SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well, it is now 15 years since DD#2, and I find myself checking-out the forums as I seem to do this time of year every year. The changing colors and longer days never fail to trigger, and then I feel compelled to read through some of the recent SI posts looking for I-don't-know-what. Typically, 20-30 minutes of reading suffices, and I move on (still triggered, but not ruminating excessively). This year, however, my WW is traveling for work (as she was when her affair began), and my anxiety levels are through the roof.

I've always felt a bit remedial where recovery is concerned, but I was content, recognizing that each year was easier than the year before. This week, however, I'm beginning to wonder whether "remedial" is too generous. It seems like everyone posting with 10+ years of recovery behind them is in a much better place. Is it that unusual to be this far out without feeling fully healed? I used to be happy-go-lucky and RIDICULOUSLY trusting. Now, my personality is closer to dour, and I silently question everything I hear. Am I just an extreme outlier?

Yeah... 15 years out and "anxiety through the roof" isn't something I have seen on SI. Something is certainly amiss.

Spidey senses tingling? Maybe she's at it again? Unresolved issues?

ETA: What do you think is causing this anxiety?

[This message edited by Unhinged at 2:36 AM, Wednesday, October 15th]

Am I just an extreme outlier?

I wouldn’t go with extreme anything — you are being honest with yourself and your feelings, to me, that’s always a place to start.

We all heal at our own pace, and I don’t know what you’ve done so far to heal.

Questioning everything is also good, as all of us have learned, blind trust was never a good idea.

I still get triggers at ten-years out, but they don’t last and it doesn’t take long to focus on the things that are going well.

While we all heal at our own pace, somewhere along the way, we get some choices about how we feel. The best advice I got here was we tend to hit what we’re aiming for.

Did you ever do any counseling or have any friends and family you have leaned on during your recovery?

Spidey senses tingling? Maybe she's at it again?

I really don't think so, but my judgment in that regard has been spectacularly bad. Still, there are none of the same red flags as before.

Unresolved issues?

Doubtless. I still seethe when I think about the entire, wasted year full of lies following DD#1. During MC and outside of MC I don't think she told me one single truth when I questioned her about the affair. She just lied over and over -- even when I confronted her with inconsistencies. She didn't break down until I finally compared detailed notes with the other BS then started to pack my bags. Then, she conveniently had forgotten many of the details after such a very long time! ... I'm really not this bitter, normally; it is just one of those days (blessedly rare over the past few years).

ETA: What do you think is causing this anxiety?

I think it's a combination of things: The anniversary; the weather; the fall colors; an errand that took me past a place where they met up; poor sleep; a week without exercise; then nearly 24 hours without a text or call from my wife (whom I'm sure is oblivious about the date).

We all heal at our own pace, and I don’t know what you’ve done so far to heal.

I did EMDR for about a year and continued IC for a little while after that. We did MC for about two years, but looking back, I have to wonder about the counselor's competency. She swallowed all of the lies as if she had never seen a wayward spouse be dishonest about anything in a MC session. She even encouraged me to let her take a trip out of town to spend time with her family (when she actually met up with her lover for another wild week)! I think the counselor must have been an even bigger dumb ass than I was (and that is really saying something).

I still get triggers at ten-years out, but they don’t last and it doesn’t take long to focus on the things that are going well.

That is typically how I react, but there is rarely a day where it doesn't at least briefly cross my mind.

The best advice I got here was we tend to hit what we’re aiming for.

I'd like to think that I'm aiming higher than I'm currently hitting. I haven't sought out any of the things that have triggered me over the past couple of years: Photos while trying to clean up the photo library; an email from the AP (to me!) while archiving emails from an account I was closing; an encounter with the AP, etc.

I expected to be further along than this, and I'm beginning to worry that I've stalled-out. I suppose it's time to bite the bullet and find a new therapist.

