SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Must be another dreadful Monday.
I started getting anxiety attacks and my heart was racing thinking "I have to know the answer to this question".

The moment my daughter went to her room I asked him on average how many times he slept with her when he saw her. He answered me and said usually only once. I told him immediately I felt nauseous. He said "what was important to you about that?" didn’t have an answer other than "I can lay that to rest now if you didn’t do it , I wouldn’t have to be here asking"

I blocked that question this whole time because I don’t think I wanted to know the answer but it was gnawing at me until I just spit it out.
Of course he slept with her more than once on ocassions, why does it matter? Because my pride is hurt , I feel like I’m nothing so why keep asking? I guess to keep myself in the dirt.

He said he understood my need to know it and I told him to leave me alone. He’s out skateboarding with our daughter and I’m in the bathroom on the verge of throwing up.

What questions did you all not want to know and how did you tell yourself they weren’t important?
I know how many times they had sex will only huet me and will not lead me down the path of healing.
Gosh damn stupid brain.

I want to know what the fuck she was thinking - really when she came home at night and laid next to me, or ate the meal I cooked. I want to know how she was dressed. I know both times they fucked in between their cars in the parking lot - what a knight in shinning armor! Did she purposely wear a dress to make it easier to get nailed! But I know they won't help. I also want to ask why she has FB pages/quotes that relate to her OM saved under "food" in her saved pages. I think I'm going to sit on this one and see if she adds anymore.

There were shitty details that I just couldn’t let go not knowing, and while they are disgusting I’m glad I know honestly and they aren’t a constant gnawing at me. Shit like how he finished. It’s so awful, revolting, putrid, but that was the reality my wife chose and thrust into my life (no pun intended ). I’m glad I know, I think it’s better for me in the long run.

InkHulk:

There were shitty details that I just couldn’t let go not knowing, and while they are disgusting I’m glad I know honestly and they aren’t a constant gnawing at me. Shit like how he finished. It’s so awful, revolting, putrid, but that was the reality my wife chose and thrust into my life (no pun intended blink ). I’m glad I know, I think it’s better for me in the long run.

I didn't ask - when it happened - porn was magazines and "home movie" grade films. And I knew the birds&bees stuff so what was I to add that I really needed to know that was not common knowledge? To me, the "Did you"? was the only question that mattered.
Anything more was just an added dash of salt to the cut.

For some, whatever or however our brains work, we need to hear the answer to our questions. Better to ask (I think) and eliminate the wandering (mind movie?) - so we can put the thought into a cubbyhole somewhere in our memory.

The only other thing was the euphemism "slept with" - when to me the absolute phrase that fits is copulate, fornicate, or a more corse word so common now. "Slept with" is just annoying - like trying to coat something with whipped cream to make it go down better. Nah, no sleeping involved.

Groot1988

I know how that answer hurt - still.

Sorry for all of us having "picked a winner" - always asking myself - if "we" have a problem - how is bringing another person in to YOUR life helping US?

I don't think anyone ever gets a decent answer to that question.

I am so so sorry you have to deal with this. It makes me nauseous just thinking about you thinking about it. And what Ink said…ouch. There have been a few questions I have been able to stop myself from asking…but in general who has that kind of self control? Particularly at the most vulnerable time in your life. Remember you are awesome and screw him.

I’m sure you already realize this but just sayin…

this is NOT on you

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 2:49 AM, Tuesday, May 21st]

God, I feel for you Groot. Each time I read the things you write, the pain just pours through the words and having experienced it myself, I empathize with you greatly. I've been there and at times still am there. I'm so sorry you've been put through this.

I think you hit it on the head with why you keep asking these questions, to keep yourself in the dirt. Your brain is traumatized and protecting you, and more important that keeping yourself in the dirt, some part of you (and me) wants our spouse to keep knocking us in the dirt. I've noticed that if I start to trust her even a microscopic amount, then I pain shop. That way she can stay the monster she's been, and a monster can't hurt me. I won't let that monster get close enough to my soul, behind my armor to hurt me. When she's that monster in my eyes and I'm viewing her through that lens, she could literally blow AP right in front of me and I feel nothing at all other than seeing this monster I used to love acting like a monster. But if I see her as trying, if I see her as reforming and apologetic and wanting to be the wife I fell in love with so many years ago, then the mere thought of her holding his hand destroys me. It's vulnerable. That's why I ask the questions and why my brain keeps searching for things to cling to, because it's safe. If she's the monster, whatever she's doing with whomever is just some woman I used to love doing things that don't really affect me anymore. That's the true challenge of reconciliation, I have come to believe. It's letting down that armor enough that you're vulnerable to that person who's proven capable of being a cruel monster. And that truly may be a terrible move. They may still be that monster. No one can answer that with certainty. But it's really the only way to rebuild a marriage out of these ashes of ruin they created. I wouldn't rush into that. They have to earn that, though I'm not sure what that looks like or how that can happen or when the time may be right.

