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I get a sense that he is trying to scare you here, he thinks he is threatening you to fall in line because he believes you are more scared of divorce and losing him than you are of letting him have sex with other people.

Ugh. Gross. That's probably true. My XWH said something similar when I just wasn't letting it go. "You'll never trust me again after what I did. We probably shouldn't even try" (self-pity, whine whine whine). I suck at passive-aggressive games, so I took him at his word and answered "Yeah, that's what I've been saying. Could you go back to your mom's while I figure out where to go and pack up?". Was pretty disappointed when he retracted that. So yeah, it's possibly some self-pitying victim manipulative game.

"let's talk about divorce tonight. I know you feel trapped. I know I will never earn your trust. Let's find a way to separate that has the least amount of impact on the kids. I should not have spent the money. I should have sucked it. I should have talked with you. Etc. "

That's a striking use of "Etc."

I agree that you should speak with a lawyer ASAP and not agree to anything related to the D yet. That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing general logistics and such with the kids. You'll need a parenting plan and such regardless.

I just got a text from him saying "let's talk about divorce tonight. I know you feel trapped. I know I will never earn your trust. Let's find a way to separate that has the least amount of impact on the kids. I should not have spent the money. I should have sucked it. I should have talked with you. Etc. "

Respond and say something like "I agree, you've really left us no choice. You're not trying to earn my trust back, and I won't give you permission to cheat which you seem to desperately want, so we're at an impasse. I will start researching lawywers and state laws on alimony, custody and child support. You can retain your own lawyer. Looking forward to talking further."

Just going to say, your husband is a stupid man playing stupid games and deserves all the stupid prizes as a result.

I am normally a pretty high functioning individual haha! I know that right now I am not working with all my faculties.

I am willing to bet that most of us don't act rationally, and with all of the recent revelations, it's keeping you in a state of shock which makes it that much harder. Don't be too hard on yourself. I don't think most of us get this right immediately out of the infidelity gate.

I get a sense that he is trying to scare you here, he thinks he is threatening you to fall in line because he believes you are more scared of divorce and losing him than you are of letting him have sex with other people.

Ooooh mine did this too. I believe the words he used (verbatim because even all this time later they still make me WTF...) "You need to get on board with this. I ​need to have meaningful romatic relationships with other women and you are just gonna have to find a way to deal with that."

You know, I actually did "find a way to deal with that". I divorced his ridiculous ass and haven't regretted it, not once.

Divorce can be a beautiful sacred gift to yourself.

DevastatedDee, I think I'm gonna print that out and put it on my wall. In fact, it's been my own experience so far (I'm in the middle of a heinous divorce) that the worse the pain and difficulty of divorcing, the more clearly you can see and embrace how true that is.

StuckinBetween if you divorce, I hope your path is an easy one. But no matter what, that's a winner of a statement right there.

[This message edited by Slanted at 12:02 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)]

EllieKMAS if you divorce, I hope your path is an easy one. But no matter what, that's a winner of a statement right there.

My divorce was final Dec 2019, thank goodness. Life has been WAY better ever since!

“I accept that since I am not willing to let you freely screw around and waste our marital assets in purchasing sex and since you aren’t willing to stop and change that divorce is inevitable. Our state has some clear guidelines on how our debts and assets will be handled, as well as how we will deal with custody, support and all that. It’s too complex for me to deal with properly so I will get an attorney that will ensure my rights are guaranteed. I wont make it harder than it need be and if you want then my attorney can handle the whole package. But I won’t be talking details with you”

This and any other similar responses like it is the only discussion you need with him.

Start interviewing attorneys now. Know your rights. Knowledge is power.

$10,000 of martial funds squandered on his so called needs. He only cares for himself.

let's talk about divorce tonight. I know you feel trapped. I know I will never earn your trust. Let's find a way to separate that has the least amount of impact on the kids. I should not have spent the money. I should have sucked it. I should have talked with you. Etc.

