SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know I don’t need to tell anyone here that when a spouse’s infidelity comes to light, whether by disclosure or discovery, it is an earthquake to a betrayed person’s mental and physical wellbeing. Everything is shaken to the core. The marriage structure, once seen as built upon a solid, unadulterated foundation, now lay shattered on its fractured footing.

I don’t know about all betrayed spouses, but for me, not one corner of my life was left standing whole. The 10.0 tremor of D-day weakened and fractured everything I thought I knew and believed.

Each trickle truth, an after-shock creating new fissures. Each unwanted recall, a PTSD remembrance, intensified by my runaway imagination. Each anniversary of the marriage is accompanied with one divisive question, "Who really is this stranger I chose to wed?". Each anniversary of D-day an annual shattering of the already broken pieces.

There are endless aspects of infidelity that rupture a betrayed person’s understanding of the world he or she thought they lived in. However, there is one that I hadn’t considered until reading so many other, fellow betrayed spouses’ accounts. I’m beginning to wonder maybe it is not the individual, sordid details of the affair but the fragmentation of oneself due to the adultery that causes the deepest, widest rift to one’s reality and the hardest to repair in preparation for reconstruction.

I would agree. It makes you doubt a lot. I think for me, the biggest part is the part of me that thinks what if everything was a lie the entire time. It probably wasn’t , but it’s hard. It makes you start doubting your self worth and start peering into yourself with more attention than you would have in the past. Every little detail about your self.

Stuff your spouse, friends and strangers probably never looked at. But now you’re looking at it cause you doubt your worth. At least that’s how I’ve experienced it.

Vankrant1993,

But now you’re looking at it cause you doubt your worth.

You said in one line what it took me four paragraphs to explain. The doubt in oneself often is greater than the doubt a betrayed now has in their wayward partner. It is far too easy to absorb the blame.

I agree that self-doubt is probably a universal response, except for narcissists and the like.

A lot of good can come from that self-doubt, though. I realized on d-day that I was a top-notch H, especially for my W. During recovery, I got answers to questions I never really had answered before. What do I want? What do I like? What do I like to avoid? What do I want in my M that is measurable? How do I maximize joy in my life?

Those questions were empowering and freeing. The answers may not have maximized my joy, but I enjoy life a lot more than I ever did before. (Of course, retirement helps - but that also means getting older and less capable.)

As I approach my first dday anniversary, I’m reminded of how far I’ve come back already.

I’m sleeping over 7 hours a night. My health app says I have the biological age of a 28 year old man (chronologically I’m 52), and mentally I feel like I’m on the right track (moving slowly towards a divorce).

But the self doubt is still strong, and unlikely to improve much in the near future.

Who is this person I married? I thought I knew.

And who am I? I thought I knew that too. In fact, I was sure that the reason my wife would never cheat was because of who we both were. I was obviously wrong.

I now wonder if I will ever trust anyone the way I did my WW. It doesn’t feel like I will.

And I guess for me, that’s the fractured part. The person I thought I was, versus the person I think I am now. So much change, but also so much confusion, as it’s impossible to know what was real.

[This message edited by 4characters at 5:52 PM, Tuesday, October 7th]

Sisson

A lot of good can come from that self-doubt, though. I realized on d-day that I was a top-notch H, especially for my W. During recovery, I got answers to questions I never really had answered before. What do I want? What do I like? What do I like to avoid? What do I want in my M that is measurable? How do I maximize joy in my life?

Though not on D-day, I also concluded that "I was a top-notch H" just much later, much, much later. Honestly, I, for far too long, felt like I must have been a terrible husband. I was so terrible that I didn’t even know my wife was deeply unhappy. I still struggle with the idea that I was blinded by my happiness that I didn’t see she was in a different place.

It is refreshing to hear that you found some good from all of this. In one of my very 1st post I made a similar statement and got kind-of hammered for saying that I was a better man after finding my way through the affair. (A more empathetic man.) I was brand new here and a bit raw and low on confidence and stopped replying to my post for a bit. After a while I realized that I was not being attacked and that people here, whether I agreed with their suggestions or not, had my welfare at heart. And you guys having my back is far more important than if I agree or not.