Early on I asked every question. Almost every one hurt me because they were together for nearly 3 years, plus other side AP's in addition to the primary. Since then I really don't ask much anymore. And I honestly can't remember what the questions were. They popped into my head, I "HAD TO KNOW" because they were all consuming in that moment, and I just didn't ask. And they left. And now I don't even remember what was so all consuming in the moment. A big one for me that I think did matter was if he'd ever seen her fully nude. Weird question given all the things they've done, but I know it took a while before she was confident/comfortable enough to allow me to see her fully nude just walking around the bedroom or whatever in the light of day. And that is a huge thing to me, as I adored and still adore her body and the beauty I see in her body like that. They had so much car sex/ outside sex that most all of it as far as I know was the classic lifting a skirt or just nude from the waist down or whatever the case may be. It mattered to me for some strange reason that THAT image was still mine, for my eyes only (even though he'd experienced everything about her). I still don't really have clarity on that one. She says no, but they did once go out of town and get a hotel together. Hard for me to believe they didn't walk around nude, have a chance to fully enjoy a bed, and all the things you'd do in a hotel with a lover. But then again, she has always struggled with body image and maybe she didn't. I'll never know for sure, but I have the choice to either believe her and hold that as a thing I can have only to myself, or I can not and keep myself in the dirt. And either way, it really doesn't change much as to where I stand today.

Sending brotherly love your way Groot. Your pain just bleeds through your words, and I'm so sorry. You deserved better than this, and I sincerely believe one day you'll have it, either with WH or with someone new. Hang in there. Take care of yourself and your babies.

Still confused. I saw your message before you edited (sorry not sorry)

Spot freaking on.
We have four kids. Three in diapers , and one special needs. I hate him for ever jeopardizing a freaking thing for my perfect babies and HIS perfect babies. He admitted through tears at one point his life and hobbies were more important than ours.

You’re so right. This is a him problem , not a me problem and he doesn’t deserve me or these kids he created when he did what he did. I am trying to accept he is human and makes mistakes and was in a very dark place himself. I just wish the thoughts would stop. I need to find peace.

I told him that I know I could walk out the door and even with four kids later down the road find someone to love us all , and I could. I wish his answers didn’t matter so much to me. Knife to the heart.

Marine

I have so many words to your reply and I’ll send them tomorrow , you literally just made me cry (in a good way) thank you.

I have a lot a lot more peace now. I don’t know if that helps…

I directed a lot of the rage at the OW for a long long time. It was just too big to direct at the man I loved. Now that it is at a more manageable size I can direct it more at my husband, and still love him as very broken person who did a horrible horrible thing.

It’s funny you say that about the kids. That resonates with me. He has been talking about telling our girls. I wrote out for him what I would say to them about it if he ever told them. It was basically that he was delusional and did not believe he would cause them permanent lifelong harm. And that it should have been patently obvious to him, all he had to do was look around him. And that as a mother I would forever hold deep anger and resentment toward him-as I would anyone who harmed my children. He read it and lost his mind. It was so weird because I don’t see how this could be a surprise. I mean duh..of course I kinda want to kill you. You harmed my children and the people you were placed on this earth to protect. He said if I read that to them it would permanently destroy their relationship. I was like duh, what did you think would happen? It really is baffling to me.

I wish you the best. I hope he proves his worth to you and your kids. Hugs

(I deleted my example because I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. glad you understood my point.)

Still confused exactly!!

The last thing I will ever be able to forgive is what he could or can still take away from our children. He could have altered their life and taken away everything from them. Oh my God. My 7 year old is special needs and ANY change in schedule literally breaks her down. She’s been out of school for 2 days and she hasn’t stopped crying. How could he ever hurt her more! Freaking beyond me. He thought of no one but his self and it makes me so sick. I mean , not thinking of me? Ok horrible! Not thinking of his kids? Almost a deal breaker. They cried at the door when he would leave to go see his AP and he wouldn’t turn back to even give a shit. Funny thing that helps me smile through all of this bull shit is I would ask him change their shitty diapers before he left to "work" on Mondays after I clocked out. He NEVER would wash his hands after because he was in such a "rush to make money". My kids are like wrestling an alligator when they get changed and he never got away without shit somewhere on him. I hope they shared food together, better yet I hope he fed her , at the least i hope she knows he touched her with shit all over his hands at some point because in reality she meant THAT LITTLE. Call me petty Betty.