Asdf,

It was the 32-year anniversary that led to me seeking out a place to find comfort. I don’t think anyone can put a timestamp on how one should or shouldn’t act when an anniversary occurs. Our minds, for some reason I sure don’t understand, are wired to remember anniversaries. It doesn’t matter whether it is a birthday, holiday, wedding, divorce, war, or infidelity, anniversaries are a time of reflection. So no, I don’t think you are

an extreme outlier

for feeling what you are feeling. As I see it, the larger question is how are you "now" going to react to your level of anxiety. It may be "through the roof" but does it have to control your reaction to it? It is of my opinion that a betrayed spouse does not have control over an infidelity-anniversary’s pain but they do have power over how they manage their pain. And maybe that is why you tend to return to this site during this time. It might be that returning here is a way you have found, like I did, to manage the pain in a way that is healthy and not destructive to your relationship with your spouse. Or at least, that is why I’m here listening and sharing.

Asterisk

I still seethe when I think about the entire, wasted year full of lies following DD#1.

So you’re at most nine years out, after a year of the betrayal being compounded through injurious gaslighting. Was remorse shown for that?

There is healing in your awareness of a cluster of triggers affecting the nervous system. It’s just trying to look after you so treat yourself and it with compassion. Your FWW’s obliviousness/ being out of touch (literally and metaphorically) is not helpful to the situation, perhaps that is what irks most of all? I feel irked on your behalf.

I’m incidentally more than fifteen years out and last week had to be in DNC (dirty northern affair city) for the first time since DD1. It was good to reclaim the territory but my nervous system was a bit aroused. I’m grateful to it for trying to keep me safe and worked through it with a lot of somatic breathing/ stretching in the hotel room to teach it that it was ok. Sometimes you have to work from the bottom up (body/ parasympathetic nervous system) rather than the top down (trying to think your way out of it). Our bodies are doing brilliant job of keeping us safe and we can work at reclaiming those PTSD trigger moments - how can you turn fall memories into something more positive for you, using neuroplasticity, for example?

[This message edited by Edie at 9:25 AM, Wednesday, October 15th]

You asked almost this exact question 10 years ago.

I think a better question to ask is not "Should I be feeling this way after 15 years?" but "Do I want to continue feeling this way? Is this the person I want to be for the rest of my life?"

Returning to this thread to recommend reading Lisa Feldman Barrett on the neuroscience of anxiety - and how we can work with the high voltage data predictive machine that is the brain and train it to create new predictions (how to create new meaning arising from past experience meeting the present) that reduces anxious prediction/ worry. It feels like your wife’s current absence and silence may be leading the predictive processing to feed your anxiety. Can you together as a team re conceptualise the triggers and make new meaning with them. Or is it that her current silence demonstrative of a lack of care or empathy causes you genuine concern more generally irrespective of triggers?

11 years out. Been getting triggered a great deal lately but that’s more to do with circumstance than anything my wife is doing. It’s just something you need to learn to live with. It never really goes away. It’s the skeleton in the closet. We bandaid it with some new get fixed fast scheme but the reality is it’s just there. Like a limp that won’t go away. It’s just there.

Have you put some thought into maybe you’re not built to forgive cheating?
Not to say that trying isn’t noble, but some of us are not capable of keeping a unfaithful partner around.

Asdf, what would you like to have happen?

I understand the feeling. For me it is more "conditional safety". My M feels safe when the situation that fww is in would make it difficult to relapse. In a way, I trust the conditions, not always the person. There's a big difference between being away in a hotel room, in a bar, etc... compared to being at work, in a shopping mall, etc...
For me, that stems from us not completing all the necessary steps for a successful R. We get along well most of the time. And most of the time I trust the situation. It won't change until I do something about it. That would probably be too much for fww to handle, and I don't know that I have the strength or desire to fight anymore.

Rhetorically, is whatever you have good enough to keep? If not, is it worth trying to fix at the risk of D? You know what you need, go get that whatever it is.

I feel for you. I wish you peace in your journey to find the answers.

You aren’t a complete outlier, but this outcome is what I learned to fear most by reading SI. Too many people report not returning to good post infidelity, and my non-scientific observations on that is it is only people who stay with their betrayer.

If you’ve been asking, at BTB says, this same thing for a decade, man I’d say do something different. No person is worth a lifetime of misery, and I do believe getting away from our betrayers is a significant boost to healing.

My two cents. Best wishes.

Hmmmm. I didn't realize this was so long when I posted it. I guess I got carried away. Sorry.