Those questions were empowering and freeing. The answers may not have maximized my joy, but I enjoy life a lot more than I ever did before. (Of course, retirement helps - but that also means getting older and less capable.)

I’ve been retired for nearly a decade and would like to add getting older does make us less capable in some areas and I’d argue more capable in others. I can see that increased capability in what you write.

Asterisk

4characters,

And who am I? I thought I knew that too. In fact, I was sure that the reason my wife would never cheat was because of who we both were. I was obviously wrong.

I thought the same thing. I had no doubt that my wife and I would never find ourselves in this place. To be frank, my wayward wife has stated the same thing. She was stunned and humiliated that she suspended her personal moral beliefs. I (and she) "was obviously wrong".

I now wonder if I will ever trust anyone the way I did my WW. It doesn’t feel like I will.

My wife and I have been in a reconciliation state for over 32 years and I do trust her but not in the same way. I will never again discount my instincts giving blind deference to another human being. That doesn’t mean I won’t be willing to have my instincts challenged but I will rely of "facts" given not "trust me" given.

...it’s impossible to know what was real.

That line hits it on the head! I now live in a state where I am fully aware that there is no way I will ever truly know another’s heart, mind or beliefs. It is hard enough just keeping my self-understanding in a place of non-confusion.

Asterisk

I now live in a state where I am fully aware that there is no way I will ever truly know another’s heart, mind or beliefs. It is hard enough just keeping my self-understanding in a place of non-confusion.

This^^^

Asterisk-

I definitely had to do a full on self-reset after infidelity.

I think you describe the devastation and the shock and awe of those early days rather well.

As Sisoon noted, I utilized the time to question everything as an opportunity to build my life back the way I wanted it.

In my case, after I realized my wife’s horrible choices had nothing to do with my value, the road back was easier to find.

After figuring out what I wanted and needed to get some joy back into existence, then I had the strength to offer my wife grace, and a chance for her to find her value again too.

I’m still a bit amazed R is the path I took. I’m even more amazed at the state of my M now. I sure would have preferred any other possible way to rebuild and strengthen my relationship, but it sure is stronger and better than ever.

I now live in a state where I am fully aware that there is no way I will ever truly know another’s heart, mind or beliefs. It is hard enough just keeping my self-understanding in a place of non-confusion.

Philosophically or psychologically — this has always been true. It is a tough way to learn it by way of infidelity, but it is definitely a reminder that we all enter this world essentially alone, and depart the same way.

A line from a JRR Tolkien book, which seems to be a strategy offered by the Stoic philosophers, "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

I decided to find as much joy as is possible in a world where it can be hard to find.

Some of the fragmentation of me at the time of discovery was another reminder, that control in life is an illusion, the only person I can control is me and my response to adversity.

Infidelity is quite the adversity and one I never anticipated.

It did make me realize how emotionally strong I am, and how much I can overcome.

My healing included the discovery (or rediscovery) that I was always awesome and will be awesome with or without my M — I find comfort in that. The upside is I am learning there is room for self-improvement, despite the current level of awesome.

I hope you continue to heal Asterisk.

I’m beginning to wonder maybe it is not the individual, sordid details of the affair but the fragmentation of oneself due to the adultery that causes the deepest, widest rift to one’s reality and the hardest to repair in preparation for reconstruction.

I've been something of an armchair philosopher for most of my adult life. One thing I've learned, and find incontrovertible, is that human beings need a philosophy. How we define our morals and values, how we construct social obligations and norms, how we build relationships, how we navigate through an ever changing and often confusing world, is all based upon the philosophical frameworks we create for ourselves. It effects everything we do in life, whether we are aware of it or not, shaping, along the way, our sense of self and our reality.

Surviving infidelity forces us to delve deep into our philosophical views, crafted over a lifetime of experiences, in ways that are often wholly unfamiliar to us. We find out, for better or worse, just how deep the rabbit whole goes.