I also point a lot of things at the OW and as time goes on , that is starting to ease up. I hope I get to a point where you are and I hope he continues his work on being a better H and father.

Thankyou for taking time to respond.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 3:27 AM, Tuesday, May 21st]

I’ll just say that I waiting a LONG time before asking that, it was at the very end of my question asking phase, so like 15 months. It still bothered me after that long. I got my answer, it was awful, and I was at peace with it quickly afterward and still am. That was my experience.
I do remember well the obsessive nature of questions early on post d-day. I don’t know whether it’s a good thing or not, I probably trust that it’s a universal reflex so our betrayed minds must be asking for something it needs. Whatever it is, it’s not a flaw in you to feel what you feel. It is what a human does when intimately betrayed, we all did it.

For me it’s not so much the questions I didn’t want to know … but one of the questions I’ve asked a million times over - "What was your end game in all of this." Apparently, you were never leaving me, your children, your family … all you wanted was for our marriage to work because you love me so much and can’t imagine life without me How was having an A going to allow you to keep your family intact and make our marriage better?! Fucking blows my mind. Sorry you’re having a rough go, I know Monday’s are a tough one for you. Sending hugs.

Heartbroken -

That is still the #1 question I can't get her to answer! "What was your endgame?" I asked if it was to push me away, to make me file for D because she didn't have the guts or didn't want to ruin her "perfect woman" image. I also asked what the status of their relationship really was at the time of DDay. She won't answer that too.

Heartbrokenwife/ Brennan

Those were always big questions for me too and if I didn't get them early enough on I think I would have already been gone (not that I didn't have other huge reasons to leave)

I think I asked for 5 months if he was going to leave me and the kids and what he was hoping to accomplish, hell I still do. My biggest fear was that he would tell me that he was going to leave us and go be with her, support her and her kids but leave ours.
That was never his endgame result, his endgame result was to walk away from the A and her without me knowing , come back feeling more alive, wanted, desired, and happy.... and if needed go do it again, Well none of those happened, he came back feeling the lowest ever after Dday and hit rock bottom. He was a cake eater. The A was his drug of choice to help numb the pain of his every day life (not making enough money, child hood issues, lack of communication). I am at the point now I do believe he never spoke bad of the kids and I, never told her he would leave us but did string her along with a lot of "I love yous" and shift of conversation away from us. When she wanted things to go deeper because, hell he baited tf out of her that is when it went to shit. Do I think in his mind he justified his affair and probably made the kids and I out to be the problem so he could continue his A? Absofreakinglutely, I pointed that out to him last night when we were talking about the A. He admitted that the kids and I became the punching bag so to speak for all of his anger / resentment and instead of handling those issues he ran like a b**** (His words not mine). 76

My H still has ways to go in keeping these changes permanent and he really has to work on his boundaries but he has done a lot of internal work on himself.

I am sorry Brennan that you have these answers yet.... that question should have been one of the first ones told to you. Seems she needs to be doing a little more internal digging, if they don't know what their intended end game result was then how can they work towards never doing it again and also healing from it? She definitely isn't someone I would consider working towards being a safe partner, I am sorry if that comes of harsh but I know what trickle truth feels like and I know your pain. I hope she starts to see the light and comes around and gives you what you need.

heartbrokenwife

Sorry you’re having a rough go, I know Monday’s are a tough one for you. Sending hugs.

Thank you! Mondays can go to hell at this point

I will never understand the logic of a cheater because there really is none. I have tried to wrap my brain around his thoughts so many times and I can't. Do I know his whys, yes. Do I get how he could twist reality and jeopardize so much that now all the sudden MEANS EVERYTHING to him, no. I keep asking stupid details though and I am pretty sure that Marine below hit it on the head for me and what I am doing. I cried in bed last night and told my H I think that I keep asking questions to keep him at arms length for self protection and he held me and told me he thinks I am right and he gets it. He told me it won't be like this forever but of course he would wait for me and answer all questions I had. I loved him so much in that moment but hated him at the same time because if he wasn't a coward and stepped out on us I wouldn't be asking the questions to begin with.

Ink

I’ll just say that I waiting a LONG time before asking that, it was at the very end of my question asking phase, so like 15 months. It still bothered me after that long. I got my answer, it was awful, and I was at peace with it quickly afterward and still am. That was my experience.

