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My daughter is getting married and surprise, surprise, the costs of the wedding continues to escalate. This has been a giant negotiation from the start. Initially my EX and she convinced my daughter that the woman I have been with for a few years should not attend. Hard no from me. Then it was where she sat. They wanted her at a peripheral table with non family. Again hard no. She sits with me. I did agree that she wouldn’t be in any of the formal family pictures, but that was it. So bottom line I have been on the defensive from the start.

Now the issue as I stated is costs. The original band broke up, so we found a new, and I agree a better one, but at almost double the cost. The room expanded so we have that cost, as well as a bigger flower bill. And the after party has also been changed and enhanced. Nothing frankly I didn’t expect.

What I didn’t expect is that when my EX and I agreed to split the costs, she now doesn’t want to pay up on the over runs. When we divorced we split things 50/50. She had not worked for 20 years, but I knew my success was only made possible by her hard work at home, so I didn’t fight anything. However our finances were quite complicated. Some of our portfolio was easily evaluated like stocks and bonds. Others were harder such as limited partnerships and other more complicated financial instruments. She insisted on getting the stocks and such that were easier to sell, while I opted for the others. Turned out mine have grown more than hers, and she did some stupid things like selling during the Covid downturn. I listened to our financial advisor and she didn’t. Her portfolio is still robust, just not nearly what mine is. The thing is she created that.

Now with these overruns, she feels I should pay the bulk of it "because I have more". I do, but she still has the means to pay theses overruns and it will not crimp her in anyway. It’s not much in the long run for either of us, but we both have dug in on principle.

Am I wrong here? When you agree to pay 50/50 that should be it. I’m disgusted by the whole thing

So, here is my thought.

You were right to include your girlfriend. It’s appropriate to leave her out of the formal pics. All that sounds fine. She is your date and should sit with you. That’s crazy.

This might be controversial, but if I agreed to give X dollars to one of my kids for their wedding then I expect that to be my cost.

It’s great you guys can afford to throw the wedding but I don’t think it’s fair for there to be overruns. We gave our daughters a dollar amount and if they wanted a nicer wedding they paid the rest. And that’s what they did. We put them through college with no loans for them to pay.

Its fair for her to say what she can afford.

However if she is helping planning and making these suggestions, I would tell her that if she says more things to run the cost up, she is going to be on the hook for those things 100. It’s not fair for her to push for better if she isn’t going to pay for better.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:29 AM, Sunday, March 24th]

I agree with hiking. The way you've handled the girlfriend situation is perfect.

Tell your daughter you will give her X amount of dollars,and anything over that,she and her husband can pay for. If you don't, the expenses will keep coming,and your ex is going to flake.

Thank you HO for the reply. I value your opinion, not only concerning infidelity issues, but you also on general life as well. You are a rational, thinking person, and appreciate your advice.

The thing is I figured things would escalate. I threw many big events in my business career and rarely did things come in at budget. If the overruns are reasonable, and make the event better, for the most part I’m ok with it. She really isn’t the one pushing, nor am I fighting about the costs. As big of a hard ass I can be, I’m really a soft touch. I’m an overtipper, I give money to almost anyone that asks for a charity donation, and am generous with my kids. I subscribe to the line in the decendents (great infidelity movie) that you if you have it, you give your kids enough money to do things, but not enough to do nothing. Both my daughter’s are pretty responsible with money. But at this point in my life I have it to spend, so I would rather they save for a house

The issue is with my EX feeling I should foot all the over runs. Just because I have more than her I shouldn’t pay more. If she didn’t have it, or I thought it was a burden for her I would pay, buts it’s not.

I also think this is partially about her trying to exert some control over me. Her life is crap, and I think this is her way of trying to drag me down. That’s not going to happen.

Hellfire, I’m almost at that point. But the overruns while not great, still are not going to mean much to me in the long run. But it might be time to shut it down

@waitedwaytoolong

I believe we are living very similar lives with a slight time difference. I'm taking copious notes as I have little doubt this shall be an issue I face in the future as well.

[This message edited by hardyfool at 4:53 AM, Sunday, March 24th]

I think you should have a conversation with the wedding couple. Here’s what I will pay - $ amount all in.

Give what you feel comfortable with - and make it known you want them to have the wedding of their dreams. But you have a budget and expect to contribute only X dollars.

I would avoid the Ex and who is responsible for what. I would tell the Ex (after you speak with the wedding couple) you are prepared to pay X. That’s it. Spend it however they see fit for the wedding.

That shuts down any future conversation with the Ex.