Often people will say things like this because they want a response such as:

“No I don’t want a divorce... I will trust you! I don’t want to impact the kids! Forget about the money spent, you don’t have to suck it, we’ll find a way”

If you take a step back, do you want to be with a man that treats you this way? I can assure you that in every marriage, there’s a discrepancy between the sexual need of both partners. Compromises are made and life goes on.

Imagine telling him that he cannot satisfy you, you need a man with a bigger dick, so you will date some men, and give those men some money as a big thank you, and you’d like him to take care of the kids while you go out, thank you very much; do you think that would fly? No?

Why not do it? Would it be because you don’t do those things to a spouse you love. But, wait, why is he doing it then?

If he’s asking for divorce, it’s best to consult a lawyer and have a good understanding of what to expect in a divorce.

Stuck,

Get thee to a good D lawyer. Find out your rights and duties. Find out what a likely settlement will be. Protect yourself.

Take a look at The Simplified 180. If it makes sense to you, and I hope it does, start practicing it. You can find it here: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=598080.

Your H just isn't good H material now.

*****

In open relationships, the power and sexual dynamic is in the hands of the female partner.

That's true ... for men who see themselves as Victims of women and, perhaps, of life....

Look, men have power. Women have power. From my perspective and yours, women have more choice than men do WRT sex, but I've known a lot of attractive women who see it the other way. IOW, the truth probably lies in between.

If you think you're a victim, my reco is to read about the Drama Triangle, especially stuff written by Steve Karpman, to learn if you're really a victim or if you're selling yourself out.

Sorry about that EllieKMAS -- I meant to refer to the OP! But I am very glad to hear that things have been better since you got through that. I hope to be in that state soon too!

I just got a text from him saying "let's talk about divorce tonight. I know you feel trapped. I know I will never earn your trust. Let's find a way to separate that has the least amount of impact on the kids. I should not have spent the money. I should have sucked it. I should have talked with you. Etc. "

There are basically three methods a cheater uses to try and manipulate us. They are... charm, self-pity, and rage. Looks like what you have above is the "self-pity" setting. Don't buy it. He already knew that you didn't want a divorce. If you think about it, the fact that you haven't blown up at him to demand one after finding the text messages and then him coming to you suggesting opening the marriage. If you wanted a divorce, he's figuring you would have said so by now. So, I think he's trying to get you to do a "pick me" dance for him to prove you want to save the marriage and so he doesn't have to face any consequences. You might even see some crocodile tears. I wouldn't be surprised.

Here's the thing though... it's really too early for you to be forced into a decision about whether you want to save the marriage. Prostitutes might change things for you. There's an "ick" factor to it which causes a massive loss of respect and makes you wonder what his attitude toward women in general really is. You said he's a teacher. Are there young girls in his classroom?, because the fact that he would go to a hooker has to leave you wondering how long it will be until he does something horrible which bankrupts your whole family. Right now, the kneejerk reaction is to try and return to status quo, but the problem with that is that sometimes the love doesn't survive the betrayal.

Anyway, I just wanted to prepare you for further confrontation. Remember that YOU didn't do this. He is 100% responsible for his choice to cheat. His argument is that he wasn't getting enough at home or what he wanted at home. But NO ONE is "owed" sex, not even when we're married. People need to negotiate for sex. Oftentimes, what that means is working toward an emotionally intimate relationship so that both partners are comfortable enough for sex. It was HIS job to either negotiate what he wanted from you or to leave in an honorable way if that had become impossible. There is NEVER an acceptable reason for cheating.

One more thing... you are NOT his secret keeper. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they're willing to get help. Don't agree to protect his ugly secrets. You need a support network in real life. That means therapist and trusted friends/family who know the facts. If he didn't want people to know he's the kind of guy who pays for whores, he had the option to NOT be that guy. Don't cover for him.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

((hugs))

It is so humiliating

Nah. What's happened is life has landed on you like an avalanche. This might be the hardest thing you ever have to face. You're doing your best in really tough circumstances.

Hey good luck tonight when you have your talk with him.