While recovering, we have to integrate this trauma and any lessons learned into this philosophical framework, which certainty isn't easy, usually requires some help, and can take years to accomplish.

The entire process of recovery and healing is also an opportunity for personal growth, of adapting our philosophy to our new reality.

And brother, I've had the privilege of witnessing some truly inspiring tales of people who have survived infidelity and grown into stronger, wiser, happier, and more confident versions of themselves.

Trumanworld,

This old dude had to ask AI what This^^^ meant. 😊 Thank you for noticing and giving me such your strong voice of support. And for enlighten me on a new slang text.

Asterisk

Oldwounds,

I always give great consideration to your thoughts. You, like myself, chose reconciliation over divorce. In my view, both are difficult and equally legitimate options for a betrayed spouse. Though I find wisdom from those who have chosen divorce I am particularly anxious to hear from those who are finding success in the reconciliation process.

I am not a huge fan of the Stoic philosophy way to view my place in the world. Like nearly all philosophical points of view there is wisdom to be gleaned but also there are thoughts that do not reflect my personal values.

I do agree with you when you say that your wife’s infidelity was not a statement of your actual value as a human being. I would agree, but it took me a long time to come to that conclusion. What stings is that her infidelity was a statement of the value (at the time) she had of me. It is not a right or wrong thing to place a person’s value so low that one does not concern themselves of the possibility of losing that person’s connection. We all do that to one degree or another. But to have the person you value more than anyone on earth, even more than oneself (My diversion away from Stoicism) and states that they love you, really strikes at one’s sense of value in the eyes of your spouse and then extends to all others. That is a difficult circle to square.

Thank you Oldwounds, for your support of my healing process and I hope I can be someday a support to yours as well.

Asterisk

Unhinged,

I've been something of an armchair philosopher for most of my adult life. One thing I've learned, and find incontrovertible, is that human beings need a philosophy. How we define our morals and values, how we construct social obligations and norms, how we build relationships, how we navigate through an ever changing and often confusing world, is all based upon the philosophical frameworks we create for ourselves. It effects everything we do in life, whether we are aware of it or not, shaping, along the way, our sense of self and our reality.

I couldn’t agree more! But I really appreciated the next paragraph:

Surviving infidelity forces us to delve deep into our philosophical views, crafted over a lifetime of experiences, in ways that are often wholly unfamiliar to us.

What infidelity brought me face to face with is that I held philosophical/religious views that were not crafted from my experiences rather they were hand-me-down understandings from others that my life experiences were proving to not be serving me, nor my wife, well. If I’m fully transparent, (and I know this is risky) if my wife’s infidelity is what it took to unbind my mind from previously held thoughts and dogmas, then I welcome it. (kind of sounds a tad bit Stoic)

And I’ve said to you many times and mean it from the bottom of my heart, thank you Unhinged for your wisdom and support.
Asterisk

I thought the same thing. I had no doubt that my wife and I would never find ourselves in this place. To be frank, my wayward wife has stated the same thing. She was stunned and humiliated that she suspended her personal moral beliefs. I (and she) "was obviously wrong".

This is what I thought as well. It wasn't something either of us thought was possible. But clearly it is.

My wife and I have been in a reconciliation state for over 32 years and I do trust her but not in the same way. I will never again discount my instincts giving blind deference to another human being. That doesn’t mean I won’t be willing to have my instincts challenged but I will rely of "facts" given not "trust me" given.

When we began reconciliation, I made it very clear that the blind trust I once had for her and only her was never going to come back. And I think that hurt her and drove home to her how badly she screwed up. Because she knew how I little I trust people (Friends, Family, etc..) and how very very few I let in my inner circle. So she grasped what she had now lost. We're only 15 months in R, but trust is growing here and there, but overall it will never amass to what it used to be. And even if I picked divorce, the blind trust will never exist again. And, honestly I think thats a good thing in a way. Such trust should never truly exist.