I would also tell the wedding couple about your date being present and where the date will sit and you have agreed to not have your date in formal family photos.

Stop allowing the Ex to control the situation. Which clearly she expects to do.

This is going to be bordering on off topic, but you did ask what’s "fair"…

I think we need to stop this stupidity of having a young couple start life by having a celebration that probably costs more than the down-payment of their first home, and this arcane tradition of the parents of the bride pay what is basically a dowry to get her off their hands…
A week after spending someone’s elses money in a 300 square foot suite in some exotic hotel (where a newly married couple basically only need a bed) they come back to reality in their single-bedroom rental with their fledging careers and their $$$$$ student-loans…

I second The1stWife that you give the couple a budget and have them fit their plans in that budget.
Personally – I would suggest they spend as little as they can off that budget for the actual wedding, and use as much as possible for the down-payment of their first home.

Just to back this up: When I got married my wife and I did most of the preparation work for the three course meal for 60 and had a cook-friend do the final cooking and serving, siblings of her best friends and younger relatives did the serve-work, the party was in a Rotary-lodge my dad got for free and our closest friends cleaned up after waving us off. Didn’t expect my dad to pay a dime, but he surprised us by paying for the wine and booze.

I can understand what you are saying, waited. I am generous with my kids as well. If I had it, they have always gotten it.

However, you and your ex are no longer married. I don’t think it’s controlling that she says how much she is willing to spend.

Yes, she was being overly controlling about your date/significant other. So I can understand how that part was controlling.

The part that is hard for me to understand is why she knows how much you have or if you really know how much she has left. If she is less responsible with money the way that you imply, she could have spent down what she once had and isn’t saying because she wants to save face.

It might also help to know, my older daughters are my step daughters. So in that way we too are a divorced parent situation. So we said we would contribute X dollars to the weddings but our agreement and relationship was with our daughters. As far as I know the only thing H’s ex paid was for the cake. The grooms parents in both cases have a similiar amount to them. the kids paid the rest. And ironically it was me who took the money out of my 401k to pay our share.

We did not owe an explanation to his ex about what we paid, she didn’t owe us an explanation. That was between us and the kids, and her and the kids. If she had suggested we pony up more we would have said no. We would not have gone to her about her contribution, those communications were all through our daughters. They are the one who have a relationship with her. We don’t have a bad relationship with her but that part wasn’t our place.

If you feel you have it and feel generous then be generous with your daughter. That contribution has nothing to do with your ex. Your daughter will know what’s what, and she can decide how she feels about that. Even though you might have funded the ex’s accounts, it became her money to say what she wants to do with. That’s not controlling.

For what it’s worth, I would probably not be collaborating with her on anything. You don’t have a relationship with her anymore, she is a separate household with her own financial sovereignty. And you should have separate relationships with your kids. That doesn’t mean that you and your ex are not going to be at events together but your children are raised now.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:28 PM, Sunday, March 24th]

I appreciate all the responses. Bigger I don’t disagree with you on the costs of weddings. I did float the option of them having a small wedding and I would give them some cash. Turned down, and the cost of the wedding isn’t going to go down at this point.

I really don’t know exactly how much she has, but during Covid she reached out and asked for financial advice, and I told her to basically follow the advice of our planner who we both used. She didn’t. She really isn’t irresponsible with money, in fact it’s almost the opposite. She spends virtually nothing. Her condo is not great. She drives a cheap car, and doesn’t travel. She just is a very nervous investor. If she could she would just put everything in a passbook savings account at 1.3% interest, but even she knows that’s stupid. I’m less risk adverse and it has paid off.

I agree that it is her money and she has final say. But if you agree to split, you split. I think my issue about the control is she felt she lost on the girlfriend thing, so is looking for a win. Not healthy, but just reality. She is very jealous of my girlfriend. Looks wise my girlfriend though the same age, is much thinner and better put together than her as she let herself go. We are also living the life she thought we would be living with travel, clubs, friends. It’s not rational after what she did, but as I expressed before, she felt like she did something stupid for a short time, while I made a thought out calculated decision.

I think at this point since I agreed to pay 50% of the overruns, I will stick to that. They between the rest of them can figure out how to get the remaining 50% or make cuts. Maybe a bake sale😎

Yep, only way to stay sane is to detach from the problem. Let your daughter take it up with her. Sounds like she is conservative though so she really might not feel comfortable spending more.