Each day I get closer to eliminating questions that do not matter, I am proud of that. At the beginning, I asked everything. Who, where, what , why , when. Did she dress up for him? Did they do anything we didn't? Did they go to movies? I mean things that I think I really did NEED the answer to in order to R. I know it sounds odd but to me the fact they ate and had sex, is better than if they laid in bed, watched movies, went to concerts, held hands while shopping. That to me shows feelings, what he did was use her and she used him. That is just in my opinion and in my shitty situation. If they were more emotionally involved I don't think I could have reconciled. Hell it took him forever to admit he told her he loved her... when confronted about why he told me he was afraid she was getting jealous of seeing all of our posts and had to make her think he cared.

I mean regardless he was a monster, truly the darkest monster that I have ever seen. How you can be so selfish and uncaring ? Beats me but I also don't feel the least bit of pity for her, she chose to have an A with a married man. I think what really set her off and when the A started to die out was when she saw my fb post about our anniversary and so many more years we had ahead and posted our vacation pics, that is when my H tried to calm her and it fell apart because he didn't love her, hell I don't think he even loved himself or me then.

Anyways sorry, getting off topic. The questions I ask now mostly are repeat ones and the sexual, or small details that I know won't do me any good I am good at shoving off, at least for that day.
I know asking some questions would bring more triggers like "what kind of car she drove" Do I really need to know that? NO, he said he would tell me but then I would start picking them out while driving and he is right. I will not give her anymore power. I need to love myself enough to heal now, some days I fail at that and yesterday was one of them.

Marine

I could copy your entire reply to me in here and hit on everything you said.
Thank you for not making me feel alone, thank you for putting words to my feelings. You are right, I do believe I ask the questions because when I stop, when I let him know I KNOW he is making progress and working towards being a better H and father then I am left vulnerable. I wasn't good at being vulnerable before the A and now I wonder if I will ever learn to be. I have fleeting moments where I will let my walls down, I wont ask questions for 8 hours, then my spidey senses kick in and they say "No, you have to keep asking, there could be more, you can't let him think you forgot or are beginning to forgive." He has to stay the monster in my movie for a while because then I will stay safe, it allows me to keep him in that dark closet, far enough away where he won't hurt me again.

They had so much car sex/ outside sex that most all of it as far as I know was the classic lifting a skirt or just nude from the waist down or whatever the case may be. It mattered to me for some strange reason that THAT image was still mine, for my eyes only (even though he'd experienced everything about her). I still don't really have clarity on that one.

OH I feel you here! My H originally only admitted to car sex (claiming he didn't see much of her) then he admitted to sex in the woods (still not seeing too much) then he admitted to several hotel sex outings, which confirmed to me that he did.

I try not to let that bother me too much because she wasn't worth looking at and anyone who has seen her agrees. I try to not give her power there, she aint shit.
I can see why it would matter to you, that is something she saved only for you and i can relate to you on that because if my H would have had oral sex with her, I don't think I could have stayed. Stupid , I know but I was the only one he ever did it with , it is a trust thing for him because I mean... you don't know where other people have been , clearly. He did not and I believe that he didn't. Will I ever know, no? I still struggle with knowing he had sex with her in the light almost every time, whenever we have sex, out the light goes. I mean we have four kids and it usually has to be in the bed under covers but I feel like he enjoyed seeing her nude more than me? I brought that up to him because one time I lit a candle and he blew it out. He said he could see why I felt that way and he claimed he just did it because he wanted to make sure we didn't forget when we fell asleep but he had no good way to comfort me and my thoughts, he can't take back effing her in the sunlight? Maybe I need to reclaim something there... later on down the road.

They may still be that monster. No one can answer that with certainty. But it's really the only way to rebuild a marriage out of these ashes of ruin they created. I wouldn't rush into that. They have to earn that, though I'm not sure what that looks like or how that can happen or when the time may be right.

THIS. I agree wholeheartedly,I am waiting on his heart to fully change and then I think mine will follow suit, if he doesn't change then there isn't room for him in mine.

Sending brotherly love your way Groot. Your pain just bleeds through your words, and I'm so sorry. You deserved better than this, and I sincerely believe one day you'll have it, either with WH or with someone new. Hang in there. Take care of yourself and your babies.

Thank you Marine, I always enjoy your stories and advice (as shitty as they had to come about). I am doing my best over here and I know I will fall a lot more before I am able to get back up again, but I will get back up.

Each day I get closer to eliminating questions that do not matter, I am proud of that.

Absolutely, celebrate every small win you can, rebuild your taste for joy.

I know it sounds odd but to me the fact they ate and had sex, is better than if they laid in bed, watched movies, went to concerts, held hands while shopping. That to me shows feelings, what he did was use her and she used him. That is just in my opinion and in my shitty situation. If they were more emotionally involved I don't think I could have reconciled.