We didn't really have much of a talk about D. I don't think it is really a scare tactic on his part, but, hey, I could be wrong. Yesterday he maintained this narrative: everything everything I did was wrong. You are not responsible for my decisions. You are not to blame. I was resentful. Our sex life was vanilla. You wouldn't compromise on things, we couldn't even talk about them (specific sex act). I told him I had a boundary around that but he wasn't having it, saying I wouldn't even talk about it. We couldn't even compromise. I said, "So you took our money and went out and got it right?" To which he agreed.

He doesn't. blame me but he was resentful. He didn't want to hurt me but he was resentful and knew I would find out. A total walking contradiction.

Today I am working on the 180, but it is hard. Also have to get through my work day.

Well he's telling himself what he needs to to avoid facing the kind of person he is. I love sex quite a lot and I can't say that my XWH was exactly blowing my mind in that area in the last year before DDay. You didn't find me out getting what I wanted because that would have been a horrible thing to do. I was eaten up with resentment, but I didn't feel entitled to just go get it elsewhere. And it would have been free. I wouldn't have needed to pay a dime. I presume he hasn't exactly been husband of the year for a while either. Didn't see you out trawling the streets and dating sites for better treatment.

None of this is on you, but I know he'll continue to say that it was. He's a poor victim right now.

These post-DDay work days are so hard. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

I found more spending. We are now totalling over $18,000 in 3 months. He sent $500 to someone he has never even seen yet. Bought 3 people lingerie.

He didn't seem to have done anything prior to this past January (well at least not anything in 2020 or late 2019).

He didn't seem to get it when I told him he has destroyed our family. He seemed surprised.

OMG. That is a huge amount of money. That would be a problem if he'd spent it on model trains, much less women. And no, my XWH didn't get that he'd destroyed everything with that either. I don't know how they normalize that behavior in their heads, but it always seems to be a suprise when other people are appalled and horrified.

I'll be honest, I would be making an appointment with an attorney today. He's NOT going to change his tune until he believes you're SERIOUS. Right now, he's a mixed bag of blame-shifting and apologizing. He's not where he needs to be until he's willing to get help for his sexual misconduct and impulse control, and when he admits he had NO RIGHT to try to compel you to a particular sex act. You DO NOT owe sex. Period. Ever. If that sex act was more important to him than your love and your marriage, he had an obligation to LEAVE THE MARRIAGE rather than to cheat behind your back. And frankly, if someone is so invested in a particular sex act that it's more important than the person he wants to have it with... you're better off knowing how little regard he has for you.

He's spent 18k of your money so far... don't feel bad about spending a little on an attorney.

And if you haven't made an appointment yet, call your doctor or GYN and get STD testing. Believe me, they've heard it all. There's nothing to be embarrassed about. You're the victim here.

ETA: He did this during COVID, so don't trust anything he says about mitigating his risk. Get the testing. Covid has killed over 3 million people. He risked your LIFE... for a sex act.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 2:32 PM, April 29th (Thursday)]

I had the joy of getting HPV and having pre-cancerous cells removed. Pretty fun stuff. All so my XWH could have sex that he could have gotten enthusiastically at home for free. Definitely get tested for all the things.

This is why I say don't buy into it being you. Men with all kinds of sex lives with their wives do this same crap. Mine didn't have that particular excuse to pull out of his behind, but he would have used it if he could have. He used "we grew apart", which was also bullshit. He pulled away, turned me down for sex quite a lot and told me he was battling depression and I tried to help by being extra supportive. Still got blamed for us "growing apart". This was not about you. He is going to keep trying to plant that in your head and part of you will believe it, but it's not true.

Agreed, Dee. Mine tried to claim that we weren't having enough sex at home. But the FACTS were that we were having a normal amount of sex and that if he wanted more, he could have gotten it easily enough. He claimed we had lost "connection", but the fact was... HE had been the one to emotionally withdraw.

It wasn't about me or our sex life. It was about HIM and his pornography. He had started watching amateur porn and I honestly think he became aroused at the idea of acting it out. So, it wasn't about sex. It was about sex with strangers. It was about sex with others. And as I've read online... we might be able to address a lot of things, but we can't be new and we can't turn into a smorgasbord of pussy.

This wasn't about you, StuckinBetween.

((hugs))