My husbands ex wife has been the bane of my existence for almost our entire marriage. She agreed to pay half of college and then didn’t and we paid the lions share. So I learned she isn’t worth the aggravation. We do what we want and leave her to do what she wants, and since the whole college debacle, we just agree to dollar amounts with the kids and leave her to do whatever she is going to do. It’s gotten to where we don’t even want to know.

The only way to stay out of a power struggle is to not participate. The peace is worth it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:22 PM, Sunday, March 24th]

Detach detach detach!! Your ex budgeted a certain amount for the wedding and was prepared to pay that. The fact that costs have increased and you have the money to pay more, and are prepared to pay more is great (for your daughter), but it's not her (or your) responsibility to sign a blank cheque for 50% of an unlimited amount, particularly if she is on a fixed budget. Her finances and the way she manages or invests her money are her business and should not be your concern anymore (and vice versa). No one wins if you attempt to relitigate it all years later.

My advice is to stop dealing with your ex on this if you can. Offer (to your daughter) to pay 50% of the new costs if that is what you're comfortable with. Your ex can either come up with the other half or she wont. Your daughter and her finance can then decide whether the additional expenses are actually necessary or if the money can be made up in the budget elsewhere. That is normal for someone planning a wedding. I'm not sure what your circles are like, but I can tell you my experience, it is certainly atypical to have parents foot the entire bill of a modern wedding (which can cost the same as a down-payment of a house in some cases!). Oftentimes, if parents are contributing at all, they will advise the children of the dollar amount they are prepared to offer and let the couple budget accordingly. You have both, already, been incredibly generous.

You're right that your ex is probably feeling insecure about the wedding and having to be in the same room as you and your new partner, and perhaps having to publicly face up in front of family and friends that she is likely the reason that your daughter's family is not in tact. Weddings tend to bring up a lot of heightened emotions in normal circumstances - this is not that. I think you are likely correct that she is probably digging with you in order to get a "win" - don't play the game. She is likely looking for a reason to justify her victim feelings, and the more you engage with her, the more likely she is to be successful in this. She is responsible for her own emotions here.

FYI I was once in a similar situation as your daughter (definitely not the same - I know you are not the one that cheated). I knew that my wedding was going to be the first time my mom and my dad's new partner (his AP btw) would be in the same room, and if I'm honest, I put off getting married for years and years because of my own avoidant stress surrounding it. The idea of getting married at all and saying vows given what happened with my parents, brought up a lot of feelings for me that I had apparently not dealt with when the separated originally. I'm so grateful that my parents were able to be mature about things and put their (very real) issues with one another aside for the purposes of the wedding. I wish I could say the same about my dad's partner who clearly was not super comfortable with the idea of being the OW in front of a room of people she mostly didn't know, and many of whom had my mom's back) - she drank too much, picked a fight with my dad about how 'she' was essentially ignored as part of the wedding and speeches (I"m not really sure what she expected - although I've always been civil with her - she's never been a large part of my life), and apparently stormed out early (my dad stayed). She then skipped the brunch the next morning.

Your ex budgeted a certain amount for the wedding and was prepared to pay that. The fact that costs have increased and you have the money to pay more, and are prepared to pay more is great (for your daughter), but it's not her (or your) responsibility to sign a blank cheque for 50% of an unlimited amount, particularly if she is on a fixed budget

I probably should have been clearer in my original post. We both knew about the increased costs and after they were presented we both agreed. It was after the fact and after "she thought about it" that the idea that I should pay came up. She is hanging her hat on the fact the words I will pay the increased costs never came out of her mouth. However, we agreed to split and to me when she agreed it was implicit that she would be responsible for half of those costs. The thing is, even though I don’t know exactly what she has, I know what she got in the divorce and these costs, though large, are still small in the relation to what she has.

Also, we are not footing 100% of the bill. The rehearsal dinner, brunch, and transportation costs are being done by the in laws.

You're right that your ex is probably feeling insecure about the wedding and having to be in the same room as you and your new partner, and perhaps having to publicly face up in front of family and friends that she is likely the reason that your daughter's family is not in tact.

I think this is spot on. Everyone knows about what she did, and I think she still feels humiliated by this. She lived for these kinds of events. Kids birthdays, proms, graduations etc. Now the biggest one is here and her dreams of a perfect wedding is shot. I also think in the back of her mind she felt if she kept my girlfriend away, the wedding would provide a rom com moment where I realized how much better things would be if the family was again reunited and we could waltz off into the sunset.

I did tell my daughter my plan of paying only half of the increase and she said she was going to work it out, and thanked me.

WWTL,

On the topic of this thread, I think you handled the situation appropriately - both with your GF's presence and scope of activities at your daughter's wedding as well as funding split with your xWW for the cost overage.