It sounded odd the first time I heard that, but I’ve heard it quite a few times now in my time here, so you are not alone in that at all. StillConfused said something almost identical to that a while back, if I remember correctly. Yeah, it’s now how I feel about things, but it is how you feel and that is all that matters. Trust yourself.

Regarding the risk of permanent mind movies and triggers if you find out details like what car she drove: my experience is no particular detail has stuck with me, even sexual details. Definitely had some nasty triggers and anxiety for a time, but they have tapered off for me. I am aware when I drive past the hotels they met at, but my stomach doesn’t drop anymore. I compare that the churning of the unsatisfied mind that wants details. That in itself is miserable. I gave my mind what it wanted, and I don’t regret it. It took a long time to do it, my wife resisted and lied for a long time, and that churning wouldn’t stop on some things. I had the practice of writing down my questions to get them out of my head. I’d go back and review my list, and if after a little time that question didn’t matter to me, I’d delete it. But if things continued to bug me, I held my ground to the right to know, even against MC recommendation.

This is hard stuff, and it’s not fair that we have to deal with it. Give yourself time and grace to find the path thru that works for you.

Completely normal. How can you know what you are being asked to forgive? They stole time and energy from you, it’s normal to want to try and know what happened with that time.

Look I asked about her pubic hair, I asked about duration, I definitely asked the ink question- I wanted to know how he finished because we always did all sorts of stuff but he had a distinct preference for the ending and I couldn’t keep imagining that and then allowing that routine to continue with me. I am pretty sure I would have tried to physically harm him had it been the case, but the answer in some ways was worse. Honest but worse.

I don’t know why our lizard brains have to process the painful stuff but I fell like if I know the worst of it they have no secrets together and I was hell bent all the time for these pressing answers that I needed. It will run its course. I think a year or a little longer seems average around here. Some need less time some need more but I say it because it might help to know this part will end.

You should of course talk to your therapist and decide what works best for you, because once you know something you can’t I know it. For me, knowing what I was dealing with was important, but I have also learned the pain is in those details and the more pain we can sit with and process, the more healing can occur. I just can’t say what is right for you, but knowing details helps me feel like I am empowered to make decisions based on the truth.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:19 PM, Tuesday, May 21st]

Hikingout.

Look I asked about her pubic hair

I almost asked this but decided I didn't want to know because what if they way we were landscaped were different and then I tried to be like her ... I don't want to change who I am. But trust me, I have wanted to ask.
I have also asked about duration.

I don’t know why our lizard brains have to process the painful stuff but I fell like if I know the worst of it they have no secrets together and I was hell bent all the time.

This is also why I feel I need to know certain things, I do not want any secrets between them, then I feel like the A is still going on, even if it isnt?

I know hotels they went to, restaurants, where they had sex, dates they had sex, compliments they gave each other, sex positions because hell he did them all, what they talked about. I just feel like if I allowed myself to dig and dig I would never stop digging, there would always be another detail I needed to know that like you said I can't unhear. I feel power in the sense that I hear the details and then on the flipside I feel power knowing they don't mean a damn thing, if that makes sense?

Ink

Regarding the risk of permanent mind movies and triggers if you find out details like what car she drove: my experience is no particular detail has stuck with me, even sexual details. Definitely had some nasty triggers and anxiety for a time, but they have tapered off for me. I am aware when I drive past the hotels they met at, but my stomach doesn’t drop anymore.

I can't wait till I am there, I take long ways to avoid a hotel he took her too and then the other hotel, we just avoid the complete city. my stomach drops seeing the sign from the freeway.. so I have a long time to go before that gets better.

I think it has also helped me in an odd way talking to my H and him telling me he was broken, he made horrible decisions and he hated who he was , that what he did truly meant nothing to him but at the time it was an escape, it was how he coped. It helps me not hammer him with questions because at the end of the day she meant jack squat to him and he meant jacksquat to her, she never called him crying after he dropped her.. she didn't care and he never tried to contact her either. He quit his job and never looked back.
I keep trying to tell myself that who he was then, what they did together was nothing, made up fantasy BS that ruined so many things. The more he is empathetic, remorseful, and honest about his feelings I feel the less I need to ask. It is on my days where I feel like letting those walls down that the questions flood me.

Sorry, I am word vomiting here in circles.

Hippo

I know how that answer hurt - still.

Sorry for all of us having "picked a winner" - always asking myself - if "we" have a problem - how is bringing another person in to YOUR life helping US?

I don't think anyone ever gets a decent answer to that question.

You are right, the answers always hurt and I actually laughed at "picking a winner" , my twisted sense of humor kicked in.