versus true remorse is night and day.

​A wayward trapped in shame will constantly look for ways to deflect the conversation, debate the mechanics of the fight, or dig up a person's past to level the playing field because their ego literally cannot survive the feeling of being the bad guy.

​A wayward moving through pain and true remorse has completely dropped their shield. They are willing to feel the agonizing pain of what they did, because they care more about healing the person they hurt than protecting themselves.

So yeah.. I'd say I'm moreso coming from a place of remorse.

A few days ago you wrote:

The shame is incredibly loud right now, and every tool I know feels entirely out of reach.

and

But I am finding it incredibly difficult to cope with the gravity of the bomb I just dropped. It feels like D-Day all over again, and there is carnage everywhere. It is a gut-wrenching, heavy feeling.

I am just wondering if you're so insistent that I don't understand my husband's pain and that I must look harder at it because you're struggling with guilt/shame/remorse/all the negative feelings yourself. Just a hypothesis. I feel like this isn't really about me at all.

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 12:34 AM, Monday, May 25th]

You are completely predictable.

Morbs, you are taking quotes from things I said literally minutes after talking to the OBS. I came straight here to my safe place to be with people who can understand the depths of what we just went through.

Processing true remorse is incredibly painful. I don't hide behind clinical spreadsheets or try to appear unbothered on an anonymous forum. I actually sit in the fire of what I did.

I am willing to be vulnerable and own my struggles, while you dig through a stranger's post history for ammunition just to avoid looking at yourself.

My history doesn't change the truth of what I wrote. You can keep projecting, or you can actually drop your shield and do the work. Either way, good luck.

Morbs, you are taking quotes from things I said literally minutes after talking to the OBS. I came straight here to my safe place to be with people who can understand the depths of what we just went through.

Yeah. That was only days ago. I would expect you're still going through it, maybe not as intensely as immediately afterwards, but still having strong feelings about it, no?

I don't hide behind clinical spreadsheets or try to appear unbothered on an anonymous forum.

That's certainly... an interesting perception to have about what's going on here.

I actually sit in the fire of what I did.

Doesn't there come a time where you can step out of the fire and into a kind of self-forgiveness that can be compatible and co-exist with empathy for the betrayed? Are you giving yourself space for self-compassion? I mean, it's been 10 and 20 years. You've done the work. You literally wrote "The Work."

while you dig through a stranger's post history for ammunition just to avoid looking at yourself.

I'm sorry you feel like that's what's happening here. I am trying to understand the person I'm talking to with the data that's available. I believe that you believe that you're helping. I want to understand why your responses are... I'm just going to say "the way they are."

I'm here for my husband's pain whenever he wants to talk about it. I'm in a good place where I can handle that. I was a bit tired during the work trip and for a short while afterwards, but I took some rest and I feel ready to be 100% supportive again. If you would like to make a checklist of sorts of actionable items you think I should be taking right now, I can go through that with you and let you know what I'm already doing. If not, that's fine too of course. Still trying to get us on the same page. But again, it kind of seems to me like you're lashing out at me because of your own feelings, as if someone setting boundaries with their BS and experiencing lessening shame is almost triggering for you because you're not giving yourself that same forgiveness. It's not really about me.

I've known foreverlabeled for about 10 years. I've had the privilege of watching her grow into the amazing woman she is today. There are few members here - few people in real life - for whom I have such tremendous respect, admiration and affection.

For you to have used what she's going through today as a means to undermine her sincere efforts to help you is simply egregious.

Still trying to get us on the same page.

That's not going to happen. You're not on the same page. You're not even in the same book.

I don't believe you're struggling with "waning remorse." You don't have a fucking clue what remorse looks like.

For you to have used what she's going through today as a means to undermine her sincere efforts to help you is simply egregious.

I'm sorry that's how you perceived it. Again, I am trying to understand why she's responding so aggressively and so insistent that I don't understand nor am I sitting with my husband's pain, when I am more than willing to do so. It's really strange to me. Like I said, I believe she believes she's trying to help. But I think she is too wrapped up in her own shame to actually listen to what I'm saying. So we're having this weird back and forth where I'm explaining what the reality of my situation is, and she's hearing something entirely different and responding to that version of reality that isn't happening. Why? I am analyzing and hypothesizing.

You don't have a fucking clue what remorse looks like.

I do. I'm sorry you're upset now.

I will agree with Unhinged. While Morbs might want help help I only hear "what about me-isms"

—————-

Yes I know I cheated but now I recognize I was likely being abused by manipulation….

You have now idea how I am different…

Google AI says I’m a victim too….

You all are just biased by your victimhood….

I have trauma because of my childhood which makes me extra sensitive to abuse…

—————————

I think this thread should be shut down and maybe a new one started. This isn’t going anywhere and I think most of the kind people that are trying to help Morbs would be better off saving their energy on someone who is actually looking for help rather than someone who seems more interested in explaining why the help being provided is wrong and that everyone has ill intent towards her.

I think more progress and enjoyment would be made by cleaning dirty port o potties with my tongue than deal with this person

Btw being willing to sit in your husband pain is different than sitting in it. I can say I would go through hell for someone but it’s all talk until you get there and feel the heat. So far all I see is a half ass attempt at recognizing that your husband hurts but no real attempt at understanding what it is YOU did to him and how it feels

[This message edited by Notarunnerup at 3:43 AM, Monday, May 25th]

post #109:

the kinds of things GottheMorbs has said to BPs here when angered, while posting as Ghostie or TreadingWater, maybe they have both said cruel things.

