SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I watched a video of Dr Kathy Nickerson this morning that was about the 5 signs someone would cheat. They included:

1. Avoidant attachment

2. Narcissist tendancies/self entitlement

3. Poor coping skills

4. Family history of cheating

5. Ability to compartmentalise

My husband had all of these. Some of these traits have helped me understand and forgive him. For example ..he wasn't taught coping skills by his mother, he learnt cheating was normal in his family and his work in the army and the police taught him to compartmentalise.

Where I struggle is the self entitlement/narcissist tendancies. The way he must have had to rationalise the affair to himself as 'I deserve this'. I said he felt the world revolved around him and me and the kids were just characters in his story not individual humans with our own feelings, hopes or dreams.

When I look back through our relationship...this tendancy has always been present. In one way he is the kind of guy who would give you the shirt off his back (but he'd probably would have looked round to see who noticed 😂!) but his ability to have a 2 year sexting/booty calls PA demonstrates that deep down he was a selfish guy.

I just find this trait so unattractive! And whilst I genuinely have forgiven him for the affair, love him, and feel empathy for him. Everytime he does something that reminds me of this trait or other traits I do not like I feel put off him and pull away especially in terms of affection.

For example, not a sign of self entitlement, but he injured himself training a few weeks back because he had to 'prove' he could overpower another guy (who was several years younger and fitter than him) on training to prove to others it could be done. Result was an injury that took weeks to recover. I told him he should have put his dick away as I just see as pathetic machosism.

I know people can change. I don't think he's as bad as the version he was when he cheated on me but obviously some of these traits are just his personality and cannot be eradicated without eradicating him!

I just find it a turn off and a disappointment I married someone who I view as weak in character and it makes me struggle to feel affection towards him in the day to day...for example, when he injured himself at training I couldn't give a shit. Likewise if he says he has had a bad night's sleep. I'm also annoyed I dated lots of healthy individuals before my husband but wasn't attracted to them so I've only got myself to blame for choosing my husband 🙄 I knew he was weak, I knew deep down he'd cheat on me which is why I asked him regularly. I was just in bloody awe, love and probably limerance with him and by the time I truly saw who he was we were 5 years in, married with 3 kids and unbeknownst to me he was already cheating 🙄

I know he's changed a lot since then even before DD and since DD he's become the model husband and is doing everything right - looking after me, talking to me, taking over 90% of the housework, booking dates, putting in boundaries with family etc. I genuinely love spending time with him and our family but this 'ick' feeling is still there. It's like I love him but now I see him clearly for the first time in our relationship it's like I've woken up and when I think about it... I don't really like who he is 😞

Is this normal? Will it pass or is it a sign I won't ever feel genuine affection for him again? I still want this to work. I want the dream of growing old with him. We have so much in common, so much shared history (although our versions of that history clearly differ vastly but that's on him not me, I can look back at my version with fondness and pride which unfortunately he can't) and there is so much love there but am I just flogging a dead horse? I don't want to be back here in 10 years like some posters just coasting through life with a man I love but don't feel affection or respect for.

[This message edited by Evio at 9:53 AM, Thursday, February 26th]

Evio,

Please don’t think I’m angry or criticizing. Your post has just triggered something I think about.

I often note women wishing that men would be more like women. I rarely note men wishing that women would be more like men.

Men seem to be pretty happy with the way women are. Women, I think, would change lots about men.

You’ve heard the old joke:

"When a woman gets married, she hopes her husband will change, but he won’t.

When a man gets married, he hopes his wife will stay the same, but she won’t."

"pathetic machoism"

Pathetic machoism is what kept women safe, protected, cared for, over the millennia.

Not so much needed anymore, but still wired in.

(And I understand that women buy shoes to compete with other women?)

Thank you Former people person. It's good to be pulled up on my thought process sometimes. Yep I guess my post was a bit sexist tbh. I think I'm probably angry at men in general (I think a lot of the world are right now) and I guess as a former police officer myself I have experienced A LOT of toxic masculinity.

My husband has won awards for his bravery, for literally saving women's lives ..but his pathetic need to be desired and avoid those scary things called feelings meant he risked my life, the mother of his kids. Ironic.

I just admired and respected him so much for his bravery and stoicism, now I just see it as weakness and avoidance. I want to admire and respect my husband again I just don't know how to get that feeling back 😞

You're 14-15 months out, and I think the thoughts you describe are not uncommon about that time. IIRC, I went through something similar. I can't predict what will happen. My reco is to monitor yourself and your WS. I expect you'll go back and forth for a while (maybe a long while) and eventually come down on the turned-on or the turned-off side.

You say you have forgiven your H. Has he earned forgiveness? (That's a question I hope you answer, but you have no obligation to share your answer.) Unearned forgiveness isn't reliable.

Thanks Sissoon. I just hate the rollercoaster of emotions.

Has he earned forgiveness? I don't think he can ever truly earn forgiveness for what he has done but I have chosen to forgive him as I have seen true remorse, accountability, he has never blamed me, he demonstrates disgust at his behaviour and has put boundaries in place I have requested and some I haven't with his FOO. I see a truly remorseful, regretful man and I'm so sad he did this to himself as well as me.

But, although I forgive him, it doesn't change who he is. I feel he will always battle his desire to shut down and avoid shame, conflict and any uncomfortable feelings. It will never come naturally to him. Neither will emotional intelligence - that will always be a work in process.