That line hits it on the head! I now live in a state where I am fully aware that there is no way I will ever truly know another’s heart, mind or beliefs. It is hard enough just keeping my self-understanding in a place of non-confusion.

I understand way too much. And I know I struggle with this a lot now. I will never truly ever know another's heart , mind or belief with entire confidence. I don't know about you, but at least for me at this point. I don't entirely "feel" my wifes heart, mind or beliefs as I once did before. I do recall, before all this. I could look at her and just know what she was feeling in all those categories. But I've not felt that since D-DAY. Not sure if that changes with longer time in R.

I think cheating is a type of hurt that is unquestionably one of the worst things a human being can do to another human being. Its a type of injury that can be reopened by the simplest things and only a very few can truly understand the ongoing pain. I would never want anyone to feel what any of us have felt or are feeling.

Hello Vikrant1993,

When we began reconciliation, I made it very clear that the blind trust I once had for her and only her was never going to come back. And I think that hurt her and drove home to her how badly she screwed up.

What you stated above mirrors my words and my wife’s sadness at the perminacy of the loss of "blind trust". She has worked hard at rebuilding trust and I do see her as extremely trustworthy. That said, I know and she knows, that the trust is a different, less naive type of trust. It is based (when I’m self-centered) on current actions, not on past or future actions.

I understand way too much. And I know I struggle with this a lot now.

Early in the reconciling process, I struggled with knowing too much. Overtime I began to understand that I really only knew the surface of the whys. In reality I knew way too little about my wife and her struggles pre and post her affair. Once I allowed myself to set aside the humiliation and pain and to listen, truly listen, is when reconciliation had a chance to succeed. But even now, 52 years post wedding day, I learn more and am often surprised by new things I learn about my wife and her thinking.

I think cheating is a type of hurt that is unquestionably one of the worst things a human being can do to another human being. Its a type of injury that can be reopened by the simplest things and only a very few can truly understand the ongoing pain

Again, you have reflected my situation with a near identical view. This is why I always refer to my wife and my reconciliation as "ongoing". In the past, when I would feel completely at rest with her infidelity, I would think we were fully reconciled. Then something would happen, a move script, a song, a location, or simply a new thought would derail me. For instance, I thought I was fully mentally in a place of acceptance and resolved for it had been somewhere around 10 years sense the last time I struggled or had a meltdown. Then, out of the blue, a health scare, caused me to reflect on my pasts and losses, and I entered a short time of being in an angry place. I knew it wasn’t fair, so I tried to suppress it but that in of itself was problematic. That is why I turned to here, so I could vent or expose my situation, feelings and thoughts, without injuring my wife in my current state of pain.

I would never want anyone to feel what any of us have felt or are feeling.

Agreed, I wouldn't either. I'll add that I wouldn't want any waywards who are attempting to honestly remake themselves to "feel" what I suspect many probable feel, either.

Asterisk

Asterisk,

I do agree with you when you say that your wife’s infidelity was not a statement of your actual value as a human being. I would agree, but it took me a long time to come to that conclusion. What stings is that her infidelity was a statement of the value (at the time) she had of me. It is not a right or wrong thing to place a person’s value so low that one does not concern themselves of the possibility of losing that person’s connection. We all do that to one degree or another. But to have the person you value more than anyone on earth, even more than oneself (My diversion away from Stoicism) and states that they love you, really strikes at one’s sense of value in the eyes of your spouse and then extends to all others. That is a difficult circle to square.

The Stoics are cool, and I love what they bring to self-improvement and empowerment, and attacking the few things we can actually control in life -- but I've not found ALL the answers in any one philosophy, or even my faith. I think if there were some perfect answers out there, we wouldn't need psychologists or Internet message boards.

I also admire Daoism and the way they allow life to come to them, regardless of the pain or circumstances that come with it.

Interesting side note, your dday listed is the year my wife's LTA started. My dday was much later, as my wife was going to take the secret to the literal grave, before she reconsidered and confessed about a decade ago.