As I see it, the larger question is how are you "now" going to react to your level of anxiety.

Well, I've definitely seen improvement in my ability to deal with anxiety. I can now get back to an even keel by taking some simple steps (getting decent sleep; exercising; then focusing on something else entirely -- usually a book). Thankfully, I'm in a much better place than yesterday. I am not happy about my progress overall, though, and I'm getting the impression that it doesn't have to be this way. I reached out to a couple of people to get recommendations for therapists, and I plan to move forward with that (despite striking out with my last couple of attempts to find someone I clicked with).

I’m incidentally more than fifteen years out and last week had to be in DNC (dirty northern affair city) for the first time since DD1.

Heh, I have a couple of friends who can't understand why I hate the community that the AP lives in so badly.

Our bodies are doing brilliant job of keeping us safe and we can work at reclaiming those PTSD trigger moments - how can you turn fall memories into something more positive for you, using neuroplasticity, for example?

I'm not sure what the answer to that is, ... yet. I did some poking around the Book Club forum as well as the healing library and wound up buy the Steven Stosny book (Living and Loving After Betrayal). He has exercises in his book for creating new, positive associations with triggers. I've been skipping the exercises while doing a quick read-through. I'll circle back and do the exercises after finishing the first read.

You asked almost this exact question 10 years ago.

I think a better question to ask is not "Should I be feeling this way after 15 years?" but "Do I want to continue feeling this way? Is this the person I want to be for the rest of my life?"

Oh, wow! I checked my profile to see what I had posted before, but it didn't show any history. I wonder if I have a pop-up blocker or something preventing me from seeing content.

It doesn't surprise me that I asked the same question. Within weeks of DDay I was wondering how much longer I'd feel like I'd rather be dead. I remember looking at the Reconciliation forum exclusively, because it was hopeful. I tried to do all of the right things (IC, MC, journaling, etc.), desperate to feel normal again. Eventually I got to mostly normal, but never to a point that I would consider "healed." I thought it must be like the death of a loved one where, eventually, you can just remember them and can be happy without the stabbing pain of remembering their death. Nope.

I think that answers your question: No, I don't want to continue feeling this way. I'm not where I want to be (even though I feel relatively normal most days; the contrast with that pitiful thing that first stumbled across this board after DDay is unbelievable).

It feels like your wife’s current absence and silence may be leading the predictive processing to feed your anxiety. Can you together as a team re conceptualise the triggers and make new meaning with them. Or is it that her current silence demonstrative of a lack of care or empathy causes you genuine concern more generally irrespective of triggers?

I think it's more that I was already triggered and unable to think rationally. I'm fairly confident that she has been faithful to me since everything was finally exposed. I will never be certain of that again, though.

We bandaid it with some new get fixed fast scheme but the reality is it’s just there. Like a limp that won’t go away. It’s just there.

That was my fear. If there's a realistic chance of true healing, though, I'm willing to do the work and see where it gets me. I know I'll need to find a therapist that's quite a bit better than the last two flakes I saw, though (I hadn't realized that recovering "repressed memories" was still a thing).

Have you put some thought into maybe you’re not built to forgive cheating?

Not to say that trying isn’t noble, but some of us are not capable of keeping a unfaithful partner around.

I'm not 100% sure why, but this really made me laugh! Yes, I've put a lot of thought into that over the years. When I look back, I'm disgusted with myself. I should have left. I think I would be in a much better place if I had. The problem is that I love her. I don't think I've forgiven her, but I'm not sure; I'm not certain I even know what it means. I get the impression that any two people can be talking about two wildly different things when they discuss forgiveness.

I think I understand how it happened. It seems like it progressed exactly along the lines of what Shirley Glass discusses in Not Just Friends. The "fog" makes sense. The shame and the need to lie are understandable. Putting me through more than a year of nothing but lies when she KNEW what I needed in order to heal is too much for me, though. I wasted SO much time in MC (sometimes twice a week), and we spent a fortune with no insurance coverage for MC. However, I love her, and I know she loves me (otherwise she would never have suffered through my recovery, which was ugly).