I know he wants to be a better man for me and our kids. He realises he became the man he despised as a teenager (the man who cheated with his mum) and he will always carry that shame.

My wife is a much better version of herself than ever before — and yet — those conflict avoidance skills she learned through her childhood are still there.

It was definitely a source of frustration early on as we tried to put this M back together, but some elements of her will always be there. The key is, I focus on the things she was able to change. While she can still be avoidant, she does communicate better.

What I had to do was be a bit more patient and learn her cues (i.e., when she goes quiet or avoids eye contact, it means she is trying to figure out how to get around a potential negative information exchange).

If there is still a lot of good in your husband, focus on that. If he is working to be better at the best of his ability, focus on that too.

As I’ve said before, if all you can see is the bad choices and damage done, not much chance to rebuild anything. And, I understand when people cannot get around these things.

I started with knowing my M was burned down to foundation and had to find what was good about my wife and us as a couple to work with.

You have the list of the faults and the list of things that went wrong, all which are hard earned, horrible lessons.

Next up, if you aren’t done with the M, is to look at the list of things that are going better.

It doesn’t mean we ignore or forget any of the bad! It just means that if you’re going to stay, the rebuilt foundation starts with the good stuff.

Thanks Oldwounds. I'm learning what triggers him to shit down and trying to work with that.
There's more good in my husband than bad. I truly believe he is a good man who behaved appallingly.
I think I've just had a stressful 24 hours with unrelated things with the kids and my brain just defaults to the affair and screams 'not safe', 'run' and then I get myself in a spiral. I think it's because when the going gets tough, I don't trust my husband to be there for me because he wasn't before and I guess that's going to take years of showing up to make believe that he will be there for the good and the bad times.

Evio,

If I lived in a world with no rules, no consequences, no wife, no pregnancy, no disease, and the women were willing, I’d jump about half of all the women I see every day. (Maybe more, but I don’t want to seem gross.)

Now, I’ve never told my wife this. Would it make her feel unsafe if she knew it? Maybe.

So should I work to change this about myself, to rewire what I think is in my dna?

Or should I make sure I keep that inclination under control? I always have, and believe I always will. And this is what my wife should take comfort in.

And so to you: Maybe don’t focus on what might be in your husband’s basic wiring. It is what it is and hard (impossible?) to change.

Instead, focus on his behavior. Has his big brain learned to overcome his dna; can he behave well even though he might not be so inclined.

Don’t be scared because he thinks wrong; feel safe because he has learned to behave properly.

Best wishes.

The key is, I focus on the things she was able to change.

The changes a WS can make won't be holistic. What's critical, I believe, is recognizing whatever issue(s) lead them down Infidelity Lane are remaining mindful of those issues.

I have a tendency to avoid conflict. That tendency will always be with me. However, knowing that this tendency often causes more problems than it solves allows me to make better decisions when conflicts arise. It's never 100%, of course, but as time passes and I stay mindful it becomes easier. It like any other skill in life; the more one practices the better one becomes.

As for rebuilding trust and connection, that may happen and it may not. The betrayal of infidelity fundamentally and permanently changes the nature of a relationship. It's not easy, by any stretch of the imagination, to understand how these changes will play out in the future. It's one of the reasons why I always encourage every BS in R to get as comfortable as possible with divorce. It's only when we are at peace with letting go of the outcome that we are able to actively choose to remain or leave. It's the liberation that brings some of that peace.

Rather than strive to be happy in your marriage, strive to find happiness within yourself.

Rather than strive to be happy in your marriage, strive to find happiness within yourself.

Happiness from within, I am 100 percent on board with that -- however -- R is a two-front war.

It's okay to want more from the M and aim for a better M, to me that's actually a part of R.

Recover from the trauma, find oneself and then if a BS decides to stay, it should only ever be because the M is worth staying for.

And I think by listing her concerns, Evio is standing up for herself, which I think is a big step in healing, whether she stays or not.

Former - I believe he has learned to act properly. Whilst I can't say I would jump over half the men in world if there were no consequences (Im extremely picky 😂) I obviously recognise I have been attracted to other people during the duration of our marriage but my boundaries have also been strong and I have never acted in it. Now my husband has seen the consequences of his poor boundaries, including if you read my other post the loss of his children's respect, I doubt he'd ever do this to us, or anyone ever again. I do wonder if he's parents had actually spoken to him about the fallout from his mother's affair, he would have behaved differently in the future, who knows 🤷
I just need to work past the fact that he was this man, he did have those poor boundaries and he did give in to his natural avoidance and ended up hurting all the people he loved. I think deep down, on top of poor coping skills and entitlement, he feared abandonment and being hurt so got in first and it's only now he has realised that I am the only person who has loved him unconditionally and now he risks losing me.

Unhinged - I am working on myself and my own happiness and have started to put myself first and have fully thrown myself into using this as an opportunity to create the life I want and I wouldn't say I'm comfortable with divorce (I don't think anyone wants to divorce) but it is firmly on the table.

Oldwounds - you're right I am standing up for myself and like you said, my old marriage is burned to the ground, so if I want to continue to have a marriage with my husband it has to be a marriage worth the effort.
I have passed the stage where I felt my life was over and I would never heal and got that fire back in my belly and that determination to make the rest of my life as good as can be with it without my husband.

Oldwounds, did you ever do anything symbolically to represent the new version of the marriage? I do not want to do a vow renewal but if money was no object I would seriously consider divorcing and remarrying with new vows!