That said, I hope your recent and powerful moments of introspection, some of which you have bravely shared here with us (I am still not used to the idea of telling a group of strangers about my deepest pain, even after years and a few thousand messages) are helping you find a path to peace.

While I agree with the Stoics somewhat, in that we shouldn't give too much of our value to anyone else -- I don't know if they allowed for the romantic elements of modern marriage. After all, marrying someone for love is still comparatively new in the grand scheme of human history.

As to your value "in the eyes of your spouse" -- I understand how and why it hits us the way it does, but after some of my own work -- none of my wife's choices were ever about MY value.

My wife's coping mechanisms, her own sense of herself, her family/childhood issues, her failure of her own values, how she turned away from the relationship instead of toward the relationship, that was her path to infidelity.

I had nothing at all to do with her choices.

We become invisible to the person we love and trust the most, which is horribly painful, and yet, it has nothing at all to do with us. That's why R is so uphill and so difficult. The paradox is, it is the most personal betrayal possible without it being about us personally.

We are collateral damage. We all understand how much damage too, that's how we found this place.

It's not that my wife didn't value me, she couldn't see me.

If she could have seen me or included me on her selfish path, she couldn't have participated in the fantasy with the other person.

Infidelity is a level of compartmentalization that is hard to comprehend, if we haven't made similar choices in life. The biggest part of the fantasy is ditching all worldly responsibilities, including us and our value.

I can't know all the work you have done to heal or the work your wife has done to make you feel valued once again.

But I understand if you haven't processed all of your anger and pain yet, you have come to right place.

You mentioned some of your anger years later as being unfair to your current M. I disagree.

Your anger is a righteous anger and if you haven't processed it all, that's unfair to you. We cannot bury pain or anger. We can try, but I know, based on my own life, it does not work.

Feel the anger, share it, process it.

If your wife doesn't fully understand how painful it was to be invisible, it is totally fair to share that with her now in order for you to fully heal, or at least heal some more.

My healing really started once I understood my wife's shitty choices do not reflect on me at all in any way.

I have found value is kind of the key to health and happiness.

My wife didn't value herself, once she learned to do that, she became a far better person and much better partner.

Our R didn't progress until I understood her A had nothing to do with my value.

And once I had my swagger back, I knew I would be good with or without my M. That individual recovery, the feeling good about me, is when the M began again. The early years of R weren't really R, they were about the two of us learning to value ourselves, which worked toward a healthier love for each other.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 5:23 PM, Friday, October 10th]

What stings is that her infidelity was a statement of the value (at the time) she had of me.

The value she placed on you or on herself? Just asking. The low value my W placed on herself was a major enabler of her decision to cheat.

This is why I always refer to my wife and my reconciliation as "ongoing". In the past, when I would feel completely at rest with her infidelity, I would think we were fully reconciled.

In some ways R is a 'project'. In at least this aspect it's not. Projects have begin and end dates. R, IMO, morphs into M, and I do not like contemplating the end date. R builds/rebuilds bonds, and M maintains them, but at a not very high level of abstractions, the activities are the same - getting reconnected every day, identifying and resolving issues, deciding on the next steps, etc., etc., etc.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:46 PM, Friday, October 10th]

Recently my wife and I had a problem and without going into great detail she gave me an explanation and I said that makes zero sense and she said just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not true and even though you may not understand an explanation I give you you have to accept it and believe me and I said nope

I said if something does not make sense to me I will ask questions and if I still do not understand then I will turn to other resources in hopes of understanding but no, I will not accept an explanation based on blind trust

To me, doing so opens up the door for BS excuses for bad behavior. Why are you so late getting home from work? I had to stay and finish up some stuff. Such as? Just stuff. Well, you never had to stay late before and the tasks that need to be completed at the end of a shift are the same every time, therefore I need to know why you're so late getting home. This is just an example I made up on the fly

Trust yet verify, truer words have never been spoken. I know I will never give her the same level of trust again, I just can't, that ability has been permanently destroyed. I am convinced that I will forever be much more aware of how she acts and how she dresses and who she interacts with.