Zooming out, I've only been on SI a short while but you were one of the few SIers whose every thread and most posts I pored into. Thank you for sharing what probably is the most painful and consequential life experience of yours with others on this site. Even with a thick layer of anonymity, it takes a lot of guts to divulge your private pain and the types of meaty decisions any BS is forced to confront in the aftermath of discovery of their WS' betrayal.

Having read a whole bunch of SIers' stories, I feel angry at most of the WSes for their cheating. I have outright hatred and disdain for the worst of the worst. But for your xWW and a few others, I feel more sadness than anger. To be sure, I feel angry for you, but your xWW just cuts a sorry figure.

Here you have a SAH wife and mom who had a loving, successful husband who was a great provider as well as an engaged parent. She did all the hard work to raise great kids and a comfortable and fun retired life with her husband was just around the corner, starting with a bucket list type cruise and a dream house.

And she threw it all away for a validation fling with a Dollar Store Don Juan.

WWTL,

If I recall correctly, don't you have 2 daughters? Is the other daughter still single? Does the other daughter expect an equal budget when she gets married that her sister received? I wonder if your XW is doing this to raise the stakes with your other daughter? Basically, is she trying to set a precedent? As the father of 2 daughters myself, my condolences... thankfully my oldest just turned 20 so I have a few more years.

On a side note WWTL, I've gained a lot from reading your posts and your history, further, you always give solid advice to betrayeds. I've been meaning to ask this but never wanted to threadjack another posters thread...since you've posted this thread, I feel less guilty about this threadjacking, if that makes sense... Ok, so here's my question(s):

Does your XW know you post on here after all these years? I know the advice is to keep SI a safe place but since it's been several years (11+?) since DDay and 6-7 years from divorce, I always wondered if you ever showed your XW about this place to maybe help her understand your feelings and maybe, get help for herself in the wayward section. Also, do your daughters know of your posting here? I believe, after they initially hesitated, they rallied around your XW and blamed you for the divorce, for not forgiving your XW and getting over it... I've wondered if after reading your story if they could gain insight into your thoughts and feelings. Again, as a father of daughters, I understand that some subjects are incredibly difficult, if not prohibitively so, to discuss with your daughters...

Sorry if I overreached or offended you in these questions

Here you have a SAH wife and mom who had a loving, successful husband who was a great provider as well as an engaged parent. She did all the hard work to raise great kids and a comfortable and fun retired life with her husband was just around the corner, starting with a bucket list type cruise and a dream house.

And she threw it all away for a validation fling with a Dollar Store Don Juan. sad

I certainly wasn’t perfect, but we did make a good team. Her strengths complimented my flaws, as I did with her. I think part of her issues now is she knows how stupid she was. She lost it all for nothing. The AP was a predator who targeted women like her, and she fell for it. I think she feels like the person who transfers all their money to the Nigerian prince who scams old people. Like WTF was I thinking? How could I have been so stupid? I also think that the whole wedding thing is bringing those feeling up. She feels my girlfriend is living the life she should be been living. We travel, go out to shows, spend quality time together. All the things we planned for. That’s probably going to get worse as I am now planning the trip we skipped for our 25th anniversary, and the one she tried to plan for our 30th. Not the same itinerary as that would be cruel, but a trip with the same magnitude.

Nuke, no problem with the questions. I’m pretty much an open book. I don’t know for sure if she reads here. My guess is probably on occasion. She did know about it and actually encouraged me to post early on. I think she read enough positive stories she thought might help her. As for my kids, I doubt it.

If I recall correctly, don't you have 2 daughters? Is the other daughter still single? Does the other daughter expect an equal budget when she gets married that her sister received? I wonder if your XW is doing this to raise the stakes with your other daughter? Basically, is she trying to set a precedent?

I do have two. The other is just dating around. If and when my other daughter gets married I would probably throw the same kind of wedding. My EX is for sure not trying to raise the stakes. The costs for me, as bigger stated are probably stupid, but well within my means. I will just be more clear when it happens what my expectations are from her financially. The over runs are not being pushed by her. More of what will make the event better.

I will tell you it’s a one time deal. If the marriage doesn’t work, my obligation for a second marriage is the cost of an Uber to a courthouse.

WWTL,

I think part of her issues now is she knows how stupid she was. She lost it all for nothing.