Funnily enough, her sister was condemning one of her friends who had had an affair, and I found myself defending her ... in a way. Essentially I told her that people were weak and could make massive mistakes without necessarily being irredeemably bad. Her sister disagreed, and she is now convinced that I cheated on my wife, because she knew that something was very wrong with her sister and our relationship after DDay.

Asdf, what would you like to have happen?

I would like to get my shit together. Despite the EMDR and IC, I don't think I processed everything properly. I was pathetic; I was more concerned about the relationship than taking care of myself. Part of that was my WW's fault, but I was responsible for doing my part properly, and I guess I failed. The Stosny book talks about ongoing, low-level resentment resulting from the failure of the BS to process everything before focusing on the relationship. I suspect that that's what happened with me.

For me, that stems from us not completing all the necessary steps for a successful R. We get along well most of the time. And most of the time I trust the situation. It won't change until I do something about it. That would probably be too much for fww to handle, and I don't know that I have the strength or desire to fight anymore.

It sounds like we are in a somewhat similar situation. Looking back, our MC was pretty much a total waste of time and money (I can still get worked into a frothing-at-the-mouth anger when I remember the MC taking my WW's side when she was 100% lying, and I called her out on it. She had the nerve to say "I know her, and I know she's telling the truth. What an ass hole!).

Anyway, I put my WW through Hell for the first two to thee years, and she took it and came back for more. Let me qualify that: I'm not giving her one damned bit of credit for that first year of Hell. That was karma for all the lies during and out of MC. So, despite my tendency to occasionally trigger, I do not want her to hurt anymore, even if I may be entitled to expect more. I like myself better if I'm not hurting her.

So, relationship-wise we are in a reasonably good place, and it's improving. I will NEVER trust her completely, and there is nothing that could change that. She may cheat on me again. She may have already cheated on me. I think it's unlikely, though. I'm confident I will know something is up if she's ever in a relationship like before. If that ever came to pass there would be scorched earth and salted fields.

Now, I just want to fix me.

[This message edited by asdf at 6:47 AM, Thursday, October 16th]

You aren’t a complete outlier, but this outcome is what I learned to fear most by reading SI. Too many people report not returning to good post infidelity, and my non-scientific observations on that is it is only people who stay with their betrayer.

If you’ve been asking, at BTB says, this same thing for a decade, man I’d say do something different. No person is worth a lifetime of misery, and I do believe getting away from our betrayers is a significant boost to healing.

My two cents. Best wishes.

I have a friend who divorced her husband as fast as she could after D-day. She said it was tough, but it was much easier than reconciliation. She said she was completely over him within the year and was just enjoying reports of her WH's marriage with the AP disintegrating.

If I had known what reconciliation would be like, I likely would have thrown in the towel.

It reminds me of another friend who had gone through a bone marrow transplant (many years ago) as a last resort to save his life. There were complications, and it was brutal. He survived, though. He had a wife and two small children. Even with so much to live for, he said if he had truly understood what it would be like, he would have chosen to die.

I'm glad I didn't know what I had signed up for when I chose to stay, because I would have taken the easier path. I'm in a better place because I stayed.

Now, if she ends up cheating on me again, I'll come back and eat my words. It wouldn't be the first time.

I would like to get my shit together. Despite the EMDR and IC, I don't think I processed everything properly.

*nods head*

And processing everything properly would be like what? What kind of properly is that properly?

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 12:02 PM, Thursday, October 16th]

"Her sister disagreed, and she is now convinced that I cheated on my wife, because she knew that something was very wrong with her sister and our relationship after DDay."

Does your wife know you are convinced of this? She should be willing to dispel this.

I’m still hurt by things that happened in 1978, so there’s that. And since the most recent DDay it all seems fresh again.

I read that there are five outcomes from affairs.

One is divorce right away. The opposite is a completely happy and recovered marriage. In between there are various "recovery levels", one of which is a kind of going-through-the-motions of marriage but no longer happy or connected. One is kind of happy, not rocking the boat, but not really connected either.

I kind of see this in recovery patterns, for sure. Many people remain married, but they kind of live separate lives. More like roommates I guess.

But the truth is I see it in marriages even without infidelity issues.

Those unresolved issues just start to exert more pressure on people, and over time they pull back from even trying to pursue the solution.