Wait, are you sure that this is the same poster? IF this is true, then @GotTheMorbs, I really believe that you owe the board an apology for all the people you insulted here before on your prior usernames. A big one. Just coming on here under a new username and...rugsweeping...what was said before as if nothing happened (if that was you that is), that is serious wayward behaviour too.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:35 AM, Monday, May 25th]

I don't control what tone you decide to ascribe to my words. I don't control if you understand them. I am very direct and honest about my intent. I don't control whether or not you believe me when I describe my intent. I don't control which preconceived notions you come to the conversation with. I don't control your emotional reactions. I am genuinely sorry that you guys are upset.

It doesn't matter whether you guys believe me when I say I can sit with my husband's pain or whether I get it or not. I just asked him, and he thinks I do. We had a great talk together about an hour ago: he shared some of his thoughts, feelings, and triggers, and gave me feedback. We discussed the reasons behind The Burial. I told him about the things I'm doing to try to subdue my emotional reactions to my triggers, and he said he would try to trigger me less. We understood each other. We banked some intimacy and positivity! Progress.

I know the truth about me and my situation. I am a reliable narrator of these things. Nobody can take that away from me.

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 5:43 AM, Monday, May 25th]

I was going to wait until tomorrow to reply, but now I can't sleep.

I'm sorry you're upset now.

Yes, that upset me. Clearly. Apology accepted. At least, on my end. How foreverlabeled feels about it is an entirely separate deal and between you guys.

I think you have a long, long arduous road ahead of you. I see the pain you're in. I see the fear, the walls you've built, the hesitancy to dig deep and take a good long look in the mirror and accept how hard it's going to be learn and grow, to change and become the best possible version of yourself.

I have zero doubt - none at all - that this keen intellect of yours, that huge, bleeding heart within you, is capable of taking that journey. It's a sheer testament to your character that people like hikingout and sisoon refuse to give up on you. I refuse to give up on you.

But you have to want to do this for yourself - not for your husband, not for your daughter (although I'm sure she'd be grateful and proud of you), and sure as shit not for a bunch of strangers on the internet... but because you want this for yourself.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 6:42 AM, Monday, May 25th]

Unhinged, I appreciate every word you said. Thank you for being a friend. Y'know, if I were earlier in my healing work, her words might have pierced me to the core. You might remember how sensitive I could be, ha!

But she’s right about one thing I am an expert on "the work" because that is something I dedicated my life to. And still do. It's why I laugh at her pathetic rhetoric, her desperate attempts to rattle me with old ammunition, and her feigned interest in "trying to understand the person she's talking with." IMHO she wouldn't know what trying to understand *insert anything* is if it hit her like a ton of bricks.

And all she has to do is read that article to know where my wholehearted attempt to help comes from. She saw malice in my responses, and everyone else's, because malice is something buried so deep in her own being that she projects it onto anyone who doesn't follow the toxic script running in her head.

I wanted to come from a place of genuine help, which is why I originally refused to look into her other accounts that I kept hearing about, I didn't want to form a biased opinion of her. But I thought, maybe I should take a go at trying to "understand the person I'm talking with." So, last night I did a deep dive, and... OMG.

I must admit I chuckled a bit at the Scooby-Doo style villain reveal, where the monster mask (Ghostie) was ripped off, revealing an equally terrifying person underneath (TW). And the things she said following it didn't surprise me with how vile they were. Then to end it with thinking she actually had the power to shut down SI? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, how grandiose of her.

An apology from her? Ew, no thank you. I can actually hear her now, "Well, I wouldn't apologize to people who lack the intellectual capacity to understand objective hypotheses anyway." lol. Having just read through her posts, I have formed an accurate picture of who I was trying to help, and sadly, there is nothing more I can or, most importantly, want to offer.

That was a wild ride. And you all handled it amazingly. It was disturbing to read through at almost every turn. I felt a little sad for her at times, realizing there is a soul out there suffering as she is. Not because the meanies here at SI wouldn't stroke her ego, but because she needs phycological help.

For a moment I really thought she might just be trolling this site, but I'm not so sure anymore. I think there is a profound emotional void there, the kind that is completely beyond the reach of empathy. Empathy only works on people who actually possess a conscience. You can't pour light into a black hole and expect it to shine; it just swallows everything up.

I think Notarunnerup is right, saving our energy for someone who is actually looking for help is the kindest, most worthwhile thing we can do for ourselves. Leave her to the empty echo chamber of her own thoughts (terrifying).

I feel like I made a boundary for myself that was "I'm no longer persistently trying to fix miscommunications with people who don't want them to be fixed" and God said, "Alright, bet. Here's a bunch of gnarly tests..." And I failed most of them. I'm taking the failures as a learning opportunity though. I need to recognize the signs earlier, and disengage. Because really, where does engaging get me? Absolutely nowhere. And I have so many other things that I should be focused on right now.

I don't control what tone you decide to ascribe to my words. I don't control if you understand them. I am very direct and honest about my intent. I don't control whether or not you believe me when I describe my intent. I don't control which preconceived notions you come to the conversation with. I don't control your emotional reactions. I am genuinely sorry that you guys are upset.

If there is anything I found to be true, it is that we cannot live with integrity if we don't live with integrity everywhere. I mean, we ALL have work to do but in the end, we have to strive to do better. Your last forays into this forum ended with you insulting a lot of people and saying how awful this place is. And now you're back, not even telling us about your previous times on here. It seems that by not addressing and taking accountability for all the things you have said here i.e., apologising, you are being quite wayward. I can only imagine how it is for your poor BH.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:18 PM, Monday, May 25th]

The staff has noted the similarities between GTM, ghostie, tw, but there is still some doubt. GTM is so clearly in pain that we have let her run, since she has stayed within guidelines.