A former neighbor of mine liked to bet on sports. He wasn't a degenerate but used to run the neighborhood March Madness brackets and Super Bowl betting games (small dollar stuff mostly for fun). A few years ago, he went to Vegas for March Madness for his college reunion. Apparently my neighbor had a frenemy who he detested. The frenemy got lucky with a big parlay and my neighbor's wagers busted. He couldn't stand losing to that guy, so my neighbor kept making one moonshot bet after another, with no luck. By the end of the night, my neighbor had maxed out his credit cards and set fire to a big chunk of his savings as well. When the other guy celebrated by buying drinks for everyone, my neighbor lost it. He sucker punched the frenemy and there was a melee. Fists and feet were flying and a hostess/drinks girl and another casino guest got seriously hurt. My neighbor ended up in jail and got mug shotted. When the dust settled, he had lost his job and his wife divorced him. It was all so pointless but devastating not just to himself but his wife and kids as well.

Your xWW's A was just as pointless and probably more destructive than my former neighbor's Vegas gambling bender. My neighbor had the choice to not double down on his initial losing wager, just like your xWW had the choice to cutoff the A after the first tryst. Both chose poorly. My former neighbor needlessly destroyed his marriage and his wife and kids' wellbeing. In your case, your xWW's marital Molotov cocktail hurt not only herself, but it ended up permanently disfiguring your life and burned your daughters as well.

I do hope you have a fun trip with your GF. God knows you more than earned it!

The AP was a predator who targeted women like her, and she fell for it.

Did that POS face any consequences professionally? Tradesmen depend on reputation and references.

[This message edited by Ragn3rK1n at 5:35 AM, Wednesday, March 27th]

Did that POS face any consequences professionally? Tradesmen depend on reputation and references.

It was known what he was doing as he prided himself for screwing other married women prior to my EX. He got work as he was a good electrician and reliable. Kind of screwed up, but he did have some good ideas about accent lighting for art and around cabinets. After I found out, I made my EX call the GC to remove them, and to have him fired. She was mortified as the GC knew exactly why.

He did receive a big consequence, but really not from me. He wanted me to bankroll his new business of renovating houses. I didn’t, and that was why he went scorched earth on her. His other conquests were just about the challenge of getting married women to cheat. With us it was personal. He did start the business with money from family and friends and it tanked. His friends, some of whom were rough guys were pissed. He ended up leaving the area so he didn’t get the crap beat out of him, so in that way there was some justice.

Thanks for the answers WWTL.

While I know this is an anonymous website, I've always wondered about the effects to a wayward spouse reading posts where for all practical purposes they were the bad guy/villain in the thread. Does it help or hurt them to see everything in such stark black and white written down for the world to see... even if it's anonymous? Does it change them, in any way? Very rarely do we hear of accounts of the affects, in fact I can only think of one instance... while I won't name names but the BH is considered a legend around here and his WW would later post here as well, and when she read his thread, well, the results were dramatic. I hope they are still doing as best they can now, it's been several years since either one posted. Does anyone know of any other cases where the wayward read the betrayed thread's and what were the results? Other than being a jerk to use it in the divorce-- which usually causes the betrayed to go silent on here.

On a side-note WWTL, I hope for a wonderful and great wedding day for your daughter. Please post how it went, otherwise I will wonder and only imagine how it goes down... usually I imagine worst case scenarios-- your WW hires and brings a 20-something boytoy to the wedding in an attempt to make you jealous, she fails, she then proceeds to get rip-roaring drunk and during your eloquent and tear inducing toast to the new couple wishing them a lifetime of happiness and fulfillment, your WW has a complete crying, raging meltdown on the dance floor which ultimately ends in her drunkenly falling through the uncut wedding cake in a stupor completely ruining the night.

So, please, let us know how it goes? And I sincerely hope for a drama-free wedding for your daughter.

Nuke, i don’t think her reading would have changed to direction of what happened after the affair. She was extremely remorseful and was doing everything and anything to save the marriage. She didn’t need to read to get insights into my thinking. I was very direct about it.

Now had she read our story before it happened that might have changed things. First is that most cheaters eventually get caught. Even more importantly I think early on, and even into our reconciliation period she believed that if you had a good long marriage things would work out. Her father was an alcoholic and came very close to getting divorced. He stopped drinking, and after that the marriage became a really good one. In her head, if two people really loved each other you could get through anything. She knew she fu*ked up, but because it was so short, and she really had no strong feelings for him, she felt forgiveness would come with hard work. Reading the story now she woukd have realized things often don’t. That might have stopped her before it began. Risk reward. She didn’t think the risk was divorce.

As to the wedding, I’m not at all concerned. She has always put family first and she won’t do anything to tarnish the day for my daughter.